SFA racists - a response?

[John S]

Surrey Jambo suggested a slogan in the Zal thread:

 

http://www.hmfckickback.co.uk/showthread.php?p=716695&highlight=show+racism+card#post716695

 

"SFA - Show Racism The Red Card"

 

Perhaps that should be the next banner made by Hearts fans?

[Statto]

And above it, the flags of all our players, Lithuanian, Icelandic, Portuguese, Spanish, Scottish, Greek, Ghanian, Ugandan etc.

[colinmaroon]

Surrey Jambo suggested a slogan in the Zal thread:

 

http://www.hmfckickback.co.uk/showthread.php?p=716695&highlight=show+racism+card#post716695

 

"SFA - Show Racism The Red Card"

 

Perhaps that should be the next banner made by Hearts fans?

 

 

 

There's no perhaps about it!!!

 

It's a great idea - with a Lithuanian flag in the corner.

 

Wind it up gradually over games in January, with the BIG day when we play the sheep in Feb.

 

 

 

 

..............

[Scallywag]

Great idea !

[Victorian]

sfa - giving racism the green light.

[Ron Burgundy]

sfa - giving racism the green light.

 

That would be better.

[Victorian]

That would be better.

what, the slogan or racism?

[Eggo]

Ive just sent another mail to the GFA,highlighting there blatant racism towards Zaliukas.

I will continue to do this,even if Im on my tod,to stop this nonsense from the Glasgow mafia.

[kevmacd]

Should be accompanied by a song too:

 

"S.F.A - Racist ****, S.F.A. - Racist ****" to the tune of "S.F.A. w@nk, w@nk, w@nk", and/or:

 

"The Referee's a Racist"

[Deevers]

Should Read :

 

RED CARD RACISIM - SHOWN BY THE SFA!

[Mr Romanov Saviour of HMFC]

Count me out.

 

Having been accused of racism on here it's extremely poor patter.

 

If anything it's an anti Hearts bias. How can you explain the likes of Fysass red card and many other incidents? Not all down to nationality.

[Victorian]

Count me out.

 

Having been accused of racism on here it's extremely poor patter.

 

If anything it's an anti Hearts bias. How can you explain the likes of Fysass red card and many other incidents? Not all down to nationality.

yes it is. every player has a nationality.

[John S]

Count me out.

 

Having been accused of racism on here it's extremely poor patter.

 

If anything it's an anti Hearts bias. How can you explain the likes of Fysass red card and many other incidents? Not all down to nationality.

 

Alan

 

Its simply about hitting back any way we can.

 

While they may not realise it, or even intend it, the treatment of Miko in particular has been racist. You say its not 'all down to nationality' and I'd agree, however, even if part of it is down to nationality (and it certainly seems to be) then that would be racist behaviour.

[Mr Romanov Saviour of HMFC]

Alan

 

Its simply about hitting back any way we can.

 

While they may not realise it, or even intend it, the treatment of Miko in particular has been racist. You say its not 'all down to nationality' and I'd agree, however, even if part of it is down to nationality (and it certainly seems to be) then that would be racist behaviour.

 

Fair enough John, I can certainly see your point.

 

I just reckon that if there was a Lithuanian at another club they would be treated like any other player.

 

I think it's more to do with the badge on your shirt rather than your birth place.

 

I'm not into all the 'SFA is against us' stuff but this has made me think twice.

[Drylaw Hearts]

What a load of bollocks.

[Charlie-Brown]

Fair enough John, I can certainly see your point.

I just reckon that if there was a Lithuanian at another club they would be treated like any other player.

 

I think it's more to do with the badge on your shirt rather than your birth place.

 

I'm not into all the 'SFA is against us' stuff but this has made me think twice.

 

There is another Lithuanian currently at another club - Andrius Velicka at Rangers....when he was with us he was harshly treated by referee's however when he played against us in August he went down very easily twice just like Boyd and Broadfoot also did in the same game however Velicka was treated very leniently just like every other Old Firm player whilst in the same game Mikoliunas was very harshly booked and then sent off.

