Levein interview

[magicTs]

Must we tar the legacy and reputation of everyone who passes out the doors of Tynecastle?

 

Sadly we have some really simple, clueless and idiotic people amongst our support. They will swallow any old tosh and write all sorts of crap even if it means tarnishing the fantastic service given to HMFC by people like Levein, Mackay and Pressley. They really are muppets.

[Only a Game]

Craig Levein - A few FACTS.

 

He was a Hearts LEGEND as a player, despite his career being a tragically short one.

 

He was an average Hearts manager who's record compares averagely with any other Hearts manager who didnt actually win anything.

 

He left Hearts AFTER the fans protests had finished and it was confirmed that the reason for those protests was no longer valid. He chose instead to leave just at the point that Romanov was coming in.

 

He was an average manger at Leicester, perhaps even below average in that club's history (ask Leicester fans)

 

He is an average manager at Dundee Utd, having had good spells and bad spells with the same sets of players, just as he did whilst he was Hearts manager.

 

He would be welcomed back at Hearts tomorrow as a manager by a majority of Hearts fans despite his previous averageness.

[shaun.lawson]

Sadly we have some really simple, clueless and idiotic people amongst our support. They will swallow any old tosh and write all sorts of crap even if it means tarnishing the fantastic service given to HMFC by people like Levein, Mackay and Pressley. They really are muppets.

 

What's curious is so many seem to have the same views on everything. Most of those who slag off Levein also slagged off Pressley, and have consistently been among the most pro-Romanov posters; and some (though certainly not all) seem to have pretty dispiriting views on Rangers. It's very strange.

[shaun.lawson]

Craig Levein - A few FACTS.

 

He was a Hearts LEGEND as a player, despite his career being a tragically short one.

 

He was an average Hearts manager who's record compares averagely with any other Hearts manager who didnt actually win anything.

 

He left Hearts AFTER the fans protests had finished and it was confirmed that the reason for those protests was no longer valid. He chose instead to leave just at the point that Romanov was coming in.

 

He was an average manger at Leicester, perhaps even below average in that club's history (ask Leicester fans)

 

He is an average manager at Dundee Utd, having had good spells and bad spells with the same sets of players, just as he did whilst he was Hearts manager.

 

He would be welcomed back at Hearts tomorrow as a manager by a majority of Hearts fans despite his previous averageness.

 

Before Levein's arrival, Dundee United had achieved the following record since 1997: 7th, 9th, 8th, 11th, 8th, 11th, 5th, 9th, 9th. Practically a decade of abject misery - and when he took the job, they were bottom of the league with one solitary win to date that season. Given their improvement since, could you explain how on earth you conclude him to be an 'average' manager there?

 

Could you also explain how he, or indeed anyone else, could possibly have done any better while Hearts boss?

[Mr Romanov Saviour of HMFC]

Craig Levein - A few FACTS.

 

He was a Hearts LEGEND as a player, despite his career being a tragically short one.

 

He was an average Hearts manager who's record compares averagely with any other Hearts manager who didnt actually win anything.

 

He left Hearts AFTER the fans protests had finished and it was confirmed that the reason for those protests was no longer valid. He chose instead to leave just at the point that Romanov was coming in.

 

He was an average manger at Leicester, perhaps even below average in that club's history (ask Leicester fans)

 

He is an average manager at Dundee Utd, having had good spells and bad spells with the same sets of players, just as he did whilst he was Hearts manager.

 

He would be welcomed back at Hearts tomorrow as a manager by a majority of Hearts fans despite his previous averageness.

 

That's the only fact in amongst all of that I'm afraid. The rest is your (wrong) opinion.

[magicTs]

What's curious is so many seem to have the same views on everything. Most of those who slag off Levein also slagged off Pressley, and have consistently been among the most pro-Romanov posters; and some (though certainly not all) seem to have pretty dispiriting views on Rangers. It's very strange.

 

They can't think for themselves. I mean how sad are the 40+ year old erseholes who manipulate and indoctrinate some of the impressionable younger supporters in all the sectarian bullsh*t. Lowlife barstewards.

[jambos are go!]

What's curious is so many seem to have the same views on everything. Most of those who slag off Levein also slagged off Pressley, and have consistently been among the most pro-Romanov posters; and some (though certainly not all) seem to have pretty dispiriting views on Rangers. It's very strange.

