VLAD SIGNINGS oR CSABAS REALLY ****ED OFF DONT YOU KNOW

[fc-1874]

We have an irritating number of fans both on KB and who frequent Tynecastle who are far too quick to critisise and attempt to lay blame somewhere when things go wrong. They seem to have a similar attitude to Rangers fans in that they expect us to win every game and when we don't everyone at the club is open to abuse. We've won 15 trophies in our entire 135 year history, we've failed to make it into Europe more often than not and yet some of our supporters genuinely seem to expect us to win 30 league games a season. When we draw somewhere like New Douglas Park or lose at Rugby Park the overreaction is astonishing - these are not unusual results for us, yet every time its treated like its the first time we've ever dropped points to that team.

 

People who pay their money or are members of this forum are obviously fully entitled to air their opinion, but I really don't see any point whatsoever on getting on people's backs and sensationalising things, like calling injured players "wage thiefs". Slagging players off for one poor performance like gets done on here is ridiculous; Obua has been proving people wrong, Zal has been proving people wrong, heck even Clum had people doubting his inability for a while, and yet people are still jumping on players backs, even in pre season with new signings who haven't played a single competitive game for us. Ultimately there is nothing constructive in coming on here or shouting at Tynie that xxxxx is gash.

 

Vlad saved Tynecastle and invested heavily in the team but he also pi55ed around with the management of the team so he's not all bad but he's not all good either. And yet if you read some posts on here you'd think he'd killed some babies.

 

It is my opinion that we have an overly negative support, and when this negativity is voiced at the games is detrimental to the team. I don't think anyone can argue that it helps guys like Clum to have 1000 people screaming abuse at him everytime he takes a less than 100% perfect touch. Just my opinion mind.

That is common sense

[Guest JamboRobbo]

Either you accept that you shouldn't use the phrase or you don't. If you do, stop making excuses for it.

 

Ditto to yourself re the phrase you used, and the excuses you used for it.

 

Ditto to the people using phrases like Pyramid of Pish to refer to a group of Hearts supporters, and whatever excuse they think they have for using that.

[shaun.lawson]

Ditto to yourself re the phrase you used, and the excuses you used for it.

 

Ditto to the people using phrases like Pyramid of Pish to refer to a group of Hearts supporters, and whatever excuse they think they have for using that.

 

Yes - but JR, what's the point of forever going round and round in circles like this, just so someone can have the last word? I don't blame any poster or any 'group' more than anyone else: the problem is that we seem to have these daft groups in the first place!

 

It's not just that many posters have entrenched positions on the club; it's that they also seem to have entrenched positions on each other. You can pretty much predict who's going to post on any particular thread, and who's going to respond to them. Seriously, what is the point? This board should be about HMFC, and not individual posters, shouldn't it?

 

And the thing is, that in turn prevents any kind of serious debate on the club, the future and so on, which is a huge pity. These constant handbags must drive many Kickbackers (many of whom don't post much, and log on for news about the club we all love) completely crazy, and we all need to look at ourselves I'd say. I'm sure you have some or even many positive views about the team, the manager and so on - yet because you express them so rarely, you get labelled, and always end up in these arguments.

 

If you know how others are going to react (and frankly, you must by now), why give them the ammunition?

[bighalders]

I don't recall you wallowing in your own negativity or engaging in personal feuds with others. What could possibly make you think I was talking about you?

 

 

I never even considered you were talking about me, I don't take stuff on message boards personally, I was just making a point generally

[Guest JamboRobbo]

Yes - but JR, what's the point of forever going round and round in circles like this, just so someone can have the last word? I don't blame any poster or any 'group' more than anyone else: the problem is that we seem to have these daft groups in the first place!

 

It's not just that many posters have entrenched positions on the club; it's that they also seem to have entrenched positions on each other. You can pretty much predict who's going to post on any particular thread, and who's going to respond to them. Seriously, what is the point? This board should be about HMFC, and not individual posters, shouldn't it?

 

Yes, and I try to turn the other cheek whenever I can, but that can only be done so often in the face of dig after dig after dig.

 

As usual, I'm the one sitting here discussing it rationally with you, whilst others who are just as heavily involved are saying nothing and pretending it's nothing to do with them.

