In defence of football reporters

[Guest zeeko1]

When I was a (much) younger man I worked as a sub editor for the Eastern Daily Press. Back in those days, there was no such thing as the internet, let alone message boards such as this one. These days, any fan with access to a computer can make their opinion known to vast numbers of fellow supporters, whether it's based on fact or not. Back in my day, part of a sports reporter's skill was to build up contacts within clubs and I see no reason why this would not still be the case today. When a reporter quotes 'sources within the club' it should not be assumed, as many on here seem to think, that the story is made up or lacks firm evidence to back it up. It is usually because the journalist is protecting his source. I think those who sling mud at any negative story involving Hearts are doing so not because they truly believe it's a 'non story' and that the media have some sort of agenda against Hearts, but because they simply DON'T LIKE THE STORY. I think any reasonable-minded Hearts fan would admit that the club has generated much of its own negative press by the way it has been run in recent years and that by and large the media are only reflecting how the club is perceived these days.

 

I'll get off my high horse now and admit I find much of what passes for 'news' in certain newspapers these days pretty distasteful, but when it comes to sport, and in this case, Hearts, I think a bit of realism is required by fans. There are many so-called 'experts' on all things Hearts nowadays thanks to this sort of forum, but the overwhelming majority actually know next to nothing about what's really going on in the club. In that respect I humbly venture to suggest that some of the flak thrown at football reporters for daring to write a negative story about the club is unjustified unless those slinging the fact have any evidence of their own to disprove a story.

[Hogan3012]

Shut up eh

[Ribble]

Sorry but it's a bit of 'boy cried wolf' syndrome, take banderson at the Hibsman as an example, the number of his negative stories that have either been disproved or rubbished by the club means that his 'exclusives' without quotes or evidence tend now not to be believed by the supporters!

[Boof]

I don't mind journalists reporting negative stories - if they're true.

 

I do object the papers NOT printing stories that are basically identical but feature a different club or clubs and making a big song and dance about it if it's Hearts and nary a chirp if it's one of the Bigot Brothers.

[shaun.lawson]

Newspapers and journalists are, in all too many cases, not what they once were. The Scotsman has gone rapidly downhill in recent years; the Daily Record simply a comic. I take reports from a number of journalists - Jackson, Young, the usual suspects - with more than a modicum of sodium chloride. And I can report with some sadness that even the Eastern Daily Press has headed in the same depressing direction.

 

However, I feel differently when it comes to Spiers, Bathgate, Cosgrove, Broadfoot or Murray - and more generally, agree with the broad thrust of the OP. The level of personal abuse dished out towards sportswriters by keyboard warriors since the advent of blogs is quite staggering; very often, simply because people only believe or hear what they want to. And this goes for fans of all clubs: everyone seems to assume that an 'agenda' is being pursued against their particular team, even when the opposite is often the case.

 

I wrote a piece on Chelsea a couple of years ago: back when Mourinho was in the process of falling out with Abramovich and Frank Arnesen. I researched and took my time over it; but sure enough, while many agreed with the thrust of what I was saying, other Chelsea fans insisted accounts in the press had no foundation. Why? Because they just didn't want to believe it: if true, it'd mean their greatest ever manager would be gone before long. Duncan Castles, writing in the Sunday Times, was quite obviously in the know - but this wasn't good enough for some.

 

It's only natural. We all love our club, and all want the best for it. But in most cases, the media are not the enemy - and really, just trying to do their job.

[Tiberius Stinkfinger]

Complete pesh !!

 

For a reporter such as Banderson why let the facts get in the way of a good story.

The cretin is only after selling papers & getting hits on the website.

He has had stories pulled hours after they have been on the site because they have been proven to be pesh.

He has stolen stories from here and iliveinacaravan.net on more than one occasion that have been wind-ups.

 

The guy is a lowclass hack with zero credibility.

[Denny Crane]

When I was a (much) younger man I worked as a sub editor for the Eastern Daily Press. Back in those days, there was no such thing as the internet, let alone message boards such as this one. These days, any fan with access to a computer can make their opinion known to vast numbers of fellow supporters, whether it's based on fact or not. Back in my day, part of a sports reporter's skill was to build up contacts within clubs and I see no reason why this would not still be the case today.

