Derek Ferguson's comments at a Show Racism the Red Card event today

[Therapist]

There certainly is a difference, you only need to ask the staff at any A and E in Scotland to realise that... Check out the incidents after an Old Firm game and then compare that with after a Scotland game.

 

Dunno about the anti-English 'bile' though, as I never participate in that sort of thing myself.

 

Sorry, you are correct, i never asked you anything twice... I asked the question twice but only once did I ask it of you... It is amazing how these little mistakes in diction and prose can lead to confusion, won't happen again old chap.

 

I love the sound of furious backpedaling.

[Thundercats Are Go]

http://www.cps.gov.uk/publications/prosecution/rrpbcrbook.html#_02

 

Racial group ? this means any group of people who are defined by reference to their race, colour, nationality (including citizenship) or ethnic or national origin. This could include Gypsies and Travellers, refugees, or asylum seekers or others from less visible minorities. There has been a legal ruling that Jews and Sikhs are included in the definition of racial group.

[Victorian]

brewing up nicely this one. the mods could sell tickets to view this thread. nice little earner... you know it makes sense.

 

[Thundercats Are Go]

There certainly is a difference, you only need to ask the staff at any A and E in Scotland to realise that... Check out the incidents after an Old Firm game and then compare that with after a Scotland game.

 

Dunno about the anti-English 'bile' though, as I never participate in that sort of thing myself.

 

Sorry, you are correct, i never asked you anything twice... I asked the question twice but only once did I ask it of you... It is amazing how these little mistakes in diction and prose can lead to confusion, won't happen again old chap.

 

 

the bile comment was not directed at you Mothy sorry if it seemed that way. I never actually saw the question the first time, but you can see above that in law nationality is covered.

[Guest Bilel Mohsni]

Yes.

 

So in the eyes of the law, if you've ever shouted or made an anti-English comment - and by your reaction I'm pretty sure you have - you are a racist.

 

 

No they are not, Scots and English are not different races, there are Scots and English people who are different races to each other, just as there are Scots who are different races to each other and there are English who are different races to each other but there are no 'Scots' and 'English' races.

 

I have never shouted 'anti-English comment'... Bewildering that you can sumise that I have done by me saying that I want their football to lose every game they play. As a result I am not even xenephobic, never mind racist. Sorry if that contradicts your assumptions, up there on you high horse but that is just the way it is I'm afraid.

[Therapist]

brewing up nicely this one. the mods could sell tickets to view this thread. nice little earner... you know it makes sense.

 

If people would do a bit of thinking and/or research before jumping in, nothing would be brewing.

 

Anyway, I'm off down the Winchester Club to meet Tel.....

[Guest Bilel Mohsni]

the bile comment was not directed at you Mothy sorry if it seemed that way. I never actually saw the question the first time, but you can see above that in law nationality is covered.

 

 

Sorry bud, no offence meant.

[Therapist]

No they are not, Scots and English are not different races, there are Scots and English people who are different races to each other, just as there are Scots who are different races to each other and there are English who are different races to each other but there are no 'Scots' and 'English' races.

 

:rofl: :rofl:

[Sherlock]

brewing up nicely this one. the mods could sell tickets to view this thread. nice little earner... you know it makes sense.

 

I was thinking more along the lines of Blakey... Ding, Ding, All Aboard.

[Therapist]

I was thinking more along the lines of Blakey... Ding, Ding, All Aboard.[/img]

 

Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeewwww.....I'll get you for this, Butler.

[Guest Bilel Mohsni]

I love the sound of furious backpedaling.

 

I prefer the sound of carefull frustrated typing myself.

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

No they are not, Scots and English are not different races, there are Scots and English people who are different races to each other, just as there are Scots who are different races to each other and there are English who are different races to each other but there are no 'Scots' and 'English' races.

 

Hmmm, time for me to exit this thread

[Thundercats Are Go]

Sorry bud, no offence meant.

 

 

None taken

[janie jones]

It's called attempting to put it in context.

 

It's called attempting to excuse it.