 

Its not very strange on here to try and tar everyone a poster disagrees with as an idiot. This thread is full of it to the extent that its meaningless. Abuse taken so far is an admission of intellectual bankruptcy.

[shaun.lawson]

Its not very strange on here to try and tar everyone a poster disagrees with as an idiot. This thread is full of it to the extent that its meaningless. Abuse taken so far is an admission of intellectual bankruptcy.

 

Believe it or not, I agree!

[Bruno]

Anyone else hear Craig Levein's interview on the BBC radio sports programme last night?

 

When asked about his time at LCFC he said -

 

"To be honest I was just desperate to leave Hearts and took the first job that came up. There was too much going on at Hearts with fan's protests and I just wanted out"

 

Nice to hear a "Hearts Legend" saying that!

 

Craig Levein is talking balls. The protests were well and truely over by the time he left, due to the impending takeover of Romanov, which was so inevitable at that time that his approval was sought on the appointment of John Robertson. There could only be three possible reasons for Levein leaving at that time: his domestic situation, his ambition to manage in the Premiership or a suspicion that Romanov would want to bring in his own man. Personally I think it was his homelife that provoked the move, and believe the quote above is closest to the truth, in that by replacing a few words you get something that sounds a lot more believable:

 

"To be honest I was just desperate to leave Edinburgh and took the first job that came up. There was too much going on at home with my wife's protests and I just wanted out" - fits better for me.

[Only a Game]

Before Levein's arrival, Dundee United had achieved the following record since 1997: 7th, 9th, 8th, 11th, 8th, 11th, 5th, 9th, 9th. Practically a decade of abject misery - and when he took the job, they were bottom of the league with one solitary win to date that season. Given their improvement since, could you explain how on earth you conclude him to be an 'average' manager there?

 

Could you also explain how he, or indeed anyone else, could possibly have done any better while Hearts boss?

 

I think that stability of management has quite a lot to do with how Dundee Utd are fairing slightly better, and it is only slightly better IMO. How many mangers did they go through since 97 ? He manages an average team who habitually finish in an average position and dont do much else of note. That to me is a sign of his averageness in the whole scheme of football management either in Scotland or beyond (4th to 8th in a 12 team league is average by anyones measurement)

 

No I dont think many could have done much better than he did at Hearts. That in itself does not make him better than average in terms of Hearts managers. There are loads with better records who also won nothing and two who recently did win something who are not held in nearly the same regard that Levein was/is.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

I'd love to know why people are getting so worked up about this.

 

Craig Levein has given sterling service to HMFC as a player and a manager. He has his own opinion and own ideas. Unlike others, though, I don't class him as a legend because he never won anything, nor did he achieve any sort of club landmark. He maintains a deep affection for the club but he's a professional and he has a job to do.

 

And as for being fed up with life at Tynecastle at that time, it is understandable. Indeed, under Robbo, we had home gates that slipped into four figures so if he was feeling apathy, it was being shared by a significant number of our supporters.

[Only a Game]

That's the only fact in amongst all of that I'm afraid. The rest is your (wrong) opinion.

 

His record as a Hearts manager is average. Thats a fact.

 

His record as manager of Leicester is below average compared with previous and recent managers of that club. Also a fact.

 

If Csaba was sacked tomorrow and replaced with Levein the day after tomorrow the vast majority of Hearts fans would welcome it. I believe that to be a fact.

[shaun.lawson]

I think that stability of management has quite a lot to do with how Dundee Utd are fairing slightly better, and it is only slightly better IMO. How many mangers did they go through since 97 ? He manages an average team who habitually finish in an average position and dont do much else of note. That to me is a sign of his averageness in the whole scheme of football management either in Scotland or beyond (4th to 8th in a 12 team league is average by anyones measurement)

 

No I dont think many could have done much better than he did at Hearts. That in itself does not make him better than average in terms of Hearts managers. There are loads with better records who also won nothing and two who recently did win something who are not held in nearly the same regard that Levein was/is.

 

Hang on - Jefferies is (rightly IMO) held in higher regard by most of us! As I've written before, Jefferies was loved, Levein merely respected. And following your argument through, you seem to be saying that all managers of clubs outwith the OF are by necessity average.