 

There is definitely harsher treatment of Hearts lithuanian players than other players by SFA referee's - w@nkers!

[Mr Romanov Saviour of HMFC]

There is another Lithuanian currently at another club - Andrius Velicka at Rangers....when he was with us he was harshly treated by referee's however when he played against us in August he went down very easily twice just like Boyd and Broadfoot also did in the same game however Velicka was treated very leniently just like every other Old Firm player whilst in the same game Mikoliunas was very harshly booked and then sent off.

 

There is definitely harsher treatment of Hearts lithuanian players than other players by SFA referee's - w@nkers!

 

So now it's racism ... but only to HEARTS lithuanians. Not other teams Lithuanians?

 

That's like the KKK hating African Americans but not minding black Scottish people!

[Ron Burgundy]

There is another Lithuanian currently at another club - Andrius Velicka at Rangers....when he was with us he was harshly treated by referee's however when he played against us in August he went down very easily twice just like Boyd and Broadfoot also did in the same game however Velicka was treated very leniently just like every other Old Firm player whilst in the same game Mikoliunas was very harshly booked and then sent off.

 

There is definitely harsher treatment of Hearts lithuanian players than other players by SFA referee's - w@nkers!

 

An excellent point.

Happy New Year to you and the wife.

[N User]

Whether they are being harsh to a Hearts Lithuanian player compared to a Rangers Lithuanian player is not the issue.

 

A banner with "sfa - giving racism the green light." would be ideal criticism and would have to be noticed.

[Victorian]

it would be better if there was a stronger focal point to it. one single reason why certain things go on, whether that be racism, xenophobia, anti-hearts, anti-romanov.

 

the trouble is that a lot of what happens is often described as any one of the above and the issues get muddled and confused.

 

it's probably something that is detrimental to our cause but that's the way it seems to me and there doesn't seem much we can do to concentrate our efforts and attention on one single issue.

[Drylaw Hearts]

So now it's racism ... but only to HEARTS lithuanians. Not other teams Lithuanians?

 

That's like the KKK hating African Americans but not minding black Scottish people!

 

As I said......

 

What a load of bollocks.

 

The very suggestion that the SFA or it's Officials are anti-Lithuanian is propesterous.

 

Eg.

 

Zaliukas has only had 2 yellow cards this season whereas Michael Stewart has had 4.

 

Where does that fit in to the crazy theory ?

[Ron Burgundy]

As I said......

 

What a load of bollocks.

 

The very suggestion that the SFA or it's Officials are anti-Lithuanian is propesterous.

 

Eg.

 

Zaliukas has only had 2 yellow cards this season whereas Michael Stewart has had 4.

 

Where does that fit in to the crazy theory ?

 

WTF does propesterous mean?

 

You sound like a drunk Sherlock Holmes.:xmasgrin:

[Charlie-Brown]

So now it's racism ... but only to HEARTS lithuanians. Not other teams Lithuanians?

 

That's like the KKK hating African Americans but not minding black Scottish people!

 

No Hearts Lithuanian players are treated more harshly than other Hearts or other players for similar offences - Miko, Velicka, Ksanavicius all booked several times each for alleged simulation - don't remember too many other Hearts or Scots players being booked for that offence?

[Mr Romanov Saviour of HMFC]

No Hearts Lithuanian players are treated more harshly than other Hearts or other players for similar offences - Miko, Velicka, Ksanavicius all booked several times each for alleged simulation - don't remember too many other Hearts or Scots players being booked for that offence?

 

It's not racism though unless I'm missing something.

 

Racism surely means hatred towards a race of people, no?

 

You can't hate a race of people but not mind some people from said race.

 

And to answer your point ... they 3 players DO go down easily whether you like it or not.

[Drylaw Hearts]

WTF does propesterous mean?

