Dusk_Till_Dawn Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 Scenario: Luke Mitchell, who is about to appeal his conviction is diagnosed with terminal cancer and has weeks to live Do you a) let him out becuase he's dying keep him in jail because he's a convicted murderer Meaningless comparison Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 Meaningless comparison answer the question then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billco98 Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 The same (Scottish) legal system that found him guilty agreed that there was sufficient new evidence/doubt over the conviction, that he should be allowed to apeal. Even if he was guilty (which I do not believe for a minute) how could we critisise him for showing a "lack of compassion", if as a society we show none either ? To my mind letting someone who is dying, out of jail to spend their last few days with their friends and family is the sort of behaviour which raises our society about the level of terrorists. I'm no bleeding hearted liberal, and for mass murder such as the bombing of the Pan-Am flight I'd like nothing more than to see ALL those involved up in court. I'd like to see those found guilty thrown in jail for life, and I'd like life to mean life, or at least within a few days of it. Well put, sir! I agree with every word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jam Tarts 1874 Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 If he dies in jail he will be seen as a martyr in Libya and the middle east in general and as such could potentially live forever in the minds of those who are anti-west. If he is released, there will be some propoganda etc, but it will all die down pretty quickly. Therefore from a political point of view, sending him back to Libya to die is the best option. Should a person who commits a single act in order to commit murder be treated differently depending on how many people are killed as a result of that one single act? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deesidejambo Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 I'm listening to it now. MacAskill sounds like he is addressing the haggis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Dover Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 He's expected to be heading for Glasgow airport within hours.................I hope John Smeaton's not on the day shift then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The People's Chimp Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 Bet you also hated the Shawshank Redemption ? I hate people who, by rote, trot it out as "their favourite film ever." As for this decision, to my mind it makes a mockery of the scottish legal system. McCaskill is a balloon and spent his 25 minute press conference trying to milk the world's limelight for all that it was worth. I cannot stand the man, and here he has, i think, made the wrong decision. Currently, Megrahi is guilty of an abhorrent crime - the murder of 270 people. He will remain so. And yet he is being released on compassionate grounds? Either he is guilty, and he should die in jail, or he is innocent, and should be freed. But to release him is to say that "we think he might not be guilty so we're letting him out just in case" and thus make a joke of the legal process which found him to be guilty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The People's Chimp Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 I'm listening to it now. MacAskill sounds like he is addressing the haggis. He does sound like a cross between a deranged kirk minister and the worst excesses of an snp burns night in allloway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Winstone Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 He does sound like a cross between a deranged kirk minister and the worst excesses of an snp burns night in allloway. Definitely sounded like an excentric minister addressing his worshipers. I particularly enjoyed when he had to pick up his water with two hands to stop people seeing how badly he was shaking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alwaysthereinspirit Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 He should die in jail or at least serve the 27 years minimum sentence. Lets see how people feel when he's on you tube getting a heroes welcome in Libya and still around 2 years from now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toggie88 Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 I hate people who, by rote, trot it out as "their favourite film ever." As for this decision, to my mind it makes a mockery of the scottish legal system. McCaskill is a balloon and spent his 25 minute press conference trying to milk the world's limelight for all that it was worth. I cannot stand the man, and here he has, i think, made the wrong decision. Currently, Megrahi is guilty of an abhorrent crime - the murder of 270 people. He will remain so. And yet he is being released on compassionate grounds? Either he is guilty, and he should die in jail, or he is innocent, and should be freed. But to release him is to say that "we think he might not be guilty so we're letting him out just in case" and thus make a joke of the legal process which found him to be guilty. How can it be making a mockery of the legal system when said system allows for compassionate release when the prisoner is terminally ill and estimated, by health experts, to have less than 3 months left? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toggie88 Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 "In Scotland, we are a people who pride ourselves on our humanity. It is viewed as a defining characteristic. The perpetration of an atrocity and outrage cannot and should not be a basis for losing sight of who we are, the values we seek to uphold, and the faith and beliefs by which we seek to live." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Dover Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 I hate people who, by rote, trot it out as "their favourite film ever." As for this decision, to my mind it makes a mockery of the scottish legal system. McCaskill is a balloon and spent his 25 minute press conference trying to milk the world's limelight for all that it was worth. I cannot stand the man, and here he has, i think, made the wrong decision. Currently, Megrahi is guilty of an abhorrent crime - the murder of 270 people. He will remain so. And yet he is being released on compassionate grounds? Either he is guilty, and he should die in jail, or he is innocent, and should be freed. But to release him is to say that "we think he might not be guilty so we're letting him out just in case" and thus make a joke of the legal process which found him to be guilty. McCaskill may be an erse, I don't know, however he was at pains to state, quite clearly, that due process had taken place ! Aye we all know this is a business deal in everything but name but I don't believe the justice system has been tainted any more than it was when finding him guilty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hickups Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 Well done to the Scottish Government for making the right decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alwaysthereinspirit Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 Well done to the Scottish Government for making the right decision. You seriously believe the "scottish" government made this decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toggie88 Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 You seriously believe the "scottish" government made this decision. Who was it then? The US Govt have been putting pressure on him staying in prison and the UK govt just pretended it wasn't happening. So clearly not either of those governments, the Libyans? Why would anyone in the Scottish Govt to what Libya, of all nations, tell them what to do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpikeDudley Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 He should have died in prison. Where was his compassion when he blew up all those innocent people on the plane? He is mass-murdering ****. And if he wasn't guilty at all, he shouldn't have been in jail in the first place, so using that as an excuse doesn't work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hickups Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 You seriously believe the "scottish" government made this decision. Obviously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Whittaker's Tache Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 The Libyan Authorities have made reassurances that the Lockerbie bomber would not be given a heroes welcome when he arrives at Al-Megrahi Airport later today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heartsfc_fan Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 He should have died in prison. Where was his compassion when he blew up all those innocent people on the plane? He is mass-murdering ****. And if he wasn't guilty at all, he shouldn't have been in jail in the first place, so using that as an excuse doesn't work. Agreed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I.J Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 I honestly couldn't give two ****s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Dover Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 He should have died in prison. Where was his compassion when he blew up all those innocent people on the plane? He is mass-murdering ****. And if he wasn't guilty at all, he shouldn't have been in jail in the first place, so using that as an excuse doesn't work. Will it really do any of the victims any good if he stays in Greenock jail for another 3-6 months ? And I hardly think he's giving the vickys to the western world if he's basically going home to die !' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dagger Is Back Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 I know it's all about opinions. I'm embarrssed tonight to be Scottish. I can't believe that balloon KM has let him go. Watching the 'celebrations' on TV tonight just turns my stomach. God knows what it feels to those who lost folks in Lockerbie. They should have let him rot away. Personally when he was found guilty I would have hung the ****er but given that we're too soft, he should have spent his last days in jail. Soft liberal ****ers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpikeDudley Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 Will it really do any of the victims any good if he stays in Greenock jail for another 3-6 months ?And I hardly think he's giving the vickys to the western world if he's basically going home to die !' You're right on both points but I just don't think he deserves to be treated with such compassion after what he did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markletissier Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 McCaskill - Resign now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Freewheelin' Jambo Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 Tonight I am truly ashamed to be a Scotsman. Listening to that sanctimonous, canting, third rate politico McCaskill was one of the truly most cringe inducing moments in Scotland's recent history. I have recently read a book by James Owen about the Nuremberg trials. The precedent was set there for collective moral responsibility. What would people think if at Nuremberg, no one was found guilty merely because they were "following orders" or had not personally pulled the trigger? That only Hitler could be tried? Megrahi was as guilty as Frank, Von Ribbentropp, Jodl, Keitel etc because he shared in the crime and actively took part in it. As for all this "evidence" that Megrahi was innocent, well shout loud