Players still not paid

[Dr. Bapswent]

For the hard of hearing, I'm actually not bothered about the players welfare - I am concerned about the club being dragged through the mire again just when things had settled down.

 

Then stop adding to the mire by making a sensationalist thread out of a non-issue.

 

The papers do enough damage.

[Guest casper]

Did the statement not say the money would be in their accounts by Tuesday Geoff. At the time you posted anything being produced to say "the players still have not been paid" would have had to be based on the fact it wasn't in their accounts by close of banking business Monday (it wasn't expected to be, what I read said the funds would be wired across today).

 

Splitting hair between Monday and Tuesday is not really the point and the EN is reporting that they might not get paid until this Friday.

Hearts have a recent history of delaying payment for tax and shop rent etc, but not paying their employees is a whole new level on two major counts.

1, It does nothing for motivation on the pitch and 2, it's never a good sign in any company when employees are not paid, especially now, given Hearts owners links to the banking industry.

[marshallschunkychicken]

For the hard of hearing, I'm actually not bothered about the players welfare - I am concerned about the club being dragged through the mire again just when things had settled down.

 

Agree with you on this one, Geoff.

 

This sort of publicity never helps, and it just gives ammunition to erses like Ralston.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Then stop adding to the mire by making a sensationalist thread out of a non-issue.

 

The papers do enough damage.

 

What is "sensationalist"?

 

It's hardly adding to the mire by calling for the club to get it sorted when it's within the capability of both the club and UBIG and all it takes is to run the payroll program again!

[luckystrike]

OMG!

 

Almost a whole week?

 

For their thousands?

 

How will they survive!

 

The point is though, David Southern made a promise that it would be paid early this week. Now it appears that it is slipping back to Friday, perhaps in future Southern shouldn't be making promises he doesn't have the authority to carry out.

 

Yet again the club is being run as a joke and its open season for the meedja and the hobos.

[Guest zeeko1]

What another non-story. Nothing has changed since Friday.

 

As I said last week, most fans who dismiss such reports as 'non stories' simply because they don't like them and don't want them to be true (as oppoosed to actually knowing the truth) have my sympathy but we're really just blowing hot air aren't we? but I've seen this sort of thing all to often with a number of other clubs over the years and the latest claim that the wages may now not be paid until the end of the week is far the reassurance I'd be looking for if my wages were in arrears.

 

http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/football/Double-your-money-for-Hearts.4517517.jp

[Rudolf's Mate]

Does the delay in pay only effect our high earners or something? What about the youth players?

 

I agree it is a bit of a non-story assuming it is sorted out today of course.

 

 

It becomes a bit of a story if it effects the harmony within the dressing room, which remains to be seen.

 

Companies I've worked for have ended up having to pay for a chaps payment or TT. Granted they cost ?25 a pop!

[Drylaw Hearts]

If it is the case that the players wages will be a week late will it be ok for this non-story to now become a story ?

[Dr. Bapswent]

What is "sensationalist"?

 

It's hardly adding to the mire by calling for the club to get it sorted when it's within the capability of both the club and UBIG and all it takes is to run the payroll program again!

 

You don't think this is what is happening?

 

If you do, then just let it happen.

 

If you dont, then yes, you are adding to the mire.

[ToadKiller Dog]

OMG!

 

Almost a whole week?

 

For their thousands?

 

How will they survive!

 

Depends if any of them are due Fat Tony a large whack of gambling debts ,

would not want to see Legs pulling out Wallaces toe nails with rusty pliers.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

You don't think this is what is happening?

 

If you do, then just let it happen.

 

If you dont, then yes, you are adding to the mire.

 

No, what's adding to the "mire" is the club's dismissal of the story and then refusing to say when the matter will be closed.

 

It only leads people to be sceptical that the players will actually be paid this week as well.

 

And I do believe that people at HMFC are trying to sort it. What isn't clear is whether there is the same urgency in Lithuania.

[Dr. Bapswent]

No, what's adding to the "mire" is the club's dismissal of the story and then refusing to say when the matter will be closed.

 

It only leads people to be sceptical that the players will actually be paid this week as well.

 

And I do believe that people at HMFC are trying to sort it. What isn't clear is whether there is the same urgency in Lithuania.

 

So Berra saying it wasn't going to be a problem and he wasn't worried, is the club 'dismissal of a story?'

 

Sounds more like them acknowledging it and saying it is no big deal.

 

Why would their be ANY indication of ANYTHING from Lithuania?

 

Only if there IS a big problem would you hear something surely?

 

Stop trying to make something out of a non-story, let the papers do that.

