Must they really drag this on? FRESH WAGE ROW

[walton1983]

So you don't know. Fair enough.

 

I've never read a "normal football contract" but in all the jobs I've had which involved bonuses, the bonus was "non-contractual" and the bonus scheme could be changed at the employer's discretion.

 

Anyway, I've not heard any hint (even an unattributed quote) or seen any sign that any player is upset about bonus payments.

 

Bonus payments are part of a players contract. That doesn't mean that the players are unhappy. They may have agreed that they can be paid in January. When the first problem occurred we were told it wouldn't happen again but it has and time will tell if there is a real problem.

[davjambo]

As much as i hate the tripe in the papers with there bias views. Someone has to be going to the media and telling them this 'juicy story'. Who is the mole

 

It's the daily record, you don't need a mole, when you have invention.

[Seymour M Hersh]

I'm wokring on the presumpiton they are paid weekly, as per normal football contracts.

 

Ah but there's the thing JR most teams now pay their players monthly which would appear to be simpler and therefore less open to blips and glitches. I was in a meeting this very morning with someone who has done a lot of business between the Baltic states and the UK. He said that money transfers between the countries would regularly go missing for 4 or 5 days.

[Jamboy81]

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/football/spl/2008/12/02/new-wage-row-at-hearts-as-players-finally-get-paid-but-fail-to-receive-win-bonuses-86908-20940076/

 

Somehow they always find away to make it seem winning matches is bad for us, especially against there favorite vermin.

 

Really why do they waste thier time printing this tripe....

 

What do you want them to do? Ignore the story? Instances of clubs not paying wages are pretty rare and when it does happen it usually means the club concerned is in financial trouble. Once a season could (possibly) be seen as a glitch, but twice now points to UBIG/Ukio being in deep financial sh*t IMO. Off course - It shouldn't be that surprising when we're seeing the world's biggest financial organisations like HBOS going down the toilet that the 3rd biggest bank in Lithuania would also be in trouble as well.

 

Or we could just pretent like it isn't happening and only talk about nice fluffy bunny rabbits?

[Walter Kidd]

No one cares about your Hobonomics HOG.

[Gambo]

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/football/spl/2008/12/02/new-wage-row-at-hearts-as-players-finally-get-paid-but-fail-to-receive-win-bonuses-86908-20940076/

 

Somehow they always find away to make it seem winning matches is bad for us, especially against there favorite vermin.

 

Really why do they waste thier time printing this tripe....

 

Could someone explain why the players would be brewing a bust up with club over non payment in the wages received on Monday of bonuses for the Rangers game? The Record lists the Rangers game as one of the games the players are ready to brew a bust up over.

[Genghis Khan]

I know as someone who works everyday with HBOS banking and also has some involvement in a payroll that the likiehood of this being completely not to blame of Ubig/Club being extremely low.

 

You yourself have no knowledge of were the problem lay, I just think its very sad how so many apologists out there run around completely missing the issue and making excuses for complete mismanagement and incompetence.

 

Mistakes like this could kill hearts.

 

I'm no "apologist" and I said right up front I had no idea where the problem lay.

 

You, on the other hand, were determined to lay the blame at anyone remotely connected with the club you claim to "support" without having the first idea of what actually went on. "Mistakes" like you are more likely to damage this club IMO.

[Boris]

No one cares about your Hobonomics HOG.

 

"Mistakes" like you are more likely to damage this club IMO.

 

[davjambo]

What do you want them to do? Ignore the story? Instances of clubs not paying wages are pretty rare and when it does happen it usually means the club concerned is in financial trouble. Once a season could (possibly) be seen as a glitch, but twice now points to UBIG/Ukio being in deep financial sh*t IMO. Off course - It shouldn't be that surprising when we're seeing the world's biggest financial organisations like HBOS going down the toilet that the 3rd biggest bank in Lithuania would also be in trouble as well.

 

Or we could just pretent like it isn't happening and only talk about nice fluffy bunny rabbits?

