Must they really drag this on? FRESH WAGE ROW

[jambo191]

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/football/spl/2008/12/02/new-wage-row-at-hearts-as-players-finally-get-paid-but-fail-to-receive-win-bonuses-86908-20940076/

 

Somehow they always find away to make it seem winning matches is bad for us, especially against there favorite vermin.

 

Really why do they waste thier time printing this tripe....

[K1874M]

Who the ****'s blabbing to the ****** munching scaff keith jackson.

 

The day he's hit by a bus cant come quick enough.

[Nucky Thompson]

Nothing new in that whatsoever so I don't know how it's a fresh wage row. The Sun are going down the line that the spokeswomen said she couldn't guarantee it won't happen again:) They are struggling for stories because they were relying on the wages not being paid.

[Buffalo Bill]

As long as the board keep making fools of themselves over payments, grubby rags like the Record will continue to have a field day with "The Jambos".

 

 

Buffalo Bill

 

.

[shaun.lawson]

The Daily Record. Without doubt my favourite publication. Soft, strong... and thoroughly absorbent.

[Francis Albert]

I love the way the record manages to get the phrase "finally paid" three times into a short story. "Finally" = one banking day late.

[Guest JamboRobbo]

As long as the board keep making fools of themselves over payments, grubby rags like the Record will continue to have a field day with "The Jambos".

 

 

Buffalo Bill

 

.

 

Seems that simple to me.

 

However much Hearts try to play it down, players won't be happy if they ain't paid their bonuses, which are part of their contracts.

[Francis Albert]

Seems that simple to me.

 

However much Hearts try to play it down, players won't be happy if they ain't paid their bonuses, which are part of their contracts.

 

What do the contracts say about bonuses?

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Seems that simple to me.

 

However much Hearts try to play it down, players won't be happy if they ain't paid their bonuses, which are part of their contracts.

 

Unless they are content to defer their bonuses for this new system. No idea though if they are or not.

[Buffalo Bill]

Guys, let's face it.

 

If this story is true, then the record will run with it. They have a duty to knock "The Jambos"; a very Daily Record way of referring to HMFC.

 

This non-payment business is making Ubig look very suspect. It's bad enough when they're ripping off suppliers, but even worse when it's the players who have dragged their reputation out of the gutter.

 

 

Buffalo Bill

 

.

[269miles]

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/football/spl/2008/12/02/new-wage-row-at-hearts-as-players-finally-get-paid-but-fail-to-receive-win-bonuses-86908-20940076/

 

Somehow they always find away to make it seem winning matches is bad for us, especially against there favorite vermin.

 

Really why do they waste thier time printing this tripe....

 

There was already a link to an article on here a few days back that clearly said that bonuses were to be paid in January. It didn't mention any dissention from players then so what's the big deal now ?

[Valentinho]

"Last week's pay packets - minus the win bonuses - finally cleared in the accounts at close of business last night". (K Jackson)

 

The salaries were done on Friday. They were not paid on Friday (poor show, Hearts - the players should ALWAYS be paid on time). For Jackson to say "finally cleared" on Monday at close of business is just typical of a soap free weeg hack. As the intervening days were a weekend, when banks are closed, then , Monday was the EARLIEST the players could have been paid!!!

 

Granted, the "blip" should not occur at all, but I somehow doubt the players were short of cash over the weekend and , if they were, they are planks. No nearly as much a plank as Jackson, who turns my stomach as a "journalist". Where were his comments about sectarian bile issuing from the unwashed and his attack on Gordon Smith for failing to "rid the game" of this poison? Nah, it's easier to take a pop at Hearts for being one day late in paying wages.

[Guest JamboRobbo]

Unless they are content to defer their bonuses for this new system. No idea though if they are or not.

 

Agreed. So far, not heard anyone mention any players agreeing to this though. If they have, fair enough.

[Colonel Kurtz]

Non story

sorry to diappoint the weedia and some on here,the players are all ok with the bonuses being paid in January.

This has in a perverse way brought the squad together,Shabba hadnt been paid and lived with it.

Look at the recent team spirit,against Falkirk we went a goal down..last season we would have lost,we outfought the Huns and Shabba outthought Auld Wattie .

Kingston stepped out of line and was dropped untilhis attitude improved.

The Lithuanian gk coach recomended Jamie over a kaunus player.

[Guest JamboRobbo]

What do the contracts say about bonuses?

 

I'm wokring on the presumpiton they are paid weekly, as per normal football contracts.

[Jammy T]

Why are people falling for this new incentive thing?

 

The players are not being paid bonuses as contracted but have been told they will be in January

 

Nothing to do with incentive, everything to do with the lack of cash.

 

I also seem to recall that overdue bonus payments were used as a lever when Rudi left. Was he not asked to sacrifice them in order to seal the move?