 

The players will get their money late, maybe even a whole week late! but the world will continue turning.

[luckystrike]

No, what's adding to the "mire" is the club's dismissal of the story and then refusing to say when the matter will be closed.

 

It only leads people to be sceptical that the players will actually be paid this week as well.

 

And I do believe that people at HMFC are trying to sort it. What isn't clear is whether there is the same urgency in Lithuania.

 

It may not be a lack of urgency that is the root problem here, perhaps it's the ability to pay that is the problem. The technical glitch bit was almost believable but any credibility that story had will certainly be blown out the water if it is indeed the case that they are having to wait till Friday for it.

[Drylaw Hearts]

So Berra saying it wasn't going to be a problem and he wasn't worried, is the club 'dismissal of a story?'

 

Sounds more like them acknowledging it and saying it is no big deal.

 

Why would their be ANY indication of ANYTHING from Lithuania?

 

Only if there IS a big problem would you hear something surely?

 

Stop trying to make something out of a non-story, let the papers do that.

 

The players will get their money late, maybe even a whole week late! but the world will continue turning.

 

The world stopping to turn isn't the worry though - is it ?

[Paolo]

Again, it should not have happened - but it has, and I am sure it has happened in other businesses too.

 

At least Hearts have acknowledged and communicated it, so until the players are worried about it, I will not be.

[redm]

It becomes a bit of a story if it effects the harmony within the dressing room, which remains to be seen.

 

Companies I've worked for have ended up having to pay for a chaps payment or TT. Granted they cost ?25 a pop!

 

I'd give it about 12 hours before your wish is granted. The trashrag writers will be champing at the bit to write about dressing room unrest - it's the only way they can really give this story longevity.

 

The club captain says there's none and nobody seems remotely bothered by it. But I think we know that nobody will listen to any of that....

[luckystrike]

So Berra saying it wasn't going to be a problem and he wasn't worried, is the club 'dismissal of a story?'

 

Sounds more like them acknowledging it and saying it is no big deal.

 

Why would their be ANY indication of ANYTHING from Lithuania?

 

Only if there IS a big problem would you hear something surely?

 

Stop trying to make something out of a non-story, let the papers do that.

 

The players will get their money late, maybe even a whole week late! but the world will continue turning.

 

you must be on a few free tickets for this staunch defence of the indefensible.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

So Berra saying it wasn't going to be a problem and he wasn't worried, is the club 'dismissal of a story?'

 

Sounds more like them acknowledging it and saying it is no big deal.

 

Why would their be ANY indication of ANYTHING from Lithuania?

Only if there IS a big problem would you hear something surely?

 

Stop trying to make something out of a non-story, let the papers do that.

 

The players will get their money late, maybe even a whole week late! but the world will continue turning.

 

The first highlighted part refers to David Southern's "technical issue", not Christophe Berra.

 

The second part is highlighted because the wages come from Lithuania. Lawrence Broadie confirmed that on the radio on Saturday.

 

The third part is highlighted because it is rapidly becoming a story, due to the way the issues are not being addressed.

 

But I may be wrong. Can I ask when I should be allowed to comment on the issue since you think I am "sensationalising" things?

[SMcD]

I'd give it about 12 hours before your wish is granted. The trashrag writers will be champing at the bit to write about dressing room unrest - it's the only way they can really give this story longevity.

 

The club captain says there's none and nobody seems remotely bothered by it. But I think we know that nobody will listen to any of that....

 

That could well be the case, but it should be remembered that Vlad has previous with employees who said things he didn't like.

[Drylaw Hearts]

I'd give it about 12 hours before your wish is granted. The trashrag writers will be champing at the bit to write about dressing room unrest - it's the only way they can really give this story longevity.

 

The club captain says there's none and nobody seems remotely bothered by it. But I think we know that nobody will listen to any of that....

 

Berra's comments were made when the players thought the were getting the money early this week.

 

If BA's story is true and the players may not be getting paid until Friday then the Club captains view may have changed.

[Rudolf's Mate]

So Berra saying it wasn't going to be a problem and he wasn't worried, is the club 'dismissal of a story?'

 

Just putting another spin on it...

 

Berra's been picked for the Scotland squad and then gets asked in an interview about the wages situation.... You think he's going to say anything with the window closed until Jan???

 

Remember Webster!

[redm]

That could well be the case, but it should be remembered that Vlad has previous with employees who said things he didn't like.

 

Be honest - do any of them seem remotely fussed about it to you?