 

And the thing is, that in turn prevents any kind of serious debate on the club, the future and so on, which is a huge pity. These constant handbags must drive many Kickbackers (many of whom don't post much, and log on for news about the club we all love) completely crazy, and we all need to look at ourselves I'd say. I'm sure you have some or even many positive views about the team, the manager and so on - yet because you express them so rarely, you get labelled, and always end up in these arguments.

 

Agree, being labelled, and having every word you say picked apart, leaves people backed into a corner.

 

If you know how others are going to react (and frankly, you must by now), why give them the ammunition?

 

I only ever give my opinion on HMFC Shaun. I'll happily explain where I'm coming from on anything, if asked in a reasonable way, not attacked. If I get attacked for expressing my opinion (e.g. being told Im less of a Hearts supporter than others, or being called "Pyramid of Pish" or whatever other insult is in vogue that day), then I'll stick up for myself. Nothing more, nothing less.

[Jammy T]

Ditto to yourself re the phrase you used, and the excuses you used for it.

 

Ditto to the people using phrases like Pyramid of Pish to refer to a group of Hearts supporters, and whatever excuse they think they have for using that.

 

Its interesting though - when I made a "pejorative" reference - Vladgimps - the Moderators on here were all over me....

[shaun.lawson]

Yes, and I try to turn the other cheek whenever I can, but that can only be done so often in the face of dig after dig after dig.

 

As usual, I'm the one sitting here discussing it rationally with you, whilst others who are just as heavily involved are saying nothing and pretending it's nothing to do with them.

 

Agree, being labelled, and having every word you say picked apart, leaves people backed into a corner.

 

I only ever give my opinion on HMFC Shaun. I'll happily explain where I'm coming from on anything, if asked in a reasonable way, not attacked. If I get attacked for expressing my opinion (e.g. being told Im less of a Hearts supporter than others, or being called "Pyramid of Pish" or whatever other insult is in vogue that day), then I'll stick up for myself. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

I've never questioned your integrity, JR - not for a moment. But when it goes beyond banter and humour, good Hearts fans attacking other good Hearts fans on here saddens me, and is a waste of everyone's time. If you feel labelled, all you have to do is look at your actions and modify them at times: I've been labelled too in the past, but had a look in the mirror and, I hope, learned something.

 

Because the thing about labels is, however unfair they can be, they almost always have their genesis in at least a grain (and frequently more) of truth. Laugh at yourself at times, mate: no need to take it all so seriously, or treat each debate like it's a question of personal honour. If you do that, in time, you probably won't feel so backed into a corner - and if it still goes on, just stop posting on the thread and start with another! We all have to at times.

 

PS. Same advice to the poster above this one.

[Guest JamboRobbo]

PS. Same advice to the poster above this one.

 

It's all fair comment Shaun, but it also applies to A LOT of other posters.

 

Look at this thread itself ffs. Purely taking the **** out of people for having an opinion (not liking Vlad). Now I know WK, and I've not reacted to it cause I know he wasn't having a go at me, but if you're wanting to dish out advice to people for saying things they probably know they shouldn't on here, then it's gonna take you a long long time to get round all the posters who indulge.

[shaun.lawson]

It's all fair comment Shaun, but it also applies to A LOT of other posters.

 

Look at this thread itself ffs. Purely taking the **** out of people for having an opinion (not liking Vlad). Now I know WK, and I've not reacted to it cause I know he wasn't having a go at me, but if you're wanting to dish out advice to people for saying things they probably know they shouldn't on here, then it's gonna take you a long long time to get round all the posters who indulge.

 

But WK and Uly were both on to something: they just expressed it differently. We're all responsible for the pantomime on here; it's up to all of us to look at ourselves and judge if our posts are making the board better or worse for others. Simple netiquette, really.

[Guest JamboRobbo]

But WK and Uly were both on to something: they just expressed it differently.

 

Onto What exactly?

 

WK posted taking the **** out of people who criticise Vlad, putting in spelling mistakes, small/capitals mixed up etc to imply they were so stupid they can't even spell his name properly or put capitals in the right place.

 

Ulysess suggested there are people on here who are so busy wallowing in their own negativity they are less of a Hearts supporter.