 

Oh, and in terms of him 'winning nothing' - the gap between the OF and the rest while Levein was here (and in JJ's final couple of years) was preposterous and wholly insurmountable. The only non-OF club to win something over a period of eight years was, teehee, Livingston: they snuck through and took a rare opportunity, mainly because of the motivation provided by being in administration. But it was almost impossible to win something during that time: Celtic and Rangers were over the hills and far away.

[shaun.lawson]

His record as a Hearts manager is average. Thats a fact.

 

 

No it isn't. It's your opinion. In my opinion:

 

Burley = brilliant (but he wasn't here long enough to really know for sure)

 

MacDonald, Jefferies, Levein = good (to be joined, hopefully, by Csaba in time - but it's too soon to tell)

 

Jordan, Ivanauskas = average

 

Robertson, Clark, Frail = less than average

 

McLean = poor

 

Malofeev = an absolute shag disaster

[Del1812]

OAG - What are you on about?

 

Maybe it's just me. I started watching Hearts in 1992. So I've seen Jordan, Clark, McLean, Jeffries, Levein, Robertson, Burley, Rix, Ivanauskas, Malofeev, Korobochka, Chervenkov, Frail and Laszlo.

 

I'd say Levein was fairly above average as a Hearts manager. Even take it back another ten years you get McDonald, Moncur and Ford. Still very much above average.

 

And your opinion on his Dundee Unites stint is laughable. They are doing better because they have stabillity at the managerial position? Never occur to you they have stability at the manager position now because Craig Levein is a good manager?

 

As for the theme of the thread. I have no problems with the reason why Levein left Hearts. At the time he joined Leicester they were a underperforming team in the Championship who had asperations of the EPL, Hearts were in financial trouble and had a foreign owner coming in. Levein may have had nothing but nice things to say about Romanov but it's still a tricky situation for any manager so of course he took the gamble (which failed) to try and further his career.

 

I do have, and always will, have a problem with the timing. As stated previously, I really don't see why he couldn't have stayed for that last match against Schalke at Murrayfield. Still, it is nice that his last game was a win over Hibs .

[JT's & Irons]

No it isn't. It's your opinion. In my opinion:

 

Burley = brilliant (but he wasn't here long enough to really know for sure)

 

MacDonald, Jefferies, Levein = good (to be joined, hopefully, by Csaba in time - but it's too soon to tell)

 

Jordan, Ivanauskas = average

 

Robertson, Clark, Frail = less than average

 

McLean = poor

 

Malofeev = an absolute shag disaster

 

The football played under Burley, MacDonald and Jefferies was why I used to pay to watch football.

Under Robertson, Clark and Ivanauskus it was still worthwhile.

Under Levein there were times I'd rather have been cutting me grass.

Frail and Rix had their hands tied and can't really be blamed.

As for McLean, Jordan and Malofeev I wouldn't wish em on the Vermin

[magicTs]

His record as a Hearts manager is average. Thats a fact.

 

 

Did you know he was the first Hearts manager to lead us to consecutive 3rd place finishes since 1960 when we won the title having been runners up in 1959 ?

 

How the feck is that 'average' ?

[Charlie-Brown]

Did you know he was the first Hearts manager to lead us to consecutive 3rd place finishes since 1960 when we won the title having been runners up in 1959 ?

 

How the feck is that 'average' ?

 

Levein did indeed do better than 'average' and probably as good as was possible given available resources in 2003 & 2004 with consecutive 3rd's

 

However in his first 2 seasons 2001 & 2002 Hearts finished 5th in consecutive seasons which makes Levein's average finishing position over his whole term 4th (5 + 5 + 3 +3) / 4 seasons = 4th.

 

Hearts 'average' SPL finishing position since promotion in 1983 has been 4th so statistically speaking Levein's tenure perfectly matched our 'average' ....

[Charlie-Brown]

Levein predecessors;

Jefferies (4th 4th 3rd 6th 3rd) average = 4th average

McLean (6th) average = 6th below average

Clark (7th) average = 7th below average

Jordan (5th 2nd 5th) average = 4th average

MacDonald (5th 7th 2nd 5th 2nd 6th 3rd) average = 4th average

 

Levein's successors:

Robertson (5th) average = 5th below average

Burley/Rix/Valdas (2nd) average = 2nd better than average

Valdas/Frail/Korabotchka (4th) average = 4th average

Chervenkov/Frail (8th) average = 8th worse than average

[JT's & Irons]

Levein predecessors;

Jefferies (4th 4th 3rd 6th 3rd) average = 4th average

McLean (6th) average = 6th below average

Clark (7th) average = 7th below average

Jordan (5th 2nd 5th) average = 4th average

MacDonald (5th 7th 2nd 5th 2nd 6th 3rd) average = 4th average

 

Levein's successors:

Robertson (5th) average = 5th below average

Burley/Rix/Valdas (2nd) average = 2nd better than average

Valdas/Frail/Korabotchka (4th) average = 4th average

Chervenkov/Frail (8th) average = 8th worse than average

 

Thats all well and good but, to me you watch football to be entertained, outraged, excited and depressed.

