SFA racists - a response?

[shaun.lawson]

I've never found Graham Spiers pro Hearts in any shape or form other than when he's mouthing the ususal platitudes about how good a challenge to the OF would be.

Stuart Bathgate writes for The Scotsman, which doesn't have the best of track records for being pro Hearts and was known as a Hibs sympathiser (wouldn't say a fan as he didn't grow up a Hibs supporter.)

Darryl Broadfoot isn't that bad.

Ewan Murray is clearly pro Hearts.

 

But neither Spiers nor Bathgate are anti-Hearts (naturally, given the positions they're in). They're not the enemy.

[bazo]

A point being missed here is that Lithuanians are a Nationality and not a race...one thing that this is NOT is racism.

[Sub4TiddlerMurray]

But neither Spiers nor Bathgate are anti-Hearts (naturally, given the positions they're in). They're not the enemy.

 

Spiers wrote a horrible little piece after the Rangers game when he also accused Berra of shoving in the box to win our first goal. There's nothing pro-Hearts about him at all. And, with miserable "friends" like Bathgate, who needs enemies.

[Sub4TiddlerMurray]

A point being miss here is that Lithuanians are a Nationality and not a race...one thing that this is NOT is racism

 

Sorry to disagree Bazo but as Wikipedia puts it:

 

The term race or racial group usually refers to the concept of categorizing humans into populations or groups on the basis of various sets of heritable characteristics.[1]

[shaun.lawson]

Spiers wrote a horrible little piece after the Rangers game when he also accused Berra of shoving in the box to win our first goal. There's nothing pro-Hearts about him at all. And, with miserable "friends" like Bathgate, who needs enemies.

 

There's nothing wrong with either of them - unless you're going to spend your time scrutinising every word they write for evidence of their "bias" against us. Spiers, given his genuine backbone, would probably be the first to write of a refereeing conspiracy if it was actually happening.

[John S]

If this 'issue' were to be covered by the press, my preference would be for it to be driven by a non sports journo, say for example someone who had an interest in human rights/corruptions issues.

[bazo]

Sorry to disagree Bazo but as Wikipedia puts it:

 

The term race or racial group usually refers to the concept of categorizing humans into populations or groups on the basis of various sets of heritable characteristics.[1]

 

Happy to be proven wrong, but I am sure there was a case a few years ago where an Irishman took someone to court over racist remarks along the Irish type jokes that he was subjected to and the case was thrown out by the judge as he was Irish Nationality not race.

 

Also, what are the heritable characteristics that separate Lithuanians from other countries around them ? Think the heritable characteristics are easier to demonstrate with Africans, Asian Sub Continent, Japanese, Aborigibal Australians, maoris etc etc which can be identified as different races

[ramrod]

I didn't say it was racism AP that was some other poster - read my post again - I said Hearts Lithuanian players are treated harsher by referee's than other players are for similar offences, how can anyone dispute that?

 

Some examples:

 

Tannadice - Zaliukas sent off violent conduct - Wilkie escapes punishment same incident.

 

Velicka at Hearts booked for simulation - Velicka at Ibrox not booked for simulation (along with Boyd & ESPECIALLY Broadfoot)

 

Mikoliunas booked half a dozen times for simulation despite far worse from Nakamura, Clarkson, Mackie, Boyd, Broadfoot, Darcheville)

 

Pittodrie: Zaliukas sent off - Lee Miller escapes punishment

 

Pittodrie: Zaliukas booked for guesturing for a booking / Zander Diamond & other Dons not booked for exactly the same last season.

 

that would make a good flag.....a bit big,but good none the less.....

[colinmaroon]

Happy to be proven wrong, but I am sure there was a case a few years ago where an Irishman took someone to court over racist remarks along the Irish type jokes that he was subjected to and the case was thrown out by the judge as he was Irish Nationality not race.

 

Also, what are the heritable characteristics that separate Lithuanians from other countries around them ? Think the heritable characteristics are easier to demonstrate with Africans, Asian Sub Continent, Japanese, Aborigibal Australians, maoris etc etc which can be identified as different races

 

 

 

As stated earlier on this thread - why then was a Hearts supporter found "guilty" of "racism" when lumping the adjective "Welsh" in with some other more derogatory terms?

 

 

 

................

[john brownlee]

Why?

 

What they gonna do, send off a Hearts player or two for doing nothing? Oh wait....

 

Ask the assistants and 4th officials to intervene if the referee doesn't see it? Oh wait....

 

Or how about they continue to notch up the bookings and sendings off and hammer us with a massive fine or points deduction at the end of the season? Oh wait....