 

It still is

 

When a reporter quotes 'sources within the club' it should not be assumed, as many on here seem to think, that the story is made up or lacks firm evidence to back it up. It is usually because the journalist is protecting his source.

 

Correct - given that said source is a likely mine of information for weeks - if not years - to come

 

I think those who sling mud at any negative story involving Hearts are doing so not because they truly believe it's a 'non story' and that the media have some sort of agenda against Hearts, but because they simply DON'T LIKE THE STORY.

 

Might well have touched a nerve with most folk here

 

I think any reasonable-minded Hearts fan would admit that the club has generated much of its own negative press by the way it has been run in recent years and that by and large the media are only reflecting how the club is perceived these days.

 

Some handle such news responsibly, others don't. But the club should take care not to give out so much ammunition

 

I'll get off my high horse now and admit I find much of what passes for 'news' in certain newspapers these days pretty distasteful, but when it comes to sport, and in this case, Hearts, I think a bit of realism is required by fans.

 

I like a bit of optimism!

 

There are many so-called 'experts' on all things Hearts nowadays thanks to this sort of forum, but the overwhelming majority actually know next to nothing about what's really going on in the club. In that respect I humbly venture to suggest that some of the flak thrown at football reporters for daring to write a negative story about the club is unjustified unless those slinging the fact have any evidence of their own to disprove a story.

 

When such a story falls into a reporter's lap, he/she will have to go with it lest a competitor do it before them. If they suppress it - like some here may wish that they would - they do run the risk of losing their jobs.

[Romanov Stole My Pension]

Defence for football reporters - They give the thickos in this country (and particularly the old firm fans) what they want to read.

 

I just find the level of sports journalism in Scotland to be shockingly bad. Most of them have so little intelligence and their only real quality is their link to an old firm club in some way. I used to read the sun and record regulary, but it's just embarassing how much they suck up to the old firm and turn a negative spin on the other clubs and Hearts in particular. I've not bought either for about 2 years now.

 

There are a few good sports journalists and pundits in Scotland but they're extremely rare.

[IMA MAROON]

When I was a (much) younger man I worked as a sub editor for the Eastern Daily Press. Back in those days, there was no such thing as the internet, let alone message boards such as this one. These days, any fan with access to a computer can make their opinion known to vast numbers of fellow supporters, whether it's based on fact or not. Back in my day, part of a sports reporter's skill was to build up contacts within clubs and I see no reason why this would not still be the case today. When a reporter quotes 'sources within the club' it should not be assumed, as many on here seem to think, that the story is made up or lacks firm evidence to back it up. It is usually because the journalist is protecting his source. I think those who sling mud at any negative story involving Hearts are doing so not because they truly believe it's a 'non story' and that the media have some sort of agenda against Hearts, but because they simply DON'T LIKE THE STORY. I think any reasonable-minded Hearts fan would admit that the club has generated much of its own negative press by the way it has been run in recent years and that by and large the media are only reflecting how the club is perceived these days.

 

And in defence of the snakes selling their stories??????????

[Victorian]

banderson is a media troll, and an idiot.

 

he doesn't deserve the attention he's getting on this thread.

[Guest zeeko1]

Sorry but it's a bit of 'boy cried wolf' syndrome, take banderson at the Hibsman as an example, the number of his negative stories that have either been disproved or rubbished by the club means that his 'exclusives' without quotes or evidence tend now not to be believed by the supporters!

 

Living down here I can't buy the Scotsman and the website doesn't always attribute a byline to stories so I don't think I've studied enough of this particular reporter's stories to pass judgment, but just as a matter of interest do you have some examples of stories of his which have been 'disproved'? Just because a club 'rubbishes' a story doesn't mean it isn't true.

[shaun.lawson]

banderson is a media troll, and an idiot.

 

he doesn't deserve the attention he's getting on this thread.

 

How about Ewan Murray, victorian? Is he a troll as well?

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2008/dec/04/football-hearts-wages

[Guest zeeko1]

Newspapers and journalists are, in all too many cases, not what they once were. The Scotsman has gone rapidly downhill in recent years; the Daily Record simply a comic. I take reports from a number of journalists - Jackson, Young, the usual suspects - with more than a modicum of sodium chloride. And I can report with some sadness that even the Eastern Daily Press has headed in the same depressing direction.

