Pregnant women and smoking

[shaun.lawson]

The other night, my best friend Julia was out with some friends, one of whom is pregnant. This girl was a smoker until recently, quit, but being surrounded by smokers, got a craving for one, and asked one of the group if she could cadge a cigarette from her. The girl she asked then burst into tears, furious that a pregnant woman was going to inflict a ciggie on her unborn child.

 

Julia, a smoker herself also until recently, sided with her friend - which when she told me about it, led to, um, a 'discussion' between us. I asked if she too would ever have a cigarette when pregnant; her reply was that yes, she probably would have the odd one, especially if she was particularly stressed out. She also insisted that as it was her body, it was her right to choose: to which I responded: "but what about the foetus' rights? Where's their choice in all of this - and it'd hardly do them any good, surely?"

 

What do JKBers think? Bear in mind that I'm as pro-choice as they come, and don't have a problem with a pregnant woman having a couple of glasses of wine every now and then - but draw the line at smoking, even if it's only one. Am I a fascist? Has society turned something relatively harmless (ie. the odd cigarette) into a virtual crime against humanity? Or do I have a point?

[Rab]

She also insisted that as it was her body, it was her right to choose

 

Bull****. It's your kid as much as hers, she has no more say over the treatment of said child than you do.

[shaun.lawson]

Bull****. It's your kid as much as hers, she has no more say over the treatment of said child than you do.

 

It's not my kid - and in Julia's case, there is no kid! We're only friends, and we were only talking hypothetically - but to my surprise, her boyfriend said he wouldn't have a problem with it at all. He's generally very relaxed, chilled out and non-judgemental, and I am most of the time too - but if both he and her saw no problem, would I still have a point in being singularly unamused if and when this scenario ever plays out?

[Rab]

It's not my kid - and in Julia's case, there is no kid! We're only friends, and we were only talking hypothetically - but to my surprise, her boyfriend said he wouldn't have a problem with it at all. He's generally very relaxed, chilled out and non-judgemental, and I am most of the time too - but if both he and her saw no problem, would I still have a point in being singularly unamused if and when this scenario ever plays out?

 

I realise it's not your friend that is pregnant, I too was talking the hypothetical situation where she is pregnant with (presumably your) child.

 

Also, why does the fact that her boyfriend and her think that it's cool invalidate your opinion?

[shaun.lawson]

I realise it's not your friend that is pregnant, I too was talking the hypothetical situation where she is pregnant with (presumably your) child.

 

Also, why does the fact that her boyfriend and her think that it's cool invalidate your opinion?

 

Because it's their child we'd be talking about - which would make my views seem perverse. Those would still be my views though: I don't think it's acceptable given everything we know now about the harm smoking when pregnant can do, even if it's only the odd one.

[Captain America]

I also think a woman shouldnt smoke when pregnant, however it is their body and you have no way of controlling it if they want to.

 

P.S. Y did the woman burst into tears aint that bit OTT!

[felix]

Strange group of friends.

Happy to smoke in front of a pregnant woman who's trying to quit,then over-emotional when asked to crash the ash ?

[shaun.lawson]

Strange group of friends.

Happy to smoke in front of a pregnant woman who's trying to quit,then over-emotional when asked to crash the ash ?

 

I'm assuming they weren't doing it in front of her: they'd have had to go outside to smoke, of course. Agree completely about the over-emotional bit, though.

[Griclesfield]

being a father myself i strongly disagree with woman who smoke and or drink during their pregnancy right up until birth ....

 

Smoking during pregnancy can cause serious problems including complications during labour, increased risk of miscarriage, premature birth and even stillbirth

 

so why even risk it ??

[jambo 71]

I totally disagree with smoking whilst pregnant.

 

I stopped smoking when I started trying for my daughter, and it was no biggie, just decided when the packet was finished that was that and I stopped through sheer will power and nothing else.

 

I can be done if you really really want to stop:)

[heartgarfunkel]

If they drink as well as smoke during pregnancy, the nippers end up looking like Barry Nicholson or the Young Twins, foetal alcohol syndrome, a.k.a. Glasgow Korean pus.

