BOMBER ' FREE ON WEDNESDAY'

[felix]

I don't think the questionability over his conviction had the slightest bit to do with it. I think that had his case been watertight and unquestionable he would still be at home in Tripoli right now.

We'll agree to diagree then.

[Malinga the Swinga]

After listening to Kenny MacAskill over the last few days, what does come over is a man who is so far out his depth, it beggars belief he ever got such an imporatnt task in the first place. When I heard his speech on Wednesday, I thought the Rev I M Jolly was speaking. Surely this is the first case of a man betting his complete career on someone else dying, in basically 3 months or less. If Megrahi is alive at Christmas, then MacAskill would be as well resigning, as he will have blown it big time.

 

The anti US feeling by some is no shock, but this decision was a shocker. If he was innocent, and he may well have been, then an innocent man will go to his grave 'guilty'. If he is guilty, then we, Scottish people, have let a mass murderer go free. There are loads of questions to be answered here, but we will never see them.

 

One final point. If Gordon Brown can comment on Susan Boyle, and comment on Jade Goody, why has he no comment here?

[Guest Freewheelin' Jambo]

I don't think the questionability over his conviction had the slightest bit to do with it. I think that had his case been watertight and unquestionable he would still be at home in Tripoli right now.

 

I agree, a gross miscarriage of justice has occured. I just think that it is the one allowing a convicted man to walk free because we want to be pals with the countries boss.

 

As for further evidence, I would welcome any evidence to this case, however it is still not forthcoming. Just when will Megrahi's innocence proving "evidence" come forward?

 

I have only posted once so far on this thread and have tried to avoid it as many of the views I find abhorrant. My Lai, Guantanamo, etc mentioned. So do these undoubted crimes justify Lockerbie and that for the 270 whom perished who are now just inconvenient ghosts, like most victims become as we try to deal with finding guilt. Were these souls responsible for My Lai etc?

 

I agree with everything you say in your posts Husref.

 

Though I think that its just an opportunity to vent anti-American bile.

 

Like I said in my only post, if you gather enough "evidence" you can prove Hitler innocent. This man Megrahi was guilty. He was not even a scapegoat, he was involved and showed no mercy to the 270, who by the way, like all terriorism's victims, could be absolutely anyone. He had blood on his hands.

[Deek]

Its quite interesting to see how much the Americans are getting het up about this.

 

The top ten viewed stories from CNN are

 

 

Most Viewed

 

1. 1 12 annoying types of Facebookers

2. 2 Missile hit kills 19 in Pakistan

3. 3 India book controversy

4. 4 Wildfire rages in Greece

5. 5 Former president laid to rest

6. 6 Commentary: Iran rape allegations

7. 7 Breast implants identify body

8. 8 Taliban 'cut off voters' fingers'

9. 9 Mexico's economy taking hits from all...

10. 10 Ramadan begins amid Iraq violence

 

We will be reading it out of next weeks chip pokes and it will be fading away in our memory. Resurrected when he dies then disregarded again.

[Drew Busby !]

After listening to Kenny MacAskill over the last few days, what does come over is a man who is so far out his depth, it beggars belief he ever got such an imporatnt task in the first place. When I heard his speech on Wednesday, I thought the Rev I M Jolly was speaking. Surely this is the first case of a man betting his complete career on someone else dying, in basically 3 months or less. If Megrahi is alive at Christmas, then MacAskill would be as well resigning, as he will have blown it big time.

 

The anti US feeling by some is no shock, but this decision was a shocker. If he was innocent, and he may well have been, then an innocent man will go to his grave 'guilty'. If he is guilty, then we, Scottish people, have let a mass murderer go free. There are loads of questions to be answered here, but we will never see them.

 

One final point. If Gordon Brown can comment on Susan Boyle, and comment on Jade Goody, why has he no comment here?

 

Complete lack of understanding there of a cancer prognosis. I work in cancer research, even highly skilled oncologists will tell you its far from an exact science. In saying 3 months, he might live for 6 weeks ... he might live for 6 months. Either way though his fate is certain in the short-term.

[Drew Busby !]

