SNP WIN Glasgow East ( merged threads )

[arfurdaley]

Why do the SNP want to wait until 2010 before having a referendum on independence?

[i8hibsh]

Yes I do believe that.

 

However I agree with much of what you say, I just differ on the reasons behind them. You say nature, I say nurture. And a responsible government could turn it arund for them.

 

I agree with you they have had every opportunity we have had, they simply don't either know or are unwilling to accept it. Society has drawn a line in the sand and the less fortunate people like those in Glasgow East believe they cannot ideologically cross it.

 

Not enough is done at grassroots to make these people feel part of the same world we are. This leads to a seige mentality, tribalism and a deep seated mistrust of us and our values - hard work, self improvement etc.

 

If we worked harder at breaking these barriers then more job opportunities would spring up in these areas and life would improve for them.

 

The key point is these people are demonised with terms like 'sc um', 'vile' etc. But if we gave them a bit fo pride in themselves they could be so much more.

 

 

Try and say that to all the current self made millionaires/billionaires of this world who grew up post war!!

 

Or even just the ones that live modest lives but stay out of trouble

 

The parents of these kids are trash - they are to blame.

 

The kids will also grow up to be trash

 

Build a wall around glasgow build a huge tap and fill the thing with water!

[doctor jambo]

You are misunderstanding the point in becoming independent.

 

It's not about England. Whether English have it better is simply not an issue.

 

It's about Scotland and making a country for ourselves that is the best it can be. I firmly believe that our potential as in independent country within the EU is far superior than it is as a region within the UK.

 

Or more to the point, as a region, within the Uk, within the EU.

Sounds fairly impotent when put like that does it not?

Some would say totally irrelevent in the scale of things.

And that is how it will be if the union survives

Where does that leave the likes of our fishermen?

[i8hibsh]

Why do the SNP want to wait until 2010 before having a referendum on independence?

 

Gives them 2 more years to brainwash and teach their propognada

 

the voting age will conveniantly be lowered during this time also

 

and if anyone watched the schools question time a month back you will know that we are in for certain doom if kids get the vote!

[upthehill]

Because Jesus is a fictitious character perhaps

 

You cannot honestly believe that - can you?

[Denny Crane]

Try and say that to all the current self made millionaires/billionaires of this world who grew up post war!!

 

Or even just the ones that live modest lives but stay out of trouble

 

The parents of these kids are trash - they are to blame.

 

The kids will also grow up to be trash

 

Build a wall around glasgow build a huge tap and fill the thing with water!

 

Who says General Franco is dead!?

[doctor jambo]

Try and say that to all the current self made millionaires/billionaires of this world who grew up post war!!

 

Or even just the ones that live modest lives but stay out of trouble

 

The parents of these kids are trash - they are to blame.

 

The kids will also grow up to be trash

 

Build a wall around glasgow build a huge tap and fill the thing with water!

 

Pretty much all the self made billionaires came from social housing areas- Paphitis, Sugar, Branson, Hunter etc

We have now got into the state where I would be very surprised if our social housing areas produced anything apart from sportsmen

They need MASSIVE help to restore what were once decent areas (my wife came from social housing, single parent family - the area she grew up in was once fine, now it is a sinkhole)

It only took a generation to ruin them, it is possible to resurrect them also

The UK cannot do it- Scotland may just have the wherewithal to do it- and the oil money to fund it

[i8hibsh]

You cannot honestly believe that - can you?

 

hmmmmmmmmmm let me think - yes

 

Do I belive there was a man called Jesus Christ from Nazareth - yes

 

Do i belive that he turned water to wine etc - er i think i'm gunna have to say no

 

Harry Potter is make believe too

[troonjambo]

Wouldn't you?

 

No matter your feeling on the outcome of the by-election it is a sad fact that these poor people will now be forgotten again: cut adrift, disenfranchised and hidden away. Until the next time someone needs their vote.

 

What a pitiful attitude to have towards people less fortunate than yourself, who have no opportunities in life and are given no incentives to turn things around by the powers that be.

 

The Conservatives screwed these people and New Labour did NOTHING to help.

 

Time for the SNP to give it a shot I say.

 

labour has done a ****load to help "these people" the east end of glasgow has (like many parts of britain FFS)been regenerated by the longest period of economic growth in modern British history not to mention the massive regeneration of the schools and housing .

However like most of the people in this country they have short memory's

[Patrick Bateman]

Gives them 2 more years to brainwash and teach their propognada

 

the voting age will conveniantly be lowered during this time also

 

and if anyone watched the schools question time a month back you will know that we are in for certain doom if kids get the vote!

