shaun.lawson Posted October 15, 2009 Author Share Posted October 15, 2009 Ahhh bring North Korea to the table. Didn't they play before somewhere and do quite well?? Exactly. Imagine if it happened again. Or better still, if they had to play their neighbours! You'd need a Swiss ref for that one... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southside1874 Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 The USA in the same group as North Korea. Its got to happen. All the big boys that are going have qualified the rest is about the show............ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Del1812 Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 Argentina just wanted to play for a draw and hoped they'd sneak it. They got exactly what they wanted but IMO disgraced what Argentina should be about in those circumstances. A draw could have meant they needed a play-off and that is an absolute joke for a country as good as that. Maradona is just a joke of a manager. If they keep him in charge for the finals then they will be embarassed. If they come across a tactically efficient team with a bit of an attacking edge, e.g. Sweden, then they could end up on the end of a disastrous humping. EDIT: Btw, loved watching this game in the pub at this time of night. Felt like waiting for the build up to a big heavyweight bout in Boxing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
albishop Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 I will never hope for a Uruguay win, especially after Mexico '86. In fact there is more chance of me cheering for an England win than a Uruguayan win. I include all sports in this statement, championship tiddy winks et al. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun.lawson Posted October 15, 2009 Author Share Posted October 15, 2009 Argentina just wanted to play for a draw and hoped they'd sneak it. They got exactly what they wanted but IMO disgraced what Argentina should be about in those circumstances. A draw could have meant they needed a play-off and that is an absolute joke for a country as good as that. Maradona is just a joke of a manager. If they keep him in charge for the finals then they will be embarassed. If they come across a tactically efficient team with a bit of an attacking edge, e.g. Sweden, then they could end up on the end of a disastrous humping. EDIT: Btw, loved watching this game in the pub at this time of night. Felt like waiting for the build up to a big heavyweight bout in Boxing. But Sweden are already eliminated, FJ! I do get what you mean, but aren't so sure. Why? 1990. A disgrace of an Argentina team, playing almost entirely on memory, scraped and scrambled all the way to the final, defying all logic and experts everywhere. They were crap - yet it took a non-penalty to finally beat them. There have always been two very distinct sides to Argentina. One is the exhilarating inter-passing and dribbling exemplified by the 1978 winners, or the 2006 side which could have won it. The other is cynical and destructive, exemplified by 1990 - or by Estudiantes de la Plata, winners of the Copa Libertadores and Inter-Continental Cup in the late 1960s. The latter involved them kicking and maiming Manchester United up and down the park - even opening a huge gash in, of all people, Nobby Stiles' shin! Playing for Estudiantes at the time was one Carlos Bilardo. He went on to lead Argentina in 1986 and 1990, and is now back advising Maradona. He is the ultimate win at all costs pragmatist: how you play does not matter to him, something he takes to incredible extremes. There he was joining in the celebrations earlier; and if Maradona remains (as must be probable), there he'll be next summer. Scheming and plotting the downfall of other vastly more positive sides. The World Cup has been littered with God awful sides going a long, long way. Germany in 2002, Argentina in 1990, Germany in 1986, Germany (Schumacher and all) in 1982... Don't dismiss the prospects of even an Argentina side this bad doing the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Del1812 Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 But Sweden are already eliminated, FJ! I do get what you mean, but aren't so sure. Why? 1990. A disgrace of an Argentina team, playing almost entirely on memory, scraped and scrambled all the way to the final, defying all logic and experts everywhere. They were crap - yet it took a non-penalty to finally beat them. There have always been two very distinct sides to Argentina. One is the exhilarating inter-passing and dribbling exemplified by the 1978 winners, or the 2006 side which could have won it. The other is cynical and destructive, exemplified by 1990 - or by Estudiantes de la Plata, winners of the Copa Libertadores and Inter-Continental Cup in the late 1960s. The latter involved them kicking and maiming Manchester United up and down the park - even opening a huge gash in, of all people, Nobby Stiles' shin! Playing for Estudiantes at the time was one Carlos Bilardo. He went on to lead Argentina in 1986 and 1990, and is now back advising Maradona. He is the ultimate win at all costs pragmatist: how you play does not matter to him, something he takes to incredible extremes. There he was joining in the celebrations earlier; and if Maradona remains (as must be probable), there he'll be next summer. Scheming and plotting the downfall of other vastly more positive sides. The World Cup has been littered with God awful sides going a