[Craig R]

The other night, my best friend Julia was out with some friends, one of whom is pregnant. This girl was a smoker until recently, quit, but being surrounded by smokers, got a craving for one, and asked one of the group if she could cadge a cigarette from her. The girl she asked then burst into tears, furious that a pregnant woman was going to inflict a ciggie on her unborn child.

 

Julia, a smoker herself also until recently, sided with her friend - which when she told me about it, led to, um, a 'discussion' between us. I asked if she too would ever have a cigarette when pregnant; her reply was that yes, she probably would have the odd one, especially if she was particularly stressed out. She also insisted that as it was her body, it was her right to choose: to which I responded: "but what about the foetus' rights? Where's their choice in all of this - and it'd hardly do them any good, surely?"

 

What do JKBers think? Bear in mind that I'm as pro-choice as they come, and don't have a problem with a pregnant woman having a couple of glasses of wine every now and then - but draw the line at smoking, even if it's only one. Am I a fascist? Has society turned something relatively harmless (ie. the odd cigarette) into a virtual crime against humanity? Or do I have a point?

 

Agree with you. I think it's bang out of order and incredibly selfish.

[upthehill]

fairly non plussed about this one. A little bit of what you fancy does you the world of good. A happy relaxed mother is much more likely to have a healthy child. A cigarette every once in a blue moon keeps her happy and relaxed then great.

 

We all know it's bad, and better not to do it, but we all do things we shouldn't and are better off for it!!!

[blondejamtart]

A little of what you fancy does you good? Maybe, but I can't help but agree with the previous poster who says that pregnant women who smoke are being incredibly selfish. After all, their unborn baby has no choice in the matter. If you said to most parents (or parents-to-be, for that matter) that you were going to administer a cocktail of poisonous drugs to their child, some of which are known carcinogens, they'd be horrified, but that's exactly what happens each time a pregnant woman has a cigarette.

[chester copperpot]

If they drink as well as smoke during pregnancy, the nippers end up looking like Barry Nicholson or the Young Twins, foetal alcohol syndrome, a.k.a. Glasgow Korean pus.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I found that incredibly funny.

[Boaby Ewing]

A little of what you fancy does you good? Maybe, but I can't help but agree with the previous poster who says that pregnant women who smoke are being incredibly selfish. After all, their unborn baby has no choice in the matter. If you said to most parents (or parents-to-be, for that matter) that you were going to administer a cocktail of poisonous drugs to their child, some of which are known carcinogens, they'd be horrified, but that's exactly what happens each time a pregnant woman has a cigarette.

 

How do you feel about abortion?

[Ryan Gosling]

Women who smoke while pregnant are Hibbies.

[jackjambo22]

My partner is 7months pregnant and still smokes i have requested on numerous occasions that it would be best if she stops, but she never does:(

 

I'm not happy but i cant make her stop

 

Not condoning it but her Mother was the same and produced 3 healthy kids

 

It's down right selfish and she will (God forbid) have to live with any consequences

 

My partner rarely if ever drinks and is a really sweet person but this is one and probably only thing that we seriously disagree on

[shaun.lawson]

fairly non plussed about this one. A little bit of what you fancy does you the world of good. A happy relaxed mother is much more likely to have a healthy child. A cigarette every once in a blue moon keeps her happy and relaxed then great.

 

We all know it's bad, and better not to do it, but we all do things we shouldn't and are better off for it!!!

 

That, in fairness, was Julia's argument. To be clear: no-one's talking about smoking regularly during pregnancy here. And given how hard it is to quit (I know, because I smoke myself), it must be tough for women to just snap their fingers and stop the moment they realise they are with child.

[Ryan Gosling]

What are the side effects anyway?

[shaun.lawson]

What are the side effects anyway?

 

It can slow foetal development, I believe, leading to more risk of them being underweight at birth or born prematurely. Equally though, it presumably stands to reason that babies most at risk will be carried by mothers who have a poor diet and lifestyle in general.

 

And the point Julia was making was that, while smoking regularly is clearly a terrible idea, the odd one surely isn't going to make much difference?

[blondejamtart]

How do you feel about abortion?

 

That's a whole different argument - but if you get pregnant then decide to have the child, then surely you owe it to that child to give it the best possible start in life?