 

Can facts be considered propaganda? Or does that not suit your agenda? (If you have one, other than hysterical Anti-SNP feeling)

[i8hibsh]

Pretty much all the self made billionaires came from social housing areas- Paphitis, Sugar, Branson, Hunter etc

We have now got into the state where I would be very surprised if our social housing areas produced anything apart from sportsmen

They need MASSIVE help to restore what were once decent areas (my wife came from social housing, single parent family - the area she grew up in was once fine, now it is a sinkhole)

It only took a generation to ruin them, it is possible to resurrect them also

The UK cannot do it- Scotland may just have the wherewithal to do it- and the oil money to fund it

 

yes that is my point

[cosanostra]

You cannot honestly believe that - can you?

 

There probably was some politician called Jesus with a bit of charisma and a chilled out view of life, but i believe he was the son of god and could turn water into wine about as much as I believe in Santa Claus or the tooth fairy.

[i8hibsh]

Can facts be considered propaganda? Or does that not suit your agenda? (If you have one, other than hysterical Anti-SNP feeling)

 

Us being incarcerated by the English is not a fact

Us not being free is not a fact

All english people having Coutts Bank Accounts is not a fact

 

8 out of the 10 most depreived areas in Britain are in england

1 in Wales

1 in Scotland

[Drew Busby !]

Why do the SNP want to wait until 2010 before having a referendum on independence?

 

• To govern well and in the interests of 5 million people of all races, colours and beliefs. All of them Scots.
  
• To give some positive vision now and over the next 2 years of how life might be if we step up to the plate and take more responsibility for governing ourselves in the future.
  
• To wait for Labour to conclude their long suicide note by jumping to electoral death in 2010.
  
• To pose the question if Scots wanted to be governed by a forthcoming Tory majority as they were for 18 years between 1979 and 1997.
  
• To offer them the alternative to govern themselves or to opt to live under Tory government for the next decade or two.
  

 

Simple enough

[cosanostra]

Us being incarcerated by the English is not a fact

Us not being free is not a fact

All english people having Coutts Bank Accounts is not a fact

 

8 out of the 10 most depreived areas in Britain are in england

1 in Wales

1 in Scotland

 

Who exactly has ever said that these are reasons for being independent apart from you?

[troonjambo]

You let yourself down with that sort of stuff mate. It's not constructive or funny, it just makes it harder to take your decent points seriously.

 

you have to be up to be let down a constant barrage of sweeping generalizations consisting of stereotyping 2 hundred thousand people as criminals and **** and in need of exterminating hardly makes reading or debating with the author of any point at all

[loveofthegame]

• To govern well and in the interests of 5 million people of all races, colours and beliefs. All of them Scots.
  
• To give some positive vision now and over the next 2 years of how life might be if we step up to the plate and take more responsibility for governing ourselves in the future.
  
• To wait for Labour to conclude their long suicide note by jumping to electoral death in 2010.
  
• To pose the question if Scots wanted to be governed by a forthcoming Tory majority as they were for 18 years between 1979 and 1997.
  
• To offer them the alternative to govern themselves or to opt to live under Tory government for the next decade or two.
  

 

Simple enough

 

The scariest part is, as you have pointed out above, that the SNP get to set the question. Hopefully the public will see through it.

[Drew Busby !]

Us being incarcerated by the English is not a fact

Us not being free is not a fact

All english people having Coutts Bank Accounts is not a fact

 

8 out of the 10 most depreived areas in Britain are in england

1 in Wales

1 in Scotland

 

This is truly top entertainment i8hibsh... thanks muchly, I'll be following your posts all day long :D

[Patrick Bateman]

Us being incarcerated by the English is not a fact

Us not being free is not a fact

All english people having Coutts Bank Accounts is not a fact

 

8 out of the 10 most depreived areas in Britain are in england

1 in Wales

1 in Scotland

 

Can you provide quotes from the SNP which would support your first three "points" please?

 

Oh, and according to http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/1826411.stm

 

The 10 poorest British parliamentary constituencies

1) Glasgow Shettleston

2) Glasgow Springburn

3) Glasgow Maryhill

4) Birmingham Ladywood

5) Manchester Central

6) Camberwell and Peckham

7) Glasgow Baillieston

8) Liverpool Riverside

9) Hackney South/Shoreditch

10) Bethnal Green and Bow

 

I'd make that 4 out of 10 of the most deprived areas being in Glasgow Considering that Scotland's population is 5 million and England's is 50 odd, I'd say thats an appalling disparity. No doubt you'll suggest we gas them all, because these STATISTICS don't fit with your perverse political ideology.