 

Like most of your posts I often hope they are a wind up but sadly the consistent tripe posted would indicate otherwise.

 

I was at the game, it was horrible and no "context" is required. For once just say it like it was - inexcusable, offensive and deeply shameful behaviour by our support.

[Old School]

DF was a qulaity player forus. A step ahead of the rest of the team at the time.

 

As for the abuse, yes it did happen that day against the huns. Also remember a certain game at the Piggery when Paul Elliot got a hell of a lot more abuse.

[Old School]

This coming from the very same Derek Ferguson who stood up and sang the sash at John Robertson's stag night at the Tartan Club.

I'm sure his missus would be well impressed.

[Thundercats Are Go]

It's called attempting to excuse it.

 

Like most of your posts I often hope they are a wind up but sadly the consistent tripe posted would indicate otherwise.

 

I was at the game, it was horrible and no "context" is required. For once just say it like it was - inexcusable, offensive and deeply shameful behaviour by our support.

 

I think he already stated it was wrong.

[Old School]

In the 85-86 season we dumped the Huns out the Scottish Cup third round. On fourth round weekend, the Huns played Chelsea on the Friday night at Greyskull. That night I was in the Chelsea end, top tier Broomloan and the Huns subjected Keith Jones to a tirade ofd racial abuse. Funny how Deeky chose not to mention this.

[Guest Bilel Mohsni]

 

Alternatively race can be defined (in the scientific definition) as...

 

 

 

A local geographic or global human population distinguished as a distinct group by geneticaly transmitted physical charachteristics.

 

Much like the red fox of Britain being the same species as the red fox of the USA despite their geographical seperation the same is scientificaly said of human race, despite the fact that we live in different (human defined) areas of the globe, the human caucasian is the same described as the same race due to it's common genetic ancestry and it's visible phenotype expressed in physical appearance.

 

Scottish caucasians are the same race as English caucasians, it's science, it might catch on one day but I doubt it in some places.

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

Alternatively race can be defined (in the scientific definition) as...

 

 

 

A local geographic or global human population distinguished as a distinct group by geneticaly transmitted physical charachteristics.

 

Much like the red fox of Britain being the same species as the red fox of the USA despite their geographical seperation the same is scientificaly said of human race, despite the fact that we live in different (human defined) areas of the globe, the human caucasian is the same described as the same race due to it's common genetic ancestry and it's visible phenotype expressed in physical appearance.

 

Scottish caucasians are the same race as English caucasians, it's science, it might catch on one day but I doubt it in some places.

 

 

Amazing what you learn on here

[The Old Tolbooth]

 

 

4. Walters also got hit by a bag of chips that day.

Did the chips have brown sauce on them, and if so is this deemed racist?

[Therapist]

Alternatively race can be defined (in the scientific definition) as...

 

 

 

A local geographic or global human population distinguished as a distinct group by geneticaly transmitted physical charachteristics.

 

Much like the red fox of Britain being the same species as the red fox of the USA despite their geographical seperation the same is scientificaly said of human race, despite the fact that we live in different (human defined) areas of the globe, the human caucasian is the same described as the same race due to it's common genetic ancestry and it's visible phenotype expressed in physical appearance.

 

Scottish caucasians are the same race as English caucasians, it's science, it might catch on one day but I doubt it in some places.

 

If you keep digging, you'll soon be in Australia. Look, I'm feeling kind tonight and have advised you to look up the relevant court case that proves the English and Scots are different races.

 

Do yourself a favour by looking it up, digesting it, then moving on to another thread.

[Thundercats Are Go]

Did the chips have brown sauce on them, and if so is this deemed racist?

 

 

It now mixed sauce, try to avoid the term brown, its not liked.

[Guest Bilel Mohsni]

Amazing what you learn on here

 

 

You're right it is amazing, i learned that in the eyes of the law the definition of race has been adapted to include nationality rather than just the scientific definition whereby a little known fad called 'genetics' is the method of choice.

 

I for one will be sticking with the scientific explanation though as laws are created by man and genetics is are decided by a power far older and more reliable, albeit described by man.

