Pregnant women and smoking

[redm]

That's all very well but neglects the rights, whatever they may be, of the unborn child. A women who is 30 weeks pregnant, abusing alcohol and smoking 20 cigarettes a day is almost indistinguishable from a women who plys their 6 year old child with alcohol and tobacco; which most people would find morally repugnant.

 

When you break it down to extremes such as a 30 week pregnant woman abusing alcohol and smoking 20 a day then yes, of course it's going to be morally repugnant. But in most scenarios are we really talking about extremes? This whole thread started because of one woman having one cigarette....BIG difference.

[BlackJAC?]

Redm, what you see happening here is people being selective in their condemnation, it's what us Scots do best. After all, it's easier to condemn others than to pick fault with ourselves.

 

I wonder how many of these moral crusaders would openly admit to endangering their kids health by feeding them salt and lard on a daily basis. Even though many Scots now realise we're killing our kids by feeding them lard and salt everyday we still do it.

 

if you were to ask any parent on these boards are their kids fat/obese, every single person would say no because they are either ashamed or ignorant. nobody would admit to abusing their kids, so they simply redirect their moral outrage at others. A good few people would be shocked at what they consider to be chubby or a little bit fat, would actually be considered medically obese by doctors. Too many people think to be obese you have to be morbidly obese, and that's simply not the case.

[Dr. Bapswent]

It's the choice and decision of the pregnant woman and nobody else, much in the same way that it's her decision what she eats or drinks, what medication or pharmaceuticals she uses, how careful she is going up or down stairs or anything else. There are a million and 1 things which affect the unborn child and as most contributing to this thread will never have to consider any of these things, I find it unsurprising that they're so judgemental.

 

Each to their own.

 

Its up to the mother - yes.

 

But its not up to the tax payer to fund medical treatment and lifelong care.

[davemclaren]

Its up to the mother - yes.

 

But its not up to the tax payer to fund medical treatment and lifelong care.

 

It is actually.

[Paws (FTH)]

Its up to the mother - yes.

 

But its not up to the tax payer to fund medical treatment and lifelong care.

 

It is. The taxpayer funds treatment of those needing it, be it self-inflicted or otherwise.

[i8hibsh]

It's the choice and decision of the pregnant woman and nobody else, much in the same way that it's her decision what she eats or drinks, what medication or pharmaceuticals she uses, how careful she is going up or down stairs or anything else. There are a million and 1 things which affect the unborn child and as most contributing to this thread will never have to consider any of these things, I find it unsurprising that they're so judgemental.

 

Each to their own.

 

There is nothing in this post that anyone can disagree with. What you say is very correct. It is 100% up to the woman what she does with her body, however here is the harsh fact:

 

Smoking can POTENTIALLY harm the baby at birth and it's future life

 

now for me this is a non brainer - ANYONE who does not take heed of this is acting extremely irresponsibly

 

I appreciate that women are often addicted to nicotine pre pregnancy and it is hard to give up but FGS what more motivation do you need than what I have highlighted?

 

As I said previously, I certainly don't think this will mean the mum will be a bad mother, I just think it is extremely selfish and irresponsible to do so

 

[redm]

I look forward to reading the follow-up threads on how people can be less morally repugnant parents with specific reference to the chemicals, pollutants and other types of crap that they allow their children to take in. Perhaps you could just go the whole hog and have a thread about those who neglect their childrens psychological growth by failing to pay adequate attention to their emotional needs, or maybe even their education.

 

What about those parents who fight and swear at each other in front of their children? Or those who get completely drunk and act like ***** in front of their kids? Surely that's a good call for irresponsible parenting...

 

Big can of worms to open huh?

[Dr. Bapswent]

It is actually.

 

As in they dont get to decide to pay or not to pay.

[davemclaren]

I look forward to reading the follow-up threads on how people can be less morally repugnant parents with specific reference to the chemicals, pollutants and other types of crap that they allow their children to take in. Perhaps you could just go the whole hog and have a thread about those who neglect their childrens psychological growth by failing to pay adequate attention to their emotional needs, or maybe even their education.

 

What about those parents who fight and swear at each other in front of their children? Or those who get completely drunk and act like ***** in front of their kids? Surely that's a good call for irresponsible parenting...

 

Big can of worms to open huh?

 

Barbara's words at the book launch must have stirred something in you...

[davemclaren]

As in they dont get to decide to pay or not to pay.