[Paws (FTH)]

It can slow foetal development, I believe, leading to more risk of them being underweight at birth or born prematurely. Equally though, it presumably stands to reason that babies most at risk will be carried by mothers who have a poor diet and lifestyle in general.

 

And the point Julia was making was that, while smoking regularly is clearly a terrible idea, the odd one surely isn't going to make much difference?

 

Indeed regular smoking during pregnancy does slow foetal development. However so does exposure to stress during pregnancy. Both smoking, stress and other factors such as poor diet contribute to babies of low birth weight, which are statistically more susceptible to various diseases in adulthood, such as cardiovascular disease, type 2 diabetes and mental health problems including depression. I don't think the odd cigarette or glass of wine whilst pregnant will be particularly detrimental, however clearly avoiding these sorts of things willl minimise the incidence of health problems.

[Craigieboy]

Smoking is filth.

 

It amazes me the amount of folk that smoke.

 

I watched Liz dawns programme about her lung disease. The manner in which a person dies as a result of smoking is awful.

 

.

[davemclaren]

Smoking is filth.

 

It amazes me the amount of folk that smoke.

 

I watched Liz dawns programme about her lung disease. The manner in which a person dies as a result of smoking is awful.

 

.

 

Liver failure isn't pleasn't either though...

[benny]

Smoking is filth.

 

It amazes me the amount of folk that smoke.

 

I watched Liz dawns programme about her lung disease. The manner in which a person dies as a result of smoking is awful.

 

.

 

Amazes me the amount of folk that drink and think smoking is unhealthy.

[Craigieboy]

Amazes me the amount of folk that drink and think smoking is unhealthy.

 

Liver failure isn't pleasn't either though...

 

Agreed.

 

Though thats not what we're talking about in this case.

 

.

[Pants Shaton]

When I was a medical student I sat in on an obstetrics clinic in the Borders. The consultant told the expectant mother she should stop smoking as "the children of mothers who smoke have low birth weight and lower IQs" to which she responded (and I kid you not), "I dinnae want a big smart arse baby".

 

If you can't make the relatively modest sacrifice of stopping smoking then why bother having a child. It's a form of child abuse.

[Craigieboy]

When I was a medical student I sat in on an obstetrics clinic in the Borders. The consultant told the expectant mother she should stop smoking as "the children of mothers who smoke have low birth weight and lower IQs" to which she responded (and I kid you not), "I dinnae want a big smart arse baby".

 

If you can't make the relatively modest sacrifice of stopping smoking then why bother having a child. It's a form of child abuse.

 

Now that made me laugh.

 

What a ****wit.

 

.

[Pants Shaton]

Now that made me laugh.

 

What a ****wit.

 

.

 

In the semi-fictional version of that story she wears a Hibs shell-suit.

[upthehill]

That, in fairness, was Julia's argument. To be clear: no-one's talking about smoking regularly during pregnancy here. And given how hard it is to quit (I know, because I smoke myself), it must be tough for women to just snap their fingers and stop the moment they realise they are with child.

 

I don't mean to sound like yer missus mate! But she sounds like a keeper! A really bright lassie. Must be if she thinks like me!

[Craigieboy]

In the semi-fictional version of that story she wears a Hibs shell-suit.

 

A bit embelishment never hurt anyone.

 

[kevmacd]

What do JKBers think? Bear in mind that I'm as pro-choice as they come, and don't have a problem with a pregnant woman having a couple of glasses of wine every now and then - but draw the line at smoking, even if it's only one. Am I a fascist? Has society turned something relatively harmless (ie. the odd cigarette) into a virtual crime against humanity? Or do I have a point?

 

 

I think the stress caused can be more harmful to the baby than the odd ciggie. My older sis was told by her own midwife (a few years ago now mind!) that the odd ciggie wont do any harm. It used to be common for pregnant women to smoke and I know loads of older women who smoked right through pregnancy without any ill effects.

 

As for it being the man's choice whether the mother of their unborn child smokes, thats keech. Unless the bloke is a smoker too and is wiling to also stop then they can have no idea.