 

I'd say rarely reportedwas nearer the mark, i'm not saying its impossible that UBIG are in financial trouble, but it's a bit far fetched to assume it's true because the daily record reports it, i mean their always right aren't they.

[Tasavallan]

Guilty, m'lud! As guilty as a puppy sitting next to a pile of poo, in fact.

Kudos. You made me laugh, you did.

 

 

I do not beleive that UBIG are going belly up but I am of the opinion that they have cashflow problems and are looking to restructure its expenditure until maket conditions recover.

[Genghis Khan]

I'd say rarely reportedwas nearer the mark, i'm not saying its impossible that UBIG are in financial trouble, but it's a bit far fetched to assume it's true because the daily record reports it, i mean their always right aren't they.

 

He can't have been talking about UBIG - they're not a bank - and he can't have been talking about UKIOS as they are not the 3rd biggest bank in Lithuania.

 

In short, who knows what he is on about?

[shaun.lawson]

Kudos. You made me laugh, you did.

 

 

I do not beleive that UBIG are going belly up but I am of the opinion that they have cashflow problems and are looking to restructure its expenditure until maket conditions recover.

 

I agree, Tas.

[Jamboy81]

I'd say rarely reportedwas nearer the mark, i'm not saying its impossible that UBIG are in financial trouble, but it's a bit far fetched to assume it's true because the daily record reports it, i mean their always right aren't they.

 

No, but taking into account the fact that Hearts have twice this season failed to pay wages on time, taking into account The Romanovs ability to ****** things up, and taking into account the current financial climate, which has seen banks 100 x the size of UKIO go to the wall, I'd say it is more likely that the story has substance than not.

 

Just my opinion though

[davjambo]

No, but taking into account the fact that Hearts have twice this season failed to pay wages on time, taking into account The Romanovs ability to ****** things up, and taking into account the current financial climate, which has seen banks 100 x the size of UKIO go to the wall, I'd say it is more likely that the story has substance than not.

 

Just my opinion though

 

Well I beg to differ.

[Feeno]

Indeed I had.

 

 

 

Nope, I was responding to a point made, with a point of my own. It was being discussed on here, so I gave my opinion.

 

I presume you just glossed over the fact that I'm just giving my opinion, so that you continue following me around having a go at me?

 

Maybe if you stopped postin pish all the time I wouldnt have to follow you around having a go. Your more likely to keep postin that pish to eh

[Guest JamboRobbo]

Ah but there's the thing JR most teams now pay their players monthly which would appear to be simpler and therefore less open to blips and glitches. I was in a meeting this very morning with someone who has done a lot of business between the Baltic states and the UK. He said that money transfers between the countries would regularly go missing for 4 or 5 days.

 

In which case, the solution, if you want to avoid a repeat (as we said we would last time it happened), is surely to set off the money transfer 4 or 5 days earlier?

[Jamboy81]

Maybe if you stopped postin pish all the time I wouldnt have to follow you around having a go. Your more likely to keep postin that pish to eh

 

[redm]

Chomskyte-McGeever said...

"We are trying to introduce new motivation systems so that the club stay in third place. We are working on that and thinking of the best way to deal with players to keep them going in the same direction. This is a club issue, though."

 

...and it would be a whole lot more believable if they'd mentioned it any other time. But the same weekend that the wages don't show up? Hmm.

 

Maybe this is exactly what they're doing, but I'm not convinced that it's simply a revision of the staff benefits for the purposes of increasing motivation. Neglecting to pay the caterers won't affect the players or the results, but this stuff will do...eventually...

 

Get it sorted Vlad. This really isn't the time to dick about.

[Francis Albert]

What do you want them to do? Ignore the story? Instances of clubs not paying wages are pretty rare and when it does happen it usually means the club concerned is in financial trouble. Once a season could (possibly) be seen as a glitch, but twice now points to UBIG/Ukio being in deep financial sh*t IMO. Off course - It shouldn't be that surprising when we're seeing the world's biggest financial organisations like HBOS going down the toilet that the 3rd biggest bank in Lithuania would also be in trouble as well.