[Captain Canada]

I fail to see how employees wages in any organisation are a matter of public interest. Someone from within the club obviously bleated to the press and now it's suddenly a big issue. I had a job where I wasn't paid on time every month for over a year - it was nobody else's business though. For me it would only be a concern IF it caused the players to under perform or walk out, until then it's not an issue that really bothers me, so I'm out.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

I fail to see how employees wages in any organisation are a matter of public interest. Someone from within the club obviously bleated to the press and now it's suddenly a big issue. I had a job where I wasn't paid on time every month for over a year - it was nobody else's business though. For me it would only be a concern IF it caused the players to under perform or walk out, until then it's not an issue that really bothers me, so I'm out.

 

I would normally agree. However, it HAS reached the public stage and therefore we have every right to ask whether the matter has been sorted or not. Since it hasn't and the issue is becoming cloudier, we have every right to ask more questions as to what is going on.

 

One other point - it appears the players are paid weekly. Therefore, I would guess it is someone's recurring task to run the payroll each week. What happened last week that was different?

[redm]

Berra's comments were made when the players thought the were getting the money early this week.

 

If BA's story is true and the players may not be getting paid until Friday then the Club captains view may have changed.

 

It's Tuesday. It's still early in the week.

 

Either way, it's all just supposition and listening to the press rather than actually listening to what those involved are saying.

[Rudolf's Mate]

I fail to see how employees wages in any organisation are a matter of public interest. Someone from within the club obviously bleated to the press and now it's suddenly a big issue. I had a job where I wasn't paid on time every month for over a year - it was nobody else's business though. For me it would only be a concern IF it caused the players to under perform or walk out, until then it's not an issue that really bothers me, so I'm out.

 

Depends on the business. A football club depends on it's fans therefore something like this IF true could have a huge effect.

 

I know we're not but some clubs are PLC's meaning it is of interest.

[Drylaw Hearts]

I would normally agree. However, it HAS reached the public stage and therefore we have every right to ask whether the matter has been sorted or not. Since it hasn't and the issue is becoming cloudier, we have every right to ask more questions as to what is going on.

 

One other point - it appears the players are paid weekly. Therefore, I would guess it is someone's recurring task to run the payroll each week. What happened last week that was different?

 

That person was off sick.

 

Vlad-Flu.

[Charlie-Brown]

I would normally agree. However, it HAS reached the public stage and therefore we have every right to ask whether the matter has been sorted or not. Since it hasn't and the issue is becoming cloudier, we have every right to ask more questions as to what is going on.

 

One other point - it appears the players are paid weekly. Therefore, I would guess it is someone's recurring task to run the payroll each week. What happened last week that was different?

 

You have a right to ask questions geoff but unless you are a shareholder or an employee then you have very little right to an answer - the same way as if i was to query when Tesco's intend to pay staff etc.

 

There seems little point in debating this issue every hour / every day - if it becomes a prolonged and repeated occurence then perhaps we should worry however until Hearts players or staff start to indicate that it's a repeated problem or a big problem then why don't we just let the club sort out this internal matter?

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

That person was off sick.

 

Vlad-Flu.

 

I've heard that can be contagious!

[JohnB]

It's all a storm in a tea-cup. Seemingly it's all down to the whole finance section going on a team-building weekend that got a bit out of hand drinkwise. Here's the Finance Manager being interviewed just after the paintball outing - seems they all had just a little too much voddy the previous night - the guy in the background is normally responsible for the bank transfers! The good news is that he should be able to read and write by Thursday.

 

http://www.break.com/usercontent/2007/12/Crazy-Russian-Drunkard-418272.html

[ericb]

One other point - it appears the players are paid weekly. Therefore, I would guess it is someone's recurring task to run the payroll each week. What happened last week that was different?

 

Who said they didn't run it? No-one said the technical hitch was at our end. I'm no financial expert, but I'd have thought in the current climate such hitches may happen more than we realise. Any other club in Scotland, and this would not be reported.

[Dr. Bapswent]

It's Tuesday. It's still early in the week.

 

Either way, it's all just supposition and listening to the press rather than actually listening to what those involved are saying.

 

Exactly.

 

Club captain says one thing.

 

The rags say another.

 

KB ignores the club captain and generates a story which perpetuates and exacerbates some mystic problem within the clubs finances and allows those predisposed fans to have a field day proposing more negative theories.

 

With fans like that, who needs the Old Firm.

[Jambof3tornado]

Come back when the story reads "Hearts players in strike action over non payment of wages",then I will be concerned. Until then this is a nothing story to fill gaps and print something negative about our club. Reporters dont need ammunition because they can make something up if they have nothing to write about.