 

Would we as a club and set of fans be ridiculed in the press and be hated across the country by supporters of other clubs? Oh wait...

 

What could it possibly do to make things any worse?

 

We are the ones getting shafted Shaun, the people who work hard all week and decide to spend money following their team up and down the country.

 

At least we'd be doing something.

 

 

 

 

Johnny I actually think you have hit it on the nail I for almost three season now have been emailing infoeufa pointing out the blatant racism toward Hearts players, Staff, Management and of course the owner and you have guest it, never once got a reply.

 

As another poster pointed out not to many things in the press, at the early part of the season. Not to many wrong decisions, not many yellows and a few reds but not every week . Why, because we were mince and of no threat to anybody but win a few games beat and draw the squirm i.e. duffing up the squirm, they see us as a threat to the status quo, .What the GFA the weegi meegi and the rest of scottish football are now is probably not racism but a collective anti Hearts as we are now the foreign team in scotland

 

This all culminating into a big fine and a points deduction even more so if we split the squirm.

[SlyNB]

Drylaw Hearts, the most anti-Jambo Jambo this side of Tennessee.

[davemclaren]

Drylaw Hearts, the most anti-Jambo Jambo this side of Tennessee.

 

I think you are well wide of the mark. I don't always ( or often :xmastongue: ) agree with him but he seems a genuine and caring jambo to me. :xmasgrin:

[John S]

Drylaw Hearts, the most anti-Jambo Jambo this side of Tennessee.

 

Unfair comment

[davemclaren]

Unfair comment

 

Happy New Year John. We will all disagree on many things on here but ultimately we all love Heart of Midlothian. Good night. :xmasgrin:

[John S]

Happy New Year John. We will all disagree on many things on here but ultimately we all love Heart of Midlothian. Good night. :xmasgrin:

 

Too true

 

Happy New Year to you Dave

[bazo]

As stated earlier on this thread - why then was a Hearts supporter found "guilty" of "racism" when lumping the adjective "Welsh" in with some other more derogatory terms?

 

 

 

................

 

Are you sure he was found guilty of racism ? If so happy to be proven wrong as I said.

 

Even so, I am still of the opinion that you cannot be racist against a nation unless that nation is classed as a race.

 

IMO the race card is used to easily and frequently when its not appropriate.

 

I also find it hard to believe that punishing hearts players can be racist, as they are all different nationalities and some of a different race as well.

 

There could be an argument that there is an agenda against hearts themselves and as a result the players are punished, but thats also a theory I do not agree with.

[Bickfest]

Are you sure he was found guilty of racism ? If so happy to be proven wrong as I said.

 

Even so, I am still of the opinion that you cannot be racist against a nation unless that nation is classed as a race.

 

IMO the race card is used to easily and frequently when its not appropriate.

 

I also find it hard to believe that punishing hearts players can be racist, as they are all different nationalities and some of a different race as well.

 

There could be an argument that there is an agenda against hearts themselves and as a result the players are punished, but thats also a theory I do not agree with.

 

Even though a top official has already admitted that there is, amongst referees, a policy of zero tolerance towards Hearts players?

 

FWIW I am not convinced of the racism argument. Not at all. And I think we should be very careful about what we accuse others of. These things have a way of coming back to haunt you. It would be ironic if our complaint about injustice itself contained an unjust accusation.

 

However, there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that there is an agenda against Hearts (and I suspect Dundee Utd), that Brines, Chicken McCurry and McDonald are all more than just incompetent and that the appeals system is a farce.

[Fozzyonthefence]

yes it is. every player has a nationality.

 

What a ridiculous argument

[Fozzyonthefence]

Even though a top official has already admitted that there is, amongst referees, a policy of zero tolerance towards Hearts players?

 

Who admitted that & where?

[JamboJen]

So since we can't agree on racism/xenophobia etc, how about:

 

SFA - Showing prejudice the green light.

 

Show Brines the RedCard

[Guest Bilel Mohsni]

Zalli is being treated unfairly and there is a case for suggesting it is a result of Miko's dive against Scotland but i think it has far more to do with the team that he plays for.

 

Hearts would have narrowed the gap on struggling (both in form and finances) rangers and Brines would have been still smarting from celtic pulling away from them... Then there is the added bonus of earning his employers another 10,000 pounds courtesy of Vlad.

 

SFA are a joke and I seriously think irt is about time that someone took the matter to an outside party and had their behaviour investigated... after all it is a paying public who are being cheated and that is basicaly fraud if the supposed neutral adjudicators are influencing the outcome of matches on the basis of agendas and ulterior motives.