 

As one who is labelled as "negative" on here, that comes accross as a massive dig at me.

 

Rather than being "on to something", they were indulging in exactly the thing I think you are suggesting they were on to.

 

We're all responsible for the pantomime on here; it's up to all of us to look at ourselves and judge if our posts are making the board better or worse for others. Simple netiquette, really.

 

Yep. ALL of us. Not just me. Not just JammyT. ALL of us.

 

So if you want to have a word with folks and dish out advice, then you should be having a word with a lot more than just me.

[Gigolo-Aunt]

TBF, cant see a lot of wrong in what JR is posting.

[shaun.lawson]

Onto What exactly?

 

WK posted taking the **** out of people who criticise Vlad, putting in spelling mistakes, small/capitals mixed up etc to imply they were so stupid they can't even spell his name properly or put capitals in the right place.

 

Ulysess suggested there are people on here who are so busy wallowing in their own negativity they are less of a Hearts supporter.

 

As one who is labelled as "negative" on here, that comes accross as a massive dig at me.

 

Rather than being "on to something", they were indulging in exactly the thing I think you are suggesting they were on to.

 

Yep. ALL of us. Not just me. Not just JammyT. ALL of us.

 

But unable to control what others do, the best place to start is with ourselves, wouldn't you say? And sorry, but nowhere did Uly say anyone was less of a Hearts supporter: he said posters on here were apparently more concerned with wallowing in their own negativity than supporting (and hence, talking about) the team. Because that's how it frequently appears.

 

Think about how you come across: I had to, and still do. And keep in mind the old maxim: it's OK to visit Pity City, but you can't live there.

 

A new season starts in nine days. Tomorrow, we discover our opponents in Yoorup! Dunno about you, but I'm excited - so why are we still having these daft rows?

[Erik]

Get the violins oot.

[shaun.lawson]

TBF, cant see a lot of wrong in what JR is posting.

 

There isn't a lot wrong in what he's saying as such. There is something wrong in the labelling and silly feuds we all indulge in on here.

[Drylaw Hearts]

so why are we still having these daft rows?

 

Why don't you ask the OP ?

[Jammy T]

 

PS. Same advice to the poster above this one.

 

I think you mistake me for someone that takes this board too seriously

 

Volume of posts and particular prose shouldnt be mistaken for that. Simply a sign of being in a gash job, in respect of which I am now working my notice.

 

You are right in a lot of what you say, but you are wrong to be aiming it primarily at JR. There are two sides to this coin. Mind you, in my opinion if you tried to address your points to the other side of this coin you'd likely only get abuse back

 

Its only human nature - I get it - but for people to be up in arms at folks who, in their view, are constantly negative is one thing. But if such a mentality is acceptable then it is equally acceptable to counter those who are glibly optimistic at all times.

 

Equally there are plenty folks on here who have taken either me or JR to task when "labelling" other fans, but there has been a wholescale "riot" of labelling the other way recently - and silence.

 

And yes I get it - moan moan moan. But there are 2 sets of moaners on here at present. One set is, for the majority of the time at least, at least moaning about football and adminstrative issues at Hearts, the other set are moaning more about individual posters constantly moaning

 

And thats the nonsense, and thats what hijacks threads, and that's what causes aggro.

 

IMO

[Guest JamboRobbo]

But unable to control what others do, the best place to start is with ourselves, wouldn't you say? And sorry, but nowhere did Uly say anyone was less of a Hearts supporter: he said posters on here were apparently more concerned with wallowing in their own negativity than supporting (and hence, talking about) the team. Because that's how it frequently appears.

 

We'll have to agree to differ on that. As one who's branded negative on here every day, I took that as a slight, whether intended or not. I can't see any other reason to say it.

 

I manage to support the team perfectly well, despite my supposed negativity, and I don't need people telling me I'm not supporting the team properly.

 

Dunno about you, but I'm excited - so why are we still having these daft rows?

 

I thought we were having a rational discussion, not a row?

[Guest JamboRobbo]

There are two sides to this coin. Mind you, in my opinion if you tried to address it to the other side of this coin you'd likely only get abuse back

 

Nail, hit, head.

[shaun.lawson]

Why don't you ask the OP ?