 

You sound like a drunk Sherlock Holmes.:xmasgrin:

 

The fingers were going quicker than the brain.

 

It should have read 'preposterous'.

 

 

[N User]

Why is it Mikoliunas and Ksanavicius are booked for diving yet most Scottish players are not?* It may not be full-on racism but it there is certainly a huge element of predujice.

 

Similarly in this case with Zaliukas. Zaliukas is (rightfully) booked for waving a imaginary yellow card. Many Scottish players have done this this season without reprimand (notably numerous Aberdeen players against Hearts).

In a case where Zaliukas and Miller have a confrontation. Zaliukas is not the aggressor nor commits the original foul yet he is the one sent off. Predujice or Racism, it doesn't matter - it is wrong.

 

 

*Let's not be stupid enough to suggest Lithuanians dive more than Scottish players.

[davemclaren]

 

And to answer your point ... they 3 players DO go down easily whether you like it or not.

 

Correct - it's 'boy who cried wolf-ism' I'm afraid.

 

Brines is crap and can't admit he was wrong but there's no evidence he is racist.

[Victorian]

Why is it Mikoliunas and Ksanavicius are booked for diving yet most Scottish players are not?* It may not be full-on racism but it there is certainly a huge element of predujice.

 

Similarly in this case with Zaliukas. Zaliukas is (rightfully) booked for waving a imaginary yellow card. Many Scottish players have done this this season without reprimand (notably numerous Aberdeen players against Hearts).

In a case where Zaliukas and Miller have a confrontation. Zaliukas is not the aggressor nor commits the original foul yet he is the one sent off. Predujice or Racism, it doesn't matter - it is wrong.

 

 

*Let's not be stupid enough to suggest Lithuanians dive more than Scottish players.

i would refer that back to mine at #20. it would make things easier if we had one single reason to cite but these things tend to be put down to different reasons, whether that be racism, prejudice, anti-hearts etc etc.

 

it's not an ideal situation.

[Charlie-Brown]

It's not racism though unless I'm missing something.

 

Racism surely means hatred towards a race of people, no?

 

You can't hate a race of people but not mind some people from said race.

 

And to answer your point ... they 3 players DO go down easily whether you like it or not.

 

I didn't say it was racism AP that was some other poster - read my post again - I said Hearts Lithuanian players are treated harsher by referee's than other players are for similar offences, how can anyone dispute that?

 

Some examples:

 

Tannadice - Zaliukas sent off violent conduct - Wilkie escapes punishment same incident.

 

Velicka at Hearts booked for simulation - Velicka at Ibrox not booked for simulation (along with Boyd & ESPECIALLY Broadfoot)

 

Mikoliunas booked half a dozen times for simulation despite far worse from Nakamura, Clarkson, Mackie, Boyd, Broadfoot, Darcheville)

 

Pittodrie: Zaliukas sent off - Lee Miller escapes punishment

 

Pittodrie: Zaliukas booked for guesturing for a booking / Zander Diamond & other Dons not booked for exactly the same last season.

[Mr Romanov Saviour of HMFC]

I didn't say it was racism AP that was some other poster - read my post again - I said Hearts Lithuanian players are treated harsher by referee's than other players are for similar offences, how can anyone dispute that?

 

Some examples:

 

Tannadice - Zaliukas sent off violent conduct - Wilkie escapes punishment same incident.

 

Velicka at Hearts booked for simulation - Velicka at Ibrox not booked for simulation (along with Boyd & ESPECIALLY Broadfoot)

 

Mikoliunas booked half a dozen times for simulation depsite far worse from Nakamura, Clarkson, Mackie, Boyd, Broadfoot, Darcheville)

 

Pittodrie: Zaliukas sent off - Lee Miller escapes punishment

 

The thread is about racism and you are talking about unfair treatment of a race of players so I assumed that's what you meant!