I have only posted once so far on this thread and have tried to avoid it as many of the views I find abhorrant. My Lai, Guantanamo, etc mentioned. So do these undoubted crimes justify Lockerbie and that for the 270 whom perished who are now just inconvenient ghosts, like most victims become as we try to deal with finding guilt. Were these souls responsible for My Lai etc?

 

I agree with everything you say in your posts Husref.

 

Though I think that its just an opportunity to vent anti-American bile.

 

Like I said in my only post, if you gather enough "evidence" you can prove Hitler innocent. This man Megrahi was guilty. He was not even a scapegoat, he was involved and showed no mercy to the 270, who by the way, like all terriorism's victims, could be absolutely anyone. He had blood on his hands.

 

My Lai does not justify Lockerbie as you put it.

 

However it's an example which exposes the vacuous black hole of Americas hypocrisy and posturing reaction to the release of Megrahi. Are there any calls by outraged Americans to re-inter for life Lt William Calley, living and prospering and free, and who served only 4 years for his part in a massacare of innocents in Vietnam ? No, of course not. But they want every last second of jail-time for Megrahi who will be dead, and painfully so, in a matter of months. I'm not a Christian, rather I'm a humanist. But in accepting the existence of Jesus, theres no doubt that he would have shown compassion even in this situation. "Revenge forever" was not in his teachings.

 

Your own position on Megrahi's release is perfectly defensible, compassion towards those convicted of crime is one of the great moral questions after all, and will not be resolved in a few days on a football forum. However the US of A, by virtue of its own actions in the past and the present, has no absolute moral standpoint from which it can legitimately comment on or criticize the Scottish verdict of compassion in this case.

[Ben Dover]

I have only posted once so far on this thread and have tried to avoid it as many of the views I find abhorrant. My Lai, Guantanamo, etc mentioned. So do these undoubted crimes justify Lockerbie and that for the 270 whom perished who are now just inconvenient ghosts, like most victims become as we try to deal with finding guilt. Were these souls responsible for My Lai etc?

 

I agree with everything you say in your posts Husref.

 

Though I think that its just an opportunity to vent anti-American bile.

 

Like I said in my only post, if you gather enough "evidence" you can prove Hitler innocent. This man Megrahi was guilty. He was not even a scapegoat, he was involved and showed no mercy to the 270, who by the way, like all terriorism's victims, could be absolutely anyone. He had blood on his hands.

 

I just don't see how you can actually believe that FWJ

I've read a few links on here and IMO the case against him simply reeks of p!sh.

[red21]

Macaskill said in his sermon, sorry announcement...

 

I sought the views of the United Kingdom Government. I offered them the right to make representations or provide information. They declined to do so. They simply informed me that they saw no legal barrier to transfer and that they gave no assurances to the US Government at the time. They have declined to offer a full explanation as to what was discussed during this time, or to provide any information to substantiate their view. I find that highly regrettable.

 

Bit confused by that. I thought his party's aim for Scotland to be independent of the UK? Why then is he having a go at the UK government for not wishing to influence his decision and keeping their noses out of his decision?

 

The discussion in the recalled Scottish Parliament should be a bit lively tomorrow.

[red21]

One final point. If Gordon Brown can comment on Susan Boyle, and comment on Jade Goody, why has he no comment here?

 

Broon is perhaps showing the SNP a bit of respect and attempting not to strain relations between Scottish/UK gov even further - alternatively it could be entirely for selfish reasons - what ever he said would have been pounced on from all sides.

 

Agree that he should steer clear of commenting on the likes of Goody and Boyle though.

[Private Hudson]

I have only posted once so far on this thread and have tried to avoid it as many of the views I find abhorrant. My Lai, Guantanamo, etc mentioned. So do these undoubted crimes justify Lockerbie and that for the 270 whom perished who are now just inconvenient ghosts, like most victims become as we try to deal with finding guilt. Were these souls responsible for My Lai etc?

 

I agree with everything you say in your posts Husref.

 

Though I think that its just an opportunity to vent anti-American bile.

 

Like I said in my only post, if you gather enough "evidence" you can prove Hitler innocent. This man Megrahi was guilty. He was not even a scapegoat, he was involved and showed no mercy to the 270, who by the way, like all terriorism's victims, could be absolutely anyone. He had blood on his hands.

 

What a ridiculous comparison. Not even remotely similar cases.

No one is debating that the victims were innocent, why would that even need to be said? To make you look compassionate?