long, long way. Germany in 2002, Argentina in 1990, Germany in 1986, Germany (Schumacher and all) in 1982... Don't dismiss the prospects of even an Argentina side this bad doing the same. Ah yes, of course. Clouded by 8 pints and the frustrating findings of the Ryan McGowan thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie-Brown Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 Countries like Argentina, Germany & Italy are great tournament teams and very focused on achieving progression to the latter stages & possible success by giving everything they have - they are also very determined and getting through is all that really matters, sometimes that is with great teams and good skill,at other times it is with very generous amounts of luck and/or cynical play or tactics but along with Brazil you often see them at the business end of tournaments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NEILY1874 Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 I know mate, please forgive me!! Consider yourself forgiven bud. Its no the first time, and i doubt whether itll be the last that ive had a good looking bet fecked in the final stages of a match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
$ilvery_Moon Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 Yup. And of course Carlos Bilardo, that utter hijo de puta, had to get in on the act at the end. What a disappointment - and you're quite right: the ref did ruin it. Has he never heard of playing advantage? There was a warning about him beforehand on a Uruguayan blog I frequent - and they were right. Uruguay didn't have anything like enough though, Caceres was absolutely clueless for the sending off, and Argentina always looked the more composed, compact side. So it's the play-offs yet again for Uruguay. And as for Argentina: if Maradona stays, they'll get theirs. England still owe them one: 2002 wasn't enough for me. Bring those *******s on! On last nights showing they dont look a threat but that is a dangerous thing to say! I totally agree with your last paragraph Shaun! Nothing would give me more pleasure than sending the fat druggie and his team home early on a plane. :10900:Well maybe winning the World Cup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
portobellojambo1 Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 Countries like Argentina, Germany & Italy are great tournament teams and very focused on achieving progression to the latter stages & possible success by giving everything they have - they are also very determined and getting through is all that really matters, sometimes that is with great teams and good skill,at other times it is with very generous amounts of luck and/or cynical play or tactics but along with Brazil you often see them at the business end of tournaments. While I agree with the basis of what you say CB I do think that in this coming tournament, in South Africa, Argentina's only hope of progression is by the cynical route. They will have to kick and cheat their way through the tournament, they will not progress based on skill. At the moment they have one stand out player, Lionel Messi. When he is on song Argentina play well as a whole. When he is off form he personally is very ordinary, and Argentina as a team are non existent. Not that I want to see it happen, i.e. I'm not promoting on field violence, but if any team wants to ensure they keep Argentina quiet in the World Cup the tactic is simple, put Messi out of the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeepers Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 But not for poor old Jeepers! This, ladies and gents, is why betting is a mug's game. I only put ?40 on, just wanted a reaction. Like I have ?400 to waste! Still, Uruguay were pretty pants. And I'm only 51. Not that old Although I am a little poorer! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
interista Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 On last nights showing they dont look a threat but that is a dangerous thing to say! I totally agree with your last paragraph Shaun! Nothing would give me more pleasure than sending the fat druggie and his team home early on a plane. :10900:Well maybe winning the World Cup. As an admirer of Diego's, nothing would give me greater pleasure than seeing his team send England (and possibly Italy) packing, maybe with goals from El Principe Milito. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hEartley Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 Uruguay are a small nation that tries its heart out - so get behind them! No other nation with such a tiny population has even got to the final, let alone won the thing twice. It was fascinating to read this thread 1 week after the game finished. I talked to a scot friend b4 the game. He kept talking about the 1986 game, but that i would find many scots relating to uruguay (both very traditional football nations, small, ....also respect the 2 world cups, 2 semi final appearances (54/70)etc). thats one of the reasons i absolutely love scotland. the grit, the will to fight back. it's identical for both nations. (I was heartbroken with scotland lost to holland. what a great performance that was). ps oh.....to clarify, uruguay is a 4 x world champ. FIFA officially recognizes the 1924/28 as the only "olympic tournaments" worth world titles (thus allowed the 4 stars on the shirt after the 60s). Football historians have argued that because all the major european powers were there in 24 and 28, they were much harder to win than 1930. I kind of agree. Anywho, an english friend of a friend won a ticket to the WC final in 2006 for answering that piece of trivia. "What was the first world football championship final". Everyone called in and said "Argies v. Uru". But it was actually Uru vs. Switzerland 1924 Reason being cause FIFA organized those tournaments but needed the olympics to host the event. (for lack of $$$ at the time). (I love football history, as you can see. ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott_jambo Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 But Sweden are already eliminated, FJ! I do get what you mean, but aren't so sure. Why? 1990. A disgrace of an Argentina team, playing almost entirely on memory, scraped and scrambled all the way to the final, defying all logic and experts everywhere. They were crap - yet it took a non-penalty to finally beat them. There have always been two very distinct sides to Argentina. One is the exhilarating inter-passing and dribbling exemplified by the 1978 winners, or the 2006 side which could have won it. The other is cynical and destructive, exemplified by 1990 - or by Estudiantes de la Plata, winners of the Copa Libertadores and Inter-Continental Cup in the late 1960s. The latter involved them kicking and maiming Manchester United up and down the park - even opening a huge gash in, of all people, Nobby Stiles' shin! Playing for Estudiantes at the time was one Carlos Bilardo. He went on to lead Argentina in 1986 and 1990, and is now back advising Maradona. He is the ultimate win at all costs pragmatist: how you play does not matter to him, something he takes to incredible extremes. There he was joining in the celebrations earlier; and if Maradona remains (as must be probable), there he'll be next summer. Scheming and plotting the downfall of other vastly more positive sides. The World Cup has been littered with God awful sides going a long, long way. Germany in 2002, Argentina in 1990, Germany in 1986, Germany (Schumacher and all) in 1982... Don't dismiss the prospects of even an Argentina side this bad doing the same. England 1966 etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
$ilvery_Moon Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 England 1966 etc... Scotland in... or maybe not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott_jambo Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 Scotland in... or maybe not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hEartley Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 Scotland in... or maybe not. I always felt Scotland 86 had potential. They should have made it past the group stage. Also politics prevented the best players (IE: Non old firm players) from being called up in the 50s and 60s. Scotland 78 is just legendary. There's actually a famous Argentine ex-player/football analyst , who said he got emotional when Scotland played Brazil in 1998. He had never seen such passionate support in his entire life. He ended up moving to scotland for a bit and flys to watch them play at hamden every single time they play. He always shows up on Argentinean tv shows wearing the Scotland kit. Pretty great stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun.lawson Posted October 21, 2009 Author Share Posted October 21, 2009 I always felt Scotland 86 had potential. They should have made it past the group stage. Also politics prevented the best players (IE: Non old firm players) from being called up in the 50s and 60s. Scotland 78 is just legendary. There's actually a famous Argentine ex-player/football analyst , who said he got emotional when Scotland played Brazil in 1998. He had never seen such passionate support in his entire life. He ended up moving to scotland for a bit and flys to watch them play at hamden every single time they play. He always shows up on Argentinean tv shows wearing the Scotland kit. Pretty great stuff. And Maradona often says hello to his "Scottish, Welsh and Irish friends": hehehe! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun.lawson Posted October 21, 2009 Author Share Posted October 21, 2009 Hmm. How to respond? Oh, I know: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOuYIYh5A2c http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3O0psZe-VE My favourite moment against the Dutch happened 12 minutes from time... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy Marsh Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 I always felt Scotland 86 had potential. They should have made it past the group stage. Also politics prevented the best players (IE: Non old firm players) from being called up in the 50s and 60s. Scotland 78 is just legendary. There's actually a famous Argentine ex-player/football analyst , who said he got emotional when Scotland played Brazil in 1998. He had never seen such passionate support in his entire life. He ended up moving to scotland for a bit and flys to watch them play at hamden every single time they play. He always shows up on Argentinean tv shows wearing the Scotland kit. Pretty great stuff. I am suprised he believes we are really passionate. I dont think we have much passion at all compared to South American countries. Watching South American games on the box makes me jealous as their fans are mental and the atmosphere is electric. Even last night I watched online Vasco da Gama (2nd division) play an away league match and even that was generating more