Under Levein especially towards the end I was bored off me ead. If I wanted to watch that I'd start supporting Fulham

[TNCASTLE]

If that's what it takes....

 

And wiped debt. I am ALL for it!

[TNCASTLE]

Think so? Serious question:

 

Would you rather Hearts imploded and started again w/out VR?

 

OR

 

Hearts don't implode and VR stays indefinately - ie the status quo?

 

Hearts would never cease to exist. I'd buy them personally if that were to happen.

 

I am absolutely with you on that one Pal. Now some sense for a change.Fan buy-out could raise 20M + same again in Sponsorship EVEN in this climate.

The Clowns who think they own us can GTF.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

I am absolutely with you on that one Pal. Now some sense for a change.Fan buy-out could raise 20M + same again in Sponsorship EVEN in this climate.

The Clowns who think they own us can GTF.

 

Yes, because we never tried that before in recent times. Brilliant!

 

Oh, wait...

[TNCASTLE]

Yes, because we never tried that before in recent times. Brilliant!

 

Oh, wait...

 

I don't call what was "tried" before a serious effort. it was only foreplay at best.

[Coco]

No it isn't. It's your opinion. In my opinion:

 

Burley = brilliant (but he wasn't here long enough to really know for sure)

 

MacDonald, Jefferies, Levein = good (to be joined, hopefully, by Csaba in time - but it's too soon to tell)

 

Jordan, Ivanauskas = average

 

Robertson, Clark, Frail = less than average

 

McLean = poor

 

Malofeev = an absolute shag disaster

 

 

You can't have Levein in the same category as Doddie and JJ. Levein goes into the Jordan 'bucket' for me. Ivanauskas in beside the Hamster.

[PTBCAL]

Disappointed by Levein's dig at Gary MacKay - totally out of order.

 

Fact is that his extra maritial affairs were one of the main reasons he left town so quickly.

[The Real Maroonblood]

Disappointed by Levein's dig at Gary MacKay - totally out of order.

 

Fact is that his extra maritial affairs were one of the main reasons he left town so quickly.

 

I have not read the article.

What did he say about Gary?

[IMA MAROON]

Must we tar the legacy and reputation of everyone who passes out the doors of Tynecastle?

 

Not everyone. It depends why they left.

 

Other fans prefer to belittle and ridicule the players that are now at the club and doing their best for us, they even attack our saviour.

[The Real Maroonblood]

Not everyone. It depends why they left.

 

Other fans prefer to belittle and ridicule the players that are now at the club and doing their best for us, they even attack our saviour.

 

There are also some that accept everything that happens at the club is ok.

[Nucky Thompson]

What's curious is so many seem to have the same views on everything. Most of those who slag off Levein also slagged off Pressley, and have consistently been among the most pro-Romanov posters; and some (though certainly not all) seem to have pretty dispiriting views on Rangers. It's very strange.

I am only speaking for myself here. I am in the camp that is grateful to VR for saving my team. I slagged of Levein and Pressley only because in my eyes they were/are disrespecting my football club. I still regard JJ a legend even though he's a manager of one of our rivals. I will always regard Robbo and Gary Mackay is brilliant Hearts men. I hate Celtic with a passion but I couldn't give a toss one way or the other about Rangers.

[IMA MAROON]

There are also some that accept everything that happens at the club is ok.

 

Real fans.

[The Real Maroonblood]

Real fans.

 

:):)

[Charlie-Brown]

Levein, jordan, jefferies & macdonald all averaged out the same regards spl placings with poorer seasons spoiling their record in better ones.

[Charlie-Brown]

Jordan got 1 2nd, doddie got 2 2nds & 1 3rd, levein got 2 3rd, jefferies got 2 3rd, all managed to finish 5th or lower.