 

Whether or not we are close to administration we dont still have Hearts fans that dont think there are some financial issues / problems?

 

Do we?

[shaun.lawson]

Why are people falling for this new incentive thing?

 

The players are not being paid bonuses as contracted but have been told they will be in January

 

Nothing to do with incentive, everything to do with the lack of cash.

 

 

I agree with all of the above. People are falling for it because, I guess, they want to fall for it: they want to arrive at the most cheerful conclusion. My only hope is the players are genuinely happy with this arrangement - but quite obviously, it's been made because of cashflow. People on here have joked in the past about Vlad being happy last season, because we couldn't afford to pay win bonuses: unfortunately, that seems to have been rather close to the truth...

[Gambo]

There seem to be a couple of posters on here who seem to know the Hearts players contracts inside out (me thinks they are just guessing tbh). The same posters who seem to know that the 'blips' are entirelly down to Hearts/Ubig.

 

We have one who tells us he thinks they are normally paid weekly as is the norm in football, the same as he thinks it is the norm in football that players get paid weekly (according to the Daily Record, weekly pay is now uncommon within football).

 

We have known for the last few days that the bonuses would not be paid till January. Who is to say that that is not the agreed time for the bonuses to be paid?

 

We have a poster who is well known on here to be very close to a first team player and he says it is a non story.

 

At the end of the day most of us are guessing, but i have not heard any quote from a player or even a 'club insider' that the players are raging/unhappy etc with the bonuses being paid in January.

[bmxweeman]

As much as i hate the tripe in the papers with there bias views. Someone has to be going to the media and telling them this 'juicy story'. Who is the mole

[Gambo]

Why are people falling for this new incentive thing? Why do folk fall for the Daily Record spin on events?

The players are not being paid bonuses as contracted and you know this to be certain?

 

Nothing to do with incentive, everything to do with the lack of cash Might be the case, might also not be the case, but again you seem to know for sure.

 

 

Whether or not we are close to administration we dont still have Hearts fans that dont think there are some financial issues / problems? No one can be in any doubt if they have read your post.

 

 

...

[Buffalo Bill]

Who is the mole

 

Could the answer to that be in the question?

 

 

Buffalo Bill

 

.

[Colonel Kurtz]

As much as i hate the tripe in the papers with there bias views. Someone has to be going to the media and telling them this 'juicy story'. Who is the mole

 

There is nothing in this story which havent just been gleaned abd spun from readily avaiable facts

The fomer DR mole went to Bristol,and the most recent press one was emptied

[shaun.lawson]

Could the answer to that be in the question?

 

 

Buffalo Bill

 

.

 

Blimey!

[bmxweeman]

Set myself up for that one

[Francis Albert]

I'm wokring on the presumpiton they are paid weekly, as per normal football contracts.

 

 

So you don't know. Fair enough.

 

I've never read a "normal football contract" but in all the jobs I've had which involved bonuses, the bonus was "non-contractual" and the bonus scheme could be changed at the employer's discretion.

 

Anyway, I've not heard any hint (even an unattributed quote) or seen any sign that any player is upset about bonus payments.

[Guest JamboRobbo]

We have one who tells us he thinks they are normally paid weekly as is the norm in football, the same as he thinks it is the norm in football that players get paid weekly (according to the Daily Record, weekly pay is now uncommon within football).

 

So the DR does know about football when it suits you then.

 

We have known for the last few days that the bonuses would not be paid till January. Who is to say that that is not the agreed time for the bonuses to be paid?

 

Why would UBIG spokesperson mention bonuses weren't being paid till January if that is when they are contracted to be paid?

 

We have a poster who is well known on here to be very close to a first team player and he says it is a non story.

 

And if what he says is true, and the players are fine with it, then it isn't a big deal.

 

At the same time, it's not a non-story either. It is a non-story in terms of players being unhappy. It's not in terms of the implication that we may be struggling to get the cash together.

[Guest JamboRobbo]

So you don't know. Fair enough.

 

I've never read a "normal football contract"

 

And I have. Therein lies the difference perhaps.

[Gigolo-Aunt]

The Daily Record was always going to go to town on this. No Euro games this week, quiet paper days - a nice Christmas present from Hearts.

 

Just dont give them ammunition.

 

Simple.

[Rawrrrrrrr]

Yes because there isnt a story here.

 

What annoys me is how just because they are paid, we are all expected to hush down in line.

 

Once is an accident, twice is complete incompetence, the club must do something to ensure it doesnt happen again.

 

If true what is being said, we are basically screwed financially and dont have the cash to meet our contractual obligations on time.

 

Clearly a worry and anyone who says different is clearly scoobyless

[Colonel Kurtz]

So you don't know. Fair enough.

 

I've never read a "normal football contract" but in all the jobs I've had which involved bonuses, the bonus was "non-contractual" and the bonus scheme could be changed at the employer's discretion.