 

However, I feel differently when it comes to Spiers, Bathgate, Cosgrove, Broadfoot or Murray - and more generally, agree with the broad thrust of the OP. The level of personal abuse dished out towards sportswriters by keyboard warriors since the advent of blogs is quite staggering; very often, simply because people only believe or hear what they want to. And this goes for fans of all clubs: everyone seems to assume that an 'agenda' is being pursued against their particular team, even when the opposite is often the case.

 

I wrote a piece on Chelsea a couple of years ago: back when Mourinho was in the process of falling out with Abramovich and Frank Arnesen. I researched and took my time over it; but sure enough, while many agreed with the thrust of what I was saying, other Chelsea fans insisted accounts in the press had no foundation. Why? Because they just didn't want to believe it: if true, it'd mean their greatest ever manager would be gone before long. Duncan Castles, writing in the Sunday Times, was quite obviously in the know - but this wasn't good enough for some.

 

It's only natural. We all love our club, and all want the best for it. But in most cases, the media are not the enemy - and really, just trying to do their job.

 

Indeed. I imagine the Scottish media gave plenty coverage to the other clubs which have, in recent years, been beset by severe financial problems (Dundee, Livingston, Airdrie and Gretna spring to mind) but how many Hearts supporters would have regarded those stories as without foundation or untrue? As you say, it's a different story when it's your own club and the media become an all-too easy target for fans' frustrations. The problems here, as I see it, are of Hearts' making, not the media's.

[Victorian]

How about Ewan Murray, victorian? Is he a troll as well?

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2008/dec/04/football-hearts-wages

i wouldn't say so no. i'm talking about banderson in particular, he's got lots and lots of 'previous' when it comes to misinformed / dubiously authenticated drivel that he gets past his sub-ed.

[shaun.lawson]

i wouldn't say so no. i'm talking about banderson in particular, he's got lots and lots of 'previous' when it comes to misinformed / dubiously authenticated drivel that he gets past his sub-ed.

 

I know: I think he's a crap journalist myself. But he was automatically attacked when he broke this story in the EEN - and oh look, it's turned out to be true.

[Victorian]

I know: I think he's a crap journalist myself. But he was automatically attacked when he broke this story in the EEN - and oh look, it's turned out to be true.

there is no doubt that there is something in the story. even banderson gets it right some times.

 

this whole financial situation has attracted an awful lot of coverage, most of which i am certain is guess work and exaggeration.

 

i'm totally turned off the whole thing until there is rock solid factual information being made available. it's actually starting to get boring.

[jambojim52]

Shaun, There is a difference in the manner of reporting any story. Banderson likes to stir it and many media outlets simply run with a story ,true or false. Ok lets take this story as true, The players it has been reported ( fact or fiction who knows) have had a meeting and they are OK with what they have been told.

Therefore Bandersons "tale" is simple stirring it.

The guardian appears to have a source inside the club or at least someone high enough to know what he is talking about. Banderson however takes what the paper boy says and uses that as a quote.

[Guest zeeko1]

Shaun, There is a difference in the manner of reporting any story. Banderson likes to stir it and many media outlets simply run with a story ,true or false. Ok lets take this story as true, The players it has been reported ( fact or fiction who knows) have had a meeting and they are OK with what they have been told.

Therefore Bandersons "tale" is simple stirring it.

The guardian appears to have a source inside the club or at least someone high enough to know what he is talking about. Banderson however takes what the paper boy says and uses that as a quote.

 

Further to my earlier question about this reporter's credibility. How do you KNOW he doesn't have a good source for his stories? Are you privvy to better information from within the club than he is?

 

I think the poll currrently running on this forum sums up this debate. While Over 60% agree Hearts do have a serious cash flow problem there are over 20% who don't agree. On what are they basing that disagreement, which flies in the face of what I would regard as pretty strong evidence to the contrary? I'd suggest they're basing it on the fact they don't WANT Hearts to have a serious cash flow problem, nothing more.