I'm willing to wager you have read very little, if anything, on the case and the court proceedings that found him guilty. There are many very good links on here already to show you what really happened, including the thoughts of some relatives of the victims on the verdict and 'evidence' used and supressed.

[felix]

Like I said in my only post, if you gather enough "evidence" you can prove Hitler innocent. This man Megrahi was guilty. He was not even a scapegoat, he was involved and showed no mercy to the 270, who by the way, like all terriorism's victims, could be absolutely anyone. He had blood on his hands

 

That's the thing though - there's many who believe, including UN observers at the trial, the prosecution DIDN'T gather enough evidence.

Magrahi was convicted on two circumstantial pieces of dodgy evidence , one of which was based on the testimony of a man paid ?2million by the US State

 

And as for terrorist victimes being anyone , I know what you mean , but in this particular case, it was no accident that the majority of victims were from the US.

[Buffalo Bill]

These Scottish Executives have brought shame on our country.

 

 

I can totally understand why the Americans are fuming at us.

 

 

I just heard fat Alex bluster his bleedin' heart out on the radio. What a joke these people are.

[Private Hudson]

These Scottish Executives have brought shame on our country.

 

 

I can totally understand why the Americans are fuming at us.

 

 

I just heard fat Alex bluster his bleedin' heart out on the radio. What a joke these people are.

 

I don't think we had a reputation with America to have tarnished. For most Americans Scotland is Gameskeeper Willie on the Simpsons or where the original Appalachian mountain rednecks came from. Hardly heady stuff.

[Arafat]

Can't remember everyone throwing their hands up in outrage, when prisoners were released under the terms of the "Good Friday Agreement", or the Americans were funding Noraid and the IRA.

[The Gasman]

Can't remember everyone throwing their hands up in outrage, when prisoners were released under the terms of the "Good Friday Agreement", or the Americans were funding Noraid and the IRA.

 

 

.......or when Ronnie Briggs was released earlier this month.

 

 

The silence was deafening.

 

 

 

[Cabbie754]

These Scottish Executives have brought shame on our country.

 

 

I can totally understand why the Americans are fuming at us.

 

 

I just heard fat Alex bluster his bleedin' heart out on the radio. What a joke these people are.

 

The Scottish Government made a very brave decision.

 

The USA, while in public will be condemning the decision, privately will be queuing up along side the UK to sign business deals with Libya.

[Hickups]

I know Scotland has devolved powers over justice decisions and that the decision to release Megrahi was seen as a justice one.

 

I think someone said, "do you seriously believe this was a decision made by the Scottish Government?"

 

I seriously don't think the Scottish government took this decision.

 

This was a foreign policy decision, not a justice one.

 

Scotlands getting the flak for a decision which Britain and the US will be getting something from, ie Oil and Gas, in secret this decision will please all even if in public they denounce it.

 

The whole thing from start to finish reeks of corruption.

 

I find the US's stance in public extremely hypocritical considering they harbour IRA terrorists.

[Malinga the Swinga]

Complete lack of understanding there of a cancer prognosis. I work in cancer research, even highly skilled oncologists will tell you its far from an exact science. In saying 3 months, he might live for 6 weeks ... he might live for 6 months. Either way though his fate is certain in the short-term.

 

Doesn't matter. The Rev I M Jolly stated he was being released because he has only a few months, and the accepted period of time provided is 3 months. Given that if 3 months becomes stated and printed enough times, it will become the truth. I M Jolly's career has 3 months to go unless Megrahi dies, because if he is still alive later than that, he will look as though he has been fooled by the Lybians, regardless of whether or not that is the case.

[Malinga the Swinga]

I know Scotland has devolved powers over justice decisions and that the decision to release Megrahi was seen as a justice one.

 

I think someone said, "do you seriously believe this was a decision made by the Scottish Government?"

 

I seriously don't think the Scottish government took this decision.

 

This was a foreign policy decision, not a justice one.

 

Scotlands getting the flak for a decision which Britain and the US will be getting something from, ie Oil and Gas, in secret this decision will please all even if in public they denounce it.

 

The whole thing from start to finish reeks of corruption.

 

I find the US's stance in public extremely hypocritical considering they harbour IRA terrorists.