 

FTH!!:107years:

[SMcD]

Who said they didn't run it? No-one said the technical hitch was at our end. I'm no financial expert, but I'd have thought in the current climate such hitches may happen more than we realise. Any other club in Scotland, and this would not be reported.

 

Not true.

 

There were stories in the papers when Dunfermline were paying wages late/in cash, etc.

[portobellojambo1]

Splitting hair between Monday and Tuesday is not really the point and the EN is reporting that they might not get paid until this Friday.

Hearts have a recent history of delaying payment for tax and shop rent etc, but not paying their employees is a whole new level on two major counts.

1, It does nothing for motivation on the pitch and 2, it's never a good sign in any company when employees are not paid, especially now, given Hearts owners links to the banking industry.

 

It certainly wasn't my intention to split hairs, not getting paid initially and the date on which the delayed payment is due to hit the receiving bank accounts are two totally separate things in my mind. Geoff's OP was in relation to the fact they have still not received outstanding funds, I merely gave a reason as to why that may be.

 

And I am well aware of the problems some have had in getting money out of HMFC in the past. As recently as this year many of the contractors used by Hearts received their first payment in April 2008, since December 2007 It is never good to receive payment late, most people, irrespective of their income budget for the period between which they expect payment to be made to them, and one missed payment puts them in financial trouble (the old adage about the more you have the more you spend).

 

However on this occasion I would be more inclined to believe Hearts, than the EEN, and would only question things if the players are still short of cash after this evening (transferred funds hit accounts as and when banks close off their business for any given day, so the funds for some of them may not show until after 17:00 this evening, assuming the transfer does take place today on a same day TT basis, if transferred by BACS it would have been done late last Thursday or Friday, there is a three working day turnaround from leaving the ceding account to hitting the receiving account).

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Exactly.

 

Club captain says one thing.

 

The rags say another.

 

KB ignores the club captain and generates a story which perpetuates and exacerbates some mystic problem within the clubs finances and allows those predisposed fans to have a field day proposing more negative theories.

 

With fans like that, who needs the Old Firm.

 

Or how about: -

 

"KB" accepts it as a non-story in the first instance but is becoming concerned because the club can't kill the story and allows the media to muck rake again.

[davjambo]

It's all a storm in a tea-cup. Seemingly it's all down to the whole finance section going on a team-building weekend that got a bit out of hand drinkwise. Here's the Finance Manager being interviewed just after the paintball outing - seems they all had just a little too much voddy the previous night - the guy in the background is normally responsible for the bank transfers! The good news is that he should be able to read and write by Thursday.

 

http://www.break.com/usercontent/2007/12/Crazy-Russian-Drunkard-418272.html

 

poor guy looks more like a hobo to me.:107years:

[Tom Heaney]

That person was off sick.

 

Vlad-Flu.

 

Or was it Technicalflu.........Or maybe more apt for our current owners "One Flu Over The Cuckoos Nest":rolleyes:

[hawaii]

Anyone else get the feeling that a few "Hearts" fans would take more delight than the Hobos if the wages weren't paid and Hearts went out of business?

[Drylaw Hearts]

It's Tuesday. It's still early in the week.

 

Either way, it's all just supposition and listening to the press rather than actually listening to what those involved are saying.

 

Those involved haven't made any comments for 72 hours.

 

IIRC they were told they would be paid within 48 hours.

 

 

Maybe they're keeping quiet on the advice of the Club or the Players Union.

 

 

As ever....

 

I wil remain sceptical about this latest issue.

 

 

[Dr. Bapswent]

Or how about: -

 

"KB" accepts it as a non-story in the first instance but is becoming concerned because the club can't kill the story and allows the media to muck rake again.

 

What do you want the club to do?

 

Sort out the players pay? - do you think they haven't done this? or aren't doing this? Dont you think the club have fixed the problem and therefore it is resolved or at least will be soon?

 

Do you want them to publicly address the situation? How, by having the club captain, someone who speaks for the players, who are the ones who are directly affected speak on the situation and say they are not worried? Clearly this has been done.

 

Do you want the club to release MORE statements about it? Do you really want the club to pander to the rags sensationalist stories? You want them to jump everytime the papers release something anti-hearts? To defend themselves all the time? Even over such non-stories?

 

The club have so far done everything that can be expected and done it correctly.

 

ONLY if the problem is not fixed will this EVER become a story worth worrying about.

 

Lets face it Geoff, you thought you were onto a winner by bringing this issue up, but most people have pointed out, it really isn't up to much and instead of letting it go, your hammering away at it trying to convince yourself there really is something worth worrying about here. There really isnt.