noise than teams like Hamilton and St.Midden would in an entire season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott_jambo Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 Hmm. How to respond? Oh, I know: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOuYIYh5A2c http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3O0psZe-VE My favourite moment against the Dutch happened 12 minutes from time... Sorry Shaun this is a world cup thread. I believe this to be off topic. This might help though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun.lawson Posted October 21, 2009 Author Share Posted October 21, 2009 Sorry Shaun this is a world cup thread. I believe this to be off topic. Yes - but as a World Cup thread, there were just so many clips to choose from! I guess to a Scot, the World Cup 2nd round doesn't actually exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott_jambo Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 Yes - but as a World Cup thread, there were just so many clips to choose from! I guess to a Scot, the World Cup 2nd round doesn't actually exist. It exists and it will be all the sweeter if we ever get there. I hope we get a pat on the head from the English media when that time comes, in between you guys winning the World cup. How many world cups have the english media one? must be 5 or 6 now! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ol-c7efkBH4 MONKEYS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Romanov Saviour of HMFC Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 It exists and it will be all the sweeter if we ever get there. I hope we get a pat on the head from the English media when that time comes, in between you guys winning the World cup. How many world cups have the english media one? must be 5 or 6 now! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ol-c7efkBH4 MONKEYS. Shearer absolutely SEETHING. Anyone got the clip where Ian Wright is that gutted he refuses to talk? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HdFRzp8_l98&feature=related Lovely stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun.lawson Posted October 21, 2009 Author Share Posted October 21, 2009 It exists and it will be all the sweeter if we ever get there. I hope we get a pat on the head from the English media when that time comes, in between you guys winning the World cup. How many world cups have the english media one? must be 5 or 6 now! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ol-c7efkBH4 MONKEYS. I couldn't agree more. Scotland get ridiculed for 1978; for England, every World Cup is our 1978, and we'll never learn. And you'll certainly get a pat on the back from me if you ever reach the World Cup last 16: I'll actually be really chuffed for you. I struggle to see it ever happening though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott_jambo Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 I couldn't agree more. Scotland get ridiculed for 1978; for England, every World Cup is our 1978, and we'll never learn. And you'll certainly get a pat on the back from me if you ever reach the World Cup last 16: I'll actually be really chuffed for you. I struggle to see it ever happening though. Cheers Shaun, incidentally, i seem to remember that the english media and the papers made c. ronaldo out to be the villain in this peice, and went as far as to suggest Rooney did not stamp on the portugese player? Or is this me being selective in my memory. Here is another vid on the stamp. Totally ridiculous, sore one right into the scrotum! Why do the English players lose the plot so often? Is it the pressure? 1:10 in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun.lawson Posted October 21, 2009 Author Share Posted October 21, 2009 Cheers Shaun, incidentally, i seem to remember that the english media and the papers made c. ronaldo out to be the villain in this peice, and went as far as to suggest Rooney did not stamp on the portugese player? Or is this me being selective in my memory. Here is another vid on the stamp. Totally ridiculous, sore one right into the scrotum! Why do the English players lose the plot so often? Is it the pressure? 1:10 in. It is the pressure, no doubt. Bear in mind that sides like Portugal or Argentina refer to us with some justice as "the idiots", and spend a whole game winding us up and getting in cheap shots out of sight of the ref. Carvalho had been doing it to Rooney throughout: the foul on him leading up to the stamp entirely in keeping with what had been going on, about which the ref had done nothing. So Rooney got suckered into an indefensible act of stupidity - and Ronaldo responded with that wink. I loved Portugal at Euro 2000, where they played beautifully until Abel Xavier lost the plot near the end of the semi-final with France; I loathed them in 2006, because their approach was a disgrace, as Dutch players would confirm too. And against France in the semi, they threw themselves around with the most pathetic diving and play-acting I'd seen since they did the same thing against the Czechs at Euro 96, and got half the Czech side suspended for the next game, despite them doing nothing. The crowd at the semi-final in Germany had had enough, and booed them throughout. I very rarely agree with The Sun - but their referring to Ronaldo as a "Portugese winker" was, in my view, absolutely spot on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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