 

Or we could just pretent like it isn't happening and only talk about nice fluffy bunny rabbits?

 

But no-one is talking about the impact on Scottish football clubs of the FACT of HBOS going down the toilet. Instead the media instead seems full of speculation about the impact on one Scottish club of the mere POSSIBILITY of UKIOS Bank going the same way. Isn't that a bit strange?

[Examiner]

I know as someone who works everyday with HBOS banking and also has some involvement in a payroll that the likiehood of this being completely not to blame of Ubig/Club being extremely low.

 

You yourself have no knowledge of were the problem lay, I just think its very sad how so many apologists out there run around completely missing the issue and making excuses for complete mismanagement and incompetence.

 

Mistakes like this could kill hearts.

 

You use internet banking to check your wages then?

[Jamboy81]

But no-one is talking about the impact on Scottish football clubs of the FACT of HBOS going down the toilet. Instead the media instead seems full of speculation about the impact on one Scottish club of the mere POSSIBILITY of UKIOS Bank going the same way. Isn't that a bit strange?

 

Not really, because as far as i know HBOS don't own any Scottish Football Clubs.

[Francis Albert]

Not really, because as far as i know HBOS don't own any Scottish Football Clubs.

 

Neither does UKIOS Bank.

[Drylaw Hearts]

In which case, the solution, if you want to avoid a repeat (as we said we would last time it happened), is surely to set off the money transfer 4 or 5 days earlier?

 

 

 

And I suppose it's just a coincidence that it's happened twice within a matter of weeks after running smoothly for the last couple of years !!!!

 

A solution to this whole problem is extremely simple.........but it's only simple if you have don't have a serious cash flow problem.

 

It's obvious we do and UBIG/VR need to ensure the non-payment of players ON TIME never, ever happens again.

 

They need to give the Club a working capital that ensure they have enough to cover employee salaries for a minimum period of 3 weeks to begin with and then deposit more on a weekly basis - this gives a 2 week buffer just incase there are anymore blips/glitches/feck-ups.

 

I'm sure a players contract could become nil and void if he isn't paid as per the terms.

[Jamboy81]

Neither does UKIOS Bank.

 

No, but the small print isn't all that clear on who owns what within Hearts between Ukio and UBIG (being the parent company) If Ukio went bust would UBIG be obliged to support Hearts? I'm not sure. What is clear is that Ukio like most banks are probably in financial trouble of some sort, and (at the very least) as the main sponsor sooner or later it will have repercussions for Hearts.

[N User]

15000 at the game on Sat.

Another 2000 at ?20 a ticket and you have ?40k.

 

Come on you stay away fans, get along and pay the win bonuses

[bigbadbill]

I don't suppose anyone knows if the Daily Record are taking such a keen interest in the salary arrangements of any other Scottish club. I understand that a club in the first division is having difficulties meeting their financial obligations. Coverage of that in the Daily Record has been minimal. The East European connection makes the method of payment at Hearts pretty unique and one would expect the media perhaps to take that into consideration. Or perhaps there is another agenda they are pursuing.

[Coco]

But no-one is talking about the impact on Scottish football clubs of the FACT of HBOS going down the toilet. Instead the media instead seems full of speculation about the impact on one Scottish club of the mere POSSIBILITY of UKIOS Bank going the same way. Isn't that a bit strange?

 

Good point, and something which could weigh heavily on clubs which had depended on HBoS' largesse in the past.

 

Everyone but us and Celtic?

 

But do any of those clubs get their accounts signed off on the basis of the support of the bank/owner? I don't know.

[Rawrrrrrrr]

I don't suppose anyone knows if the Daily Record are taking such a keen interest in the salary arrangements of any other Scottish club. I understand that a club in the first division is having difficulties meeting their financial obligations. Coverage of that in the Daily Record has been minimal. The East European connection makes the method of payment at Hearts pretty unique and one would expect the media perhaps to take that into consideration. Or perhaps there is another agenda they are pursuing.