 

Which was in response to something else. Which in turn was in response to something else. Which was... etc etc etc.

 

It's boring, man! Boring. Round and round we go again, on loads of different threads. The record needs changing for everyone's sake.

[Gigolo-Aunt]

There isn't a lot wrong in what he's saying as such. There is something wrong in the labelling and silly feuds we all indulge in on here.

 

Life is full of labels, Shaun - its not exclusive only to kickback.

 

Pretty deep stuff for 10am in the morning.

[Say What Again]

TBF, cant see a lot of wrong in what JR is posting.

 

Was thinking the same thing reading through his later posts on this thread

[shaun.lawson]

I think you mistake me for someone that takes this board too seriously

 

Volume of posts and particular prose shouldnt be mistaken for that. Simply a sign of being in a gash job, in respect of which I am now working my notice.

 

You are right in a lot of what you say, but you are wrong to be aiming it primarily at JR. There are two sides to this coin. Mind you, in my opinion if you tried to address your points to the other side of this coin you'd likely only get abuse back

 

Its only human nature - I get it - but for people to be up in arms at folks who, in their view, are constantly negative is one thing. But if such a mentality is acceptable then it is equally acceptable to counter those who are glibly optimistic at all times.

 

Equally there are plenty folks on here who have taken either me or JR to task when "labelling" other fans, but there has been a wholescale "riot" of labelling the other way recently - and silence.

 

And yes I get it - moan moan moan. But there are 2 sets of moaners on here at present. One set is, for the majority of the time at least, at least moaning about football and adminstrative issues at Hearts, the other set are moaning more about individual posters constantly moaning

 

And thats the nonsense, and thats what hijacks threads, and that's what causes aggro.

 

IMO

 

Jammy - do you have any positive views on Hearts? You must do to some degree. Yet do you ever express any of them? If not, why? And do you actually enjoy playing this role? I didn't think that until earlier today - then saw something you posted on the Vlad speaks to the Record thread, and wondered...

[Erik]

See if its really boring you so much Shaun...... you don't actually HAVE to reply to it ya know.

 

Best way for something to drop off the first page and off the radar so to speak is just to let it lie.

 

Maybe take some of your own advice.

[shaun.lawson]

Life is full of labels, Shaun - its not exclusive only to kickback.

 

Pretty deep stuff for 10am in the morning.

 

You know me!

[Walter Kidd]

Why don't you ask the OP ?

 

Mods can we put this to bed please. I promise not to post pointless and rather silly polls when I've imbibed too much Stella Artois in the future I promise.

Mr Drylaw in answer to your post, I thought we had sorted this yesterday. Obviously not in your mind though.

 

Have a nice day everyone. Sun is shining. I love my family. Europa League draw is a coming.

 

Feed the World. Make Poverty History. Cheaper Stella Now.

[Erik]

Jammy - do you have any positive views on Hearts? You must do to some degree. Yet do you ever express any of them? If not, why? And do you actually enjoy playing this role? I didn't think that until earlier today - then saw something you posted on the Vlad speaks to the Record thread, and wondered...

 

But you see, thats life Shaun.

 

Very rarely do folk ever review the positives.

 

If you went to a shop and bought a CD (or any other product) and got positive service during the experience, would you be as likely to go and shout it from the rooftops as you would be if you'd gotten god awful service during the experience? Doubtful.

 

Just because folk don't express their "positivity"..... doesnt mean its not there.

[Jammy T]

Jammy - do you have any positive views on Hearts? You must do to some degree. Yet do you ever express any of them? If not, why? And do you actually enjoy playing this role? I didn't think that until earlier today - then saw something you posted on the Vlad speaks to the Record thread, and wondered...

 

I've been largely positive all summer

 

But then that goes unnoticed - as you have proven - because I am labelled, even subconsciously by you, it seems...

 

The Vlad Record thread? Its a hit and run comment, so what? Having read all the gash on here over the past week I've taken the opportunity to have a pop at Vlad where he was quite clearly and provably wrong. Its on the topic of the thread and it doesnt have a go at any JKB member

[Say What Again]

Europa League draw is a coming.

 

[Drylaw Hearts]

Mods can we put this to bed please. I promise not to post pointless and rather silly polls when I've imbibed too much Stella Artois in the future I promise.

