Derek Ferguson's comments at a Show Racism the Red Card event today

[Buffalo Bill]

It honestly gives me no pleasure whatsoever to say this but.................... yes.

 

However to look on the bright side, you are also the same race as Darwin, Attenborough, Dawkins, Hawkins, Da Vinci, Beathoven, Homer and Sir Walter Scott if that helps?

 

 

The guy from The Darkness?

 

 

**** that sh**.

[Victorian]

Sorted that for thee.

 

 

Spew is the colour...

you aren't even the same species. the vet thread in the shed would be better for your growlings.

[Guest Bilel Mohsni]

From now on, when I hear Hearts fans singing "I'd even dig the Channel Tunnel" I will automatically think of you.

 

But to cut to the chase, it doesn't matter about the points you've highlighted in black.

 

 

I am honoured that I will be in your thoughts... If a little disappointed that your response to scientific understanding is limited to laughing smilies... Och weell, I will adjust my expectation levels accordingly in future.

 

The bits in black matter in science, so as that is something much bigger and more important than a legal definition born out of well meaning ignorance to scientific fact by a judge I will stick with it thanks mate.

[Therapist]

I am honoured that I will be in your thoughts... If a little disappointed that your response to scientific understanding is limited to laughing smilies... Och weell, I will adjust my expectation levels accordingly in future.

 

The bits in black matter in science, so as that is something much bigger and more important than a legal definition born out of well meaning ignorance to scientific fact by a judge I will stick with it thanks mate.

 

Volume of words is no substitute for clarity. I'd recommend that motto to you in future.

 

Anyway, I shall bid you good night.

[Guest Bilel Mohsni]

The guy from The Darkness?

 

 

**** that sh**.

 

 

Ah now I think his problem may be more down to his parents being of TOO similar a genetic match... If you catch my drift!

 

I included Dawkins, Attenborough and Scott for you as they are authors I hold in high regard, in light of your profession I thought they might soften the blow of sharing genes with McGinlay... just, maybe but it would stil be a close one, I'd imagine.

[Dot Cotton]

Volume of words is no substitute for clarity. I'd recommend that motto to you in future.

 

Anyway, I shall bid you good night.

 

 

Not like you to walk away from a debate.

[Guest Bilel Mohsni]

Volume of words is no substitute for clarity. I'd recommend that motto to you in future.

 

Anyway, I shall bid you good night.

 

 

Volume of words may not be a substitute for clarity but likewise having the last word or refusing to back down is no substitute for being right.

 

Indeed though, good night sir... It's been emotional!

[topcat]

If you keep digging, you'll soon be in Australia. Look, I'm feeling kind tonight and have advised you to look up the relevant court case that proves the English and Scots are different races.

 

Under which legal system?

[GlasgowJambo]

Is the point that the OP is making not that the abuse and level of banana throwing at Parkhead was far greater than what happened at Tynecastle (which it was) but Ferguson chose not to mention it ?

 

Sorry if I've picked it up wrong.

 

 

 

Absolutely correct Le Chat. Mr Rudi went off at a rather ridiculous tangent and some others appeared to follow - of course racism is a vile thing (why else would i have arranged for 90 kids to go to such an event one wonders???) and i am in no way point scoring.

 

What i am saying is that Ferguson is a complete hypocrite, and very selective in his use of facts.

 

I had never heard of this incident before. I was 7 years old when it took place.

 

I have been disgsuted time and again by songs sung at Hearts games (mostly at away matches) and have been criticised as "overly-PC" on here for raising that as an issue, but now i'm condoning racism?

 

Rudi - you are braindead.

[Hans von Luck]

Oh sorry,I didn't realise I was in the presence of some kind Of HMFC royalty,your right.

 

Because rangers were of course founded on their current beliefs,what I would suggest if I may dare is that you in fact check their,and for that matter the tics,history,sure you will find out where all this bigotry came from,but hey,one so knowledgeable as you will know this already.

 

Anyway,you did try and defend it by trying to discredit the guy who allegedly said it,thus deflecting the point he was making.

 

If you actually knew your history you will find out that the first known act of sectarian fighting at a football matchin Scotland was after a Heart of Midlothian v Hibernians derby.

[GlasgowJambo]

It's amazing how time flies when someone old enough to be a teacher (I assume) is too young to remember a particularly notorious instance of racism.

 

You can be a teacher at 22 years of age. The incident occurred in 1988.