 

Ah, true. But that's how taxation generally works.

[Dr. Bapswent]

I look forward to reading the follow-up threads on how people can be less morally repugnant parents with specific reference to the chemicals, pollutants and other types of crap that they allow their children to take in. Perhaps you could just go the whole hog and have a thread about those who neglect their childrens psychological growth by failing to pay adequate attention to their emotional needs, or maybe even their education.

 

What about those parents who fight and swear at each other in front of their children? Or those who get completely drunk and act like ***** in front of their kids? Surely that's a good call for irresponsible parenting...

 

Big can of worms to open huh?

 

Some things you can avoid, some are more difficult.

 

Putting your kids at an increased risk is what were talking about.

[Dr. Bapswent]

Ah, true. But that's how taxation generally works.

 

Are you trying to be patronising?

[redm]

Barbara's words at the book launch must have stirred something in you...

 

Which words? She said a lot of things...hehe.

 

Very wise woman.

 

EDIT: I've just remembered! Had forgotten about that. Heehee. Ach Dave, now you've ruined my solemn mood.

[davemclaren]

Are you trying to be patronising?

 

Not particularly, do you feel patronised?

[redm]

Some things you can avoid, some are more difficult.

 

Putting your kids at an increased risk is what were talking about.

 

Yes, some are easier than others aren't they? I'll leave you to work out which from my list are easier than others.

 

However, I think you're missing my point.

[Dr. Bapswent]

Not particularly, do you feel patronised?

 

Well your trying.

[davemclaren]

Well your trying.

 

Did your mother smoke while you were in the womb?

[Dr. Bapswent]

Did your mother smoke while you were in the womb?

 

I wouldnt go down the route of throwing insults Dave.

[i8hibsh]

I look forward to reading the follow-up threads on how people can be less morally repugnant parents with specific reference to the chemicals, pollutants and other types of crap that they allow their children to take in. Perhaps you could just go the whole hog and have a thread about those who neglect their childrens psychological growth by failing to pay adequate attention to their emotional needs, or maybe even their education.

 

What about those parents who fight and swear at each other in front of their children? Or those who get completely drunk and act like ***** in front of their kids? Surely that's a good call for irresponsible parenting...

 

Big can of worms to open huh?

 

All that you mention is as heinous as smoking whilst pregnant but with respect this thread is discussing smoking whilst pregnant.

 

We could go on and on about the do's and don't of parenting.I unfortunately am not a parent and have not had the privaledge to raise a child.

 

I know how hard it must be, but to endanger an unborn child before it has had it's right to grow is not right.

 

I think it is a woman's responsibility(whilst pregnant) to ensure she eats fresh healthy food, drinks lots of water, consumes little alcohol and does not smoke.

 

I also can understand how utterly boring and hard this must be for some woman but unfortunately noone said bringing a child into the world is a laugh a minute.

 

Can you imagine how guilty a mother would feel if she (god forbid) her child was born with serious health problems caused by smoking during preganancy.

 

I also 100% appreciate how EASY men have it and we get the easy deal, whilst women get the extremly raw deal. Child Birth and the carrying of the child must be a non stop chore, but unfortunately that is just the way nature intends and we can't argue that unfortunately

 

Now if noone minds i'm going on to the nearest thread to be a troll and an erse as this is getting way too serious and i have a reputation to upkeep and i don't want anyone to think I am actually talking sense

[Ulysses]

Big can of worms to open huh?

 

Go get 'em.

 

Someone posted that there's no "safe" level of cigarette smoking. Well, that's one way of looking at it, but you show me two people, one who smokes 30 a day and one who smokes 5, and I'll gladly place bets on which one is likely to live longer.

 

There are loads of things pregnant women "shouldn't do" - and loads of busybodies to say "tsk tsk" when they do.

 

Me, I have a few rules, and one of them is that you don't beat up on pregnant women - and that includes guilt-tripping.

[Ulysses]

as heinous as smoking whilst pregnant....

 

Here's a deal for you. PM me a delivery address, and I'll post you a dictionary.

 

But for now, here's a definition to be going on with. Whatever else you say, don't say I'm not good to you.

 

Heinous: hatefully or shockingly evil

Source: Merriam-Webster

[Boaby Ewing]

 

Me, I have a few rules, and one of them is that you don't beat up on pregnant women - and that includes guilt-tripping.

 

I thought that was how terminations were handled on the Emerald Isle?