 

 

There has been articles about Livi yes, maybe not to the same degree, but then Hearts are bigger, and more part of scottish football historically.

[Drylaw Hearts]

I don't suppose anyone knows if the Daily Record are taking such a keen interest in the salary arrangements of any other Scottish club. I understand that a club in the first division is having difficulties meeting their financial obligations. Coverage of that in the Daily Record has been minimal. The East European connection makes the method of payment at Hearts pretty unique and one would expect the media perhaps to take that into consideration. Or perhaps there is another agenda they are pursuing.

 

What do you think will interest the majority of Scottish football supporters more :

 

Hearts not paying their players on time again ?

 

Livi being in a financial mess again ?

 

 

Let me see..........

 

 

 

[Therapist]

But do any of those clubs get their accounts signed off on the basis of the support of the bank/owner? I don't know.

 

If there aren't appropriate covenants and guarantees in place, many clubs would be technically insolvent. The Directors of said clubs would commit an offence if they allow the club to trade while insolvent.

[Francis Albert]

No, but the small print isn't all that clear on who owns what within Hearts between Ukio and UBIG (being the parent company) If Ukio went bust would UBIG be obliged to support Hearts? I'm not sure. What is clear is that Ukio like most banks are probably in financial trouble of some sort, and (at the very least) as the main sponsor sooner or later it will have repercussions for Hearts.

 

This is desperately weak stuff. So what it comes down to is that because other banks are in trouble UKIOS is "probably" in trouble "of some sort" and if they go under we will "at the very least" lose our shirt sponsorship. I am not sure this would even pass muster on hibs.net.

[Francis Albert]

It's obvious we do and UBIG/VR need to ensure the non-payment of players ON TIME never, ever happens again.

 

They need to give the Club a working capital that ensure they have enough to cover employee salaries for a minimum period of 3 weeks to begin with and then deposit more on a weekly basis - this gives a 2 week buffer just incase there are anymore blips/glitches/feck-ups.

 

I'm sure a players contract could become nil and void if he isn't paid as per the terms.

 

If the businesses of Vlad's empire have cash flow problems (and as others have said it would be surprising if they or parts of them didn't) , a policy of locking up cash for weeks to absolutely guarantee players and other creditors and counterparties will never in any circumstances ever have to wait one banking day would certainly greatly exacerbate those problems.

[Genghis Khan]

This is desperately weak stuff. So what it comes down to is that because other banks are in trouble UKIOS is "probably" in trouble "of some sort" and if they go under we will "at the very least" lose our shirt sponsorship. I am not sure this would even pass muster on hibs.net.

 

Oh yes it would - because that's where it came from.

 

 

Classic Hobonomics.

[Colonel Kurtz]

This is desperately weak stuff. So what it comes down to is that because other banks are in trouble UKIOS is "probably" in trouble "of some sort" and if they go under we will "at the very least" lose our shirt sponsorship. I am not sure this would even pass muster on hibs.net.

He must have been reading The Financial Tims

[argyjambo]

Daily Record & other west coast so -called journos & pundits. I'm with Luis Cesar Menotti on this one.................

Lock them all up in a room for a fortnight, and without exception, they would all struggle to write a letter home to their mothers.

 

Impossible for them to write to their fathers:

 

1 they cant write

2 they are unknown to them

[Drylaw Hearts]

If the businesses of Vlad's empire have cash flow problems (and as others have said it would be surprising if they or parts of them didn't) , a policy of locking up cash for weeks to absolutely guarantee players and other creditors and counterparties will never in any circumstances ever have to wait one banking day would certainly greatly exacerbate those problems.

 

We need to be in a position to GUARENTEE our players are paid on time - everytime.

 

As I said previously.....

 

I'm pretty sure these players are within there rights to walk away from their contract if the terms they agreed to are not met.