[deesidejambo]

• To govern well and in the interests of 5 million people of all races, colours and beliefs. All of them Scots.
  
• To give some positive vision now and over the next 2 years of how life might be if we step up to the plate and take more responsibility for governing ourselves in the future.
  
• To wait for Labour to conclude their long suicide note by jumping to electoral death in 2010.
  
• To pose the question if Scots wanted to be governed by a forthcoming Tory majority as they were for 18 years between 1979 and 1997.
  
• To offer them the alternative to govern themselves or to opt to live under Tory government for the next decade or two.
  

 

Simple enough

 

The reason they want to wait till 2010 is to give everyone a chance to see what they are like before deciding. This is perfectly sensible and should be supported. I still think the answer may be "No" but at least the SNP are giving the electorate a few years to monitor them before asking for a decision.

 

As for all that "bring it on" nonsense from Wendy Alexander - well that just shows how stupid Labour are. What a bunch of lightweight idiots. Bye bye you clowns.

[doctor jambo]

yes that is my point

 

Then it is a very lame, poor to understand point.

These "****" became so under the Union

They were failed under the UNion, and are being failed by the union

The union (aka Westminster) does not give a hoot about these people, as long as the money men keep making more green, and setting up lucrative directorships for themselves

The UK = London and the South East

Scotland could help these folks, but we cannot at present as we lack the power to do so

These WERE good people, and could be again- they just need help and their pride back, and London doesnt give a flying

[i8hibsh]

The scariest part is, as you have pointed out above, that the SNP get to set the question. Hopefully the public will see through it.

 

you would think so but there are some sheep out there

[cosanostra]

The reason they want to wait till 2010 is to give everyone a chance to see what they are like before deciding. This is perfectly sensible and should be supported. I still think the answer may be "No" but at least the SNP are giving the electorate a few years to monitor them before asking for a decision.

 

As for all that "bring it on" nonsense from Wendy Alexander - well that just shows how stupid Labour are. What a bunch of lightweight idiots. Bye bye you clowns.

 

I miss Wendy.

 

Her face looked like that of a giant cod and she was doing wonders for the SNP.

 

[i8hibsh]

Then it is a very lame, poor to understand point.

These "****" became so under the Union

They were failed under the UNion, and are being failed by the union

The union (aka Westminster) does not give a hoot about these people, as long as the money men keep making more green, and setting up lucrative directorships for themselves

The UK = London and the South East

Scotland could help these folks, but we cannot at present as we lack the power to do so

These WERE good people, and could be again- they just need help and their pride back, and London doesnt give a flying

 

Does the USA = Wall Street and Hollywood?

 

Just because the Uk like every country in the entire world has rich parts does not mean they are more favoured for **** sake!

[Fozzyonthefence]

I swear if the we ever get independence I will become a refugee abroad!

 

[deesidejambo]

I miss Wendy.

 

Her face looked like that of a giant cod and she was doing wonders for the SNP.

 

 

She reminds me of Cherie Blair after a night on the lash. Mouth like a pillar box.

[Drew Busby !]

The scariest part is, as you have pointed out above, that the SNP get to set the question. Hopefully the public will see through it.

 

Scottish independence ? or perhaps another decade - maybe even two - of Westminster Conservative rule ?

 

Carpe diem ... or mump and moan for the next 10 or 20 years about having to put up with Tory governance, something that the Scots have increasingly and bitterly consigned to the trash-can since the Tories last held significant domestic sway here almost 50 years ago ?

 

It's going to be an interesting test of the Scottish character as it faces up a choice that in reality it has always been democratically denied.

 

:D

[i8hibsh]

Can you provide quotes from the SNP which would support your first three "points" please?

 

Oh, and according to http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/1826411.stm

 

The 10 poorest British parliamentary constituencies

1) Glasgow Shettleston

2) Glasgow Springburn

3) Glasgow Maryhill

4) Birmingham Ladywood

5) Manchester Central

6) Camberwell and Peckham

7) Glasgow Baillieston

8) Liverpool Riverside

9) Hackney South/Shoreditch

10) Bethnal Green and Bow

 

I'd make that 4 out of 10 of the most deprived areas being in Glasgow Considering that Scotland's population is 5 million and England's is 50 odd, I'd say thats an appalling disparity. No doubt you'll suggest we gas them all, because these STATISTICS don't fit with your perverse political ideology.