 

Agreed the US are hypocrits because they harboured IRA terrorists, but that is up to them. We had the chance to keep a murderer in jail, and make him serve his sentence. We didn't take it, and you had better believe Tony, Mandy and geeting faced Gordon had a lot to do with it. Give it to middle of Sept and reckon BP or other Brit company will have large new deal for oil exploration announced.

[Drew Busby !]

Agreed the US are hypocrits because they harboured IRA terrorists, but that is up to them. We had the chance to keep a murderer in jail, and make him serve his sentence. We didn't take it, and you had better believe Tony, Mandy and geeting faced Gordon had a lot to do with it. Give it to middle of Sept and reckon BP or other Brit company will have large new deal for oil exploration announced.

 

Deal was done 2 years ago mate, BP are already on the case thanks to Tony B's sterling work with Gadaffi.

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/libya/6035125/How-Gaddafi-came-in-from-the-cold.html

 

"

...The British energy giant is scouring 21,000 square miles of the country's desert and coastline for untapped oil. Libya already possesses no less than 42 billion barrels of proven oil reserves – more than anywhere else in Africa - and many billions more probably lie undiscovered. On top of all this, Libya has at least 1.5 billion cubic meters of natural gas.

 

Nature has bestowed this largesse upon a country with only six million people, a rare combination which should, in principle, allow Col Gaddafi's domain to become one of the richest nations per capita in the world. But this hinges on Libya turning out as much oil as possible. Devoid of Western technology or investment, the state oil company produces only 1.8 million barrels a day - about half the amount that could be achieved. The arrival of BP and other Western companies should change this, allowing a projected doubling of oil output and placing tens of billions of dollars in Col Gaddafi's hands.

 

Other energy companies, notably from Russia, are trying to get in on the act. But Libya is unlikely to switch its favour, because only the Western giants, with the most advanced technology, can guarantee that production will reach its full potential.

 

The deal to allow BP back into Libya was struck in Col Gaddafi's unique fashion in 2007. The Brother Leader received Tony Blair in a threadbare, sparsely furnished tent, decorated with imprints of camels and pitched in a featureless expanse of Sahara near the Gulf of Sidra. Col Gaddafi, unshaven and swathed in brown robes, looked as unkempt and frayed at the edges as his tent.

 

Almost exactly 33 years earlier, this was the man who had burnished his credentials as a fervent socialist revolutionary by nationalising all BP's assets in his country. This time, the bemused figure of Peter Sutherland, the chairman of BP and a symbol of global capitalism, could be seen waiting outside the tent, mingling with an array of journalists and Libyan officials in Arab robes.

 

This may have been the first time that Mr Sutherland had been kept waiting beside a sand dune for an audience with a head of state, yet the agreement he and Mr Blair secured opened up vast new tracts for BP to explore. Before this meeting, Mr Blair disclosed that he was on first name terms with Col Gaddafi and paid tribute to the Libyan's reliability as an ally. "There is nothing I've ever agreed with him that should be done that hasn't been done," said the then Prime Minister...."

[Hickups]

Agreed the US are hypocrits because they harboured IRA terrorists, but that is up to them. We had the chance to keep a murderer in jail, and make him serve his sentence. We didn't take it, and you had better believe Tony, Mandy and geeting faced Gordon had a lot to do with it. Give it to middle of Sept and reckon BP or other Brit company will have large new deal for oil exploration announced.

 

No doubt there will be.

 

I didn't think the Scottish Exec/Gov had any say in the decision tbh, I don't believe for a second that a decision of such huge diplomatic importance would be left to a devolved essembly.

 

Al-Megrahi was used as a patsy, I don't believe he was guilty, his trial was flawed as he wasn't convicted by a public jury.

 

The Camp Zeist trial was an abuse of the Scottish justice system anyway, he was convicted by 3 judges, clearly because a public jury couldn't be trusted to come up with a politically correct decision, if Al-Megrahi was given a fair trial with a public jury he'd have got off with a not proven verdict. His co-accused was up for the same charges and was found not guilty, clearly there was a deal made in which one is freed while the other takes the blame.

 

He's never been proven guilty in a court of law which I recognise and which law is meant to recognise therefore he should never have been jailed in the first place.