 

When Gretna couldn't meet the deadline for players salaries, 1/2 their First Team Squad were made free agents.

 

That is not a route we can go down so UBIG need to use some of the money we've taken for players over the last couple of years and at least make it available for players salaries before Berra, Kinsgton and Bruno' Agents and the SPFA get involved.

[Victorian]

absolute coma inducing stuff from the daily rioter today.

 

perhaps a little irked that the 2nd wages delay was resolved reasonably quickly, the desperados have jumped on to the bonus payments as a consolation prize. they obviously see this particular issue as one which will be ongoing, therefore they will be able to squeeze some mileage out of it.

 

the lurid headlines and the innuendo contained within the various column inches mean diddly squat of course, i seriously doubt anyone of a hearts persuasion will even begin to take this cobblers at face value. it just seems to be a ritual process nowadays to print the same tired old drivel which nobody will believe anyway. in the same way that red-tops print meaningless space fillers about the OF in order to pad out the sports sections, it seems hearts are utilised as some kind of punch bag in order to create sensational headlines.

 

great lads, well done. degrees in journalism put to good use then.

 

the only other thing that these ongoing shenanigans prove is that the people behind them have little or no imagination, one trick ponies.

 

i've said it before and i'll say it again... these goons should be excluded from tynecastle and riccarton with immediate effect. would the treatment get any worse? probably.... but who gives a s***?

[David Brent]

It's all really quite simple. Hearts UK bank is HBOS, who won't provide the club with a larger O/D than ?100K because they don't hold any securities.

 

UBIG could deposit a larger cash sum into the account to cover any eventualities. But they won't.

[Drylaw Hearts]

It's all really quite simple. Hearts UK bank is HBOS, who won't provide the club with a larger O/D than ?100K because they don't hold any securities.

 

UBIG could deposit a larger cash sum into the account to cover any eventualities. But they won't.

 

Or give HBOS the Deeds to Tynecastle again as security.

 

But they won't.

 

 

With only one home match during December thus meaning very little money hitting the Clubs coffers in the coming weeks my gut feeling is there will be another blip sometime soon.

[Genghis Khan]

absolute coma inducing stuff from the daily rioter today.

 

perhaps a little irked that the 2nd wages delay was resolved reasonably quickly, the desperados have jumped on to the bonus payments as a consolation prize. they obviously see this particular issue as one which will be ongoing, therefore they will be able to squeeze some mileage out of it.

 

the lurid headlines and the innuendo contained within the various column inches mean diddly squat of course, i seriously doubt anyone of a hearts persuasion will even begin to take this cobblers at face value. it just seems to be a ritual process nowadays to print the same tired old drivel which nobody will believe anyway. in the same way that red-tops print meaningless space fillers about the OF in order to pad out the sports sections, it seems hearts are utilised as some kind of punch bag in order to create sensational headlines.

 

great lads, well done. degrees in journalism put to good use then.

 

the only other thing that these ongoing shenanigans prove is that the people behind them have little or no imagination, one trick ponies.

 

i've said it before and i'll say it again... these goons should be excluded from tynecastle and riccarton with immediate effect. would the treatment get any worse? probably.... but who gives a s***?

 

You'd be surprised - I was sent a PM from a frequent poster today who quoted that very article!!

[David Brent]

Or give HBOS the Deeds to Tynecastle again as security.

 

But they won't.

 

 

With only one home match during December thus meaning very little money hitting the Clubs coffers in the coming weeks my gut feeling is there will be another blip sometime soon.

 

Yeah mate, you're probably right. But as they said in the Godfather "it's not personal, it's just business".

[Colonel Kurtz]

Yeah mate, you're probably right. But as they said in the Godfather "it's not personal, it's just business".

 

Or to paraphrase the first line of dialogue in The Godfather "I believe in Lithuania" delivered by Enzoauskas The Baker

[rdewar42]

I'm puzzled, and not for the first time, reading this forum.