enough, get enough people, and you can actually PROVE that Hitler had no knowledge of the Final Solution. His signature was on no document, he had visited no Camps and had pulled no trigger. This was a classic example of how decadent we in Scotland are as a nation. We think we are thumbing are noses at the Yanks, like some Mouse That Roared scenario. That we are "Morally" superior. Well, we are not. We have no death sentence. That is the only "Compassion" we should show to this criminal. We think we are socially minded and more progressive than anyone else, when the truth is we are just as nasty and cynical as everyone else. Abrogation of moral responsibility to punish perpretators of heinous crimes, that is what this pitiful, embarassing "government" have shown. In trying to gain political points to show that this SNP represent a potentially "Independant" people, we have shown what a pathetic lot we are. Bad day for Scotland. I wonder what our soldiers in Afghan think of this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosanostra Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 McCaskill - Resign now. Did you just watch that interview as well? My blood was boiling watching this arrogant, self-righteous little moron gobbing off like some sort of poet. He's an absolute clown and god only knows how much damage he's done to his party and Scotland's reputation. I can scarcely believe how much of an arsehole this guy actually is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rupert Pupkin Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 Just listenened to McCaskill onn the T.V. just now the man is an erse ,and just another in line wi the feck up that is the S.N.P. He cannot possibly justify what he has just done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcann_can Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 just watching this on newsnight now firmly believe that regardless of TI diagnosis the sentence was 27 years and should be served to term end or his life end Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cisc0 K1d Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 Don't really agree with a compassionate release, would rather see the truth come out but anyone who thinks there is not more to this is pretty naive. Still more questions than answers but interesting reading ? :- http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1249418663325&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Busby ! Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 From someone who has lived the tragedy every day since the bombing and thrown his life into pursuing the truth since then... Briton Jim Swire, whose daughter Flora also died on Flight 103, welcomed the Libyan's release, which he has long campaigned for, believing him to be innocent. "I think he should be able to go straight home to his family and spend his last days there," Swire told the BBC. MacAskill has done the right thing and has acquited himself well. This is the humane course of action. The thing that marks us out from the "vengence forever" mentality and that has got this world into hell of a mess over centuries. Jim Swire - someone whose depth of knowledge and personal grief exceeds everything that is being posted on this thread - agrees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 Don't really agree with a compassionate release, would rather see the truth come out but anyone who thinks there is not more to this is pretty naive. Still more questions than answers but interesting reading ? :- http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1249418663325&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull An Israeli journo suggesting it was Palestinians involved. I'm convinced!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
felix Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 I honestly couldn't give two ****s. Christ, no wonder you've got 5000 + posts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cabbie754 Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 There is a lot of things going on that we can only speculate. I reckon some sort of dirty deal was done years ago by Blair when he met Gadaffi. The Scottish Government were told to release Megrahi and had to find some way of at least making it look like they were in charge of the whole affair and it had nothing to do with the UK government. MacAskill was saying that it was his decision alone, I don't believe that. This decision was made by a dirty deal years ago and MacAskill was just having to carry out orders. The USA are hypocrites, on one hand they are condemning the decision by the Scottish Government but will be queuing up to make business deals with Libya after this decision and the UK will be there too. I wonder what concessions the Scottish Government got for 'doing the right thing' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cabbie754 Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 Oh by the way, I'm proud to be Scottish, this was a clever move by the Scottish Government and used the compassion rule to get out of a sticky mess that was none of their doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Busby ! Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 From todays Herald editorial: There is now no doubt that this man is dying of prostate cancer and best estimates suggest he has around three months to live. As Scottish Justice Secretary Kenny MacAskill observed in announcing his decision: "Mr Megrahi now faces a sentence that has been imposed by a higher power." He was right to observe that a terrorist's mercilessness in carrying out his crime is no reason to deny him compassion in his final days. The capacity to show mercy to the dying is a characteristic that distinguishes a civilised society from a barbaric one. Our judicial system is not based on the notion of "an eye for an eye" and the exercise of clemency in these circumstances demonstrates moral superiority. It is a sign of strength, not weakness, as some may construe it. Correct. WE are not a barbaric vengeful society. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toggie88 Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 From todays Herald editorial: There is now no doubt that this man is dying of prostate cancer and best estimates suggest he has around three months to live. As Scottish Justice Secretary Kenny MacAskill observed in announcing his decision: "Mr Megrahi now faces a sentence that has been imposed by a higher power." He was right to observe that a terrorist's mercilessness in carrying out his crime is no reason to deny him compassion in his final days. The capacity to show mercy to the dying is a characteristic that distinguishes a civilised society from a barbaric one. Our judicial system is not based on the notion of "an eye for an eye" and the exercise of clemency in these circumstances demonstrates moral superiority. It is a sign of strength, not weakness, as some may construe it. Correct. WE are not a barbaric vengeful society. Extremely insightful words from the Herald there, they've hit the nail right on the head. This was a very hard decision and views are bound to differ on the matter, I totally accept those who wished for him to remain in prison. In the end, I think it's a moral decision and one that doesn't have a clear right or wrong. I'm pleased however that Kenny MacAskill has not been pressurised on the issue by other, more powerful, people. I'm trully proud of this decision. It may have not been the best decision politically and it definately wasn't populist but at the end of day, I believe it to be the correct decision and I would've been ashamed had it went the other way purely for party politics. There's certain times that decisions have to me made, not in your personal interests but for what you simply believe is right. The only crime that was perpetrated tonight, in my eyes, was that complete shambles in Zagreb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlphonseCapone Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 How can any of us understand this unless we have had a family member/friend murdered? Some think he is innocent, some guilty. The fact is though he was convicted under our law. That means our law judged him to be the biggest mass murderer in not only Scotland, but the UK as a whole. Compassionate grounds? Is innocent people being murdered compassionate? Was there compassion for the parents who spend every single day thinking about their child who they outlived, surely a parents worst nightmare. To think releasing him makes us as a nation all holy and right is disgusting. So a paedophile who rapes a 4 year old child has one month to live, do we realise them? Someone who tortures and murders an elderly person is diagnosed with weeks to live, do we release them? The fact is, this decision has been made on political grounds. Our justice system is a joke as we now release evil people to be nice to them. A convicted murderer should remain in jail, as the law orginally saw fit, no exceptions. I am ashamed of Scotland's decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Busby ! Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 Lockerbie: Al Megrahi release welcomed by victims' relatives Published Date: 20 August 2009 TWO relatives of victims of the Lockerbie air disaster have welcomed the release of Abdel Basset al-Megrahi. Martin Cadman and Jim Swire both reiterated their view that the Libyan was not guilty of the atrocity. Martin Cadman, 84, who lives in Burnham Market, Norfolk and lost his son Bill, 32, in the bombing said the trial which convicted Al Megrahi was a "farce". "I'm very pleased he has been released on compassionate grounds because I don't think he was the right person to be there anyway. It is just righting a wrong. "Megrahi and Al Amin Khalifa Fhimah and others were accused together and Fhimah was not found guilty and Megrahi was, which didn't make sense. The trial was a farce. "I think he was innocent and he was not involved. "I don't believe he should have been in prison and I'm very pleased he will be back home with his family very soon." Jim Swire, who lost his 23-year-old daughter Flora, has been vocal about his belief of Megrahi's innocence and had misgivings about the trial. He said: "I don't believe for a moment that this man was involved in the way that he was found to have been involved. "I feel despondent that the west and Scotland didn't have the guts to allow this man's second appeal to continue because I am convinced had they done so it would have overturned the verdict against him. "It's a blow to those of us who seek the truth but it is not an ending. I think it is a splitting of the ways. "As time goes by it will become clear that he had nothing to do with it." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alwaysthereinspirit Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 He should die in jail or at least serve the 27 years minimum sentence.Lets see how people feel when he's on you tube getting a heroes welcome in Libya and still around 2 years from now. Worse than even I imagined. Heroes welcome and St Andrews crosses waving in the crowd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toggie88 Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 How can any of us understand this unless we have had a family member/friend murdered? Some think he is innocent, some guilty. The fact is though he was convicted under our law. That means our law judged him to be the biggest mass murderer in not only Scotland, but the UK as a whole. Compassionate grounds? Is innocent people being murdered compassionate? Was there compassion for the parents who spend every single day thinking about their child who they outlived, surely a parents worst nightmare. To think releasing him makes us as a nation all holy and right is disgusting. So a