[The Old Tolbooth]

It now mixed sauce, try to avoid the term brown, its not liked.

That sounds messy

[MacDonald Jardine]

DF was a qulaity player forus. A step ahead of the rest of the team at the time.

 

As for the abuse, yes it did happen that day against the huns. Also remember a certain game at the Piggery when Paul Elliot got a hell of a lot more abuse.

 

What happened to Elliot was far worse. And John Colquhoun then got abused for trying to stop it.

 

I always thought Hearts were hard done by with the Walters thing.

His first away game was at Celtic Park and he was pelted with bananas. Archie McPherson made some comment about an "assortment of fruit" in a joky way.

The same thing happens at Tynecastle and all hell breaks loose.

[Guest Bilel Mohsni]

If you keep digging, you'll soon be in Australia. Look, I'm feeling kind tonight and have advised you to look up the relevant court case that proves the English and Scots are different races.

 

Do yourself a favour by looking it up, digesting it, then moving on to another thread.

 

 

As I have said the law that you refer to is not scientificaly correct, you can chose to describe yourself as a Scottish or English by means of this law if you so want, i will stick to the scientific definition that is dependent on genetics and universaly understood laws of geneology and genetic inheritence of racial pheno and genotypes.

 

Your offering of definition is from a law passed by human beings for ease of use in cases where the crime of xenephobia is seen as being as bad as racism in the eyes of the law, this is for nothing other than avoiding having the same law in a multitude of different forms to cover what is the same form of discrimination.

 

My definition is the scientific one whereby caucasians from England, Scotland, USA, wherever are the same race through the laws of genetics.

 

You definition was coined by men of a legal background and education whereas mine is the recognised one in the world of science where race and population have been studied and steadily understood over centuries of scientific study since darwin and his peers started us down the path of enlightenment... I will stick to the scientific definition if is all the same with you, it was merely described by men, not invented by us.

 

Oh but here...

 

 

Perhaps this will add weight to my argument, it really helped me take on your points when you posted something similar as a response earlier...

[Therapist]

You're right it is amazing, i learned that in the eyes of the law the definition of race has been adapted to include nationality rather than just the scientific definition whereby a little known fad called 'genetics' is the method of choice.

 

I for one will be sticking with the scientific explanation though as laws are created by man and genetics is are decided by a power far older and more reliable, albeit described by man.

 

Toys out the pram alert.

 

You need to learn how to take humiliation gracefully. Unfortunately I can't give you lessons on this one as I've never been rag-dolled.

[Guest Bilel Mohsni]

Toys out the pram alert.

 

You need to learn how to take humiliation gracefully. Unfortunately I can't give you lessons on this one as I've never been rag-dolled.

 

 

Oh I am quite sure you have never lost an argument, that much is patently obvious, regardless of the amount of times you have been wrong in that argument.

 

There is a difference, but I do not expect you to understand that.

 

I feel so humiliated, my scientific definitions are no match for your laughing smilies! damn your razor sharp mind! CURSES!

[Therapist]

Oh I am quite sure you have never lost an argument, that much is patently obvious, regardless of the amount of times you have been wrong in that argument.

 

There is a difference, but I do not expect you to understand that.

 

I feel so humiliated, my scientific definitions are no match for your laughing smilies! damn your razor sharp mind! CURSES!

 

Give it up. You're making a spectacle of yourself.

[Victorian]

mark king 6-6 steve davis... if anyone's interested.

 

both english BTW but davis being a ginger suggests slightly different genes than his bald opponent. welsh IMO.

[Deek]

Toys out the pram alert.

 

You need to learn how to take humiliation gracefully. Unfortunately I can't give you lessons on this one as I've never been rag-dolled.

 

Apart from the Duke of Wellington being a famous Irishman perhaps?

[Guest Bilel Mohsni]

Give it up. You're making a spectacle of yourself.

 

Yes, scientific definition is making me look quite the ignorant person... Smilies are far better.