Mr Drylaw in answer to your post, I thought we had sorted this yesterday. Obviously not in your mind though.

 

Have a nice day everyone. Sun is shining. I love my family. Europa League draw is a coming.

 

Feed the World. Make Poverty History. Cheaper Stella Now.

 

We have sorted it out WK.

 

As for your Stella comment....

 

I agree.

[shaun.lawson]

But you see, thats life Shaun.

 

Very rarely do folk ever review the positives.

 

If you went to a shop and bought a CD (or any other product) and got positive service during the experience, would you be as likely to go and shout it from the rooftops as you would be if you'd gotten god awful service during the experience? Doubtful.

 

Just because folk don't express their "positivity"..... doesnt mean its not there.

 

Sure. I just know from others that the constant back and forth on here is getting them down. So in classic Shaun style, I started out trying to take a moderate position - and ended up in the middle between two concentric circles. Story of my life...

 

And if that feuding is stopping open, good debate on the club, well... But that's all for now.

[Jammy T]

By way of summary

 

- I have confirmed I viewed last season as a big stepping stone forward, but that it needs to be built on

- I have confirmed pleasure at the way the transfer market started with apparent thought going into the signings and getting them in in advance

- I have confirmed that the alleged call-off of the stand development is good news, however it was arrived at

- whilst having concerns at the flexibility of Csaba and his signings, I have backed him as the man that is giving the Hearts managers job credibility back

 

But when you hear that Csaba has openly moaned his mouth off about feeling his hands are tied etc etc I'm sorry, I fail to see why I should be criticised for thinking this to be a negative point.

 

Sorry

[Walter Kidd]

We have sorted it out WK.

 

As for your Stella comment....

 

I agree.

 

I hope you mean the cheaper one or you will have cut me to the bone....

 

[Budgie.]

As usual, I'm the one sitting here discussing it rationally with you, whilst others who are just as heavily involved are saying nothing and pretending it's nothing to do with them.

 

 

I suppose I fall into the bracket Shaun is referring to so here's my tuppence worth...

 

1. I don't have a personal problem with the likes of JR, DH, JammyT etc. I can't recall ever having called them less of a fan just because I feel they take a negative view of things. Like someone else said, the fact that they have felt very angered by what they fell Vlad has done to the club but they are still here supporting it and paying their money shows they love it as much as anyone.

 

2. I don't go looking for certain posters and try and start arguments. I take every issue surrounding Hearts and deal with it individually. I have had a large amount of 'debate' with DH, JR, JammyT etc. about the issue of Vlad's interference and the lack of evidence but at the same time I've also posted compliments to DH, I've agreed with and posted in support of JR on other issues such as needing a striker etc.

 

3. I feel that one poster who does go around dropping in tidbits of venom directed at Vlad and anyone who feels positively towards him is JammyT. He has posted on this debate so I am entitled by KB rules to discuss him. A quick look at his last few posts shows an intent to stir up an argument. Posts he has made on threads which aren't related to the Vlad debate, cheap digs for whatever reason...

 

were this to be true (eg its a positive rumour without any substantiation therefore its ok to discuss and not lay in to the OP) there's a fair chance this would be an English based player. It seems to me most mainland euro players are whisked to Kaunas, and there would be no need for a Scottish based player to set up a room with his agent (well.....)

 

....unless Romanov is due in town

 

This thread was about rooms being booked for a player and agent who are due to arrive over the next 48 hours allegedly yet JT couldn't let old issues lie and had to get his dig in.

 

 

You are right in a lot of what you say, but you are wrong to be aiming it primarily at JR. There are two sides to this coin. Mind you, in my opinion if you tried to address your points to the other side of this coin you'd likely only get abuse back

 

 

and again, unnecessary.

 

If there were less of these little digs then KB would be a much less venomous place to be.

 

4. I hold my hands up and admit that I have been too fierce in my arguing on the Vlad issue. When debating with JR the other day, I was overly aggressive and said a few things which I shouldn't. I took it from a football debate into something else and that was wrong. I hope you can accept my apology, JR. I hope anyone offended or bored by it accepts my apology too.