 

Anyway, I've not heard any hint (even an unattributed quote) or seen any sign that any player is upset about bonus payments.

 

There are 2 type of "bonuses"

one based on appearances to individuals and are usually part of the contract ,there are also step payments made after a certain number of appearances,and incentive bonuses which are add ons.

Hearts are moving onto a much more performance based pay structure after some recent horrors.

I also repeat that I doubt that any player who was involved on Saturday would have been involved in the DR article

[Francis Albert]

And I have. Therein lies the difference perhaps.

 

Or maybe the difference is that I admit when I don't know something.

 

And don't post as fact something that I don't know is fact.

[Guest JamboRobbo]

Or maybe the difference is that I admit when I don't know something.

 

And don't post as fact something that I don't know is fact.

 

I'm not claiming to know the facts of the Hearts players contracts. I'm claiming to know that appearance and win bonuses are generally in a players contract, and are generally paid weekly just like the wages.

 

You seem to be dismissing this information, based on your knowledge of these things, which it would appear consists of the square root of f all.

[Cut The Crap]

I suspect that this will drag on for as long as Hearts fail to meet their financial commitments in full and on time.

 

I'm quite happy for the regime to be scrutinised in this way by the media and football authorities. After all, the fans have shown they're not up to it.

[Jammy T]

...

 

Not taking anything from the DR report.

 

I'm taking the info from someone on here who confirmed the story before it was run in the papers.

 

I dont think there is any debate as to whether the bonuses have been paid as they were contractually due.

 

The debate appears to be about the reasoning/truth behind the delay.

 

Some are running with the club propogated "incentivisation scheme" which runs along the lines that the players are happy not to receive monies contractually due until Xmas - and look havent results improved

 

Or the others taking the fact there have now been two payment "glitches" and now additional win monies not being paid as a sign as there may be a "restriction" of cash flow.

[Gambo]

Not taking anything from the DR report.

 

I'm taking the info from someone on here who confirmed the story before it was run in the papers.

 

I dont think there is any debate as to whether the bonuses have been paid as they were contractually due.

 

The debate appears to be about the reasoning/truth behind the delay.

 

Some are running with the club propogated "incentivisation scheme" which runs along the lines that the players are happy not to receive monies contractually due until Xmas - and look havent results improved

 

Or the others taking the fact there have now been two payment "glitches" and now additional win monies not being paid as a sign as there may be a "restriction" of cash flow.

 

Thats better.......your opinion is now based on what you have read/heard or read between the lines (which is fine). As no-one has posted a copy of a players actual contract or knows the exact reason for a 'blip' that is all we can do.

 

A wee bit different from your other post where you told us exactly what the script was.

[Jammy T]

Thats better.......your opinion is now based on what you have read/heard or read between the lines (which is fine). As no-one has posted a copy of a players actual contract or knows the exact reason for a 'blip' that is all we can do.

 

A wee bit different from your other post where you told us exactly what the script was.

 

I know nothing

 

Always presume opinion from me as opposed to fact....

[Feeno]

I'm not claiming to know the facts of the Hearts players contracts. I'm claiming to know that appearance and win bonuses are generally in a players contract, and are generally paid weekly just like the wages.

 

You seem to be dismissing this information, based on your knowledge of these things, which it would appear consists of the square root of f all.

 

Its a fairly well known fact that the bonus due had been stated to be paid in January, someone with your well informed backgorund surely must have read this too in the many articles prior to today. Or is that just a wee gloss over the facts so you can keep up the witchhunt?

[Guest JamboRobbo]

Its a fairly well known fact that the bonus due had been stated to be paid in January, someone with your well informed backgorund surely must have read this too in the many articles prior to today.

 

Indeed I had.

 

Or is that just a wee gloss over the facts so you can keep up the witchhunt?

 

Nope, I was responding to a point made, with a point of my own. It was being discussed on here, so I gave my opinion.

 

I presume you just glossed over the fact that I'm just giving my opinion, so that you continue following me around having a go at me?

[Rawrrrrrrr]

Its a fairly well known fact that the bonus due had been stated to be paid in January, someone with your well informed backgorund surely must have read this too in the many articles prior to today. Or is that just a wee gloss over the facts so you can keep up the witchhunt?

 

 

I think he is disputing whether this is the contractual time for it to be paid.

 

From what I have read on here, it does sound like, hearts have said the bonuses will not be paid until a cash inflow in January.

 

Whether this is a contractual right, or just them telling the players to take it or leave it who knows.

[Genghis Khan]

I think he is disputing whether this is the contractual time for it to be paid.

 

From what I have read on here, it does sound like, hearts have said the bonuses will not be paid until a cash inflow in January.

 

Whether this is a contractual right, or just them telling the players to take it or leave it who knows.