[Guest Bilel Mohsni]

mark king 6-6 steve davis... if anyone's interested.

 

both english BTW but davis being a ginger suggests slightly different genes than his bald opponent. welsh IMO.

 

 

Stephan Davies, perhaps?

[Tiberius Stinkfinger]

Yes, scientific definition is making me look quite the ignorant person... Smilies are far better.

 

 

 

Spew is the colour...

[Guest Bilel Mohsni]

Spew is the colour...

 

Indeed... Spew is 'burple' afterall.

[Therapist]

Yes, scientific definition is making me look quite the ignorant person... Smilies are far better.

 

Try this....

 

1. Locate an English person.

 

2. Wait until a police constable passes by.

 

3. When said police constable does pass by, call said English person an "English twonk".

 

4. Enjoy your day in court when you'll be convicted of a race hate crime.

[Boab]

Never mind Mark Walters was there no opportunity to skelp Steve Kirk in the coupon with a ball from close range and see how he liked it !!

 

Aye,where's the OP with the Stevie Kirk story?

If it involves bananas or their uses i fear the worse for this thread!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Tiberius Stinkfinger]

Try this....

 

1. Locate an English person.

 

2. Wait until a police constable passes by.

 

3. When said police constable does pass by, call said English person an "English twonk".

 

4. Enjoy your day in court when you'll be convicted of a race hate crime.

 

 

I will give this experiment a go, what country would you like me to do it in ??

[Buffalo Bill]

Mothy, are you trying to tell me that I'm the same race as Pat McGinlay (Stalker), John Leslie (Beast) and Charlie Reid (dwarf-shagger)?

[Craigieboy]

Mothy, are you trying to tell me that I'm the same race as Pat McGinlay (Stalker), John Leslie (Beast) and Charlie Reid (dwarf-shagger)?

[Deek]

Mothy, are you trying to tell me that I'm the same race as Pat McGinlay (Stalker), John Leslie (Beast) and Charlie Reid (dwarf-shagger)?

 

 

And WAJ.

[Guest Bilel Mohsni]

Try this....

 

1. Locate an English person.

 

2. Wait until a police constable passes by.

 

3. When said police constable does pass by, call said English person an "English twonk".

 

4. Enjoy your day in court when you'll be convicted of a race hate crime.

 

 

Ah, now that is the crux of it... It would be a 'hate crime' (silly but modern recognised expression) but it would not be racism if you were to be scientificaly accurate in defining it... It would be xenephobic. It would be covered by the same law as a racist verbal attack going by the case you put forward and the precedent that will have been set therafter (i have not checked out your example but am perfectly willing to accept it as true) but that will have been set by a judge and will have been done for ease of use in later cases whereby one law will be needed to try someone for the different but similar cases of xenephobic and racist abuse... this is understandable as most judges will not also be professors or doctors of genetics.

 

You should know all this though as you made such a big deal out of another poster making a mistake in defining bigotry as racism... In that muslims are not a race, just like Scots are not but caucasians are.

 

Do you follow?

[Nelly Terraces]

It was 24 years ago FFS. Get over it, and stop the self flaggelation.

[Denny Crane]

You will find that those on this thread who are "putting in context" the Walters incident are desperate to equate not wanting England to win football matches with calling people "English *******s". They've been trying to muddy the waters for years on this issue and are too thick to see that it hasn't worked.

 

Quite right. Living in England at the time (residing on a street and attending a school with a significant black/Asian presence) I was up in Edinburgh that weekend and was absolutely appalled with the disgusting treatment handed out to Walters by pondlife that should have known better. School the next Monday was interesting with my pals asking me why my club was racist! Hearts' reputation suffered past the A1 as I found out that following week.

 

And one context setter on JKB is one renown for stating that blue is the colour in various Chelsea threads. Referring to that era/context which this person cites, I recently read former Chelsea player Paul Cannoville's autobiography. He played for Chelsea in 1980s and also thought blue was the colour. Only, certain sections of Chelsea's support had a problem with blue being worn by black (despite London having a more multi-cultural make-up with regard to its populace than Edinburgh - where's the context there?)! To excuse such behaviour with the pithy defence of 'context' is pathetic and only serves to let the (at best) ignorant and (at worst) evil minded off the hook.