 

From now on I am willing to try and be a bit more restrained in what I post. I will still challenge someone if I see them posting something as fact which has no evidence but I will try and conduct myself in a more mature manner.

 

This 'pyramid of pish' and labelling nonsense really has to stop now and while I do realise a lot of it is tongue and cheek it can't be healthy for the unity of our support to be labelling each other into factions. I'd even go as far as saying that labelling posters into factions should carry a points warning from the Mods.

[The Merse]

Sure. I just know from others that the constant back and forth on here is getting them down. So in classic Shaun style, I started out trying to take a moderate position - and ended up in the middle between two concentric circles. Story of my life...

 

And if that feuding is stopping open, good debate on the club, well... But that's all for now.

 

The feuding is pathetic though, and I'll tell you what it's caused by, is the people who respond to threads and put a sarcastically negative spin on it even when they don't mean it just to rile any of the posters who are perceived as negative before the perceived negative posters even get to put their opinion on the matter.

 

THAT is what caused the arguments and turns even positive threads into the same tired old arguments - which wouldn't have even come about had it not been for the sarcasm and mocking.

 

So even good news threads have arguments caused right from the off from these oh so humorous posters and lead us down the same road over and over and over again.

[Guest Dipped Flake]

It's threads like these that makes it more and more of a chore to even read this board anymore. Page after page of attacks against other posters with the same old boring arguments from the same old posters on both sides with nothing ever changing

[Guest JamboRobbo]

I hold my hands up and admit that I have been too fierce in my arguing on the Vlad issue. When debating with JR the other day, I was overly aggressive and said a few things which I shouldn't. I took it from a football debate into something else and that was wrong. I hope you can accept my apology, JR.

 

Very big of you to do that, apology accepted, and apologies from me for things I said on that thread and this thread, taking things too far also.

 

It's only cause I care so much about HMFC that I get frustrated with things and argue and argue and argue over it.

 

It's fair enough to challenge people for criticising the club etc, but hopefully you'll see that I only posted what I posted, cause I care. I was (and am) certain that the info was true, and that it had come from the horses mouth. If I wasn't so sure, I wouldn't have said it. I accept that others like yourself don't have that certainty of the source, so its fair enough to question, but I do, so hopefully that explains where I was coming from a little at least.

 

[Jammy T]

I suppose I fall into the bracket Shaun is referring to so here's my tuppence worth...

 

1. I don't have a personal problem with the likes of JR, DH, JammyT etc. I can't recall ever having called them less of a fan just because I feel they take a negative view of things. Like someone else said, the fact that they have felt very angered by what they fell Vlad has done to the club but they are still here supporting it and paying their money shows they love it as much as anyone.

 

2. I don't go looking for certain posters and try and start arguments. I take every issue surrounding Hearts and deal with it individually. I have had a large amount of 'debate' with DH, JR, JammyT etc. about the issue of Vlad's interference and the lack of evidence but at the same time I've also posted compliments to DH, I've agreed with and posted in support of JR on other issues such as needing a striker etc.

 

3. I feel that one poster who does go around dropping in tidbits of venom directed at Vlad and anyone who feels positively towards him is JammyT. He has posted on this debate so I am entitled by KB rules to discuss him. A quick look at his last few posts shows an intent to stir up an argument. Posts he has made on threads which aren't related to the Vlad debate, cheap digs for whatever reason...

 

 

 

This thread was about rooms being booked for a player and agent who are due to arrive over the next 48 hours allegedly yet JT couldn't let old issues lie and had to get his dig in.

 

If there were less of these little digs then KB would be a much less venomous place to be.

 

4. I hold my hands up and admit that I have been too fierce in my arguing on the Vlad issue. When debating with JR the other day, I was overly aggressive and said a few things which I shouldn't. I took it from a football debate into something else and that was wrong. I hope you can accept my apology, JR. I hope anyone offended or bored by it accepts my apology too.

 

From now on I am willing to try and be a bit more restrained in what I post. I will still challenge someone if I see them posting something as fact which has no evidence but I will try and conduct myself in a more mature manner.

 

This 'pyramid of pish' and labelling nonsense really has to stop now and while I do realise a lot of it is tongue and cheek it can't be healthy for the unity of our support to be labelling each other into factions. I'd even go as far as saying that labelling posters into factions should carry a points warning from the Mods.