 

 

Backs up my theory that the place is riddled with sc*m

 

And i was talking cities not constituencies

[Patrick Bateman]

Backs up my theory that the place is riddled with sc*m

 

So poor people = s**m? Are you joking?

 

And it totally blows a hole in your argument that 8/10 of the most deprived places in the UK were in England. You were simply talking nonsense. If anything, at least you're consistent.

 

Edit: You said areas, those are constituencies. Either way, you're wrong and not for the first, second, third or four time

[i8hibsh]

Scottish independence ? or perhaps another decade - maybe even two - of Westminster Conservative rule ?

 

Carpe diem ... or mump and moan for the next 10 or 20 years about having to put up with Tory governance, something that the Scots have increasingly and bitterly consigned to the trash-can since the Tories last held significant domestic sway here almost 50 years ago ?

 

It's going to be an interesting test of the Scottish character as it faces up a choice that in reality it has always been democratically denied.

 

:D

 

Freeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeedom!

[arfurdaley]

Scottish independence ? or perhaps another decade - maybe even two - of Westminster Conservative rule ?

 

Carpe diem ... or mump and moan for the next 10 or 20 years about having to put up with Tory governance, something that the Scots have increasingly and bitterly consigned to the trash-can since the Tories last held significant domestic sway here almost 50 years ago ?

 

It's going to be an interesting test of the Scottish character as it faces up a choice that in reality it has always been democratically denied.

 

:D

 

 

If they really believed that Scotland wanted independence they would have it before the next election, instead they will be giving us the choice of the 'lesser of two evils'

[Fozzyonthefence]

I know that fat vile cretin Salmond wants us to believ it is give give I assure you it is not

 

No way to speak about a fellow Jambo! And can't you make any mention of somebody from the SNP without some juvenile personal attack?

[doctor jambo]

The parents of these kids are trash - but taking the kids out of the slums they are taught to believe is all the can aspire to and showing them they can have better can turn it around.

 

They have no will to work and thus no pride in themselves.

 

Change these attitudes and the areas will change with them.

 

I don't know if you are a tory but your politics seem alligned with that. One of the fundamental beliefs underpinning conservatism is self-improvement, the belief that anyone can make themselves a better person through hard work.We need to make these people believe in that as well.

 

Sorry Borthers, he seems anti Tory to me

The work to improve yourself IS Tory/Conservative, and policies to enable this certainly cannot come from Labour

I8 would seem to suggest leaving people to stagnate on benefits wiht no help- surely the opposite of Conservative ideology?

[deesidejambo]

So poor people = s**m? Are you joking?

 

And it totally blows a hole in your argument that 8/10 of the most deprived places in the UK were in England. You were simply talking nonsense. If anything, at least you're consistent.

 

Are areas poor just because of the Gov't? Perhaps they have some part to play in their own circumstances. I think the culpability is both with Gov't and individual accountability.

[troonjambo]

Can you provide quotes from the SNP which would support your first three "points" please?

 

Oh, and according to http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/1826411.stm

 

The 10 poorest British parliamentary constituencies

1) Glasgow Shettleston

2) Glasgow Springburn

3) Glasgow Maryhill

 

 

 

7) Glasgow Baillieston

 

 

 

I'd make that 4 out of 10 of the most deprived areas being in Glasgow Considering that Scotland's population is 5 million and England's is 50 odd, I'd say thats an appalling disparity. No doubt you'll suggest we gas them all, because these STATISTICS don't fit with your perverse political ideology.

 

there are a barrel load of historical and geographical reasons for those 4 constituencys being termed poor not least the fact they are all a stones throw from the fabled glasgow west end where everyone in glasgow who is earning a bob or 2 instantly runs off to therefore slanting such statistics

 

must be said however living in the bailleston constituency personally makes me so proud to be brittish if this is poverty it proves this is the greatest county on earth que the music

[Cobblers]

Scottish independence ? or perhaps another decade - maybe even two - of Westminster Conservative rule ?

 

Carpe diem ... or mump and moan for the next 10 or 20 years about having to put up with Tory governance, something that the Scots have increasingly and bitterly consigned to the trash-can since the Tories last held significant domestic sway here almost 50 years ago ?

 

It's going to be an interesting test of the Scottish character as it faces up a choice that in reality it has always been democratically denied.