And if Therapist and his ilk wish to label me as a "PC handwringer" then it is a badge I wear with pride.

[gorgie rd eh11]

Tell you what mate,for me you have lit the torch paper,you call the hun support vile and all that yet you seem to defend the Hearts fans because it happened some where else,and your a teacher,what a fecking joke you are.

 

Ever,and I mean every club has it's arseholes who blurt out racist and biggoted abuse,we are no different from rangers in that department it's just that pound for pound there are more of them,percentage wise probably the same.

 

 

 

What a load of p*sh. I can't see where he defends the actions of the Hearts support, in fact he makes a valid point in that whenever racism in scottish football comes up it's usually the Tynecastle/walters incident that is used as an example. "Every club has it's arseholes", so why is it always Hearts who are brought up, there's many more recent examples involving lots of different clubs closer to home to ferguson. The parkhead banana throwing seems to have been wiped from history.

 

I wish you defended HMFC as vigorously as you defend rangers.

[Guest Bilel Mohsni]

Mothy, are you trying to tell me that I'm the same race as Pat McGinlay (Stalker), John Leslie (Beast) and Charlie Reid (dwarf-shagger)?

 

It honestly gives me no pleasure whatsoever to say this but.................... yes.

 

However to look on the bright side, you are also the same race as Darwin, Attenborough, Dawkins, Hawkins, Da Vinci, Beathoven, Homer and Sir Walter Scott if that helps?

[alwaysthereinspirit]

Quite right. Living in England at the time (residing on a street and attending a school with a significant black/Asian presence) I was up in Edinburgh that weekend and was absolutely appalled with the disgusting treatment handed out to Walters by pondlife that should have known better. School the next Monday was interesting with my pals asking me why my club was racist! Hearts' reputation suffered past the A1 as I found out that following week.

 

And one context setter on JKB is one renown for stating that blue is the colour in various Chelsea threads. Referring to that era/context which this person cites, I recently read former Chelsea player Paul Cannoville's autobiography. He played for Chelsea in 1980s and also thought blue was the colour. Only, certain sections of Chelsea's support had a problem with blue being worn by black (despite London having a more multi-cultural make-up with regard to its populace than Edinburgh - where's the context there?)! To excuse such behaviour with the pithy defence of 'context' is pathetic and only serves to let the (at best) ignorant and (at worst) evil minded off the hook.

And if Therapist and his ilk wish to label me as a "PC handwringer" then it is a badge I wear with pride.

 

 

oHH

[Therapist]

Ah, now that is the crux of it... It would be a 'hate crime' (silly but modern recognised expression) but it would not be racism if you were to be scientificaly accurate in defining it... It would be xenephobic. It would be covered by the same law as a racist verbal attack going by the case you put forward and the precedent that will have been set therafter (i have not checked out your example but am perfectly willing to accept it as true) but that will have been set by a judge and will have been done for ease of use in later cases whereby one law will be needed to try someone for the different but similar cases of xenephobic and racist abuse... this is understandable as most judges will not also be professors or doctors of genetics.

 

You should know all this though as you made such a big deal out of another poster making a mistake in defining bigotry as racism... In that muslims are not a race, just like Scots are not but caucasians are.

 

Do you follow?

 

From now on, when I hear Hearts fans singing "I'd even dig the Channel Tunnel" I will automatically think of you.

 

But to cut to the chase, it doesn't matter about the points you've highlighted in black.

[Tiberius Stinkfinger]

It honestly gives me no pleasure whatsoever to say this but.................... yes.

 

However to look on the bright side, you are also the same race as Darwin, Attenborough, Dawkins, Hawkins, Da Vinci, Beathoven, Homer,Sir Walter Scott & Lionheartf if that helps?

 

 

 

Sorted that for thee.

 

 

Spew is the colour...