coppercrutch Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 I think you need to explain why anyone would want to express their Britishness at a football match at Tynecastle? I think you have missed the point. Read post #44 again. I was replying to a point. A pretty poor point at that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 In recent games against Celtic, I can assure everyone that if you identified a Celtic fan chanting "oh ah up the RA" or anything equally offensive to the police, the police have gone and spoken to the culprits. Oooh, that sure showed them eh.... Not quite the same approach adopted by Strathclyde police when it comes to hearts fans though is it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JamboRobbo Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 You suggested that those "breaking the rules" would not be hard done to and were not "good hearts". "**** off Nakamura ya cheatin wee poof" breaks the rules. Are you saying that someone who shouts that after he takes a dive is not good hearts and deserves all they get fromt he police? No I didn't. I said, if someone sings racist or sectarian songs at a Hearts match, they're not good Hearts fans and deserve whatever they get. I never said a thing about someone saying anything to Nakamura. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 No I didn't. I said, if someone sings racist or sectarian songs at a Hearts match, they're not good Hearts fans and deserve whatever they get. What about the ones who sing homophobic chants then? Or are you saying that breakign one rule is not as bad as breaking another? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4marsbars Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 I think you have missed the point. Read post #44 again. I was replying to a point. A pretty poor point at that. It wasn't a point. It was a question. And it wasn't "pretty poor". It was a very good question, because it was an "open" question, simply what would you like to be free to do? Not in any way a loaded question, no traps set. Anyone who knows anything about questions would be happy with it. Nobody with any sense could consider it to be in any way "poor". You gave a very clear reply and maybe others will too. You want to take a union flag to Tynecastle. I won't debate that point because of the rules of this board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romanov Stole My Pension Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 As a genuine question, is it against any law to sing about terrorism? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JamboRobbo Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 The laws to loose to prosecute... half the folk dont even know what songs are deemed sectarian and what are not. For bans to be handed out on 'bendy' laws with out any kind of hearing etc is a disgrace. agree to an extent. Like all laws, they are open to interpretation and you'll be able to push it so far before you cross the line. On the other hand, anyone with half a brain, who doesn't want to take the risk of getting banned, wouldn't find it all that difficult to avoid getting in trouble by steering well clear of songs which run the risk of being deemed sectarian or racist or whatever. They have been warned time and time again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Bapswent Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 I have no desire to sing these songs either thanks very much so kindly deflect your assumptions and insults elsewhere. I sit in Section B. Not exactly renound for its sectarian / bigotted / racist outbursts now is it. What I find laughable is the thought that one Hearts fan could be ejected on the basis of calling someone gay or a poof, whilst 3000 Celtic fans have free reign to chant about the IRA. If you think thats equality / fair then fair play. I dont. Pull your knickers out your erse and tell me where I specifically insulted you? I don't recall in anyway targeting my response towards you? I was talking about all those in favour and no-one specifically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JamboRobbo Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 What about the ones who sing homophobic chants then? Or are you saying that breakign one rule is not as bad as breaking another? Again, they've been well warned and they're taking their chances if they do. And yes, I think there are various rules that breaking is "worse" than others. Thats why we have a courts system - to decide on the extent of punishments for breaking the various rules of the land. e.g. murder is worse than speeding 71 in a 70. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coppercrutch Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 What about the ones who sing homophobic chants then? Or are you saying that breakign one rule is not as bad as breaking another? By jove I think he's got it !! Yes there have been secret rules drawn up that are not available for the general public. We all have to abide by these rules but nobody actually knows who made them up or when. Tricky huh ? I will give a brief idea of what I think these rules are: Abuse of countries ? Not allowed. Abuse of areas within Scotland - Bring it on !! Abuse of someones wieght - Of course, it's all fun !! Abuse of someone's skin colour - Of course not you bigoted racist. Abuse of someones wife or mother - Yes please more !! It's all just banter afterall. Abuse of someone's religion - Bigot !! Officer take him away to Hunbrox where he belongs. Taking a Ghana flag to games - Of course we are a multinational club of course !! Taking the flag to the game of the country we belong to - Of course not !! You belong in Hunbrox you bigotted knuckledragger. All clear ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4marsbars Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 What makes it worse is that there will be a good section of our support who agree with this and probably believe it's only us who have the sectarian problem. : I've never come across a Hearts fan who thought that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest S.U.S.S. Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 So if i wear a t-shirt with a bag of spuds on it with, Now available in Ireland, thats ok? Gosh, glad thats been cleared up. Thankfully the t-shirt is incapable of singing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rods Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 All for equality, but whereas Celtic undoubtedly have Irish Catholic roots and express that with varying degrees of acceptability (the terrorist stuff clearly is repugnant; plaintive songs about past social conditions in Athenry are a different matter, depending on your "musical" taste) Hearts have no similar heritage which we require an "equal" right to express. We do have a minority of numbskulls who know no history and think we are hewn from an orange rock, and the club is right to stamp on that. The club's efforts have had a fair degree of success; as others have noted, this kind of behaviour is rarely seen at home matches, and maybe there's no big deal. Perhaps it's different when Celtic are in town. What exactly do you think we should have an "equal" right to do? Singing songs in praise of the UDA would be equivalent but irrelevant. What would you really like to be free to do that you now "cannot"? The celtic fans believe this and Dr Reid said us much For me that is bigotry itself the catholics are the worst for it schools etc. For me if signing the dolly dash gets up there nose then it is great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JamboRobbo Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 So if i wear a t-shirt with a bag of spuds on it with, Now available in Ireland, thats ok? Gosh, glad thats been cleared up. Thankfully the t-shirt is incapable of singing. t-shirts that are incapable of singing? You need to stop shopping at TK Maxx. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 Pull your knickers out your erse and tell me where I specifically insulted you? I don't recall in anyway targeting my response towards you? I was talking about all those in favour and no-one specifically. You were replying to MY post. You went on to state: "I cant believe people are pretending this is about equality, rather than the desire to sing sectarian and bigoted songs. Its not really about equality, its just a convenient vehicle for those who wont admit they are bigots to argue in favour of being able to sing such songs while hiding behind the pretense that they are actually campaigning for EVERYONES rights. Laughable." Given that the ONLY person to mention equality in this thread has been ME - i'd say its fair to assume you directed that part at me. All of which turned out to be rubbish. Nice bodyswerve of my points though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JamboRobbo Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 I've never come across a Hearts fan who thought that. a bit more detail than was really required mate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bean counter Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 Who is going to enforce this ? I thought Celtic brought their own stewards with them, if so I can't see them pointing anyone out to the police Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JamboRobbo Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 Who is going to enforce this ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 Again, they've been well warned and they're taking their chances if they do. And yes, I think there are various rules that breaking is "worse" than others. Thats why we have a courts system - to decide on the extent of punishments for breaking the various rules of the land. e.g. murder is worse than speeding 71 in a 70. Ah right, the comparison of a sectarian chant to a homophobic one is on a par with the comparison of exceeding the speed limit by 1mph and murder. Laughable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JamboRobbo Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 Ah right, the comparison of a sectarian chant to a homophobic one is on a par with the comparison of exceeding the speed limit by 1mph and murder. Laughable. Again, putting words in my mouth which I never said. why the desperation to put words in peoples mouths? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DETTY29 Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 I thinkthe message on the Hearts boeard should have been extended to say. 'And one final thing,Heart of Midlothian Football Club does not want to be potrayed as mini huns (sorry Mini Rangers Supporters) therefore please refrain from directly copying and singing every song word for word originally accredited to Rangers Supporters' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudolf's Mate Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 Correct. Incidentally, I was speaking to a vermin supporter in a pub the other day. He seemed an alright chap but then accused Hearts fans of being biggots. I asked him if he had not witnessed the **** sining IRA at Tynie before (expecting him to deny it).....to which he replied whats wrong with that. I asked what has singing about terroroists got to to do with football.....he replied one man's terrorist is the next mans freedom fighter. I promptly asked him to leave. This guy didnt look like one of their normal junkie looking fans.....he looked like a normal bloke. Its just confirmed to me how backward these halfwits are. Met a guy down here who is one of them. I have to admit that he was a totally decent bloke on all levels. Went to a barbie round his in the summer and in his garage he had a picture of a meeting in 1904 or 1914 (cant remember) but in it were a bunch of people and it turned out the be the founding meeting of the IRA! He also said that despite being scottish he hadn't followed the national team in recent years and had been following Ireland! I haven't been invited back to his after that night! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest S.U.S.S. Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 t-shirts that are incapable of singing? You need to stop shopping at TK Maxx. And to think for only ?9.99 more it could have had an MP3 player with speakers built in. The shame! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4marsbars Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 a bit more detail than was really required mate. But true whichever way you read it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest S.U.S.S. Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 I thinkthe message on the Hearts boeard should have been extended to say. 'And one final thing,Heart of Midlothian Football Club does not want to be potrayed as mini huns (sorry Mini Rangers Supporters) therefore please refrain from directly copying and singing every song word for word originally accredited to Rangers Supporters' Why not go further, "Hearts will eject anyone who brings their own prawn filled food and who sits and greets because someone says something that makes the little baby Jesus upset." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mighty Thor Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 agree to an extent. Like all laws, they are open to interpretation and you'll be able to push it so far before you cross the line. On the other hand, anyone with half a brain, who doesn't want to take the risk of getting banned, wouldn't find it all that difficult to avoid getting in trouble by steering well clear of songs which run the risk of being deemed sectarian or racist or whatever. They have been warned time and time again. And therein lies the problem. Take a lower than average intelligence and sense of right and wrong, add an excessive amount of alcohol and you have 'instant arsehole'. I have no issue with these muppets getting themselves banned for life from Tynie (and every other Scottish league ground) it's like natural selection. I do have a huge issue with them dragging the name and reputation of Hearts through the mire to satisfy their own stupid agenda. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Bapswent Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 You were replying to MY post. You went on to state: "I cant believe people are pretending this is about equality, rather than the desire to sing sectarian and bigoted songs. Its not really about equality, its just a convenient vehicle for those who wont admit they are bigots to argue in favour of being able to sing such songs while hiding behind the pretense that they are actually campaigning for EVERYONES rights. Laughable." Given that the ONLY person to mention equality in this thread has been ME - i'd say its fair to assume you directed that part at me. All of which turned out to be rubbish. Nice bodyswerve of my points though. Not really sure why your getting so worked up. My original post asked a few questions, and you replied to that, in a way which seemed to speak on behalf of others. My first post was a question addressing the whole, topic, as was my second. Im also not sure what points im meant to have bodyswerved. I didnt mention section B, I didnt mention Celtic fans. I dont think its fair that ANYONE should be allowed to sing such songs, but i would have though that was more than obvious by my initial question of why would people even want to argue for that right in the first place! You seem to have misguidedly taken something personally and are getting all uptight about it. My post was never meant to refer to anyone specifically, so in the interests of KB relations, ill apologies for any offense caused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest S.U.S.S. Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 Who is going to enforce this ? I thought Celtic brought their own stewards with them, if so I can't see them pointing anyone out to the police Very good point mate, they are never going to grass on their own, and thats how they see it. You have to be a Celtic fan to be a steward as far as im told. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spikey Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 Does this mean the celtic boys club song is a non starter then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Bapswent Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 S.U.S.S Serious question. Why are you so in favour of singing these songs? What is the argument (other than adding to atmosphere) that makes these songs worth fighting for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest S.U.S.S. Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 Are we allowed to sing Aiden McGreedy, why wont you go home. He is after all Irish (unlike 99% of the plastics who will be there) No mention of famine etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudolf's Mate Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 Very good point mate, they are never going to grass on their own, and thats how they see it. You have to be a Celtic fan to be a steward as far as im told. For gods sake get a grip!!! Everyone know's you got to come directly from the Vatican! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest S.U.S.S. Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 S.U.S.S Serious question. Why are you so in favour of singing these songs? What is the argument (other than adding to atmosphere) that makes these songs worth fighting for? Serious Answer Can you show me my post on this thread in which i said i was in favour of singing (which songs)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DETTY29 Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 Why not go further, "Hearts will eject anyone who brings their own prawn filled food and who sits and greets because someone says something that makes the little baby Jesus upset." No not really, I can't get the refererence between prawn sandwiches and elements of the Hearts support directly copying anything the Rangers fans do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest S.U.S.S. Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 For gods sake get a grip!!! Everyone know's you got to come directly from the Vatican! Your right, sadly i went via Dundee and Hamilton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JamboRobbo Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 But true whichever way you read it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Bapswent Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 Serious Answer Can you show me my post on this thread in which i said i was in favour of singing (which songs)? OK, I cant. I made the assumption because you always pop up in some sort of defense of it. So if your not defending it, what is your stance? Why dont you think they are inappropriate songs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spikey Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 OK, i think its time we had a definitive 'banned list' outlining specific songs and lyrics, and even tunes, that are taboo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4marsbars Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 For me if signing the dolly dash gets up there nose then it is great. So when Rangers come you will wind them up by singing some Irish rebel songs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest S.U.S.S. Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 OK, I cant. I made the assumption because you always pop up in some sort of defense of it. So if your not defending it, what is your stance? Why dont you think they are inappropriate songs? Rather like you pop up every time. Again show me my posts defending singing sectarian tunes. Not tunes that people on here have decided are not appropriate but sectarian tunes. Inapropriate is not specific enough, i may find something inapropropriate due to a personal experience but others in general may not so inapropriate cant be used as a measure, only law which means sectarian and homophobic songs are out. Should people be arrested for the hibees are gay? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudolf's Mate Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 OK, I cant. I made the assumption because you always pop up in some sort of defense of it. So if your not defending it, what is your stance? Why dont you think they are inappropriate songs? Not wanting to get involved but why ask what someones stance is after trying to take a pop at them for something they've not said? They then give their stance and you then slate it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rods Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 So when Rangers come you will wind them up by singing some Irish rebel songs? No I will stick to flower of scotland for that one My point is the whole celtic club has bigotry at its roots. What is wrong with there scottish roots ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudolf's Mate Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 I personally see no problem with singing god save the queen! It is after all a British song and is meant to represent our whole island. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Bapswent Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 Rather like you pop up every time. Again show me my posts defending singing sectarian tunes. Not tunes that people on here have decided are not appropriate but sectarian tunes. Inapropriate is not specific enough, i may find something inapropropriate due to a personal experience but others in general may not so inapropriate cant be used as a measure, only law which means sectarian and homophobic songs are out. Should people be arrested for the hibees are gay? I think people should respect the club, and do what the club asks. I see no point in sectarian singing. Do you not think that the club specifying the song should not be sung is enough? I dont think Hibees are gay is particularly offensive, its childish, but not that offensive, but if the club decided it should not be sung, Id respect that. I certainly wouldn't be churlish enough to fight against it....what would my reason be? The right to sing Hibees are gay.....hardly worth it. If not, why would you argue your right to sing it over the clubs wishes? I dont see what the benefit is that people are fighting for? Other than possibly a undertow of unsaid and implied sectarian bigotism which people dont admit to, but really support. Again, not suggesting you, but im interested to find out, as ive never had a decent response to the question - why should these songs be allowed to be sung (other than to add to atmosphere)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Bapswent Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 Not wanting to get involved but why ask what someones stance is after trying to take a pop at them for something they've not said? They then give their stance and you then slate it! Its called a debate, And when there are 2 sides, they disagree and often argue....its normal. I asked for clarification, and I previously made an assumption. Why say your not wanting to get involved, then immediately get involved? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JamboRobbo Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 I personally see no problem with singing god save the queen! It is after all a British song and is meant to represent our whole island. And I personally see no problem singing Flower of Scotland. It is after all a scottish song and represents our country. But I don't see the relevence of either song to HMFC, or this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest S.U.S.S. Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 I think people should respect the club, and do what the club asks. I see no point in sectarian singing. Do you not think that the club specifying the song should not be sung is enough? I dont think Hibees are gay is particularly offensive, its childish, but not that offensive, but if the club decided it should not be sung, Id respect that. I certainly wouldn't be churlish enough to fight against it....what would my reason be? The right to sing Hibees are gay.....hardly worth it. If not, why would you argue your right to sing it over the clubs wishes? I dont see what the benefit is that people are fighting for? Other than possibly a undertow of unsaid and implied sectarian bigotism which people dont admit to, but really support. Again, not suggesting you, but im interested to find out, as ive never had a decent response to the question - why should these songs be allowed to be sung (other than to add to atmosphere)? Again, i have never backed the singing of sectarian songs, and again the press release from Hearts does not mention any specific songs so i cant really answer if a certain as yet unnamed thing should be allowed. Football is a tribal sport, tribes will wind each other up for 90 minutes, if thats done without breaking the law regarding sectarian songs all the better. You cant fight the club unless it states what is not acceptable, as far as i know they have never named any song as unacceptable. there seems to be a fam no drought of information detailing specifically what is a sectarian song and what some on here just dont like. Im still waiting on a list of sectarian songs to be posted and for an answer why this board continues to use the term hun even after it has been designated as sectarian by nil by mouth. You dont see fenian on the board much yet hun is accepted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudolf's Mate Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 Its called a debate, And when there are 2 sides, they disagree and often argue....its normal. I asked for clarification, and I previously made an assumption. Why say your not wanting to get involved, then immediately get involved? But to be fair you were trying to pick up on things he was saying that he didn't actually say! You then asked what his stance was on this. My personal opinion on this is that it's ok if it were in a private message however you are asking him his views on a delicate matter probably in the hope that he will effectively hang himself out to dry!!! As you say it's a debate! While I'm here. What about singing God save the Queen? It's a British song! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest S.U.S.S. Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 And I personally see no problem singing Flower of Scotland. It is after all a scottish song and represents our country. But I don't see the relevence of either song to HMFC, or this thread. Its also just a crap song. And racist Joke before the whole FoS GSTQ debate starts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Grimes Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 what a shame to see so many responses that think the message from the club is a problem. and yes, the septic fans will be murder as usual, but does that mean we have to sink to their level? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.