[Ulysses]

I thought that was how terminations were handled on the Emerald Isle?

 

Not since 1992.

[blondejamtart]

All that you mention is as heinous as smoking whilst pregnant but with respect this thread is discussing smoking whilst pregnant.

 

We could go on and on about the do's and don't of parenting.I unfortunately am not a parent and have not had the privaledge to raise a child.

 

I know how hard it must be, but to endanger an unborn child before it has had it's right to grow is not right.

 

I think it is a woman's responsibility(whilst pregnant) to ensure she eats fresh healthy food, drinks lots of water, consumes little alcohol and does not smoke.

 

I also can understand how utterly boring and hard this must be for some woman but unfortunately noone said bringing a child into the world is a laugh a minute.

 

Can you imagine how guilty a mother would feel if she (god forbid) her child was born with serious health problems caused by smoking during preganancy.

 

I also 100% appreciate how EASY men have it and we get the easy deal, whilst women get the extremly raw deal. Child Birth and the carrying of the child must be a non stop chore, but unfortunately that is just the way nature intends and we can't argue that unfortunately

 

Now if noone minds i'm going on to the nearest thread to be a troll and an erse as this is getting way too serious and i have a reputation to upkeep and i don't want anyone to think I am actually talking sense

 

Well said! With the best will in the world, a woman can do all the right things throughout her pregnancy and sadly, sometimes it still isn't enough. However, surely it makes sense to avoid those risks which can be avoided in an attempt to give your baby the best start in life. I can only say that I'd have been devastated if either of my child had been born with health problems as a result of something I'd done or not done while I was pregnant. There are risks in life which none of us can control, but if you make the choice to have children, then, in my opinion (and yes, it is just my own personal view), then you owe it to that child to do everything you can to give them the best possible start in life.

[Guest S.U.S.S.]

Here's a deal for you. PM me a delivery address, and I'll post you a dictionary.

 

But for now, here's a definition to be going on with. Whatever else you say, don't say I'm not good to you.

 

Heinous: hatefully or shockingly evil

Source: Merriam-Webster

 

And what would you call potentially harming an unborn child?

 

Caring?

[i8hibsh]

Here's a deal for you. PM me a delivery address, and I'll post you a dictionary.

 

But for now, here's a definition to be going on with. Whatever else you say, don't say I'm not good to you.

 

Heinous: hatefully or shockingly evil

Source: Merriam-Webster

 

I can't belive an Irishman is telling me about the English language

 

yer good I'll give you that

[Morry]

My mum smoked when she was pregnant with me. I have no stunted growth or ill health problems. Im a bit mental but I don't think thats got anything to do with it. I also ravage her with guilt about it to this day.

 

However If my gf was preggers with our baby I would slap her silly if she took up smoking whilst pregnant. (because slapping a pregnant womans great for the baby )

 

I think smoking is selfish at the best of times but even for hardened smokers you have to get over yourself. Whats more important your childs health or a quick nicotine hit? Being preggers is a good excuse to stop.

 

Each to their own I guess.

[i8hibsh]

My mum smoked when she was pregnant with me. I have no stunted growth or ill health problems. Im a bit mental but I don't think thats got anything to do with it. I also ravage her with guilt about it to this day.

 

However If my gf was preggers with our baby I would slap her silly if she took up smoking whilst pregnant. (because slapping a pregnant womans great for the baby )

 

I think smoking is selfish at the best of times but even for hardened smokers you have to get over yourself. Whats more important your childs health or a quick nicotine hit? Being preggers is a good excuse to stop.

 

Each to their own I guess.

 

 

Exactly. I'd go easy on yer old dear tho as back then (assuming you are not like 10 years old) things were different

[Ulysses]

And what would you call potentially harming an unborn child?

 

Caring?

 

No.

 

So what? The term used was "heinous". Er, reality check called for, IMHO.

[Ulysses]

I can't belive an Irishman is telling me about the English language

 

yer good I'll give you that

 

Even if I was Australian (or Japanese, for that matter) it doesn't take away from the fact that your choice of adjective wasn't the cleverest I've seen.

 

We should all be careful, and do our best to manage risks - especially known risks like smoking during pregnancy. But I don't think irrational and over-emotional language helps the discussion.

[Cigaro]

What are the side effects anyway?

 

It can slow foetal development, I believe, leading to more risk of them being underweight at birth or born prematurely. Equally though, it presumably stands to reason that babies most at risk will be carried by mothers who have a poor diet and lifestyle in general.