[Sub4TiddlerMurray]

Are you sure he was found guilty of racism ? If so happy to be proven wrong as I said.

 

Even so, I am still of the opinion that you cannot be racist against a nation unless that nation is classed as a race.

 

IMO the race card is used to easily and frequently when its not appropriate.

 

I also find it hard to believe that punishing hearts players can be racist, as they are all different nationalities and some of a different race as well.

 

There could be an argument that there is an agenda against hearts themselves and as a result the players are punished, but thats also a theory I do not agree with.

 

You are getting tied up in knots over this one if you don't mind me saying Bazo. It is simple, where a group are treated unfairly because of their nationality, religion or appearance, in other words unfairly by the more powerful, it is racist. Xenophobia is an intense dislike of another nationality. Where power is involved, it is racist.

 

And, there is a very strong case to show that Lithuanian players in particular are treated unfairly by the SFA and the wider institution that is Scottish football.

 

I wouldn't suggest that we go about shouting "racism" at every turn but it should be challenged and the SFA would, as I've said, cack themselves if we made a very well organised demo.

 

How about alluding to the race issue without saying it?

 

For example, showing big red cards saying "Show the SFA the Red Card"

[colinmaroon]

All this discussion about using "racism" too readliy would be valid if the PC blobbers in our legislative bodies hadn't devalued and broadened the parameters of the definition of the word - but they have opened the gate, and so, I see nothing wrong with a protest such as suggested in the OP.

 

Apart from anything else, to wave banners stating "Give racism the red card" is thoroughly in sympathy with legitimately combatting the discrimination that plagues our society at many levels, including discrimination against a particular nationality in a particular football team.

 

Of course, if anyone feels that they have a sneaking sympathy for the disgraceful stance of the authorities in condoning and excacerbating such treatment, because of their own feelings to anything Lithuanian, that is there problem!!!

 

There comes a time when enough is enough, and the antiquated, out-dated, unjust, and corrupt body that passes as the SFA, should be challenged as forcefully as can be the people who count in the game - the fans.

 

 

 

.....................

[Guest Bilel Mohsni]

The reasons for Brines' actions are almost a side issue. Fact of the matter is that Hearts are getting sanctioned and singled out for unfair treatment at the hands of the people who are supposed to be there to protect the interests of game in a balanced and just fashion.

 

Levein took matters in to his own hands when when he was singled out by the SFA and threatened court action... We need someone at the club to be taking stock of all these incidents and compiling a dossier of them... we are in no way a dirtier team than anyone else in the league but we are the victims of a hate campaign that may be the result of several seperate agendas. Miko's dive against Scotland, Vlad's Mowglie comments, Us finishing above Rangers in 06 etc.

 

Whatever the reasons for this backlash are, we are a paying public and we are being defrauded and swindled out of our hard earned cash by backing a team entering tournaments in good faith, only to be faced with a governing body that is determined to prevent us from competing on a level playing field.

 

This is fraud and if someone at the BBC or ITV were to do an undercover investigation on referees and the SFA on such matters, then you would probably have can after can of hidden camera footage of refs and officials exposing themselves as the OF protecting little cheats that they are.

 

Is there not an ombudsman or independant body that we could take our concerns to?

[dodemac]

Surrey Jambo suggested a slogan in the Zal thread:

 

http://www.hmfckickback.co.uk/showthread.php?p=716695&highlight=show+racism+card#post716695

 

"SFA - Show Racism The Red Card"

 

Perhaps that should be the next banner made by Hearts fans?

 

surely it should read

 

SHOW SFA THE RED CARD OF RACISM!!!

[Tiberius Stinkfinger]

The reasons for Brines' actions are almost a side issue. Fact of the matter is that Hearts are getting sanctioned and singled out for unfair treatment at the hands of the people who are supposed to be there to protect the interests of game in a balanced and just fashion.

 

Levein took matters in to his own hands when when he was singled out by the SFA and threatened court action... We need someone at the club to be taking stock of all these incidents and compiling a dossier of them... we are in no way a dirtier team than anyone else in the league but we are the victims of a hate campaign that may be the result of several seperate agendas. Miko's dive against Scotland, Vlad's Mowglie comments, Us finishing above Rangers in 06 etc.

 

Whatever the reasons for this backlash are, we are a paying public and we are being defrauded and swindled out of our hard earned cash by backing a team entering tournaments in good faith, only to be faced with a governing body that is determined to prevent us from competing on a level playing field.

 

This is fraud and if someone at the BBC or ITV were to do an undercover investigation on referees and the SFA on such matters, then you would probably have can after can of hidden camera footage of refs and officials exposing themselves as the OF protecting little cheats that they are.

