missed98 Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 Hold on! I never said we didn't own UBIG or Ukio money. I was saying that a significant amount of the "excess" debt you mentioned has been written off from the swap. What are you also forgetting as well is if we "default" on the debt due in 2010 then the problem is UBIG's as the majority shareholder. Such are the joys of an "internal" debt. Don't try and reason with him, i've explained this to him about a 100 times and he still doesn't get it and it doesn't fit his anti vlad rants. And another thing, an extra 5m in debt (we were already losing 3m a year under robinson, so theoretically, we would be an additional 9m in debt without romanov) and a cup to show for it, not bad imo. How much did Robinson spend to win his cup???? Anyway Halders i'm sure you owe me a pint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambo83 Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 To be perfectly honest, i'll be quite relieved if we've managed to knock ?10m off the debt since the last accounts were released. If we've managed to get it down to ?26-27m by July 08, we can hopefully expect much lower figures for the next accounts taking into account the cash for Berra and vastly reduced wage bill. Have we not released something like 10 players since August? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dipped Flake Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 Nope, i think you'll find Hearts are still in debt via loans to Vlads bank, a debt that needs repaid by February 2010. WE've already done the debt for equity bit, but because we now have so much debt thanks to Vlad we still have a few quid to pay to Ukio Bank by February 2010 Probably wasting my time here as you are obviously never going to credit Vlad with anything but can you look into your crystal ball and tell me what debt we would have had if we had stayed with the pieman?? As others have posted we were losing over ?3M a year so our debt should have increased to about ?30M by now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest casper Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 I was saying that a significant amount of the "excess" debt you mentioned has been written off from the swap. Who is to say that once the total debt has been reduced to a more managable level that that debt for equity swap is not swaped back in a similar way to the new owners of Man Utd using borrowings by the club to pay for their purchase of the club. I'm sure Ubig will want a return on theit ?12M debt write off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 Who is to say that once the total debt has been reduced to a more managable level that that debt for equity swap is not swaped back in a similar way to the new owners of Man Utd using borrowings by the club to pay for their purchase of the club. I'm sure Ubig will want a return on theit ?12M debt write off. Why would they? The difference with United was that they had assets that weren't being leveraged whereas HMFC, as it stands, are a technically insolvent company. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missed98 Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 Who is to say that once the total debt has been reduced to a more managable level that that debt for equity swap is not swaped back in a similar way to the new owners of Man Utd using borrowings by the club to pay for their purchase of the club. I'm sure Ubig will want a return on theit ?12M debt write off. Borrowings from where??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groot Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 Who is to say that once the total debt has been reduced to a more managable level that that debt for equity swap is not swaped back in a similar way to the new owners of Man Utd using borrowings by the club to pay for their purchase of the club. I'm sure Ubig will want a return on theit ?12M debt write off. The return that UBIG got was an increased % of ownership in the club, hence it is called debt for equity, the only way they can now get it back is by selling their controlling stake in the club Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest casper Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 Why would they? The difference with United was that they had assets that weren't being leveraged whereas HMFC, as it stands, are a technically insolvent company. But if the debts continue to reduce the club won't always be technically insolvent and the ground, for example, could become an real leverageble asset. Ubig have ?12M of Hearts shares which would raise nothing like that on the open market so how else would they get a return on these shares? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmeladent?rtchen Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 One negative point is the fact we finished 8th last year. Bottom 6 for Hearts is totally unacceptable!! Vlad started something, it did not work. Now I think hes trying something else. I think next seaon will be better. Fingers crossed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest casper Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 The return that UBIG got was an increased % of ownership in the club, hence it is called debt for equity, the only way they can now get it back is by selling their controlling stake in the club A couple of questions. What %age of the club did Ubig get for their ?12M? Is that %age now worth anything like ?12M if they were to sell the shares? I don't know the answer to the first question but given the club are "technically insolvent" I doubt the they would get anything like ?12M of these shares. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambojim52 Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 The main points are: On the plus side: We stayed at Tynie Debt is reduced Players off the wage bill The debt we have is at a reduce interest rate We won the cup We got second in the league. We have what looks like a good manager who gets the best out of what he has. On the negative side: Vlad took us to high debt, this is now looking like being resolved cancelling it out Vlad rants about everything,He has taken a back seat so effectivly cancelling that out too Can't think of anything more but I am sure I will be informed of much more by certain posters. Oh yes we were 8th last season. Over all a win win situation for us, and with Hibs looking like a bottom six again this season, while we have europe to look forward to, I can't see where the moans are coming from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topcat Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 Who is to say that once the total debt has been reduced to a more managable level that that debt for equity swap is not swaped back in a similar way to the new owners of Man Utd using borrowings by the club to pay for their purchase of the club. Would it not make more sense to simply start pay themselves dividends in the first place once the debt is "manageable" rather than paying off further debt before running up fresh debt which they then use to pay dividends. I'm sure Ubig will want a return on theit ?12M debt write off. I want a back rub from Beyonce Knowles but that aint gonna happen any time soon either, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I.J Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 I want a back rub from Beyonce Knowles but that aint gonna happen any time soon either, Not until I dump her anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groot Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 A couple of questions.What %age of the club did Ubig get for their ?12M? Is that %age now worth anything like ?12M if they were to sell the shares? I don't know the answer to the first question but given the club are "technically insolvent" I doubt the they would get anything like ?12M of these shares. I believe somebody said something in the region of 12% No, that is not worth ?12m The fact still remains that that is what UBIG got for the ?12m, in effect the ?12m has been written off against UBIG and I can't see how it can be transferred back to the club unless the club bought the 12% back for ?12m but I don't see that being likely Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bighalders Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 Don't try and reason with him, i've explained this to him about a 100 times and he still doesn't get it and it doesn't fit his anti vlad rants. And another thing, an extra 5m in debt (we were already losing 3m a year under robinson, so theoretically, we would be an additional 9m in debt without romanov) and a cup to show for it, not bad imo. How much did Robinson spend to win his cup???? Anyway Halders i'm sure you owe me a pint - No probs, and I'll explani all the Mad Vlad woes too:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Gosling Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 Not until I dump on her anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missed98 Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 - No probs, and I'll explani all the Mad Vlad woes too:) You buy the beers, i'll let you splaff your anti vlad rants all night and shake my head in a knowing and agreeable fashion until such times as your wallet is empty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bighalders Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 You buy the beers, i'll let you splaff your anti vlad rants all night and shake my head in a knowing and agreeable fashion until such times as your wallet is empty Again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I.J Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 Is she from Cleveland? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topcat Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 Not until I dump her anyway. Dumping her is one thing but is it not a bit insensitive to let her find out that she's going to get dumped by reading it on kickback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Gosling Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 Is she from Cleveland? She may be a fan of the Steamer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teuchterjambo Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 I would say, taking the debt from approx ?36million, down to approx ?20million in the last year, is doing a quite incredible job, especially these days. Mr Romanov has been slaughtered for the bad things he's done, are you all too blinkered now to see what's happening now? Not at all - happy to see the debt reducing but neither am I willing to lavish too much praise on someone for righting his own wrongs. If it continues to a level that is under control and the club are free from financial threat then we will have moved on significantly and praise will be due. I do admit that things seem to be going in the right direction but that may be due to need rather than strategy and the real work is being done by Cambell Ogilvie and team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groot Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 Not at all - happy to see the debt reducing but neither am I willing to lavish too much praise on someone for righting his own wrongs. If it continues to a level that is under control and the club are free from financial threat then we will have moved on significantly and praise will be due. I do admit that things seem to be going in the right direction but that may be due to need rather than strategy and the real work is being done by Cambell Ogilvie and team. You're an Old Testament sort of guy aren't you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Wiseau Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 She may be a fan of the Steamer. I've seen her steaming a few times. Once or twice she was even wearing a bow tie and goggles... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teuchterjambo Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 You're an Old Testament sort of guy aren't you Having read my post again I have to admit there is definitely a touch of the old puritanical about it. I have been called many things but never an Old Testament sort of guy - your comment made me smile ! I'll try not to introduce any more of the pulpit bashing from now on ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groot Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 Having read my post again I have to admit there is definitely a touch of the old puritanical about it. I have been called many things but never an Old Testament sort of guy - your comment made me smile !I'll try not to introduce any more of the pulpit bashing from now on ! Cool, glad it was taken the right way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Therapist Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 true he kept us at tynie, we did well the season we won the cup and qualified for europe but he had already started to mismanage the team to the extent the team became a shambles, the players were messed about, he paid over the odds for rubbish players and he lost the trust in the vast majority of hearts fans. romanov has shown he's incompetent when it comes to signing players and appointing managers and i believe it's only down to luck that we now have a manager who is up to the job. romanov has done some good things but he has made too many mistakes, told too many lies, and shown contempt for the fans. most of the fans will find it very hard to ever trust him again. Point 1 - I'd be quite happy being "mismanaged" to the Scottish Cup and Champions League every year. Point 2 - I don't recall him referring to Hearts fans as "parasites". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missed98 Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 Point 1 - I'd be quite happy being "mismanaged" to the Scottish Cup and Champions League every year. Point 2 - I don't recall him referring to Hearts fans as "parasites". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jambomickey Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 Point 1 - I'd be quite happy being "mismanaged" to the Scottish Cup and Champions League every year. Point 2 - I don't recall him referring to Hearts fans as "parasites". was robinson who called hearts fans parasites. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun.lawson Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 was robinson who called hearts fans parasites. Minor, largely irrelevant aside: it's actually a lot more likely he called those who refused to pay to watch a Youth Cup semi-final "pathetic". Source: the excellent The Battle for Hearts and Minds by Craig Watson. Not good - but not what was reported and has gone down in history, it would appear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambojim52 Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 Minor, largely irrelevant aside: it's actually a lot more likely he called those who refused to pay to watch a Youth Cup semi-final "pathetic". Source: the excellent The Battle for Hearts and Minds by Craig Watson. Not good - but not what was reported and has gone down in history, it would appear. He may well have said that Shaun, but IIRC he DID call the fans parsites too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboMarc Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 When do we find out what our debt is at? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott herbertson Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 I do admit that things seem to be going in the right direction but that may be due to need rather than strategy and the real work is being done by Cambell Ogilvie and team. Isn't that what they are employed to do? You could argue that Anderton did what he wasn't employed to do (marketing) 'extravagantly well', while Ogilvie has done what he was employed to do, quietly but effectively and efficiently.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deevers Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 When do we find out what our debt is at? I believe the next set of accounts should be published next month. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fozzyonthefence Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 Apparently, writing ?12million of the debt, has nothing to do with his running of the club either - you couldn't make it up I'm not aware of anyone generously writing off ?12m of the debt so please do tell if you know something we don't. There was a debt for equity scheme where UBIG increased their steak in HMFC by a further ?12m but I don't recall generous Vlad deciding to just write off ?12m of the debt with nothing in return. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PresidentRomanov Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 I'm not aware of anyone generously writing off ?12m of the debt so please do tell if you know something we don't. There was a debt for equity scheme where UBIG increased their steak in HMFC by a further ?12m but I don't recall generous Vlad deciding to just write off ?12m of the debt with nothing in return. Do you think the increased stake, is worth anywhere near the ?12million they paid for it? The reason you're not aware of it, is because you don't have the intelligence to understand it. Fact is, Mr Romanov, effectively did write off ?12million from our debt, and few seem to even have the common decency to acknowledge it - I sometimes wonder why he doesn't tell us all to shove it and close the club down, If I were in his shoes, I'd be tempted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groot Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 I'm not aware of anyone generously writing off ?12m of the debt so please do tell if you know something we don't. There was a debt for equity scheme where UBIG increased their steak in HMFC by a further ?12m but I don't recall generous Vlad deciding to just write off ?12m of the debt with nothing in return. Do you think the increased stake, is worth anywhere near the ?12million they paid for it? The reason you're not aware of it, is because you don't have the intelligence to understand it. Fact is, Mr Romanov, effectively did write off ?12million from our debt, and few seem to even have the common decency to acknowledge it - I sometimes wonder why he doesn't tell us all to shove it and close the club down, If I were in his shoes, I'd be tempted Sorry guys, just to bring it to our attention, this discussion was about 2 pages ago Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topcat Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 When do we find out what our debt is at? We don't Later this month we find out what it was 8 months ago. There will then follow lots of ill informed speculation as to where things have moved since then. Although not as ill informed as the current speculation based on 20 month old accounts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neverlikedElvis Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 i think we had a better team on the park when romanov came in compared to what we've got now. i don't. we were mince that season. miko and chesney changed the team. that's a fact Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboAl Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 We don't Later this month we find out what it was 8 months ago. There will then follow lots of ill informed speculation as to where things have moved since then. Although not as ill informed as the current speculation based on 20 month old accounts Good summary TC. Spot on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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