 

Not you apparently.

 

I posted this yesterday and you never answered - in fact, you disappeared off the whole thread. Care to answer now?

 

I've already stated that I don't know and where have I said that my opinion is fact? There could be a problem in a Lithuanian Bank or even at the HBOS end - who knows?

 

My point is - just so you are under no illusions - you are determined to blame UBIG / Vlad / Hearts when you have absolutely no knowledge of where the problem actually lies.

 

You may be right but you could also be 100% wrong. Do you accept that?

[Rawrrrrrrr]

Not you apparently.

 

I posted this yesterday and you never answered - in fact, you disappeared off the whole thread. Care to answer now?

 

I've already stated that I don't know and where have I said that my opinion is fact? There could be a problem in a Lithuanian Bank or even at the HBOS end - who knows?

 

My point is - just so you are under no illusions - you are determined to blame UBIG / Vlad / Hearts when you have absolutely no knowledge of where the problem actually lies.

 

You may be right but you could also be 100% wrong. Do you accept that?

 

 

I think my postings on the topic answered the question.

 

It is possible yes, I don't think its likely.

 

I think its far more likely Ubig/Hearts cocked up.

[Genghis Khan]

I think my postings on the topic answered the question.

 

It is possible yes, I don't think its likely.

 

I think its far more likely Ubig/Hearts cocked up.

 

But you concede that you have absolutely no knowledge of where the problem lay?

 

Thanks for clearing that up - eventually.

[Chester™]

 

Whether this is a contractual right, or just them telling the players to take it or leave it who knows.

 

If that were the case, do you not think the Players Union and SFA would have been all over it like a rash?

 

The fact there has been no murmurings from the authorities would indicate to me that the players are indeed happy with the new system. And just because its being reported now, does not mean its just being implemented either.

[andi17]

True or false nobody really knows except the players and board especially the daily old/firm,be prepared if we show massive signs of being sucessfull ie 2nd place or a good cup run the weegy media will do there utmost to upset it.

[Rawrrrrrrr]

But you concede that you have absolutely no knowledge of where the problem lay?

 

Thanks for clearing that up - eventually.

 

 

I know as someone who works everyday with HBOS banking and also has some involvement in a payroll that the likiehood of this being completely not to blame of Ubig/Club being extremely low.

 

You yourself have no knowledge of were the problem lay, I just think its very sad how so many apologists out there run around completely missing the issue and making excuses for complete mismanagement and incompetence.

 

Mistakes like this could kill hearts.

[Rawrrrrrrr]

If that were the case, do you not think the Players Union and SFA would have been all over it like a rash?

 

The fact there has been no murmurings from the authorities would indicate to me that the players are indeed happy with the new system. And just because its being reported now, does not mean its just being implemented either.

 

 

Your probably right although they might be trying to deal with it in private first.

 

Ultimately the only people who know are the club and the players. It may well be that the club like most employers are allowed to deviate contracts and have done so meaning whilst the players are not happy, they have no legal grounds for complaint.

 

Maybe colonel Kurtz could let us know?

[Rods]

The Daily Record. Without doubt my favourite publication. Soft, strong... and thoroughly absorbent.

 

you nicked that from blackadder

[Chester™]

Your probably right although they might be trying to deal with it in private first.

 

Ultimately the only people who know are the club and the players. It may well be that the club like most employers are allowed to deviate contracts and have done so meaning whilst the players are not happy, they have no legal grounds for complaint.

 

Maybe colonel Kurtz could let us know?

 

Could be. Though I have heard that the players agreed to this change during the close season and due to restructuring of contracts, its only becoming apparent now. The move was to bring us in line with many other clubs around the UK and indeed Europe.

 

Im not sure if you remember but there was talk around March/April time that the players were moving to a new contract system especially around bonuses. A bit like how Dundee Utd had in the 80s under McLean. It sounds like this is now the case.

[Rawrrrrrrr]

Could be. Though I have heard that the players agreed to this change during the close season and due to restructuring of contracts, its only becoming apparent now. The move was to bring us in line with many other clubs around the UK and indeed Europe.

 

Im not sure if you remember but there was talk around March/April time that the players were moving to a new contract system especially around bonuses. A bit like how Dundee Utd had in the 80s under McLean. It sounds like this is now the case.

 

 

I have no problem at all if its being done for genuine reasons, my concern would be if the rumours that they cant be paid until we get a fee in is true.

 

We have a few on here who know the players and have commented on stuff like this before. I would be interested to see what Colonel Kurtz has to say on this.

 

Most footballers are well paid in basic terms anyway and if they need to wait a month or so for their bonuses I dont see any real harm. Its only if we cant pay there is an issue.

[shaun.lawson]

you nicked that from blackadder

 

Guilty, m'lud! As guilty as a puppy sitting next to a pile of poo, in fact.