 

Its funny though - you seem to have had big bust ups with JR and another member of PoP, but not me. I have always considered you to be very fair in your responses on my thoughts.

 

In respect of your debates with me you have highlighted how this board should work

 

The thread you refer to. Its a bone of contention with me. A positive rumour arises on here, whether from the Sun or from an un-named source and we are free to run with it. A negative rumour arises, from whatever source, and people are rounded upon if they discuss it.

 

Thats not a dig at Vlad, its a dig at hypocrisy. Its not a dig at any individual its a dig at how the board manifests itself.

 

And I'm sorry but those that moan at the usual suspects do not accept they are part of the problem. Its not a dig its an opinion I think has some substance.

 

I think you are wrong to say that I am venomous against anyone that is positive about Vlad. I might be venomous about the points they raise, and I might fire off some "flowery" language.

 

If you had a truely neutral eye I think you would see that more venom is directed towards me, than flows the other way. Its fine though, that's life, I like getting my teeth stuck into a debate and I feel the way I feel.

[Jammy T]

The feuding is pathetic though, and I'll tell you what it's caused by, is the people who respond to threads and put a sarcastically negative spin on it even when they don't mean it just to rile any of the posters who are perceived as negative before the perceived negative posters even get to put their opinion on the matter.

 

THAT is what caused the arguments and turns even positive threads into the same tired old arguments - which wouldn't have even come about had it not been for the sarcasm and mocking.

 

So even good news threads have arguments caused right from the off from these oh so humorous posters and lead us down the same road over and over and over again.

 

Correct

[Budgie.]

Its funny though - you seem to have had big bust ups with JR and another member of PoP, but not me. I have always considered you to be very fair in your responses on my thoughts.

 

In respect of your debates with me you have highlighted how this board should work

 

The thread you refer to. Its a bone of contention with me. A positive rumour arises on here, whether from the Sun or from an un-named source and we are free to run with it. A negative rumour arises, from whatever source, and people are rounded upon if they discuss it.

 

Thats not a dig at Vlad, its a dig at hypocrisy. Its not a dig at any individual its a dig at how the board manifests itself.

 

And I'm sorry but those that moan at the usual suspects do not accept they are part of the problem. Its not a dig its an opinion I think has some substance.

 

I think you are wrong to say that I am venomous against anyone that is positive about Vlad. I might be venomous about the points they raise, and I might fire off some "flowery" language.

 

If you had a truely neutral eye I think you would see that more venom is directed towards me, than flows the other way. Its fine though, that's life, I like getting my teeth stuck into a debate and I feel the way I feel.

 

To be fair, you make good points here Jammy. I have seen you take a lot of venom in your direction too.

 

Like I said earlier, I am guilty of some unacceptable comments too.

 

Hopefully, this thread can be something good for most of us in that we have shared our thoughts on the arguing honestly and without any anger and can hopefully move forward.

 

I apologise for singling you out, with hindsight it wasn't conducive to what we are trying to achieve here.

[Jammy T]

To be fair, you make good points here Jammy. I have seen you take a lot of venom in your direction too.

 

Like I said earlier, I am guilty of some unacceptable comments too.

 

Hopefully, this thread can be something good for most of us in that we have shared our thoughts on the arguing honestly and without any anger and can hopefully move forward.

 

I apologise for singling you out, with hindsight it wasn't conducive to what we are trying to achieve here.

 

You are debating issues in an adult fashion, there is no need to apologise to me.

 

One point though. Nearly every member on this board is guilty of precisely what they have a go at other posters about at one time or another.

[Ulysses]

Very big of you to do that, apology accepted, and apologies from me for things I said on that thread and this thread, taking things too far also.

 

Thanks, much appreciated.

 

For my own part, my comments about negativity seemed to refer only to people (like yourself) who are seen as pessimistic and negative about the club and its management regime. But that wasn't the point I was trying to make, and I apologise for the fact that it came across that way.

 

The point I was trying to make was about members setting themselves up in camps and then "going negative" on people they regard as being in a different camp. That's something that quite a few people do, and it's not just the pessimists who do it. And having done it, people become completely entrenched in their positions, waiting for someone from the "enemy camp" to say something and then jumping all over it with negative comments. Members ambush each other over things they said months and even years ago. People dole out venom, but conveniently forget that they've done so and then act the victim when the venom comes back at them.