[Coco]

Levein, jordan, jefferies & macdonald all averaged out the same regards spl placings with poorer seasons spoiling their record in better ones.

 

Burley, early to mid JJ and Doddie were exceptional times and all made it wonderful to be a Hearts supporter. That is why they are in the top bracket of Hearts managers for me.

[Mr Romanov Saviour of HMFC]

His record as a Hearts manager is average. Thats a fact.

 

His record as manager of Leicester is below average compared with previous and recent managers of that club. Also a fact.

 

If Csaba was sacked tomorrow and replaced with Levein the day after tomorrow the vast majority of Hearts fans would welcome it. I believe that to be a fact.

 

No, they are not facts.

 

Until you have sat down and worked out every individual managers budget/players/situations in their time at Hearts/Leicester then you can't claim anything.

 

For example ... O'Neils time at Leicester is incomparible to Leveins due to the massively different budget/quality of players they both had at the time.

[4marsbars]

Levein, jordan, jefferies & macdonald all averaged out the same regards spl placings with poorer seasons spoiling their record in better ones.

 

All this talk of averages is very well but not a sufficient measure of performance. In fact, it's a pretty useless measure.

 

What is more important is the direction of travel. Levein took over a team in decline and reversed that. He's done the same at Tannadice, and did the same at Cowden (I think).

 

His last two seasons resulted in consecutive 3rd place finishes. That's a better measure of what he built.

 

To put it another way:

 

Manager A's finishes were: 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th

 

Manager B's finishes were: 6th, 5th, 4th, 3rd, 2nd, 1st

 

They both have the same "average" but who would you rather have?

 

This being Kickback, expect a few who will go for Manager A.

 

(The other striking thing about the averages discussion is how few managers who were around long enough to have an average worth calculating)

[Charlie-Brown]

Jordan, levein, jefferies, macdonald all had 3+ seasons so averages are relative when discussing their merits imo.

[ando]

Craig Levein as a footballer without the injuries would have a been a top player with a big club but that never happened and HMFC looked after him very well.

 

Craig Levein as a manager did very well but let himself down at the end but to me he will never be a legend.

 

some reasons why.dens park , starks park. as a player

 

tynecastle not fit for purpose ( but was fit for purpose for his two benifit games )

 

doing his best to get rid of some players with the same type of injury as he had when he was a player

 

leaving us at the time to go down south.

[4marsbars]

 

some reasons why.dens park ,

 

For goodness sake, do you really think a player would cop out of the chance of the chance of winning a trophy? He had a tummy bug.

[Guest S.U.S.S.]

For goodness sake, do you really think a player would cop out of the chance of the chance of winning a trophy? He had a tummy bug.

 

"a tummy bug" Was he 7?

 

Awww wittle baby has a bad tummy.

 

 

[4marsbars]

Jordan, levein, jefferies, macdonald all had 3+ seasons so averages are relative when discussing their merits imo.

 

not sure what you mean "averages are relative"?

 

My point is that if a team is poor when you take over that will bring your average down. Average would be a good measure for someone who's been in post for a long time, but you should still exclude the first couple of seasons.

 

Given how short the average Hearts manager career is, average league position tells you very little.

 

Whether you left the team in a better position than when you started is a much better measure.

 

Unfortunately for the doubters, Levein performs well on that measure.

[4marsbars]

"a tummy bug" Was he 7?

 

Awww wittle baby has a bad tummy.

 

 

 

 

So what's your intepretation of Levein's role on that fateful day?

 

(edit) the only babies around here are the ones having tantrums because Levein left us; but if they were so against him why so sad that he went?

[Charlie-Brown]

not sure what you mean "averages are relative"?

 

My point is that if a team is poor when you take over that will bring your average down. Average would be a good measure for someone who's been in post for a long time, but you should still exclude the first couple of seasons.

 

Given how short the average Hearts manager career is, average league position tells you very little.

 

Whether you left the team in a better position than when you started is a much better measure.

 

Unfortunately for the doubters, Levein performs well on that measure.

 

We went up & down a couple of times in MacDonald & Jefferies reigns, we improved under Jordan & Levein then fell back a bit, the league position the year after each of these managers left AMcD 5th, Jordan 7th, Jefferies 5th, Levein 5th suggests all these managers left when the club was on a down-swing - therefore the only way to assess their whole term in charge is how did they average out? All of them improved Hearts team for a time, some more than once.