 

And the point Julia was making was that, while smoking regularly is clearly a terrible idea, the odd one surely isn't going to make much difference?

 

I know someone who is very very short due to their mother smoking thoughout pregnancy.

[Ulysses]

I know someone who is very very short due to their mother smoking thoughout pregnancy.

 

By any chance, is his name "Cigaretto"?

[Cigaro]

No...I dont get it.

 

I'm 5'9 though so it aint me.

[Ulysses]

No...I dont get it.

 

I'm 5'9 though so it aint me.

 

Ah well, I'll just have to abandon my hopes of a career in comedy.

[i8hibsh]

Even if I was Australian (or Japanese, for that matter) it doesn't take away from the fact that your choice of adjective wasn't the cleverest I've seen.

 

We should all be careful, and do our best to manage risks - especially known risks like smoking during pregnancy. But I don't think irrational and over-emotional language helps the discussion.

 

Oh i'm sure i'm not the first to over state something on this board

[Cigaro]

Ah well, I'll just have to abandon my hopes of a career in comedy.

Ok maybe I have got it.

 

Smoking etc?

 

Its late...

[i8hibsh]

No...I dont get it.

 

I'm 5'9 though so it aint me.

 

more like a cigarillo is it not?

 

never heard them called cigarettos

[Cigaro]

more like a cigarillo is it not?

 

never heard them called cigarettos

Yeah thats why I never got it.

 

[Ulysses]

more like a cigarillo is it not?

 

never heard them called cigarettos

 

Nor have I. That's the point.

 

Aw nuts, I'd better stick to being a bureaucrat.

[Ulysses]

Oh i'm sure i'm not the first to over state something on this board

 

Undoubtedly. But real men don't pick fights with pregnant women.

[The Brow]

Theres absolutely no evidence to suggest smoking and drinking whilst pregnant harms your baby........

 

[Guest S.U.S.S.]

No.

 

So what? The term used was "heinous". Er, reality check called for, IMHO.

 

and would you not agree he is entitled to his own opinion?

 

Whats heinous to him may not be to you but belittling his opinion does nothing but make you look petty.

 

I would agree with him, doing something that could cause a child (born or unborn) is a despicable act. To chance harming a child shows someone for what they are.

[blondejamtart]

Re the Brow's post, I think that's a bit unfair, to be honest. I'm by no means a Jordan fan, but by all accounts, her son's problems are genetically-related and no fault of his mother's.

[The Brow]

It was meant as a joke!

 

The disease he has (Septo-optic Dysplasia) hasnt been proven one way or another to be linked to Alcohol and fags whilst the foetus is in early development. Some say yes others say no. But back to the subject matter....

[Guest S.U.S.S.]

It was meant as a joke!

 

The disease he has (Septo-optic Dysplasia) hasnt been proven one way or another to be linked to Alcohol and fags whilst the foetus is in early development. Some say yes others say no. But back to the subject matter....

 

Yes, a childs suffering is a great subject for jest.

[Ulysses]

and would you not agree he is entitled to his own opinion?

 

Whats heinous to him may not be to you but belittling his opinion does nothing but make you look petty.

 

I would agree with him, doing something that could cause a child (born or unborn) is a despicable act. To chance harming a child shows someone for what they are.

 

Where did I say that he wasn't entitled to his own opinion? Of course he's entitled to his own opinion. But if that opinion is irrationally OTT, then others are entitled to say so.

 

It's a messageboard. If we all agreed it would be a bit dull, wouldn't it?

[Guest S.U.S.S.]

Where did I say that he wasn't entitled to his own opinion? Of course he's entitled to his own opinion. But if that opinion is irrationally OTT, then others are entitled to say so.

 

It's a messageboard. If we all agreed it would be a bit dull, wouldn't it?

 

But who are we to decide if his opinion is irrationally ott? And i agree it would be dull. Thats one thing the shed usually isnt.

[i8hibsh]

Undoubtedly. But real men don't pick fights with pregnant women.

 

I normally wait until they have had the kid before I give them a good bruising!

[i8hibsh]

Theres absolutely no evidence to suggest smoking and drinking whilst pregnant harms your baby........

 

 

what a nonsense

 

of course there is

[Ulysses]

I normally wait until they have had the kid before I give them a good bruising!

 

YIKES!

 

Now it's time for me to