 

You do the math.

[Hans von Luck]

It was 24 years ago FFS. Get over it, and stop the self flaggelation.

Mind you Mark Walters was "one of them" wasnt he ?

[pablo]

The Ferguson's would be racist if they were not committed to sectarianism.

 

What happened to Walters showed up this country for what it is occasionally.........uncouth, insular, isolated and outdated.

 

It wasn't Dixie land or South African Apartheid, it was just embarrassing.

[GlasgowJambo]

Tell you what mate,for me you have lit the torch paper,you call the hun support vile and all that yet you seem to defend the Hearts fans because it happened some where else,and your a teacher,what a fecking joke you are.

 

Ever,and I mean every club has it's arseholes who blurt out racist and biggoted abuse,we are no different from rangers in that department it's just that pound for pound there are more of them,percentage wise probably the same.

 

 

Please highlight where I have defended the Hearts fans who acted in that manner. You may be some time.

[Getintaethem]

If somebody threw a few banana's at me it wouldn't bother me in the slightest. Why is it all right to call Tony Mombray "Monkey heid" but unacceptable to mention monkeys when a black player is involved? Mark Walters answered in the best way he could, he tore us a new one, ripped us to shreds, he was outstanding. He was on a par with McCann in the 4-3 league cup final. I doubt very much that he loses sleep over the incident.

 

Yes I was there, no I never threw any banana's but only because the fruit shop had sold out. My mate threw a satsuma as that was all they had left. We were 16, we laughed, we saw it for what it was, abit of banter.

 

If Mark Waters was offended then I would apologies to his face. But whats next? Should we all go round to Frank McGarveys house and apologies to his wife for implying that she was easy? Should we send Davie Dodds a letter explaining that we didn't really think he was ugly? Shall we compensate Neil lennon for mentioning he had ginger hair? (..and I'm not even going to start on Eddie May!).

 

What's done is done, leave it in the past where it belongs and lets give this "I'm disgusted cos I'm a better man than you" sh1t a rest.

[Hans von Luck]

Mind you Mark Walters was "one of them" wasnt he ?

 

The burning question is this guy Rudi "wan of them" too.

[GlasgowJambo]

As you were so angered by his comments I take it you challenged him on the spot.

 

 

I decided that in front of the aforementioned 90 11-year-olds, 3 members of staff, and umpteen parents, at the start of a 90-minute workshop that that might not quite be the most appropriate course of action.

 

I also decided that Hearts supporters may be interested to hear what went on.

 

Let's say an article is run in a newspaper stating that there are sectarian songs sung at football matches in Scotland, and mentions only Hearts. This is a problem at Hearts matches. But would you not also consider that just a teeny, tiny bit unfair and selective in the use of facts? I think you would, and would soon be pointing to Ibrox, Parkhead etc.

 

That, in a nutshell was my point. I hope i've cleared that right up for you.

[david mcgee]

Seem to remember Rangers signing a Danish player not long after this. ( was it Jan Bartram)

When he came to Tynecastle some wide-o flung a packet of bacon at him.

 

I suppose its like a Scottish player signing for Real Madrid and getting pelted with MacSweens Haggis by the opposition.

( very imature and inexcusable but somewhat funny, unlike the MW abuse)

[geddy]

Yup. It happened.

We have some scumbags who follow us.

 

What pissed me of was the two faced racist bar stewards who pointedout our less thn ntelligent fans.

I name Archie Macpherson.

The week before our shame, the Celtic fans did the same. Macpherson laughed at it, and said "I wonder where they came from". The same media guy who slaughtered Hearts fans.

I have more respect (and I have NONE) for those who threw the bananas than Macpherson who pointed out racism where it suited him. Two faced bigotted arsehole.....

[freddiemac]

i remember the banana incident well,it first happened at the celtic v rangers match a couple of weeks previous and hearts fans decided to mimic the celtic fans . this was the only incident hearts fans were really involved in as far as coloured players were concerned , had walters played with any normal team ,then there would not have been any abuse .

what the media at the time conveniently ignored was that at an ibrox friendly at the start of that season (before walters signed),rangers got a lesson from monaco who included about 3 coloured players . apparantly the abuse and monkey chants every time one of them was on the ball was disgusting.

no other supporters in scotland would have behaved towards coloured players in a friendly and maybe ferguson was injured in that game and saw and heard nothing!