 

Is there not an ombudsman or independent body that we could take our concerns to?

 

 

Now you know i couldn't resist commenting when you scribe words like the ones highlighted Mr Insect sir.

 

You have never paid to see a game in yer puff ya skinflint ye. :xmasgrin:

[Guest Bilel Mohsni]

Now you know i couldn't resist commenting when you scribe words like the ones highlighted Mr Insect sir.

 

You have never paid to see a game in yer puff ya skinflint ye. :xmasgrin:

 

 

Och aye, here we go!

 

I find your accusations, scurrilous and uncalled for Mr Leofelis! You can say cheerio to your Burger king and Lambrini after that one sir! :xmasgrin:

 

I'll have you know that my good lady is furnishing me with a spanking new season ticket for my thirtieth birthday next season and so i will no longer have to defend myself against such accusations. I attend every game i can and I thank your good self for making that easier for me on a few occasions recently... It is apreciated good sir. :xmasgrin:

 

PS: Did you get your present back from Hadrians... i will be most insulted if not. :xmasunsure:

[Seymour M Hersh]

What a load of bollocks.

 

Never mind here's the sex pistols!!

[Drylaw Hearts]

Never mind here's the sex pistols!!

 

Who ?

[Seymour M Hersh]

Who ?

 

Nice try but you're well old enough to remember them.

[tynie]

I believe amongst our support are politicians at different levels of Government, if they sincerely want to help and do support the team then they could certainly get publicity, for the concerns and perhaps, get the proper people involved. Strictly a suggestion.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The reasons for Brines' actions are almost a side issue. Fact of the matter is that Hearts are getting sanctioned and singled out for unfair treatment at the hands of the people who are supposed to be there to protect the interests of game in a balanced and just fashion.

 

Levein took matters in to his own hands when when he was singled out by the SFA and threatened court action... We need someone at the club to be taking stock of all these incidents and compiling a dossier of them... we are in no way a dirtier team than anyone else in the league but we are the victims of a hate campaign that may be the result of several seperate agendas. Miko's dive against Scotland, Vlad's Mowglie comments, Us finishing above Rangers in 06 etc.

 

Whatever the reasons for this backlash are, we are a paying public and we are being defrauded and swindled out of our hard earned cash by backing a team entering tournaments in good faith, only to be faced with a governing body that is determined to prevent us from competing on a level playing field.

 

This is fraud and if someone at the BBC or ITV were to do an undercover investigation on referees and the SFA on such matters, then you would probably have can after can of hidden camera footage of refs and officials exposing themselves as the OF protecting little cheats that they are.

 

Is there not an ombudsman or independant body that we could take our concerns to?

[Drylaw Hearts]

Nice try but you're well old enough to remember them.

 

I disagree.

[dodemac]

Who ?

 

if it wasna for the Pistols and the Damned and the Buzzcocks just think what crap we coulds still been listening too??

Gary Glitter would be like Cliff Richard a no1 in every decade :xmasgrin::xmasgrin::xmasgrin::xmasgrin:

[Tiberius Stinkfinger]

Och aye, here we go!

 

I find your accusations, scurrilous and uncalled for Mr Leofelis! You can say cheerio to your Burger king and Lambrini after that one sir! :xmasgrin:

 

I'll have you know that my good lady is furnishing me with a spanking new season ticket for my thirtieth birthday next season and so i will no longer have to defend myself against such accusations. I attend every game i can and I thank your good self for making that easier for me on a few occasions recently... It is apreciated good sir. :xmasgrin:

 

PS: Did you get your present back from Hadrians... i will be most insulted if not. :xmasunsure:

 

 

 

Oh dear.

I could make up some lame excuse to hide the fact that in all the excitement i completely forgot about it...oops.

 

I know its asking a bit much but could you buy me another one please

 

:xmasgrin:

[Victorian]

What a ridiculous argument

eh no. a joke.

 

what a ridiculous response.

[deejtee]

Can't believe there is any debate that SFA including senior officials have made comments about our Lithuanians as have the media, fuelled by our owner's attitude admittedly. Other fans have a similar view fuelled by the media. However having read plenty vitriolic crap on this site over the years against any Lithuanian players and truely foul stuff directed at our owner and his son and his employees are we ( Hearts fans as a whole) in a position to call the SFA racist???

[Captain Lithuania]

And above it, the flags of all our players, Lithuanian, Icelandic, Portuguese, Spanish, Scottish, Greek, Ghanian, Ugandan etc.

 

I can supply the Lithuanian, Slovakian and the Ghanian one.

 

No need for a scottish one as the referees themselves are Scottish.