Drylaw Hearts Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 Its a funny old game..... Sitting at Ibrox at half time on Saturday and having become used to seeing us play our usual defensive, unattractive stuff all season - i genuinely saw no way back for us. What I saw in the second half was a remarkable demonstration of how we can play when we really need to. It was like watching another team. I feel a little more reassured that we still have the capability to actually "play" once in a while...... Yep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambomo Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 a couple of people remarked about that, that it was great to see csaba produce a viable 'plan B'. i would like to think it was all done through design from what he had seen in the first half but it may also have been him chancing his arm and getting lucky. he doesn't strike me as being simply lucky, he's done the business too many times for that. See that's the problem, because we have been getting results such as saturdays people believe we aren't just being lucky but I really think we have to realize that we have been massively lucky this season, how many games do you think we could get away with letting Rangers walk all over us and giving them two goals? We had one shot on target against Dundee United and scored it, similarly against motherwell and that's just the last few games. Teams need the luck on their side to be successful, no doubt about it, however everyone seems to be ignoring the fact we have had it and believeing we are doing brilliantly - it's just not the case - yes Csaba changed it on sat and it worked but on another day it wouldn't. Whilst we are getting the breaks this is fine but everyones luck runs out and that's when you need the decent football, a solid team capable of getting by and we don't have that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victorian Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 See that's the problem, because we have been getting results such as saturdays people believe we aren't just being lucky but I really think we have to realize that we have been massively lucky this season, how many games do you think we could get away with letting Rangers walk all over us and giving them two goals? We had one shot on target against Dundee United and scored it, similarly against motherwell and that's just the last few games. Teams need the luck on their side to be successful, no doubt about it, however everyone seems to be ignoring the fact we have had it and believeing we are doing brilliantly - it's just not the case - yes Csaba changed it on sat and it worked but on another day it wouldn't. Whilst we are getting the breaks this is fine but everyones luck runs out and that's when you need the decent football, a solid team capable of getting by and we don't have that. i agree, there has been an element of luck at times. i also believe that sheer bloodymindedness and persistence will create luck for you though. for the times we have been lucky, look also to the times we have been shafted. i think there could be an element of things evening out somewhat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 See that's the problem, because we have been getting results such as saturdays people believe we aren't just being lucky but I really think we have to realize that we have been massively lucky this season, how many games do you think we could get away with letting Rangers walk all over us and giving them two goals? We had one shot on target against Dundee United and scored it, similarly against motherwell and that's just the last few games. Teams need the luck on their side to be successful, no doubt about it, however everyone seems to be ignoring the fact we have had it and believeing we are doing brilliantly - it's just not the case - yes Csaba changed it on sat and it worked but on another day it wouldn't. Whilst we are getting the breaks this is fine but everyones luck runs out and that's when you need the decent football, a solid team capable of getting by and we don't have that. Our luck ran out in our previous fixture when we lost a game as a result of a flukey sclaff of an attempted header which somehow found its way in to the net via a shoulder. A week later we go to Glasgow and take a point from Rangers after being 2-0 at half time. For every week our "luck" runs out, it can always return the week after. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sked21 Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 One of the reasons I don't think we haven't seen 'nice' football is Csaba's lack of confidence in the strikeforce. So has decided that his best way to get success is keep it tight and hope that we manage to grab a goal then hold on. At the moment we are 3rd so you can't really argue. But I hope to see better football next season and I think we will. But if we continue to play pish and get results then I am not going to complain. We have been put through two seasons of pish so I am enjoying being 3rd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie-Brown Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 Now that we are down to the business end of the season and only 8 hugely important games left which can still impact on every team in the SPL regards the title, european places, top 6 & relegation ..... results are what matter at this stage - pretty football is nice but it's results that are crucial - i think every team will be fighting for every point they can muster and won't care too much about the manner in which they are accumulated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jambomickey Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 Whilst Csaba's statement is true........... It would be nice if he at least tried to play some 'nice football' and achieve success. I'm hoping that he's used this Season to steady the ship and assess the squad he has at his disposal and then next Season he'll be a bit more positive in our style of play. hopefully we will see a much more positive formation next season once csaba signs some more of his own players in the summer! that's if we send the registration papers on time off course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johanes de Silentio Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 It's very simple, surely? We're stuffy because we don't have enough quality to get results by playing pretty football. We don't play pretty football because we don't have enough quality to do so and get results. It's a shame, but there it is. Remember last see-saw? Grim stuff, and eight in the ****ing league! Vast improvement this see-saw, and hopefully even greater improvement after the summer. Csaba = smart guy! **** the Hobos! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambomo Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 I actually think that what i'm most worried about is next season. We have done brilliantly and over-reached ourselves by *hopefully* getting third this year and that is soley down to Csaba coming in and getting a good managers job done. I think it's clear to see though that we don't have the quality players we want and we don't have that many options coming through which allow us to play much differently (though i think we can if we try) so we need to have a bit of a clearout and building in the summer and I think many of us fans recognize that. Statements like Csabas just concern me that they may be prepared to try and keep going like this next season rather than building on what we have achieved this year - I don't think it would work and would be a waste for what we have done this year. Maybe i'm just worrying too much! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboJen Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 One of the reasons I don't think we haven't seen 'nice' football is Csaba's lack of confidence in the strikeforce. So has decided that his best way to get success is keep it tight and hope that we manage to grab a goal then hold on. At the moment we are 3rd so you can't really argue. But I hope to see better football next season and I think we will. But if we continue to play pish and get results then I am not going to complain. We have been put through two seasons of pish so I am enjoying being 3rd. I think you've hit the nail on the head there. I think a lot of folk seem to have forgotten how we played at the beginning of the season. It was almost Burleyesque where we were having a real go and creating loads of chances but we wasted the majority of them. We finally killed off Motherwell on the opening day with a Miko raker, lost 2-0 at Ibrox despite apparently playing quite well because we didn't take our chances. Narrowly beat St Mirren but almost threw it away at the last minute, as well as missing a penalty. Tanked Airdie United, particularly in extra time, and still went out. Went to Falkirk and played brilliant football but still contirved to lose it at the death. Match after match Csaba came out in the press saying we weren't taking enough of our chances, then we went to Dundee United and got thrashed and all of our confidence went. So Csaba did what he needed to do, worked from the back, made us hard to beat and highly unlikely concede many goals and then we started picking up points. It's obvious but if you don't concede goals you can't lose games. We stopped conceding which also meant we didn't have to score 2 or 3 to try and win. So when we did finally take a chance and score, we knew we were organised enough to make a decent attempt at holding on. We need to accept that we can't run before we can walk. Last season we were ****e but now we want a winning team that plays great football. For now I'm happy to take a winning team after the total apathy that I personally felt last season. Next season hopefully we can go on to be entertaining while picking up points as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jammy T Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 It's very simple, surely? We're stuffy because we don't have enough quality to get results by playing pretty football. We don't play pretty football because we don't have enough quality to do so and get results. It's a shame, but there it is. Remember last see-saw? Grim stuff, and eight in the ****ing league! Vast improvement this see-saw, and hopefully even greater improvement after the summer. Csaba = smart guy! **** the Hobos! I wonder what the score would have been had we started the game at Ibrox with 2 strikers on the pitch.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun.lawson Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 I don't think it's that complicated really. To be a consistent side in the league, you need a strong 'B' game - meaning you can grind out results even when not playing well. Confidence sides who play better stuff often fall by the wayside in the winter months, and are pretty erratic most of the time; Csaba's first priority was to make us hard to beat. It's not an either/or, though. His next priority is to find the kinds of players who can enable us to play more fluently, and provide more options. We'll see how he goes about that during the summer. Because if we just keep playing largely sterile stuff for the next two or three seasons as well, more and more fans will get fed up, and justifiably so. It happened under Jordan. It happened towards the end of Jefferies' time too. The aim, ultimately, has to be a Hearts team with a strong 'B' game, but a strong 'A' game as well: one which isn't stereotyped, and can switch between offensive and more pragmatic football. That will all take time. At present, I'm delighted; but Csaba will end up hoist by his own petard if he can't add more feathers to our cap over the next couple of years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spellczech Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 I actually think that what i'm most worried about is next season. We have done brilliantly and over-reached ourselves by *hopefully* getting third this year and that is soley down to Csaba coming in and getting a good managers job done. I think it's clear to see though that we don't have the quality players we want and we don't have that many options coming through which allow us to play much differently (though i think we can if we try) so we need to have a bit of a clearout and building in the summer and I think many of us fans recognize that. Statements like Csabas just concern me that they may be prepared to try and keep going like this next season rather than building on what we have achieved this year - I don't think it would work and would be a waste for what we have done this year. Maybe i'm just worrying too much! I wouldn?t worry. Csaba will do what he needs to do. Say we do achieve 3rd this season... Only way he can improve on that is by either (A) stepping it up and competing with the OF, or ( playing better football. I think more of us would plump for A than B. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JT's & Irons Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 It's very simple, surely? We're stuffy because we don't have enough quality to get results by playing pretty football. We don't play pretty football because we don't have enough quality to do so and get results. It's a shame, but there it is. Remember last see-saw? Grim stuff, and eight in the ****ing league! Vast improvement this see-saw, and hopefully even greater improvement after the summer. Csaba = smart guy! **** the Hobos! Couldn't agree more. Are we playing better football than last year? Yep. Are we in a better league position than we were last year? Yep Things are better. First steady the ship, then set sail for the champions league again Mon the Csaba Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groot Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 I think we have to be a little bit careful what we wish for and in particular pay attention to Walter Smith's after match interviews on Saturday. Rangers had an impressive season last year winning both domestic cups, only losing the league on the last day and getting to the UEFA cup final by not playing nice football and all while being heavily criticised for it. Walter Smith has changed that this season to stop the criticism and this has led to some disjointed performances where they have dropped points when in all likelihood they wouldn't have last season. I would hate to think we would lose the effectiveness and success that Csaba has brought to the team in order to appease people that claim to want to see better football. Its always a criticism of teams that are doing well and has been labelled at Strachan in recent years as well, you never hear fans of teams doing poorly stating that they want them to start playing nice football do you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie-Brown Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 'Successful' football is self defining ie it is football that achieves results - if it doesn't achieve results over the period then by definition it cannot be 'successful' .... sometimes 'successful' is scoring and not conceding - other times it is coming back from 2 down to earn something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spellczech Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 I think we have to be a little bit careful what we wish for and in particular pay attention to Walter Smith's after match interviews on Saturday. Rangers had an impressive season last year winning both domestic cups, only losing the league on the last day and getting to the UEFA cup final by not playing nice football and all while being heavily criticised for it. Walter Smith has changed that this season to stop the criticism and this has led to some disjointed performances where they have dropped points when in all likelihood they wouldn't have last season. I would hate to think we would lose the effectiveness and success that Csaba has brought to the team in order to appease people that claim to want to see better football. Its always a criticism of teams that are doing well and has been labelled at Strachan in recent years as well, you never hear fans of teams doing poorly stating that they want them to start playing nice football do you? You?re right but I never fail to be surprised by the capacity of football managers to push their luck. I?m 34 so if I was a footballer I?d be nearing the end of my career, but if I was a Rangers CB of the last 2 seasons I?d be one of the youngest! Smith?s squad?s age has caught up with him. Csaba and Hearts over the last few years have pushed their luck with regards to playing players out of position and bringing them into the team too early or too soon after injury. It caught Csaba out with Eggert at CB at the Methadome, but it?s happened dozens of other times with various other players including Zaliukas, Aguiar and Karapidis at DM, various Poles, Miko & Chesney after suspensions and injuries, Ksanavicius almost every time he played, Nade as a fatty, Jani and Bednar after injuries, Klimek(eek!)...etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coco Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 Given the success Laszlo has had in the league this year - why would he change to a more expansive style next year? Is there any sign in anything he has done at Hearts to show that he favours a more expansive style of football? Or in the players he signed (Mrowiec, Obua, Tullberg, Kello, Balogh). Didn't make the game on Saturday but caught the second half on Rangers TV last night. It appeared on the telly at least that we were still playing in Laszlo's 2 strikers formation - with Elliot playing behind Nade then Tullberg - the same formation as we have used in every game this season. Anyone confirm? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jammy T Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 Didn't make the game on Saturday but caught the second half on Rangers TV last night. It appeared on the telly at least that we were still playing in Laszlo's 2 strikers formation - with Elliot playing behind Nade then Tullberg - the same formation as we have used in every game this season. Anyone confirm? Cant comment on this per se My argument has always been that if you at least fill the "second" striker role with somebody that has predominantly played striker - eg Glen or Elliot - you will at least have somebody that when we attack should instinctively get in good attacking and scoring positions I agree with your post though, I'm not sure if Csaba can change. He's been so inflexible this season as regards this formation. I think the best we can hope for is that we either sign or promote players that can play a lot of the positions better. It would at least be interesting to see what difference a truely goal scoring main striker would make to the current set up. I also think the second striker needs to be more of a striker than a midfielder, albeit if he has to sit deeper. Finally, if Driver goes we're pretty goosed - because there are no other wide players at the club to replace him, never mind the fact that the opposite wing needs to be more influential than it currently is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankenstein Jambo. Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 Great...I can't wait until he shows us successful football at least one person on this board has a bit of balls to speak the truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattyw_1874 Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 Rangers 2 Hearts 0Falkirk 2 Hearts 1 Hearts 1 Kilmarnock 2 Hearts 0 Celtic 2 Dundee Utd 3 Hearts 0 Motherwell 1 Hearts 0 Hearts 0 Falkirk 1 Aberdeen 1 Hearts 0 Hamilton 2 Hearts 0 Hearts 1 St Mirren 1 Hibs 1 Hearts 0 Hearts 0 Airdrie United 0 (lose on penalties) Seriously please just **** off.. nobody wants anyone like you "supporting" our club. 5 points clear in 3rd, the team is showing spirit and determination, two qualities I thought Hearts had lost forever, or at least until the day Vlad left. Get your head out you insane old bitter erse, have a look at what this club have achieved so far under Csaba and enjoy being a Hearts SUPPORTER like the rest of us. Either that or leave I am pretty sure nobody would miss your continuous negativity anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Bill Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 Remember the Rangers game in November when we won 2-1? It wasn't always pretty, but it was full-bloodied, with bags of effort and atmosphere. To me, it was Hearts at their best, and to the neutral - it was the SPL at its best. It was also our fifth win on the bounce. I don't remember walking into Diggers after that thinking, "oh, I wish we could've seen just a bit more 'nicer' football". Bollox. I'll take a win any day of the week. Let other teams bang on about how playing with 'flair' disguises prepetual underachievement. Without a showdow of doubt, Csaba Laszlo has performed minor miracles with our mob and we should be grateful that we have him. Buffalo Bill . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamboinglasgow Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 Remember the Rangers game in November when we won 2-1? It wasn't always pretty, but it was full-bloodied, with bags of effort and atmosphere. To me, it was Hearts at their best, and to the neutral - it was the SPL at its best. It was also our fifth win on the bounce. I don't remember walking into Diggers after that thinking, "oh, I wish we could've seen just a bit more 'nicer' football". Bollox. I'll take a win any day of the week. Let other teams bang on about how playing with 'flair' disguises prepetual underachievement. Without a showdow of doubt, Csaba Laszlo has performed minor miracles with our mob and we should be grateful that we have him. Buffalo Bill . I would agree with this. Jose Mourinho left partly because Roman abhramavich wanted beautiful football even though Jose was winning things. Few teams in the world can play beautiful, succesful football. Barca can, Arsenal could till recently. Ajax did when they had Cryuff. The pinicle of playing style is near impossible to achieve overnight with instant sucess so we have to choose to focus on one at the moment and slowly build the other. I choose success first than work on style of play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Bill Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 I would agree with this. Jose Mourinho left partly because Roman abhramavich wanted beautiful football even though Jose was winning things. Few teams in the world can play beautiful, succesful football. Barca can, Arsenal could till recently. Ajax did when they had Cryuff. The pinicle of playing style is near impossible to achieve overnight with instant sucess so we have to choose to focus on one at the moment and slowly build the other. I choose success first than work on style of play. Another example is us, in 97/98. We played sensational, fast, passing, moving football all season, and we were Britain's highest scorers after Christmas. But yet we couldn't beat the Old Firm - at all . . . . . . until that is, we played one of them in the season's finale cup final. Poor Wally Smith. He didn't know how to deal with our secret new formation: that being 4-5-1 for younger readers. And the rest was history. Buffalo Bill . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie-Brown Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 Csaba knows how to 'rope a dope' . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coco Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 Csaba knows how to 'rope a dope' . Have heard it all now. Ali used to try to land a single punch and then hang on in the last few rounds of every fight did he? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie-Brown Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 Have heard it all now. Ali used to try to land a single punch and then hang on in the last few rounds of every fight did he? The rope-a-dope is performed by a boxer assuming a protected stance, in Ali's classic pose, lying against the ropes, and allowing his opponent to hit him, in the hope that the opponent will become tired and make mistakes which the boxer can exploit in a counter attack. In competitive situations other than boxing, rope-a-dope is used to describe strategies in which one party purposely puts itself in what appears to be a losing position, attempting thereby to become the eventual victor http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ropeadope Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JamboRobbo Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 Csaba knows how to 'rope a dope' . That would explain his apparent ability to get Vlad to keep his nose out of the managers business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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