[Le Chat]

Seem to remember Rangers signing a Danish player not long after this. ( was it Jan Bartram)

When he came to Tynecastle some wide-o flung a packet of bacon at him.

 

 

 

[Thundercats Are Go]

I decided that in front of the aforementioned 90 11-year-olds, 3 members of staff, and umpteen parents, at the start of a 90-minute workshop that that might not quite be the most appropriate course of action.

 

I also decided that Hearts supporters may be interested to hear what went on.

 

Let's say an article is run in a newspaper stating that there are sectarian songs sung at football matches in Scotland, and mentions only Hearts. This is a problem at Hearts matches. But would you not also consider that just a teeny, tiny bit unfair and selective in the use of facts? I think you would, and would soon be pointing to Ibrox, Parkhead etc.

 

That, in a nutshell was my point. I hope i've cleared that right up for you.

 

Was there no opportunity to have a quiet word with him at all?

[geddy]

We have some idiots. However we are nowhere near the ignorant bigotted garbage that comes from the old firm.

The media who want to try and prove their righteousness by having a go at us, makes themselves worse than our eejits. Our eejits are EEJITS. They try to hide their bigotry by blaming others, knowing what they are doing. They are a bigger disgrace to our country than the stupid people,

[Denny Crane]

If somebody threw a few banana's at me it wouldn't bother me in the slightest. Why is it all right to call Tony Mombray "Monkey heid" but unacceptable to mention monkeys when a black player is involved? Mark Walters answered in the best way he could, he tore us a new one, ripped us to shreds, he was outstanding. He was on a par with McCann in the 4-3 league cup final. I doubt very much that he loses sleep over the incident.

 

Yes I was there, no I never threw any banana's but only because the fruit shop had sold out. My mate threw a satsuma as that was all they had left. We were 16, we laughed, we saw it for what it was, abit of banter.

 

If Mark Waters was offended then I would apologies to his face. But whats next? Should we all go round to Frank McGarveys house and apologies to his wife for implying that she was easy? Should we send Davie Dodds a letter explaining that we didn't really think he was ugly? Shall we compensate Neil lennon for mentioning he had ginger hair? (..and I'm not even going to start on Eddie May!).

 

What's done is done, leave it in the past where it belongs and lets give this "I'm disgusted cos I'm a better man than you" sh1t a rest.

 

Lovely broom you have there. Mind, that bump underneath your carpet is starting to show.

[siegementality]

Absolutely correct Le Chat. Mr Rudi went off at a rather ridiculous tangent and some others appeared to follow - of course racism is a vile thing (why else would i have arranged for 90 kids to go to such an event one wonders???) and i am in no way point scoring.

 

What i am saying is that Ferguson is a complete hypocrite, and very selective in his use of facts.

 

I had never heard of this incident before. I was 7 years old when it took place.

 

I have been disgsuted time and again by songs sung at Hearts games (mostly at away matches) and have been criticised as "overly-PC" on here for raising that as an issue, but now i'm condoning racism?

 

Rudi - you are braindead.

 

Question:If you had never heard of the Tynecastle incident, being only seven at the time, how exactly did you hear about the Smeltic incident, given that you would have been seven at that time too?

[IMA MAROON]

no other supporters in scotland would have behaved towards coloured players in a friendly and maybe ferguson was injured in that game and saw and heard nothing!

 

I'm sure there was a dark skinned guy playing for Portugal against Scotland in the under-16's World Cup Semi-final at Tynecastle that was given the same treatment.

[Jam Tarts 1874]

I remember a number of Hearts fans taking inflatable bananas along to a league cup semi with Rangers. Walters pretty much single-handedly beat us 3-0. What goes around comes around.

 

I hate racists and all those who defend them.

[I.J]

What is this thread actually about?

 

I'm lost.

[Sydney]

I was at a Show Racism the Red Card event with pupils from my school this afternoon, and heard some comments from Derek Ferguson who was on the panel which really angered me.

 

Basically Ferguson began a story about how he had been friends with Mark Walters at Rangers and continued that he had witnessed racist abuse from a set of rival fans in the form of chants and bananas being thrown. He descibed how he appealed to the police for something to be done, all the while he did not mention which fans until he then said without warning that it was the Hearts fans. He said Hearts subsequently banned several fans.

 

I was unaware of this incident, so although shocked I was also angered that he chose not to mention that it had happened at Celtic Park, and that in fact Rangers banned several fans for perceived racist abuse directed at Walters.