 

I can't argue with the individual incidents you list. Anyone can make an argument go their way by using individual incidents. If I could be bothered I would go and google a few other incidents that contradict your point but you can have this one for now.

 

Off the top of my head I can think of two good honest Scottish laddies being booked for simulation - Broadfoot and Miller.

 

Anyway, we can debate till the cows come home. One certainty is that refs and Ian Brines in particular are not fit for the purpose for whatever reason and it's bloody frustrating.

[John S]

OK this is a difficult one for me to reconcile.

 

While I am open to the view that ?the establishment? may not be racist per se, it most certainly can be argued that Miko, Vlad et al are treated the way they are simply because they?re not Scottish. The point about Stewart?s bookings compared to Zali cannot or should not be used to illustrate a point simply because Stewart may have deserved his bookings (Scottish or not) while Zali may not have.

 

I started the thread to provoke some thought about how we may respond to the SFA. An accusation of racism, backed up with ?our evidence? may make the SFA uncomfortable, and may just prompt them to have a closer look at how they deal with Hearts.

 

I feel I?m not being very clear in my own personal view here, fwiw, I think we?re treated the way we are simply because the establishment is corrupt and will find a way to attack Hearts at every opportunity. Lithuanians, esp Miko are simply rich pickings. In my Heart I believe it stems back to Craig?s challenge of the SFA but Davisgate simply poured fuel on an already burning issue.

 

The bottom line for me is that Hearts are cheated regularly. If Hearts fans were to question whether these corrupt decisions were related to race, essentially related to an anti Lithuanian agenda where everyone connected at Hearts paid the price, I?d think that was a question worthy of further discussion, and not one simply to be discarded, or indeed believed without further examination.

 

For me its about fighting fire with fire and hoping someone will take notice.

[Feg9]

SHOWING RACISM WITH RED CARDS

 

A nice spin on the show racism the red card. I think its a great idea.

[Drylaw Hearts]

SHOWING RACISM WITH RED CARDS

 

A nice spin on the show racism the red card. I think its a great idea.

 

It's embarrassing.

[K1874M]

A simple comedy set of ****** and balls with an arrow pointing at it with a list of all the ref's next to it would be perfect. imo.

[Victorian]

A simple comedy set of ****** and balls with an arrow pointing at it with a list of all the ref's next to it would be perfect. imo.

do you have a source in mind for 13,000 comedy ****** & balls sets?

[Gizmo]

It's really xenophobia more than blatant racism - unfortunately that would make for a helluva long banner!

[K1874M]

do you have a source in mind for 13,000 comedy ****** & balls sets?

 

What about coloured cards in the wheatfield that will make a set... then on a massive flag from the top of section g to the bottom, have all the refs names? No?

 

We could get the red ultras to give us a hand, they've got previous of making their fans look like cocks.

[Victorian]

What about coloured cards in the wheatfield that will make a set... then on a massive flag from the top of section g to the bottom, have all the refs names? No?

 

We could get the red ultras to give us a hand, they've got previous of making their fans look like cocks.

beer on carpet moment.

[Gambo]

It's embarrassing.

 

It is embarrassing that there are Hearts fans out there who seem to enjoy our club, and especially the Lithuanians at the club, being singled out for different treatment wether it be by the referees or the media compared to the rest of the SPL.

 

Do you think Hearts players are treated in exactly the same way by referees as all other players are in the SPL?

 

Do you think our Lithuanian players find their name going into the book a lot quicker than others who commit a similar offence*?

 

Do you think the referees give our players, especially the Lithuanian players, the same benefit of doubt that they may give to players from other teams?

 

Do you think the coverage of our Lithuanian players in the media is as fair as it is to other players in the SPL who commit likewise* offences?

 

 

*This Saturday proved yet again that they do not even have to commit offences to be pounced upon.

 

 

Wether you rate a person as a player or from what ever country he is from should not come into it, when a Hearts player gets shafted by the officials or the media the fans should unite as one behind that player and the club. Racism may not be the correct word to use, but by god it is very close to it and as John S says it might make some people sit up and take notice of whats happening in our game.