paedophile who rapes a 4 year old child has one month to live, do we realise them? Someone who tortures and murders an elderly person is diagnosed with weeks to live, do we release them? The fact is, this decision has been made on political grounds. Our justice system is a joke as we now release evil people to be nice to them. A convicted murderer should remain in jail, as the law orginally saw fit, no exceptions. I am ashamed of Scotland's decision. It's not as black and white as that. Yes he was convicted, it doesn't make him guilty of crime in practise. I'm not going to pretend to be an expert on the case, it would just be insulting to all those involved if I did. I am willing to accept the view of those who sat through the ins and outs of the trial though - I can't imagine what it must be like to have a lost a loved one in the tragedy, but to me Dr Jim Swire, a man who sat through everyday of the trial and lost his daughter, coming out and protesting for the man's release speaks volumes. I just hope, that if Megrahi is innocent, as a hell of people believe, that we find the true perpitraitors and they are punished with the full might of the law, be it Scots, English, US or any other for that matter. For me though, two wrongs don't make a right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gasman Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 For what it's worth, in my opinion, Scotland did the right thing here, and that's something to be proud of. There is a difference between "justice" and "vengance" There is a difference between "compassion" and "cowardice" Scotland have recognised that to keep a dying man in jail does not further the cause of justice, it would only serve to lower society to the very level of those we criticise for their lack of compassion. Hillary Clinton and Barac Obama "try" to critisise Scotland for this, but who did they jail for the shooting down of the Iranian Airliner that started this whole sorry sage ? Despite knowing exactly what happened, despite their warship being (ilegaly) in Iranian waters, despite the other American warships identifying it as civillian airliner on a scheduled flight down a recognised air corridor and using the correct transponder, and despite knowing who on board the warship gave the order, and who pulled the trigger.... Nothing. America have never admitted liabilty for this. Not a single American service man or woman (or their Commander in Chief) has ever been charged with any criminal offence, or spent any time in a military or civillian jail. The only circumstantial evidence (there was absolutely no physical evidence) linking al-Megrahi to the bombing was an "eye witness". This was a shopkeeper in Malta who had given the investigators a description of a customer he served several years before. Unfortuneatly the description was not of al-Megrahi, and bore no resemblance to him at all, but this was just a minor setback. The Shopkeeper had seen and been shown numerous photos and video clips of al-Megrahi before, years later, he was asked to pick him out a line up, which he then did. Our compliant little Malteese shopkeeper was then given $2,000,000 "compensation" and him and his family relocated to Austrailia, by greatful American security forces. Justice ? They don't know the meaning of the word ! A dying man has been released from prison on compassionate grounds, I'm comfortable with that. His apeal will now never be heard, and many governments and politicians will breath a hugh sigh of relief. No embarasing questions, no trying to defend the indefensible, and in some cases they will literaly have got away with murder. That can't be right ? Anyone interested in the whole Lockerbie Bombing tradgedy, the events that led up to it, and the events that followed it will need to do a bit of investigation to get at the full story. A good starting point is an article by journalist Paul Foot. Well done Scotland, Fek Off Westminster & Washington ! Rant over (for now at least!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polwarthjambo Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 What was embarrasing for me was that we sent Megrahi home in a white shell suit and baseball cap like a wee weegie ned, all that was missing was a bottle of buckie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Dover Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 Re. Dr Swire. Agreed If it's good enough for him, a man who lost a daughter and who knows probably as much as any ( civilian ) about this event, then it's certainly good enough for me. One thing that is really getting my back up though, is the ferocity of the comments coming from the likes of Hilary Clinton and Barack Obama. Bereaved mothers and fathers I can understand, as they just want something tangible to vent their anger on. Yes we know they have to give lip service to the American voters but they have gone way over the top here IMO. Especially talking about being disappointed that his appeal was dropped when we know full well they are sh*tting it that a re-trial should ever come to pass and the TRUTH be finally unearthed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alwaysthereinspirit Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 Living over here I watched quite a few shows last night. One show interviewed a guy who had a brother on the flight. He had come to Scotland and met with McCaskill as part of a delegation of victims families. Dont think he was overly impressed with him. He also noted that according to Scottish prison records, 60 prisoners die in Scottish prisons every year. Most from inoperable diseases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peebo Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 My thinking is pretty conflicted on the whole case, but, as usual, the Daily Mash sums it up nicely: http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/business/yorkshire-ripper-to-dig-for-oil-200908201999/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peebo Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 I wonder what our soldiers in Afghan think of this. Rather than thinking about Al Megrahi, many of them are probably too busy wondering why they are putting their lives at risk to defend democracies that come up with decisions like this... http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/asia/article6798358.ece Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Dover Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 The view of a high-ranking international independant legal observer present at the trial. Dr. Hans Kochler was nominated by former UN Secretary-General Kofi Annan to be an observer during the court proceedings. http://i-p-o.org/lockerbie-report.htm Its a perfectly readable document for most of us non-legal types... amongst many of the points he makes... "It was a consistent pattern during the whole trial that − as an apparent result of political interests and considerations − efforts were undertaken to withhold substantial information from the Court. ... As a result of this situation, the undersigned has reached the conclusion that foreign governments or (secret) governmental agencies may have been allowed, albeit indirectly, to determine, to a considerable extent, which evidence was made available to the Court...The Opinion of the Court is exclusively based on circumstantial evidence and on a series of highly problematic inferences. As to the undersigned's knowledge, there is not one single piece of material evidence linking the two accused to the crime. In such a context, the guilty verdict in regard to the first accused appears to be arbitrary, even irrational. " Just read that whole article Drew and I feel the need to quote Woody Allen - "This trial is a travesty. It's a travesty of a mockery of a sham of a mockery of a travesty of two mockeries of a sham" No wonder I take strong drink. What an absolute disgrace. They'd have been better off sitting before friggin Judge Roy Bean I've off for a beer before I explode !!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Private Hudson Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 For what it's worth, in my opinion, Scotland did the right thing here, and that's something to be proud of. There is a difference between "justice" and "vengance" There is a difference between "compassion" and "cowardice" Scotland have recognised that to keep a dying man in jail does not further the cause of justice, it would only serve to lower society to the very level of those we criticise for their lack of compassion. Hillary Clinton and Barac Obama "try" to critisise Scotland for this, but who did they jail for the shooting down of the Iranian Airliner that started this whole sorry sage ? Despite knowing exactly what happened, despite their warship being (ilegaly) in Iranian waters, despite the other American warships identifying it as civillian airliner on a scheduled flight down a recognised air corridor and using the correct transponder, and despite knowing who on board the warship gave the order, and who pulled the trigger.... Nothing. America have never admitted liabilty for this. Not a single American service man or woman (or their Commander in Chief) has ever been charged with any criminal offence, or spent any time in a military or civillian jail. The only circumstantial evidence (there was absolutely no physical evidence) linking al-Megrahi to the bombing was an "eye witness". This was a shopkeeper in Malta who had given the investigators a description of a customer he served several years before. Unfortuneatly the description was not of al-Megrahi, and bore no resemblance to him at all, but this was just a minor setback. The Shopkeeper had seen and been shown numerous photos and video clips of al-Megrahi before, years later, he was asked to pick him out a line up, which he then did. Our compliant little Malteese shopkeeper was then given $2,000,000 "compensation" and him and his family relocated to Austrailia, by greatful American security forces. Justice ? They don't know the meaning of the word ! A dying man has been released from prison on compassionate grounds, I'm comfortable with that. His apeal will now never be heard, and many governments and politicians will breath a hugh sigh of relief. No embarasing questions, no trying to defend the indefensible, and in some cases they will literaly have got away with murder. That can't be right ? Anyone interested in the whole Lockerbie Bombing tradgedy, the events that led up to it, and the events that followed it will need to do a bit of investigation to get at the full story. A good starting point is an article by journalist Paul Foot. Well done Scotland, Fek Off Westminster & Washington ! Rant over (for now at least!) Best post on this depressing thread. As usual a lot of people on here flapping their gums about something they know heehaw about save what the right wing gutter press tell them they should be thinking. Provincial, backwater, ill-informed, kneejerk pi sh at it's finest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Busby ! Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 Best post on this depressing thread. As usual a lot of people on here flapping their gums about something they know heehaw about save what the right wing gutter press tell them they should be thinking. Provincial, backwater, ill-informed, kneejerk pi sh at it's finest. Heres a direct quote after the US downed that Iranian passenger aircraft, killing 290 civilians. Vice President George H. W. Bush (later President of United States of America) declared a month later,"I will never apologize for the United States of America, ever. I don't care what the facts are." Newsweek, August 15, 1988 Says it all about the US worldview, then and now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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