 

Ferguson claimed that Walters suffered racist abuse at "every away ground", but only specifically mentioned one club - Hearts - to 90 impressionable 11-year-olds. The same club he was happy to sign for Hearts 2 years later and no doubt pocket a massive signing on fee. The same player who is by his own admission "Rangers through and through", a supporter of one of Britain's most vile football clubs.

 

Mickey Weir was also there, as was Stevie Kirk. But those are stories for another day!

 

Our support was a disgrace that day. It should never be forgotten. Look for the game on youtube if you can though - Walters was immense and tore shuggy burns a new hole all afternoon.

[The Treasurer]

Since he said he was not aware of the incident how did you expect him to challenge him "on the spot". After hearing what Ferguson had to say I assume he went away and done some research on the incident.

 

 

If he was not aware of the incident how could he be angered by the comments.

For all he knew, DF could and probably was telling it exactly as it was.

He could at least have asked him to explain what incident he was referring to rather wait unti he got home and vent his anger via a keyboard.

[gorgie rd eh11]

What is this thread actually about?

 

I'm lost.

 

 

 

I thought it was about Hearts always being held up as the devil whenever racism in scottish football is mentioned, but it seems to be more about people competing to get on the biggest high horse and prove they are the most anti racist.

[I.J]

I thought it was about Hearts always being held up as the devil whenever racism in scottish football is mentioned, but it seems to be more about people competing to get on the biggest high horse and prove they are the most anti racist.

 

Cool. That's what I thought.

[johnjl]

I thought it was about Hearts always being held up as the devil whenever racism in scottish football is mentioned, but it seems to be more about people competing to get on the biggest high horse and prove they are the most anti racist.

 

 

 

 

 

 

this

 

many posters on here have said how disgusted they were at this incident. on that day i was sitting on the benches then went round to behind the goals to chat to my uncles at half time. i can`t remember hearing anyone complain about the racist chants and fruit throwing.

why did none of these disgusted people actually come out and say anything at the time.

i`m not buying this silent majority rubbish. those who stood by and did nothing are just as culpable as everyone else.

everyone wants to act the innocent now.

[SE16 3LN]

Hearts were the first club to sign up to the kick it out campaign in the early 80's and walked the walk by banning fans who behaved in a racist manner.

 

Celtic, Rangers, Hibs and othes didn't sign up because they denied having a problem and it was anothe 15 years before these clubs accepted that they did. For Hearts to be singled out as having racist fans when in fact they were the ones at the forefront of the campaign to kick it out is typical of the way Scottish football is run.

 

Personally I'm proud that Hearts have been an inclusive club since there inception and find it hilarious that Ferguson totally missed the point about what happened to Mark Walters at Tynecastle and the subsequent action taken by Hearts.

[Guest C00l K1d]

First, let me say I do not condone racist abuse. Having said that, I should point out;

 

1. Walters was one of the most despicable cheats I've ever had the misfortune to witness. He dived all over the shop and often used his colour to make out he was somehow a victim.

 

2. At the time the incident happened, calling someone a ***** ******* was not uncommon. One has to view the incident in the context of the times.

 

3. Get a grip and get off the easily offended bus. It was ages ago, so who really cares?

 

4. Walters also got hit by a bag of chips that day.

@Your 4 points.

I don't think any one of them is a valid reason for someone to receive pelters for their colour imo.

Fair enough give him all your cheating bassas and what not but just leave the colour out because it just attracts negative attention and trouble.

I feel the same now about the union jacks and stuff. I know we're british but just leave it out at football because it just gives people ammunition to call us mini rangers etc.

[johnjl]

You can be a teacher at 22 years of age. The incident occurred in 1988.

 

You do the math.

 

 

 

 

 

 

as an american why do you support hearts anyways. what is math? i absolutely despise the americanisation of the english language. as a teacher you should know better.

[AVB1874]

I thought it was quite funny, just like the pope booing but hey ho, that's just me..........

[Guest Dipped Flake]

I think a lot of folk who are up in arms about the Hearts support that day are using present day values. When the incident happened, most fans thought it was a huge laugh and were ignorant about the horrors of racism. In the present day, these same supporters would be appalled and disgusted to see the same actions. I don't see the point of going over this old ground as much has changed in the last few decades. We should be more concerned about the continued bigottry in our support

[Guest Atticus]

I think that teh frowing of teh ananas was is bad.

 

I CAN HAZ CHEESEBURGA NOW??