 

Wether you like them or not, the treatment by the media and football in general of the Lithuanians who have come to our club wether in a playing sense or in an off the field role has imo been a disgrace to our country.

[neverlikedElvis]

As I said......

 

What a load of bollocks.

 

The very suggestion that the SFA or it's Officials are anti-Lithuanian is propesterous.

 

Eg.

 

Zaliukas has only had 2 yellow cards this season whereas Michael Stewart has had 4.

 

Where does that fit in to the crazy theory ?

 

 

 

most of what you post on here is a load of bollocks

[Francis Albert]

The distinguishing feature of the SFA is not racism. The main two are truly startling levels of incompetence and support for rather than any will to address or challenge in any way the single biggest problem in Scottish football - the OF duopoly.

 

That is not to say there is not quite a lot of generally low level racism in Scottish football, reflecting society as a whole, including no doubt - the SFA, SPL, referees, players, managers, the media and fans alike. Comments about cheating "not being part of the Scottish game", "that may be acceptable in Lithuania but not here", "he's an honest Scottish laddy" etc etc give it away. But it isn't institutional and I am sure it's worse in Lithuania and certainly in other parts of the former Soviet Union.

 

A misguided and therfore ineffectual line of attack, I believe.

[Drylaw Hearts]

It is embarrassing that there are Hearts fans out there who seem to enjoy our club, and especially the Lithuanians at the club, being singled out for different treatment wether it be by the referees or the media compared to the rest of the SPL.

 

Do you think Hearts players are treated in exactly the same way by referees as all other players are in the SPL?

 

Do you think our Lithuanian players find their name going into the book a lot quicker than others who commit a similar offence*?

 

Do you think the referees give our players, especially the Lithuanian players, the same benefit of doubt that they may give to players from other teams?

 

Do you think the coverage of our Lithuanian players in the media is as fair as it is to other players in the SPL who commit likewise* offences?

 

 

This Saturday proved yet again that they do not even have to commit offences to be pounced upon.

 

It's embarrassing that people think the SFA/Refs are being racist.

 

A quick glance at the stats would show you that Micheal Stewart and Lee Wallace have either a worse or similar disciplinary record than Marius Zaliukas this Season.

 

Micheal Stewart also had a worse disciplinary record than him last Season whilst Wallace was sent off the same amount of times.

 

 

How does that fit into any 'racist' theory ?

[MacDonald Jardine]

Correct - it's 'boy who cried wolf-ism' I'm afraid.

 

Brines is crap and can't admit he was wrong but there's no evidence he is racist.

 

How many other players in the SPL "go down easily"?

How many are singled out the way Miko in particular is?

[Drylaw Hearts]

most of what you post on here is a load of bollocks

 

:xmasgrin:

 

Prove my point wrong and I'll agree.

[MacDonald Jardine]

The distinguishing feature of the SFA is not racism. The main two are truly startling levels of incompetence and support for rather than any will to address or challenge in any way the single biggest problem in Scottish football - the OF duopoly.

 

That is not to say there is not quite a lot of generally low level racism in Scottish football, reflecting society as a whole, including no doubt - the SFA, SPL, referees, players, managers, the media and fans alike. Comments about cheating "not being part of the Scottish game", "that may be acceptable in Lithuania but not here", "he's an honest Scottish laddy" etc etc give it away. But it isn't institutional and I am sure it's worse in Lithuania and certainly in other parts of the former Soviet Union.

 

A misguided and therfore ineffectual line of attack, I believe.

 

Are we really in a position this season or in the foreseeable future to challenge the OF?

I can't see it.

 

As for your second point, you think there is racism at the SFA, SPL, among referees, players, fans and the media but it isn't a problem?

[shaun.lawson]

Alan

 

Its simply about hitting back any way we can.