[jambojim52]

Further to my earlier question about this reporter's credibility. How do you KNOW he doesn't have a good source for his stories? Are you privvy to better information from within the club than he is?

 

I think the poll currrently running on this forum sums up this debate. While Over 60% agree Hearts do have a serious cash flow problem there are over 20% who don't agree. On what are they basing that disagreement, which flies in the face of what I would regard as pretty strong evidence to the contrary? I'd suggest they're basing it on the fact they don't WANT Hearts to have a serious cash flow problem, nothing more.

 

If I am ever up for murder I hope you are not on the jury. Try to deal with FACTS and not inuendo or suspicion. Banderson is well known for reporting rubbish and IF he has a serious source inside Tynie, I would be shocked.

You refer to the poll, voted on by people on here, that have no knowlage of what is FACT or fiction inside Tynie. A poll that has as much credability as Banderson himself.

What would you regard as pretty strong eveidence? Just because other media outlets have run with the story ,as yet there has been no official comment.

[Guest zeeko1]

there is no doubt that there is something in the story. even banderson gets it right some times.

 

this whole financial situation has attracted an awful lot of coverage, most of which i am certain is guess work and exaggeration.

 

i'm totally turned off the whole thing until there is rock solid factual information being made available. it's actually starting to get boring.

 

As somebody old enough to remember Watergate (long-running 70s investigation by journalists into corruption which eventually brought down a US President), I can assure you that probably the most famous journalistic investigation of all time would not have happened if 'rock solid' evidence was required every time the Washington Post published its latest revelations. It was more of a 'drip drip' feed of information, but pretty much all of it deadly accurate. I'm not saying the current situation at Hearts is comparable (although if the build-up of stories relating to the financial problems at Tynecastle ultimately conclude with the club going into administration, or worse, then it would be a very big story in Scottish football terms), but provided a journalist's sources are solid then readers shouldn't need to demand 'rock solid' evidence of a story's truth. Let's face it, if all these stories about Hearts were simply made up the club would long ago have taken the papers concerned to the Press Complaints Commission.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

In Banderson's case, a number of his "sensational" scoops have been completely without foundation. Coupled with his Daily ****** wannabe writing style and you can see why most Hearts fans fart in his general direction.

 

You then have other strokers like Keith Jackson whose 'angle' on a story involving us will include classics like "faceless nobodies" when talking about Eggert Jonsson.

 

It works both ways.

[Deevers]

Sorry i had to chuckle at the OP. Honest Journalists! Well I'm sure there are a few around. I can't help but think of the number of times over the years that the tabloids have appeared in civil courts being sued over some of the lies that have been printed in these rags. Most of those that write for some of the "red Tops" have little or no shame. Those old enough to remember the Falklands war may remember the Sun printing an exclusive interview with the widow of Sgt McKay VC. The disgusting facts were that they had never spoken to the woman, who had declined to be interviewed, however, they, the sun decided to make up the interview and print it anyway. That's how they treated the widow of a war hero. Honest journalism, don't make me boke.

 

As for Scottish sports journalist, I find it preferable to wait and find out the facts rather than be taken in by some of the detrimental drivel that they write as a matter of course about anyone outwith the old Firm.

[jambojim52]

Sorry i had to chuckle at the OP. Honest Journalists! Well I'm sure there are a few around. I can't help but think of the number of times over the years that the tabloids have appeared in civil courts being sued over some of the lies that have been printed in these rags. Most of those that write for some of the "red Tops" have little or no shame. Those old enough to remember the Falklands war may remember the Sun printing an exclusive interview with the widow of Sgt McKay VC. The disgusting facts were that they had never spoken to the woman, who had declined to be interviewed, however, they, the sun decided to make up the interview and print it anyway. That's how they treated the widow of a war hero. Honest journalism, don't make me boke.

 

As for Scottish sports journalist, I find it preferable to wait and find out the facts rather than be taken in by some of the detrimental drivel that they write as a matter of course about anyone outwith the old Firm.

 

This is exectly what I have been saying all day.

Between this tread, and the no wages one, I think there are only three of us that are unwilling to commit hari kari over a newspaper story.

[Deevers]

This is exectly what I have been saying all day.

Between this tread, and the no wages one, I think there are only three of us that are unwilling to commit hari kari over a newspaper story.