 

I sincerely hope he or someone proves his innocence and we hear the truth, unfortunately thats been whitewashed over so badly we probably never will.

[Drew Busby !]

Doesn't matter. The Rev I M Jolly stated he was being released because he has only a few months, and the accepted period of time provided is 3 months. Given that if 3 months becomes stated and printed enough times, it will become the truth. I M Jolly's career has 3 months to go unless Megrahi dies, because if he is still alive later than that, he will look as though he has been fooled by the Lybians, regardless of whether or not that is the case.

 

Yes, it's the figure that will be quoted. It was a trio of Scottish oncologists who arrived at that prognosis and will be an estimate based on his current condition and the expected agressive progress of the disease. But if it goes to 4 or 5 months he won't have been fooled by the Libyans, just by the perverse nature of the disease. We know that no Libyans, medical or otherwise, had any say in arriving at that figure.

[Malinga the Swinga]

Yes, it's the figure that will be quoted. It was a trio of Scottish oncologists who arrived at that prognosis and will be an estimate based on his current condition and the expected agressive progress of the disease. But if it goes to 4 or 5 months he won't have been fooled by the Libyans, just by the perverse nature of the disease. We know that no Libyans, medical or otherwise, had any say in arriving at that figure.

 

What happens if 6 months stretches to a year? Lets face it, evidence of anything can be faked. Can you believe we are debating the length of time a man will take to die, as if that is a normal topic of conversation.

Strange times.

[Drew Busby !]

What happens if 6 months stretches to a year? Lets face it, evidence of anything can be faked. Can you believe we are debating the length of time a man will take to die, as if that is a normal topic of conversation.

Strange times.

 

My mistake, it wasn't 3 oncologists.

 

It was 2 oncologists and 2 urologists. Are you seriously suggesting that 4 medics could have been fooled into a terminal cancer diagnosis - or have somehow provided 4 independent but false medical submissions ?

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/aug/23/kenny-macaskill-decision-megrahi-release

It was also a decision buttressed by two oncologists and two urologists who provided written documentation that, in their opinions, the Libyan prisoner was in the very last stages of his final agony.

 

http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/lockerbie/Megrahi-will-need-large-.5575534.jp

WHEN men are in the final stages of prostate cancer nothing happens suddenly. The average patient who has three months to live may be walking around talking to people. But that same patient might well be bed-ridden for a period of weeks before his death.

[Malinga the Swinga]

My mistake, it wasn't 3 oncologists.

 

It was 2 oncologists and 2 urologists. Are you seriously suggesting that 4 medics could have been fooled into a terminal cancer diagnosis - or have somehow provided 4 independent but false medical submissions ?

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/aug/23/kenny-macaskill-decision-megrahi-release

It was also a decision buttressed by two oncologists and two urologists who provided written documentation that, in their opinions, the Libyan prisoner was in the very last stages of his final agony.

 

http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/lockerbie/Megrahi-will-need-large-.5575534.jp

WHEN men are in the final stages of prostate cancer nothing happens suddenly. The average patient who has three months to live may be walking around talking to people. But that same patient might well be bed-ridden for a period of weeks before his death.

 

I'm saying evidence can be faked for anything. They saw what they saw, but can they be guaranteed that they are of the right person. If authorities want something seen, it will be. If they want something covered up, it will be.

[Guest]

I'm not surprised at the right wing USA having a go at Scotland but I was a little surprised at why there was some bad reaction from some Jambos about decision to release Megrahi then I realised it's just the UJ brigade having a go at showing that there is still right wing views alive and kicking at tynecastle.

 

 

Aye, ok then. You are obviously superior to everyone else and your judgement is final.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Broon is perhaps showing the SNP a bit of respect and attempting not to strain relations between Scottish/UK gov even further - alternatively it could be entirely for selfish reasons - what ever he said would have been pounced on from all sides.

 

Agree that he should steer clear of commenting on the likes of Goody and Boyle though.

 

He did find time to comment on the Ashes though! Muppet!

 

FWIW, I'm in the camp that says that this was a political stitch-up from start to finish. The analysis by Paul Foot (The Flight From Justice) shows how farcical the case was.

[blairdin]

What I find extremely distasteful is the way the unionist parties are now using the issue as a political baseball bat to beat the Scottish Government.