[bigandy]

Well at least it's better than saying he had the flu!! Oh hold on he's used that one before hasn't he.

 

He said all the right things when he took the Leicester job. Im sure thier board will be over the moon to hear he took thier money just to get out of Edinburgh.

 

I dont mind the guy but he tries too hard to come over all school masterly in my opinion. He built a succesful but very dull Hearts team. I'm sure if VR had left Burley alone for a season or 2 we wouldnt be even in the slightest bit bothered about CL. But that in turns proves the point he was probably right to leave in the first place.

 

I'm not overly bothered what Levein thinks about us the fans or the club. His Dundee United team are workmanlike with maybe 1 or 2 quality players, but then again so where we.

 

I have heard this crap before but can I ask why anyone thinks a young player who had been outstanding all season would want to delibrately miss the biggest game of his career? Did he WANT Hearts to loose the league that day? Would a half fit Craig Levien on the park at Dens changed the outcome? Do you think that he didnt push himself to play in the game because Hearts winning the lleague that day didnt really matter to him? I'd just like the conspiracy theorists clear up for me a/ exactly what they are accusing Craig Levien of doing in 1986? and b/ why they think he did it and/or what was in it for him?

[lambojambo]

Jordan got 1 2nd, doddie got 2 2nds & 1 3rd, levein got 2 3rd, jefferies got 2 3rd, all managed to finish 5th or lower.

 

 

Lest we forget JJ won us the Cup in 98.

 

And for guys like me that suffered watching Hearts for over 30 years without winning anything that makes him a TRUE Hearts Legend!

[4marsbars]

I have heard this crap before but can I ask why anyone thinks a young player who had been outstanding all season would want to delibrately miss the biggest game of his career? Did he WANT Hearts to loose the league that day? Would a half fit Craig Levien on the park at Dens changed the outcome? Do you think that he didnt push himself to play in the game because Hearts winning the lleague that day didnt really matter to him? I'd just like the conspiracy theorists clear up for me a/ exactly what they are accusing Craig Levien of doing in 1986? and b/ why they think he did it and/or what was in it for him?

 

Bigandy, I was like you, but it suddenly all makes sense.

 

Chraig Levhein is, in fact, Celtic-minded, and has been all along. When the chance arose to assist them in 1986, not only did he become ill, he also infected half the Hearts team. The rest is history.

 

The following week, final against Aberdeen, didn't matter to him because it had no bearing on Celtic, so he was fit enough for that.

 

Fast forward a few years and he's become manager of Dundee Hibernians. He seems settled there but drops hints that there might be bigger jobs that would interest him. There is such a job. Strachan, your days are numbered.

 

It was all right in front of me, and the "true Hearts fans" knew it, but it's taken me so long to figure it all out.

 

And I thought he was a legend.

[shaun.lawson]

You can't have Levein in the same category as Doddie and JJ. Levein goes into the Jordan 'bucket' for me. Ivanauskas in beside the Hamster.

 

Coco - you do realise Levein's league record was actually better than JJ's? And I hold JJ in higher regard - but still...

 

Incidentally, I forgot Rix in my list. He'd be second bottom - above Malofeev, below the Hamster.

[Guest S.U.S.S.]

So what's your intepretation of Levein's role on that fateful day?

 

(edit) the only babies around here are the ones having tantrums because Levein left us; but if they were so against him why so sad that he went?

 

He was not the only hearts player that was ill that day iirc. Others tho got out of bed and got on with it. A number of players are still upset by his actions that day.

 

Tantrums? why because he left at the worst possible time for Hearts? He is an arse imo for leaving at the time he did.

[4marsbars]

He was not the only hearts player that was ill that day iirc. Others tho got out of bed and got on with it. A number of players are still upset by his actions that day.

 

Tantrums? why because he left at the worst possible time for Hearts? He is an arse imo for leaving at the time he did.

 

Good grief. If you've ever been part of a group, e.g. family or a school class, that all caught the same bug you'll know that they go down at different times, some are recovering whilst others are clutching their stomachs.

 

Imagine you're part of a non-OF team on the brink of winning the league. You're not going to miss out on that occasion unless there's something seriously wrong.

 

And wouldn't the club doctor have a view about who's recovered, who's still infectious, who should travel etc.

 

Kickback often feels like a parallel universe but this fantasy of yours is just amazing. It's almost as if you believe what you write. Quite astonishing.