 

Incidentally, my wife's up the duff and has stopped smokin, but I wouldn't chastise her for wanting the odd fag if she was totally stressed about something.

[Pants Shaton]

I think the stress caused can be more harmful to the baby than the odd ciggie. My older sis was told by her own midwife (a few years ago now mind!) that the odd ciggie wont do any harm. It used to be common for pregnant women to smoke and I know loads of older women who smoked right through pregnancy without any ill effects.

 

As for it being the man's choice whether the mother of their unborn child smokes, thats keech. Unless the bloke is a smoker too and is wiling to also stop then they can have no idea.

 

Incidentally, my wife's up the duff and has stopped smokin, but I wouldn't chastise her for wanting the odd fag if she was totally stressed about something.

 

Whilst it is true that smoking 4 or 5 cigarettes over the course of a pregnancy is unlikely to inflict any significant harm, it is also quite unlikely, in practice, for a smoker to exercise that degree of self-control. Complete abstinence is unequivocally good and easier to adhere to.

 

A few people seem keen to overplay the 'stress' factor. It is correct that 'stress' can have deleterious effects on the fetus but the 'stress' alluded to, in the studies which prove this, tends to be of the 9/11 survivor/significant life event type. Also the assumption that smoking attenuates the harmful effects of stress is not sound.

 

If a parent allowed their 5 year old child to smoke cigarettes and drink alcohol they would be likely to lose custody of that child. But smoking and drinking (to excess) during pregnancy is likely to inflict far greater harm both in terms of reduction in IQ and, through low birth weight, elevated risk of type 2 diabetes, heart attacks and stroke. It is therefore a form of pre-emptive child abuse. If you can't look after a child before it's born - what chance thereafter?

[Ulysses]

A little of what you fancy does you good? Maybe, but I can't help but agree with the previous poster who says that pregnant women who smoke are being incredibly selfish. After all, their unborn baby has no choice in the matter. If you said to most parents (or parents-to-be, for that matter) that you were going to administer a cocktail of poisonous drugs to their child, some of which are known carcinogens, they'd be horrified, but that's exactly what happens each time a pregnant woman has a cigarette.

 

With all due respect, I have to point out that it can also be quite unhealthy - both for you and for your unborn child if you are pregnant - to fall off your high horse.

[Ulysses]

.... and asked one of the group if she could cadge a cigarette from her. The girl she asked then burst into tears, furious that a pregnant woman was going to inflict a ciggie on her unborn child.

 

Erm, that wasn't the cleverest thing to do. Tears can make your fag soggy and difficult to light.

[i8hibsh]

The other night, my best friend Julia was out with some friends, one of whom is pregnant. This girl was a smoker until recently, quit, but being surrounded by smokers, got a craving for one, and asked one of the group if she could cadge a cigarette from her. The girl she asked then burst into tears, furious that a pregnant woman was going to inflict a ciggie on her unborn child.

 

Julia, a smoker herself also until recently, sided with her friend - which when she told me about it, led to, um, a 'discussion' between us. I asked if she too would ever have a cigarette when pregnant; her reply was that yes, she probably would have the odd one, especially if she was particularly stressed out. She also insisted that as it was her body, it was her right to choose: to which I responded: "but what about the foetus' rights? Where's their choice in all of this - and it'd hardly do them any good, surely?"

 

What do JKBers think? Bear in mind that I'm as pro-choice as they come, and don't have a problem with a pregnant woman having a couple of glasses of wine every now and then - but draw the line at smoking, even if it's only one. Am I a fascist? Has society turned something relatively harmless (ie. the odd cigarette) into a virtual crime against humanity? Or do I have a point?

 

I don't want to offend anyone by my comments I am about to write but the thought of it just annoys me.

 

Firstly, I know many many many people's (especially the older generations) mums probs smoked when they were pregnant, but in all the fairness of the world, the risks and dangers were not exactly known back then

 

now, we all know the risks and dangers and seeing pregnant women smoke angers me so much. I am not saying they will be bad parents but to me it does give me an insight to how they will parent

[blondejamtart]

With all due respect, I have to point out that it can also be quite unhealthy - both for you and for your unborn child if you are pregnant - to fall off your high horse.