 

None of them said anything in the weeks and days leading up to the decision. Call me cynical, but if MacAskill had ruled that he was to remain in prison then I bet these same parties would be up in arms over our the Scottish Governments lack of compassion. It's an absolute disgrace.

 

The decision was made in accordance with the laws of the land - our land. In our land, a life sentence doesn't mean life, our law allows compassion. This differs from the law of the land where many of the victims came from, a point most critics are missing or choosing to ignore.

 

The pending appeal and prison transfer agreement complicated matters, as did the fact this was a high profile foriegn prisoner whose crime was really against a superpower - a 35 minute delay in Heathrow meant it just happened to happen in our airspace and not in internatonal waters. In these circumstances questions would have been asked of MacAskill if he hadn't taken a close personal interest in the process from the off.

 

What is totally obvious is MacAskill was damned if he did, damned if he didn't.

 

My grievance isn't with MacAskill's decision, it's with the points of law he has had to apply in the last few weeks. They suck and were outwith his control.

 

I think there needs to be a further FAE, depending on what new information Megrahi and his team release into the public domain in the coming weeks

[Ossory_Jambo]

I'm saying evidence can be faked for anything. They saw what they saw, but can they be guaranteed that they are of the right person. If authorities want something seen, it will be. If they want something covered up, it will be.

 

Try applying that logic to the original trial and conviction of Mr. Al-Megrahi and see what you come up with!

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Try applying that logic to the original trial and conviction of Mr. Al-Megrahi and see what you come up with!

 

With the key witness being a CIA agent of course who failed to identify Megrahi in the first instance and stated that he was of a far smaller build.

 

The other thing is that the other Libyan was tried on EXACTLY the same evidence and found innocent. Anyone care to explain that one?

 

It was a political stitch-up from start to finish to suit American interests in the Middle East. This release means that everyone is spared the embarrassment of an appeal and instead they have to put up with the 'embarrassment' of Libyan celebrations.

 

Still, the rednecks can complain while filling up their SUV's with Libyan petrol..

[Sraman]

What I find extremely distasteful is the way the unionist parties are now using the issue as a political baseball bat to beat the Scottish Government.

 

None of them said anything in the weeks and days leading up to the decision. Call me cynical, but if MacAskill had ruled that he was to remain in prison then I bet these same parties would be up in arms over our the Scottish Governments lack of compassion. It's an absolute disgrace.

 

The decision was made in accordance with the laws of the land - our land. In our land, a life sentence doesn't mean life, our law allows compassion. This differs from the law of the land where many of the victims came from, a point most critics are missing or choosing to ignore.

 

The pending appeal and prison transfer agreement complicated matters, as did the fact this was a high profile foriegn prisoner whose crime was really against a superpower - a 35 minute delay in Heathrow meant it just happened to happen in our airspace and not in internatonal waters. In these circumstances questions would have been asked of MacAskill if he hadn't taken a close personal interest in the process from the off.

 

What is totally obvious is MacAskill was damned if he did, damned if he didn't.

 

My grievance isn't with MacAskill's decision, it's with the points of law he has had to apply in the last few weeks. They suck and were outwith his control.

 

I think there needs to be a further FAE, depending on what new information Megrahi and his team release into the public domain in the coming weeks

 

 

The London parties will jump on anything the SNP do whichever way they go with any decisions. A bunch of spineless cow towing ********* the lot of them.

[The Gasman]

What I find extremely distasteful is the way the unionist parties are now using the issue as a political baseball bat to beat the Scottish Government.

 

None of them said anything in the weeks and days leading up to the decision. Call me cynical, but if MacAskill had ruled that he was to remain in prison then I bet these same parties would be up in arms over our the Scottish Governments lack of compassion. It's an absolute disgrace.

 

The decision was made in accordance with the laws of the land - our land. In our land, a life sentence doesn't mean life, our law allows compassion. This differs from the law of the land where many of the victims came from, a point most critics are missing or choosing to ignore.

 

The pending appeal and prison transfer agreement complicated matters, as did the fact this was a high profile foriegn prisoner whose crime was really against a superpower - a 35 minute delay in Heathrow meant it just happened to happen in our airspace and not in internatonal waters. In these circumstances questions would have been asked of MacAskill if he hadn't taken a close personal interest in the process from the off.