 

Good read this thread. If I was there that day I would have been up the back either a) shaking with rage or b ) throwing coffee at the banana throwers.

 

You old guys have got us this rep, please keep that in mind next time you want to cry about a flag or a song, YOU BANANA THROWING HEATHENS.

[Thundercats Are Go]

this

 

many posters on here have said how disgusted they were at this incident. on that day i was sitting on the benches then went round to behind the goals to chat to my uncles at half time. i can`t remember hearing anyone complain about the racist chants and fruit throwing.

why did none of these disgusted people actually come out and say anything at the time.

i`m not buying this silent majority rubbish. those who stood by and did nothing are just as culpable as everyone else.

everyone wants to act the innocent now.

 

These people are worse than the perpetrators in fact. the people throwing the bananas obviously felt they were entitled to do so as they were racist. the whiter than white squad who were offended and knew it was wrong but did nothing are just as guilty if not more so for allowing it to happen.

 

mod edit

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

Seem to remember Rangers signing a Danish player not long after this. ( was it Jan Bartram)

When he came to Tynecastle some wide-o flung a packet of bacon at him.

 

LOL, that's genius

[Placid Casual]

We have some idiots. However we are nowhere near the ignorant bigotted garbage that comes from the old firm.

The media who want to try and prove their righteousness by having a go at us, makes themselves worse than our eejits. Our eejits are EEJITS. They try to hide their bigotry by blaming others, knowing what they are doing. They are a bigger disgrace to our country than the stupid people,

 

Unfortunately, we're much closer than most Hearts fans would like.

 

As pointed out by another poster, there's just more of them than there is of us - percentage wise we are probably around the same mark. I think that anybody that thinks otherwise are just kidding themselves.

[Placid Casual]

this

 

many posters on here have said how disgusted they were at this incident. on that day i was sitting on the benches then went round to behind the goals to chat to my uncles at half time. i can`t remember hearing anyone complain about the racist chants and fruit throwing.

why did none of these disgusted people actually come out and say anything at the time.

i`m not buying this silent majority rubbish. those who stood by and did nothing are just as culpable as everyone else.

everyone wants to act the innocent now.

 

What an absolute crock of ****.

 

Get a grip.

[johnjl]

Unfortunately, we're much closer than most Hearts fans would like.

 

As pointed out by another poster, there's just more of them than there is of us - percentage wise we are probably around the same mark. I think that anybody that thinks otherwise are just kidding themselves.

 

 

 

 

where did you arrive at this "percentage wise we are probably around the same mark" was there a mori poll conducted? have you been reasearching this topic for long or did you just decide to say this without any factual knowledge to back it up?

[The Treasurer]

You old guys have got us this rep, please keep that in mind next time you want to cry about a flag or a song, YOU BANANA THROWING HEATHENS.

 

 

But the thing is these "old guys" as you put it have moved on and realised that this sort of behaviour is unacceptable.

[johnjl]

What an absolute crock of ****.

 

Get a grip.

 

 

 

 

 

 

racism is a crime. what other crime would it be ok to sit back and watch people comitt murder? rape? housebreaking perhaps?

[Guest Bilel Mohsni]

Unfortunately, we're much closer than most Hearts fans would like.

 

As pointed out by another poster, there's just more of them than there is of us - percentage wise we are probably around the same mark. I think that anybody that thinks otherwise are just kidding themselves.

 

 

No, i don't agree, there are incidents when we travel abroad with hearts and there are incidents at away games but percentage wise, i think that both halves of the Old Firm are away out in front.

 

That is not to say we do not have a problem obviously but i just do not see us doing a Manchester or Seville... Even relatively in terms of percentage. Rangers and Celtic attract a certain kind of person, we have them too but not in the same proportions man for man.

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

Very relevant to this thread:

 

http://news.scotsman.com/tacklingracisminscotland/A-black-day-for-Scots.3628273.jp

[Placid Casual]

where did you arrive at this "percentage wise we are probably around the same mark" was there a mori poll conducted? have you been reasearching this topic for long or did you just decide to say this without any factual knowledge to back it up?

 

This may come as a shock to you, but most Celtic and Rangers fans are good people.

 

My point is that all clubs have their ar5eh0les. Even ours.

[Placid Casual]

racism is a crime. what other crime would it be ok to sit back and watch people comitt murder? rape? housebreaking perhaps?

 

Like I said, get a grip.