 

Been there, done that - several times, but never, I have to say, while I was pregnant!

[Jambo_LuLu]

I studied midwifery and although I didn't finish uni I seen enough of this to know that I would certainly give up smoking if I fell pregnant! The damage done, particularly in early pregnancy, can be extensive. I have seen the difference in placentas of a smoker and none smoker and it's horrific! The healthy placenta is large, full and smooth! The unhealthy one is a lot smaller, darker in colour and grainy! It is disgsuting! I would never ever preach but if more women knew exactly how much harm that even a few cigarettes can cause to an unborn baby - i can guarantee that a lot of them would think twice about lighting up...

[BlackJAC?]

Smoking on a regular basis whilst pregnant is unfair on the child, but I really doubt having 20 ciggies spread out over the duration of the pregnancy will have a decremental impact on the kid. However, the same can't be said about alcohol, yet for some reason it's more acceptable. Another thing I can't fathom out is why some people get their knickers in a twist over the smoking issue, but think nothing of feeding their own kids a heap of ****e like sweeties, crisps et al.

 

It would be interesting to see how the childhood obesity/diabetes figures stack up against the illnesses the exposed-to-20-or-so-ciggies kids have had to endure.

 

Some people really need to look at themselves before criticising others.

[Forever Maroon]

Get this one, my burds pal smoked all through her pregnancy ? now the bairns born she?ll no smoke in front of it, she goes into another room or whatever, don?t figure.

 

Personally I find it disgusting, the mother has a choice whether to smoke or not the unborn child doesn?t??by smoking you are giving the poor blighter a unfair start in life!

[BlackJAC?]

Get this one, my burds pal smoked all through her pregnancy ? now the bairns born she?ll no smoke in front of it, she goes into another room or whatever, don?t figure.

 

Personally I find it disgusting, the mother has a choice whether to smoke or not the unborn child doesn?t??by smoking you are giving the poor blighter a unfair start in life!

 

And here's the best part, smoking in another room doesn't make one iota of a difference. if she's smoking in the same house, then she's as well just smoking next to the kid as the toxins and smoke don't discriminate between gaps in doors and an open room. then you have the nicotine staining on walls etc, that too is toxic and can lead to health problems.

[Pants Shaton]

Smoking on a regular basis whilst pregnant is unfair on the child, but I really doubt having 20 ciggies spread out over the duration of the pregnancy will have a decremental impact on the kid. However, the same can't be said about alcohol, yet for some reason it's more acceptable. Another thing I can't fathom out is why some people get their knickers in a twist over the smoking issue, but think nothing of feeding their own kids a heap of ****e like sweeties, crisps et al.

 

It would be interesting to see how the childhood obesity/diabetes figures stack up against the illnesses the exposed-to-20-or-so-ciggies kids have had to endure.

 

Some people really need to look at themselves before criticising others.

 

It's acceptable because there is no evidence that a few units of alcohol/week has any detrimental effect. The Department of Health guidelines have changed (they advise no alcohol) but the evidence hasn't.

[BlackJAC?]

Where's the evidence that says smoking 1 ciggie every 2 or so weeks does more harm than a few units of drinking alcohol? that's not my point anyway, my point is drinking alcohol is potentially more harmful in the short term than what smoking a 20 pack would be. Or another way to look at it, if a female usually goes out on a Saturday, didn't really change her socialising habits thus drinks about 4 or 5 pints and smokes her usual allocation of ciggies what's going to affect the unborn baby more?

 

I'd hazard a guess and say the alcohol as it's a faster and more potent toxin than a ciggie. I've never heard about anyone that's died within months due to heavy smoking (20/30-ciggies-a-day), whereas alcohol can kill someone in a matter of hours.

[BlackJAC?]

here's a snippet from from baby site:

 

Alcohol is a toxin. When you drink, it rapidly reaches your baby through your bloodstream and across the placenta. Too much alcohol can cause permanent damage to the cells of a developing baby.

 

Do we all agree that the above statement is true?

 

If so, it begs the question - How can any toxin entering an unborn child's bloodstream be deemed as safe? Would people give their neonate diluted alcohol during their feeds? If not, why? Surely it's going to have the exact same effects?