 

It has been set up for supporters of our great club, yet seems to attract a number of posters who would revel in " I told you so"s, should we (God forbid) find ourselves in terminal fiscal decline.

 

The stay-away fans, likewise, with their " the club is not being properly run" agenda, should have a look at themselves, and admit their own part in the club's financial problems.

 

I concede my ownership of maroon spectacles, but some overdo the negativity, and benefit the club they claim to support, not one jot.

[bighalders]

So players not paid for the second time, no story all ok...................... I have my doubts. If the Hobos were in this position we'd be making the most of it, asured their downfall was about to happen, yet when it happens at Hearts again, it's no story. I'd be worried if my employer was late twice in thre months with my wages. Normally employers do all they can to protect wages, so if we can't pay wages it could be assumed it's because there is/was no money tomake the payments, worrying. But Hey Ho we're third in the league and beaten the Gers

[Guest Fabuloso]

So players not paid for the second time, no story all ok...................... I have my doubts. If the Hobos were in this position we'd be making the most of it, asured their downfall was about to happen, yet when it happens at Hearts again, it's no story. I'd be worried if my employer was late twice in thre months with my wages. Normally employers do all they can to protect wages, so if we can't pay wages it could be assumed it's because there is/was no money tomake the payments, worrying. But Hey Ho we're third in the league and beaten the Gers

 

I'm sorry but you can't make realistic statements like that on here as the anti-'hobo' squad will track you down and show you how much of a traitor you are. Only good news from now on please.

[Francis Albert]

So players not paid for the second time, no story all ok...................... I have my doubts. If the Hobos were in this position we'd be making the most of it, asured their downfall was about to happen, yet when it happens at Hearts again, it's no story. I'd be worried if my employer was late twice in thre months with my wages. Normally employers do all they can to protect wages, so if we can't pay wages it could be assumed it's because there is/was no money tomake the payments, worrying. But Hey Ho we're third in the league and beaten the Gers

 

It is a story. But the story is that the players were paid, one banking day late. It is a story. Just not that big a story. On hibs.net I can understand it being the big sports story of the day. But Scotland's "national" media? And JKB???

[redm]

So players not paid for the second time, no story all ok...................... I have my doubts. If the Hobos were in this position we'd be making the most of it, asured their downfall was about to happen, yet when it happens at Hearts again, it's no story. I'd be worried if my employer was late twice in thre months with my wages. Normally employers do all they can to protect wages, so if we can't pay wages it could be assumed it's because there is/was no money tomake the payments, worrying. But Hey Ho we're third in the league and beaten the Gers

 

These days, I honestly don't believe that anyone would blink an eye if it happened at Hibs. They might laugh though.

 

And you've obviously had super-diligent employers because 4 of mine have been late with my wages in the past...a list which includes L&B's finest and multi-billionzillionaires Esso nonetheless.

[Genghis Khan]

I'm sorry but you can't make realistic statements like that on here as the anti-'hobo' squad will track you down and show you how much of a traitor you are. Only good news from now on please.

 

Don't worry, your mate Mr PDQ will be along in a minute to tell us all what really happened though!

 

Oh wait.........he seems to have disappeared. Can't think why.

[Guest Fabuloso]

It is a story. But the story is that the players were paid, one banking day late. It is a story. Just not that big a story. On hibs.net I can understand it being the big sports story of the day. But Scotland's "national" media? And JKB???

 

It's the number of stories preceding this latest piece of news which makes it newsworthy. Not least the fact that late payment happened two months ago. Furthermore given the upheaval in the banking sector...

[shaun.lawson]

It is a story. But the story is that the players were paid, one banking day late. It is a story. Just not that big a story. On hibs.net I can understand it being the big sports story of the day. But Scotland's "national" media? And JKB???

 

Ach, it's just something to talk about, Francis. Everything in the press and on here are just things to talk about and pass the time over. Sure, there are potentially more serious questions contained within - but it's all supposition. It's the nature of messageboards.