 

:D

 

Surely the irony in all this, is that if Scotland was to become independent it would effectively become run by the Scottish Labour party for evermore. I'm pretty sure a large number of SNP voters would stop voting for them once they had independence as I'm not clear what their purpose would be beyond that.

[cosanostra]

Sorry Borthers, he seems anti Tory to me

The work to improve yourself IS Tory/Conservative, and policies to enable this certainly cannot come from Labour

I8 would seem to suggest leaving people to stagnate on benefits wiht no help- surely the opposite of Conservative ideology?

 

That's surely more of a far, far right ideology.

 

I'm not calling you a Nazi by the way I8.

[Drew Busby !]

Backs up my theory that the place is riddled with sc*m

 

And i was talking cities not constituencies

 

How very "Radovan Karadzic" of you ! A hero of yours perhaps ? He also felt that entire populations and cities were expendable because they were filled with people he considered to be ****.

 

How much do you think you'll need to leave the country i8hibsh ? I'm willing to help with the finances :D

[Guest Dipped Flake]

what a fantastic result for the SNP and more importantly for Scotland. Thousands of traditonal labour supporters switched over to the SNP, probably the first time in their lives they have ever done that. The big problem the SNP have had is getting these labour supporters to actually think for themselves, rather than the old 'my dad and grandad voted for them so I will too' stuff. I still doubt that we will get an independence majority in the 2010 referendum but I hope and pray I am wrong.

[cosanostra]

there are a barrel load of historical and geographical reasons for those 4 constituencys being termed poor not least the fact they are all a stones throw from the fabled glasgow west end where everyone in glasgow who is earning a bob or 2 instantly runs off to therefore slanting such statistics

 

must be said however living in the bailleston constituency personally makes me so proud to be brittish if this is poverty it proves this is the greatest county on earth que the music

 

Take a walk through Haghill, Parkhead, Tollcross, Shettleston or Easterhouse and see if you still feel the same.

 

You are right about the west end, although have you noticed that loads of people seem to be moving to the southside lately? Property prices in the west end are still sky high I guess.

[doctor jambo]

Backs up my theory that the place is riddled with sc*m

 

And i was talking cities not constituencies

 

They have become ****

the union and lack of being able to formulate our own economic future has left large parts of our country destitute of ideas and hope, as well as cash

Ask how the Union policies have helped shipyards, fisheries, coal mining, heavy industry, farming

It is the areas that were rich in these things that are now full of, erm, ****.

Be under no mistake, had these industries had their centres in and around the south east they would still be thriving, and had the massive labour donors been involved in these things they would still be alive today

[Toggie88]

Well well well, the Independence train just gathers more and more steam.

 

I see I8hibsh has thrown his toys out the plan.

 

I've been in Glasgow East a hell of a lot recently, and when I see theslagging the place gets in the media and on here, it's very disheartening.

 

The place really isn't that bad. The folk of Glasgow East are just normal people. Some do have a lower standard of living but there is some really nice areas as well.

[Drew Busby !]

Surely the irony in all this, is that if Scotland was to become independent it would effectively become run by the Scottish Labour party for evermore. I'm pretty sure a large number of SNP voters would stop voting for them once they had independence as I'm not clear what their purpose would be beyond that.

 

I understand Cobblers. But at least we'll get the government we vote for rather than the one we didn't. The SNP may continue as a party but I would welcome a cleaned up Scottish Labour party who have to operate under a new reality and under the scrutiny of 5 million people who can hold them to account.

 

I agree that the SNP need not exist in any significant way post-independence. To me they're the vehicle, not the end-result.

[cosanostra]

I understand Cobblers. But at least we'll get the government we vote for rather than the one we didn't. The SNP may continue as a party but I would welcome a cleaned up Scottish Labour party who have to operate under a new reality and under the scrutiny of 5 million people who can hold them to account.

 

I agree that the SNP need not exist in any significant way post-independence. To me they're the vehicle, not the end-result.

 

Would be interesting to see what they did with their political stance, name etc if independence was achieved. The party encompasses a lot of different polititcal views at the moment. I heard Salmond describe himself as being a "slightly left of centre" politician once. Is that where they would settle after Scotland becaome independent?

[Boris]

Would be interesting to see what they did with their political stance, name etc if independence was achieved. The party encompasses a lot of different polititcal views at the moment. I heard Salmond describe himself as being a "slightly left of centre" politician once. Is that where they would settle after Scotland becaome independent?

 

SNP, Lib Dem, New Labour & Tory - there isn't really that much difference between them.