 

The problem seems to have been dealt with. The club arent worried. The players arent worried. That should be the end of it.

 

Let the papers have their hissy fit.

 

You should try to rise above it.

[Dr. Bapswent]

Those involved haven't made any comments for 72 hours.

 

IIRC they were told they would be paid within 48 hours.

 

 

Maybe they're keeping quiet on the advice of the Club or the Players Union.

 

 

As ever....

 

I wil remain sceptical about this latest issue.

 

 

 

Jeez,

 

What do you expect, hourly updates?

 

They have said all they need to say.

 

Honestly, some peoples inflated opinion of what they deserve from the club is ridiculous.

[Drylaw Hearts]

Anyone else get the feeling that a few "Hearts" fans would take more delight than the Hobos if the wages weren't paid and Hearts went out of business?

 

No.

 

And I think that is a pretty stupid question to ask.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

What do you want the club to do?

 

Sort out the players pay? - do you think they haven't done this? or aren't doing this? Dont you think the club have fixed the problem and therefore it is resolved or at least will be soon?

 

Do you want them to publicly address the situation? How, by having the club captain, someone who speaks for the players, who are the ones who are directly affected speak on the situation and say they are not worried? Clearly this has been done.

 

Do you want the club to release MORE statements about it? Do you really want the club to pander to the rags sensationalist stories? You want them to jump everytime the papers release something anti-hearts? To defend themselves all the time? Even over such non-stories?

 

The club have so far done everything that can be expected and done it correctly.

 

ONLY if the problem is not fixed will this EVER become a story worth worrying about.

 

Lets face it Geoff, you thought you were onto a winner by bringing this issue up, but most people have pointed out, it really isn't up to much and instead of letting it go, your hammering away at it trying to convince yourself there really is something worth worrying about here. There really isnt.

 

The problem seems to have been dealt with. The club arent worried. The players arent worried. That should be the end of it.

 

Let the papers have their hissy fit.

 

You should try to rise above it.

 

A "winner"? For what precisely? What are you implying? That I'm "sensationalising" this?

 

Since this has come into the public domain, all I'm asking that the club state when this matter will definitely be addressed. The fact that they can't is a farce and should be sorted.

[Drylaw Hearts]

Jeez,

 

What do you expect, hourly updates?

 

They have said all they need to say.

 

Honestly, some peoples inflated opinion of what they deserve from the club is ridiculous.

 

Or they have said all they're allowed to say.

[Dr. Bapswent]

A "winner"? For what precisely? What are you implying? That I'm "sensationalising" this?

 

Since this has come into the public domain, all I'm asking that the club state when this matter will definitely be addressed. The fact that they can't is a farce and should be sorted.

 

The only farce is that you have assumed that because nothing more has been said, there must be a huge issue.

 

The club have said nothing more, most likely because there is nothing more to say. Its being fixed. Its been addressed previously. End of story.

[redm]

Those involved haven't made any comments for 72 hours.

 

IIRC they were told they would be paid within 48 hours.

 

 

Maybe they're keeping quiet on the advice of the Club or the Players Union.

 

 

As ever....

 

I wil remain sceptical about this latest issue.

 

 

 

 

Or maybe they're just not bothered and there's no almighty crisis of twisty knicker proportions looming? I'm going to go with that theory because that's what Berra said and until I hear something else from someone who doesn't have a muck raking agenda and papers to sell, his word is good enough for me.

 

And you're not being sceptical, you're being a doom & gloom monger and looking for the worst case scenario. Have a Kit Kat or something.

[Drylaw Hearts]

The only farce is that you have assumed that because nothing more has been said, there must be a huge issue.

 

The club have said nothing more, most likely because there is nothing more to say. Its being fixed. Its been addressed previously. End of story.

 

And it will get fixed.

 

But there has to a concern over :

 

Why did it break ?

 

Why is taking so long to fix ?

[Cut The Crap]

Can't believe those who would shrug this off as a non-issue. If the club's failure to pay its staff on time is a "non-issue", what exactly would constitute an issue?

 

I also find it hard to go along with the school of thought that says "they are minted, they don't need it". Higher income means in all probability means higher commitments - it doesn't take long at all before it starts to bite.

 

Finally, I wonder how it will help us the next time we try to sign a player, and the choice he has to make is between us and another club which doesn't suffer such "technical hitches"?

[Jambof3tornado]

No.

 

And I think that is a pretty stupid question to ask.

 

Its not a stupid question to ask at all as some posters on this forum seem to delight in sensationalism over the most trivial of matters or where very little REAL information is around,prefer to muddy the waters to make things appear much worse than they are!!!