 

Shaun made the point earlier that this can be a barrier to constructive debate about Hearts - and I think he has a point. If we're responding to the member's name rather than the point they're making, we're not going to have constructive debate. We don't have to agree, but a bit of mutual respect would help.

 

Some (and I stress some) of the later posts in this thread show an awareness that this is the case. One member suggested that maybe the moderators should give points warnings for people who label each other into factions. Maybe they should, and maybe they will - but we're grown-ups here, and we shouldn't wait for the moderators to manage how we behave towards each other. A good starting point for that would be to accept that how we behave and what we say can't be blamed on "the other guy".

[Victorian]

well done children. standing shoulder to shoulder for the season ahead. woohooo!!!

 

[Jammy T]

well done children. standing shoulder to shoulder for the season ahead. woohooo!!!

 

 

oh dear

 

Good to see you've taken on the spirit of the issue being debated.

[shaun.lawson]

standing shoulder to shoulder

 

 

As long as I'm not Bush, I'm happy.

[Victorian]

oh dear

 

Good to see you've taken on the spirit of the issue being debated.

oh dear, pity you've misinterpreted my post.

 

maybe the next one will stop and give you a wave on the way past.

 

[Victorian]

 

As long as I'm not Bush, I'm happy.

not sure if the other option is all that great either.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

The feuding is pathetic though, and I'll tell you what it's caused by, is the people who respond to threads and put a sarcastically negative spin on it even when they don't mean it just to rile any of the posters who are perceived as negative before the perceived negative posters even get to put their opinion on the matter.

 

THAT is what caused the arguments and turns even positive threads into the same tired old arguments - which wouldn't have even come about had it not been for the sarcasm and mocking.

 

So even good news threads have arguments caused right from the off from these oh so humorous posters and lead us down the same road over and over and over again.

 

Exactly.

 

And the impact of it is that people end up ignoring the people posting, even if they have made a decent point or two.

[Guest JamboRobbo]

Thanks, much appreciated.

 

For my own part, my comments about negativity seemed to refer only to people (like yourself) who are seen as pessimistic and negative about the club and its management regime. But that wasn't the point I was trying to make, and I apologise for the fact that it came across that way.

 

Cheers, much appreciated too. Apologies if I took it the wrong way.

 

The point I was trying to make was about members setting themselves up in camps and then "going negative" on people they regard as being in a different camp. That's something that quite a few people do, and it's not just the pessimists who do it. And having done it, people become completely entrenched in their positions, waiting for someone from the "enemy camp" to say something and then jumping all over it with negative comments. Members ambush each other over things they said months and even years ago. People dole out venom, but conveniently forget that they've done so and then act the victim when the venom comes back at them.

 

Shaun made the point earlier that this can be a barrier to constructive debate about Hearts - and I think he has a point. If we're responding to the member's name rather than the point they're making, we're not going to have constructive debate. We don't have to agree, but a bit of mutual respect would help.

 

Agree entirely. I've been on Kickback since the days of Scot Wilson running it, site going down every thursday and losing all the posts etc. Debate used to be a lot lot better back then, and a lot more constructive.

 

As far as I'm concerned, it's gone downhill since the Pieman/Murrayfield debate divided the fans, then after that, the Vlad madness divided the fans.

 

Only time I ever started getting into arguments on here, was once I started to be critical of the way our owner was running the club (about a year and a half after Vlad came in).

[shaun.lawson]

Apologies on my part too, JR, for appearing to single you out earlier. I was just expressing myself as ineptly as ever - and think Uly's completely nailed this:

 

 

The point I was trying to make was about members setting themselves up in camps and then "going negative" on people they regard as being in a different camp. That's something that quite a few people do, and it's not just the pessimists who do it. And having done it, people become completely entrenched in their positions, waiting for someone from the "enemy camp" to say something and then jumping all over it with negative comments. Members ambush each other over things they said months and even years ago. People dole out venom, but conveniently forget that they've done so and then act the victim when the venom comes back at them.

 

[Say What Again]