 

SNP & the Libs are probably more to the centre-left than the other two.

 

Can I just say that I think that a lot of people will vote for the SNP but not really want Independence, if that makes sense. It is as much a protest vote in my opinion.

 

Finally, my plan to save the Union would be to replicate the system that is teh Scottish Parliament in Wales, N.Ire and in regions of England.

 

Keep a slimmed down Westminster to oversee defence, foreign policy, general running of the economy (for example) and let the areas decide if free personal care for the elderly is what is wanted/needed in that area. Then there can be no petty jealousy re different status in Scotland to the rest of the UK that is used by nats & unionists alike.

[doctor jambo]

The SNP at present is a coalition of the willing

1- those who want labour out

2- those who favour independence

3- the anti Tories

4- the curious

 

Once independence is gained we can all go off on our own separate idealogical paths again

It is a vehicle of convenience

BUT people have taken a massive leap to stop voting labour, and once that barrier is down, labour are in big trouble

People will et used to actually using thier votes with thought and intent and seeing the results

Great for democracy and bad for labour

[Toggie88]

Post independence the SNP will continue as a Left of Centre, Social Democratic party. Of course many of our members will go to the left and some will go to the right. It will be very interesting as we could see all the traditional parties disappear and be replaced. I would envisage:

Centre Right Party (mostly made up of former Tories and Labour)

Centre Party (mostly made up of Lib Dems who can't decide anything)

Centre Left (Mostly former SNP and some Labour)

Socialist (SNP, Old Labour and SSP/Sol)

Greens

[billco98]

The facts are Labour sold its soul to Middle England in the form of New Labour by wearing some of the Tories clothes as a disguise in order to get elected. Middle England is naturally Tory ground - social democracy is anathema to them but they could accept small doses of it provided it didn't spoil their self centred standard of living. Now that the economic tide has turned they are desperate for a Tory government to protect their interests

 

After almost twenty years of neglect the strategic infrastructure of Britain was goosed. New Labour has invested billions in addressing the neglect but even so is far from completing the task. You can argue that the methods they chose to fund this were wrong but whatever people say it had to be done. Nobody likes bad medicine.

 

The Iraq War was an utterly disastrous decision by Blair (supported of course by the Tories but not of course by the SNP)

 

The SNP are a more Social Democratic Party that New Labour and are therefore seen as a more than adequate alternative.

 

Scotland is very much at an Historic crossroads. We can ditch the Union and leave England to ponder the thought of Tory Governments ad infinitum. If this happens, and I think there is now a big chance of that, then I shall feel sorry for those in England who need Social Democracy.

[Chip Douglas]

SNP, Lib Dem, New Labour & Tory - there isn't really that much difference between them.

 

SNP & the Libs are probably more to the centre-left than the other two.

 

Can I just say that I think that a lot of people will vote for the SNP but not really want Independence, if that makes sense. It is as much a protest vote in my opinion.

 

Finally, my plan to save the Union would be to replicate the system that is teh Scottish Parliament in Wales, N.Ire and in regions of England.

 

Keep a slimmed down Westminster to oversee defence, foreign policy, general running of the economy (for example) and let the areas decide if free personal care for the elderly is what is wanted/needed in that area. Then there can be no petty jealousy re different status in Scotland to the rest of the UK that is used by nats & unionists alike.

 

I agree that a significant proportion of the SNP vote last night may have been in protest. But for those who voted in protest rather than a vote per se for independence are adopting a risky strategy.

 

That kind of swing, on the face of it, is a huge step in the right direction for a referendum, which I am whole heartedly in support of.

 

Give Scotland the opportunity to vote on its own affairs, it's a simple concept and one which is rapidly gaining favour with our population notwithstanding the protest voters.

[doctor jambo]

Post independence the SNP will continue as a Left of Centre, Social Democratic party. Of course many of our members will go to the left and some will go to the right. It will be very interesting as we could see all the traditional parties disappear and be replaced. I would envisage:

Centre Right Party (mostly made up of former Tories and Labour)

Centre Party (mostly made up of Lib Dems who can't decide anything)

Centre Left (Mostly former SNP and some Labour)

Socialist (SNP, Old Labour and SSP/Sol)

Greens

 

If this is your idea of SNP then they will be sunk waaaaaay before any referendum

The socialists are just as cracked as the BNP

POst independence the SNP will revert to being a fringe minority once more, once their purpose is served

But they go that way with my thanks

I have yet to see them pass anything resembling socialist policy