 

What is totally obvious is MacAskill was damned if he did, damned if he didn't.

 

My grievance isn't with MacAskill's decision, it's with the points of law he has had to apply in the last few weeks. They suck and were outwith his control.

 

I think there needs to be a further FAE, depending on what new information Megrahi and his team release into the public domain in the coming weeks

 

Couldn't agree more, hits the nail right on the head.

[The Gasman]

My Lai does not justify Lockerbie as you put it.

 

However it's an example which exposes the vacuous black hole of Americas hypocrisy and posturing reaction to the release of Megrahi. Are there any calls by outraged Americans to re-inter for life Lt William Calley, living and prospering and free, and who served only 4 years for his part in a massacare of innocents in Vietnam ? No, of course not. But they want every last second of jail-time for Megrahi who will be dead, and painfully so, in a matter of months. I'm not a Christian, rather I'm a humanist. But in accepting the existence of Jesus, theres no doubt that he would have shown compassion even in this situation. "Revenge forever" was not in his teachings.

 

Your own position on Megrahi's release is perfectly defensible, compassion towards those convicted of crime is one of the great moral questions after all, and will not be resolved in a few days on a football forum. However the US of A, by virtue of its own actions in the past and the present, has no absolute moral standpoint from which it can legitimately comment on or criticize the Scottish verdict of compassion in this case.

 

The continuing American double standards ( "do as I say, don't do as I do" ) is breathtaking, but sadly, not at all surprising. As you quite rightly point out they have absolutely no rights to (try to) claim the moral high ground, but unfortunately a lot of people, and not just US citizens, believe the spin and hype.

[djf]

Politics are funny. It really just resembles football. We have our teams and we stick to it.

 

For the record, has this issue persuaded a previous SNP voter to vote otherwise or a non-SNP voter to vote SNP?

[Drew Busby !]

Politics are funny. It really just resembles football. We have our teams and we stick to it.

 

For the record, has this issue persuaded a previous SNP voter to vote otherwise or a non-SNP voter to vote SNP?

 

Its a real pity that Holyrood party politics is now a big part of this issue. A number of Labour, Liberal and Tory politicians have gradually come out in favour of MacAskills decision. The SNP itself is a broad church between left and right and its equally likely that a number of SNP members would have preferred to have seen Megrahi stay in jail.

 

An issue like this should never be party-political, its entirely a matter for individuals views on crime and punishment, justice and mercy, vengence or compassion.

[Cisc0 K1d]

There was quite a good comment on the decision in Sundays Observer :-

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/aug/23/kenny-macaskill-decision-megrahi-release

 

I really doubt whether the guy was guilty but regardless, I was impressed by Kenny MacAskill, to my mind it was a brave decision that most politicians would have ducked or made for party political reasons. In modern politics it is unusual to see politicians make difficult decisions and take full responsibility for them without hiding behind their spin doctors.

 

The New Yorker also has a more considered American view on things :-

 

http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/newsdesk/2009/08/megrahi-compassionate-release.html

[Cabbie754]

These Scottish Executives have brought shame on our country.

 

 

I can totally understand why the Americans are fuming at us.

 

 

I just heard fat Alex bluster his bleedin' heart out on the radio. What a joke these people are.

 

A bit OTT Buffalo Bill.

 

No shame in making a courageous decision, shows a lot of maturity. you might not agree with the decision but the is nothing to be ashamed of

[Cabbie754]

Its a real pity that Holyrood party politics is now a big part of this issue. A number of Labour, Liberal and Tory politicians have gradually come out in favour of MacAskills decision. The SNP itself is a broad church between left and right and its equally likely that a number of SNP members would have preferred to have seen Megrahi stay in jail.

 

An issue like this should never be party-political, its entirely a matter for individuals views on crime and punishment, justice and mercy, vengence or compassion.

 

Very fair comments

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Its a real pity that Holyrood party politics is now a big part of this issue. A number of Labour, Liberal and Tory politicians have gradually come out in favour of MacAskills decision. The SNP itself is a broad church between left and right and its equally likely that a number of SNP members would have preferred to have seen Megrahi stay in jail.

 

An issue like this should never be party-political, its entirely a matter for individuals views on crime and punishment, justice and mercy, vengence or compassion.