 

While they may not realise it, or even intend it, the treatment of Miko in particular has been racist. You say its not 'all down to nationality' and I'd agree, however, even if part of it is down to nationality (and it certainly seems to be) then that would be racist behaviour.

 

But there's hitting back any way we can, John - then there's firing off in all sorts of crazy directions and allowing the essential point to be lost. Remember that "Cockney Mafia Out!" banner at St James Park a few months back? It was staggeringly ill advised, and most Toon fans I know washed their hands of it - because it played right into the media's lazy stereotypes about Newcastle supporters. Stereotypes, incidentally, which are accepted by most on here without a second thought.

 

Think what the media would do in this case. "Those Hearts fans really are paranoid, aren't they? First it was a conspiracy against their club - now it's a racist conspiracy against their club! Are they all as mad as their owner?" Miko's treatment hasn't been racist, John - it's been Miko-ist. Just as Robbie Savage's treatment by referees was based on his prior reputation - however fair or unfair - too.

 

What do we do instead? Write to Hearts in support of a campaign to change this ridiculous joke of an appeals system. Show your support for the players and manager at every game. Write to sensible journos like Bathgate, Spiers, Murray or Broadfoot, and ask them both for their views, and to highlight it in their pieces (as Barry Anderson did in the EEN last season; as Broadfoot did in his match report of the CIS semi against Rangers). But for God's sake - stop playing straight into their hands, and making Hearts fans look stupid! Such a response will achieve nothing other than to lose us what remaining sympathy we have within the media and among other supporters.

[Victorian]

How many other players in the SPL "go down easily"?

How many are singled out the way Miko in particular is?

that's one issue that makes me weep. hearts fans that still refuse to throw all their support behind miko and accuse him of still being completely culpable for the treatment he receives.

 

there can't possibly have ever been a player that has been subjected to the most ridiculously over-the-top hate/smear campaign worse than miko.

 

why are there still hearts fans who wont accept that simple fact?

[Drylaw Hearts]

that's one issue that makes me weep. hearts fans that still refuse to throw all their support behind miko and accuse him of still being completely culpable for the treatment he receives.

 

there can't possibly have ever been a player that has been subjected to the most ridiculously over-the-top hate/smear campaign worse than miko.

 

why are there still hearts fans who wont accept that simple fact?

 

Miko's problem is that he hasn't been exactly innocent when it comes to simulation etc.

 

He has created a reputation for himself and that reputation proceeds him onto the park.

 

The most ridiculous booking I've seen this Season involved Miko at Tynecastle (I can't remember v witch team though) where he was booked for his first slide tackle and IIRC he didn't even touch the player.

[djf]

I agree with DH. We have one of the most blatent cases of incompetence and cheating seen in years within the SPL and rather than use that concrete evidence to put pressure where required we seem to want to completely dilute that by bringing in subjectives and opinions.

 

Hearts spent money to appeal the decision as per the rules. Brines either ignored the appeal - in which case cheating - or completely got it wrong after seeing video evidence - in that case incompetence.

 

Both deserve harsh sentencing. Let's focus on getting that.

[Gambo]

It's embarrassing that people think the SFA/Refs are being racist.

 

A quick glance at the stats would show you that Micheal Stewart and Lee Wallace have either a worse or similar disciplinary record than Marius Zaliukas this Season.

 

Micheal Stewart also had a worse disciplinary record than him last Season whilst Wallace was sent off the same amount of times.

 

 

How does that fit into any 'racist' theory ?

 

I will ask again, do you think our Lithuanians (i did say racist was not the right word) are treated exactly the same as all other players in the SPL?

 

My opinion on the above question is that they are treated more harshly by referees than other players are who commit likewise offences. I also think they are treated very badly by the media here.

 

Wallace and Stewart will do something that brings the referees attention to them, a lot of the time imo they are treated more harshly than the oppossition in the same game, the Lithuanians on the otherhand imo have the referees looking out for something no matter how little so he can book them.