 

yep - to quote Kipling

 

"If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs and blaming it on you ;".

 

Wait and see - that's the best policy as far as this so called crisis is concerned.

[Buffalo Bill]

As long as the Romanovs run Hearts by methods outwith the norms of accepted business and football practice, then it will always be open season on us I'm afraid.

 

'Moral Panic', is the term I'd use.

 

 

Newspapers creating fear and reporting unrest sells copies.

 

...and I'm sad to report that Hearts digs it's own grave most of the time.

 

 

Buffalo Bill

 

.

[Buffalo Bill]

Are you trying to claim credit for the work of Stanley Cohen now?

 

WILL YOU STOP AT NOTHING BILL?!?

 

Sorry, I should have referenced him in my bibliography; Harvard system of course.

 

 

Buffalo Bill

 

.

[Walter Kidd]

Are you trying to claim credit for the work of Stanley Cohen now?

 

WILL YOU STOP AT NOTHING BILL?!?

 

Nope, he's changed.

[Buffalo Bill]

Walter Kidd/Borthers,

 

 

How about I download the Anfield Rap for you both one more time?

 

 

 

Buffalo Bill

 

.

[jambojim52]

Here's a piece on how smart our Journos are. Jackson in the ****** is talking about the Euro 2016 joint bid, and all he can say is Glasgow doesn't have enough hotel space.

No mention of Celtic park not being FIFA 5 graded. No mention of the fact that only TWO stadia per city is allowed.No mention of the fact that Tynie or the cow dung need upgraded or the Pittodriy is a *****e hole. He can't even report on the fact that we would probably neeed a stadium in Nth Ireland to comply.

And some on here think they are all worth listening to.

[Walter Kidd]

Walter Kidd/Borthers,

 

 

How about I download the Anfield Rap for you both one more time?

 

 

 

Buffalo Bill

 

.

 

Calm down calm down

[Gav Aitchison]

As someone who only sporadically reads the EEN, what are some of the stories that have been pulled/disproven?

 

If people are bemoaning the quality of journalism, they might look at the consistent cut backs by the firms in charge, rather than the individual journalists who are increasingly being given more and more work to do each day, for worse and worse pay. Accuracy and quality are bound to suffer when you pile more work on people.

[Guest zeeko1]

As someone who only sporadically reads the EEN, what are some of the stories that have been pulled/disproven?

 

If people are bemoaning the quality of journalism, they might look at the consistent cut backs by the firms in charge, rather than the individual journalists who are increasingly being given more and more work to do each day, for worse and worse pay. Accuracy and quality are bound to suffer when you pile more work on people.

 

It would certainly seem that Mr Anderson has been harshly criticised for yesterday's revelations now that the club has confirmed his story.

[The Don]

Banderson is a low life, gutter living, wannabe journo. Thats being kind.

 

Whether he reported this story or others and they turn out to be correct is neither here nor there, it is the manner in which he reports ALL stories connecting to Hearts. IM trying to think of the last one he had pulled from the Evening News but just before it was pulled his sub ed actually contradicted him in an article the very next morning in the Scotsman, putting him to shame, That was the time the Hearts web site released the statement rubbishing bandersons story and called him "Mischief making" it wasnt that long ago either, im sure there will be someone here that can remember it. This was not his only fabricated story though but one of the more recent ones.

 

We also have a presenter who shall remain nameless (Because im not allowed to name anyone who has not already posted on the thread) who openly admitted on JKB that there are certain Journos that DO HAVE an agenda against Hearts/Vlad, most people know who Im talking about so would also know he has access to many journos 2 of whom spring to mind immediately.

 

There are however journos i do respect, Speirs & Murray for a start. These reporters will give an unbiased view of a story whether it be negative or positive without having to sensationalise it, or add in little pieces of info that comes from their own personal agendas.

 

Basically anything written in the EEN/Daily ******/Septic Sun is taking completely with a pinch of salt, neither are publications i would even wipe my backside with now let alone buy. Ill read online if links are posted, or now and then pop onto the EN to have a quick look at the news that is about it. When i see a respected Journo or media outlet reporting a story or hear it from a more credible source thats when i really take interest and bother about it