[Pants Shaton]

here's a snippet from from baby site:

 

 

 

Do we all agree that the above statement is true?

 

If so, it begs the question - How can any toxin entering an unborn child's bloodstream be deemed as safe? Would people give their neonate diluted alcohol during their feeds? If not, why? Surely it's going to have the exact same effects?

 

If the internet said it...

 

A glass of wine once or twice a week in the last 2 trimesters will not have any appreciable effect on fetal development. The evidence supports this. The UK DoH guidelines suggest abstinence simply because this is a clear message for the general public. The same would (probably) be true of cigarette smoking, except few smokers limit themselves to one or two cigarettes a week.

 

My wife and I are doctors and many of our friends are. None smoked during pregnancy but all had the occasional glass of wine. If my son ever asks for an Easter Rd season ticket , I'll re-evaluate the evidence.

 

The analogy between smoking and alcohol is weakened by the fact that there is no 'good' amount of smoking from a health perspective. Those with moderate alcohol intake, on the other hand, generally do better than teetotallers with respect to cardiovascular disease. (although clearly this doesn't apply to pregnancy)

[redm]

It's the choice and decision of the pregnant woman and nobody else, much in the same way that it's her decision what she eats or drinks, what medication or pharmaceuticals she uses, how careful she is going up or down stairs or anything else. There are a million and 1 things which affect the unborn child and as most contributing to this thread will never have to consider any of these things, I find it unsurprising that they're so judgemental.

 

Each to their own.

[chester copperpot]

It's the choice and decision of the pregnant woman and nobody else, much in the same way that it's her decision what she eats or drinks, what medication or pharmaceuticals she uses, how careful she is going up or down stairs or anything else. There are a million and 1 things which affect the unborn child and as most contributing to this thread will never have to consider any of these things, I find it unsurprising that they're so judgemental.

 

Each to their own.

 

 

I aint going to get involved in an argument, but I think that argument is garbage. You're obiviously taking the female's side, regardless of the consequences.

 

I have 2 very healthy kids. Thanks to their mother being very health conscious and taking the right path.

 

Any woman who smokes during their pregnancy is just selfish. And it pains me to say this, but I gave up smoking during my wife's pregnancy, my son turned out to be asthmatic, but at least it wasn't my fault or my wife's, who doesn't smoke anyway. Kids deserve better than whats being offered to them.

[Pants Shaton]

It's the choice and decision of the pregnant woman and nobody else, much in the same way that it's her decision what she eats or drinks, what medication or pharmaceuticals she uses, how careful she is going up or down stairs or anything else. There are a million and 1 things which affect the unborn child and as most contributing to this thread will never have to consider any of these things, I find it unsurprising that they're so judgemental.

 

Each to their own.

 

That's all very well but neglects the rights, whatever they may be, of the unborn child. A women who is 30 weeks pregnant, abusing alcohol and smoking 20 cigarettes a day is almost indistinguishable from a women who plys their 6 year old child with alcohol and tobacco; which most people would find morally repugnant.

[redm]

I aint going to get involved in an argument, but I think that argument is garbage. You're obiviously taking the female's side, regardless of the consequences.

 

I have 2 very healthy kids. Thanks to their mother being very health conscious and taking the right path.

 

Any woman who smokes during their pregnancy is just selfish. And it pains me to say this, but I gave up smoking during my wife's pregnancy, my son turned out to be asthmatic, but at least it wasn't my fault or my wife's, who doesn't smoke anyway. Kids deserve better than whats being offered to them.

 

I'm not interested in arguing either Chester, my point is simply that it's very easy to sit and judge others. Nobody is questioning that giving kids the best possible start is the ideal situation, but there are a million and one ways in which that can be done. Would you want someone casting aspersions on your wife for what she may have chosen to eat during her pregnancy, or the painkillers she took, or perhaps even the things she DIDN'T do? I doubt it.

 

Interesting that you suggest I'm taking 'the females side, regardless of consequences' though....do females have their own 'side' when it comes to this stuff??

 

I'm not saying it's healthy, I'm not suggesting people should do it, I'm simply suggesting that people get off their high horse about it.