 

Very true. I actually think the SNP have played it very well politically. Brown looks even more useless in England (if that was possible) and the Holyrood opposition have stumbled to take a line given that Westminster apparently have washed their hands of the matter.

 

Amid all the bluster, the decision has actually saved any mess from a retrial given that Megrahi never did it in the first place.

[The Gasman]

There was quite a good comment on the decision in Sundays Observer :-

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/aug/23/kenny-macaskill-decision-megrahi-release

 

I really doubt whether the guy was guilty but regardless, I was impressed by Kenny MacAskill, to my mind it was a brave decision that most politicians would have ducked or made for party political reasons. In modern politics it is unusual to see politicians make difficult decisions and take full responsibility for them without hiding behind their spin doctors.

 

The New Yorker also has a more considered American view on things :-

 

http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/newsdesk/2009/08/megrahi-compassionate-release.html

 

After watching politicians trying to avoid personal responsibility for their own expenses claims ( getting one's moat cleaned must be a legitamate parliamentry expense, surely ? ) this is like a breath of fresh air.

 

Unlike most politicians, McAskil has had the cahonas to make the descision (whether you agree with or not) say publicly that he made the descision, and not try and hide.

 

Also interesting to read two well balanced (in my opinion) articles from opposite sides of the Atlantic, that show that some journalists are willing to look beyond the political rhetoric to the facts.

 

Maybe there's hope for this world yet !

[Gingerh]

These Scottish Executives have brought shame on our country.

 

 

I can totally understand why the Americans are fuming at us.

 

 

I just heard fat Alex bluster his bleedin' heart out on the radio. What a joke these people are.

 

As a non Scot - I don't agree. It was a difficult decision to make (and I'm still not sure myself what is the right call) but it was impressive that the decision made was contrary to the wishes of the only superpower left and also in the knowledge of the likely backlash. All the breast beating about being proud to be Scottish etc is all very well - but the real test is when your government takes on the burden of making a difficult decision on their own. Its the first time I've actually considered Scotland as having the attributes of a real independent country.

[billco98]

As a non Scot - I don't agree. It was a difficult decision to make (and I'm still not sure myself what is the right call) but it was impressive that the decision made was contrary to the wishes of the only superpower left and also in the knowledge of the likely backlash. All the breast beating about being proud to be Scottish etc is all very well - but the real test is when your government takes on the burden of making a difficult decision on their own. Its the first time I've actually considered Scotland as having the attributes of a real independent country.

 

How right you are.

 

Kenny MacAskill has been portrayed my many, who (in the event) are not fit to tie his shoe laces, as a man of straw. I listened to every word of his pronouncement and came to the conclusion that he is a man of strong unbending principle. I have never been more proud of being Scottish.

 

The opposition leaders and their other ranks are minnows by comparison. Their pathetic attempts at grandstanding for political gain on the matter expose them for what they are, namely, charlatans and base opportunists.

[Cabbie754]

How right you are.

 

Kenny MacAskill has been portrayed my many, who (in the event) are not fit to tie his shoe laces, as a man of straw. I listened to every word of his pronouncement and came to the conclusion that he is a man of strong unbending principle. I have never been more proud of being Scottish.

 

The opposition leaders and their other ranks are minnows by comparison. Their pathetic attempts at grandstanding for political gain on the matter expose them for what they are, namely, charlatans and base opportunists.

 

Well said billco98

[John Gentleman]

He said :- "Mr Magrahi now faces a sentence, imposed by a higher power".

 

To me that's God - of whichever religion you choose.

 

To me, I interpret this "higher power" to be natural physics/chemistry imposing its own laws, irrespective of the deeds of the individual.

[felix]

To me, I interpret this "higher power" to be natural physics/chemistry imposing its own laws, irrespective of the deeds of the individual.

 

..then he would have said : higher powers.

 

I think when Mr. MacAskill referred to:- a higher (singular) power..he was referring to God.

[Deek]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/8423117.stm

 

The condition of the terminally ill Lockerbie bomber has deteriorated, it has been confirmed.

 

Wouldnt it be Ironic if he died tomorrow. The 21st anniversary of the Pan Am Flight 103 bombing.

[Big D]

Why ironic? What did he have to do with the bombing?