Wrap up third - Season has been a success

[Fozzyonthefence]

15 minutes ago, gordon simpson said:

3rd every time and  Europe 

Winning the cup gets Europe and guaranteed group stages at the moment as well as a massive party and open top bus parade.  
 

4th gets Europe too and 5th normally does too.  But like finishing 3rd they’re pretty boring in comparison to winning a cup.

[Bad Religion]

6 minutes ago, Go for it 1308 said:

....as Robbie once said...."A money spinner". Jesus wept

You can still sense the negatively of the Levein/Neilson years in our performances this season. Hopefully it’s fully eradicated this summer. 

[Sir PH]

40 minutes ago, gordon simpson said:

3rd every time and  Europe 

Above winning trophies, the actual pinnacle of football? 

[jr ewing]

Silverware = legendary status 

[fabienleclerq]

3 hours ago, Polonia Gorgie said:

Well for me and I imagine the board would have set out to finish third or higher and win silverware!! Winning cups is how you show your success as a sports club. I don't want to come across as slating Hearts because I've enjoyed this season. Now I do agree with your paragraph regarding we've been to Hampden more than ever these past few seasons, it's been consistent aye but not successful!! Beating Celtic twice in a season isn't a bloody big success!! Unless it's once in the league cup final and another in the Scottish cup!!

 

Do you mean it's been successful in a monetary kind of way? 

 

So I doubt the club are setting targets of third and above and win a trophy, that's something I've seen very little of in nearly 40 years.

 

The cups we will have a target of getting to the latter stages, we've done that twice. Winning it would require a huge slice of luck and beating both OF on route is a tough ask. 

 

Third place is realistically our ceiling atm, we don't finish third consistently ever.

 

So I'd say our board would be saying third is what we expect but fourths no a disaster. 

 

Beating Celtic home and away is a success, granted its not a trophy but its progress. And monetary wise its almost as successful as it can be.

 

Have Aston Villa had a successful season? St mirren or Dundee?

There's various measurements. Hearts fans saying only above third or a trophy is success to me is probably expecting a lot.

[Polonia Gorgie]

41 minutes ago, fabienleclerq said:

 

So I doubt the club are setting targets of third and above and win a trophy, that's something I've seen very little of in nearly 40 years.

 

The cups we will have a target of getting to the latter stages, we've done that twice. Winning it would require a huge slice of luck and beating both OF on route is a tough ask. 

 

Third place is realistically our ceiling atm, we don't finish third consistently ever.

 

So I'd say our board would be saying third is what we expect but fourths no a disaster. 

 

Beating Celtic home and away is a success, granted its not a trophy but its progress. And monetary wise its almost as successful as it can be.

 

Have Aston Villa had a successful season? St mirren or Dundee?

There's various measurements. Hearts fans saying only above third or a trophy is success to me is probably expecting a lot.

It was only last season that the club thought that fourth was a disaster and sacked the manager.

 

As for beating Celtic home and away, it's not success. It's progress, I completely agree, as is our away form this season. It's great progress.

 

Have Aston Villa had a successful season? Absolutely not. Aston Villa have won the European Cup!! That's success, they are having an excellent season. St Mirren won the League cup in 2013, so again..... St Mirren are having a good season 

[Section Q]

Getting to two semis and third place, and banking the moolah from being in Europe next year isn't a bad effort from a young coach still studying for his senior coaching badge. I hope Naisy gets an extension to his contract before we kick off next season.

[gordon simpson]

3 hours ago, Sir PH said:

Above winning trophies, the actual pinnacle of football? 

no but the poster said winning the cup every 5 year and being 4th to 8th in between  ,which would mean very unlikely to win cup every 5 year  if no european games .

So like many posters on kickback he has spouted utter shite .

[Bazzas right boot]

This will be a successful season, if  we'd won the cup it would have been more successful. 

It's not rocket surgery. 

 

 

No idea why I or others engage the randoms trying to shite all over this season and our clubs history.

 

 

[Bad Religion]

6 hours ago, Bazzas right boot said:

This will be a successful season, if  we'd won the cup it would have been more successful. 

It's not rocket surgery. 

 

 

No idea why I or others engage the randoms trying to shite all over this season and our clubs history.

 

 

I’m not sure these randoms appreciate how important you are on here, Tosh. 

[Sir PH]

1 minute ago, Bad Religion said:

I’m not sure these randoms appreciate how important you are on here, Tosh. 

😂👏😂👏

[spirt of 98]

Why are some Hearts fans expecting we win a cup. 
 

I am nearly 50 and have seen us win 3 cups in my life. 
 

Some folk need to get real. It’s amazing when we win a cup but come on if your only here for the cup wins your following the wrong team.

 

 

[Boris]

7 hours ago, Bazzas right boot said:

This will be a successful season, if  we'd won the cup it would have been more successful. 

It's not rocket surgery. 

 

 

No idea why I or others engage the randoms trying to shite all over this season and our clubs history.

 

 

Is rocket surgery like brain science?

 

That aside, finish third, made the semi final of both cups reads as a good season.

 

I guess any grumblings are caused by frustration at being unable to overcome an extremely average Rangers side in both cups.

[Sir PH]

29 minutes ago, spirt of 98 said:

Why are some Hearts fans expecting we win a cup. 
 

I am nearly 50 and have seen us win 3 cups in my life. 
 

Some folk need to get real. It’s amazing when we win a cup but come on if your only here for the cup wins your following the wrong team.

 

 

Why shouldn't we expect to win a cup more often than we do? 

[Sydney]

35 minutes ago, Sir PH said:

Why shouldn't we expect to win a cup more often than we do? 

Expectations about Hearts range across a wide spectrum from "we'll win every match" to "we'll lose every match". 

 

I think most of us are probably somewhere in the middle for expectations, but I think that most of us HOPE to win something every year.  I certainly expect us to get to semi finals every season, but I don't expect us to win both cups every season.  My expectation is tempered by 50 years of Hearts generally failing to win cups.

 

I expect us to be in the top six every season.  I hope to be in the top three.  I don't really think about winning the league.

 

I expect to not lose to Hibs.

 

Everyone is different though.

[chrystaf]

26 minutes ago, Sydney said:

Expectations about Hearts range across a wide spectrum from "we'll win every match" to "we'll lose every match". 

 

I think most of us are probably somewhere in the middle for expectations, but I think that most of us HOPE to win something every year.  I certainly expect us to get to semi finals every season, but I don't expect us to win both cups every season.  My expectation is tempered by 50 years of Hearts generally failing to win cups.

 

I expect us to be in the top six every season.  I hope to be in the top three.  I don't really think about winning the league.

 

I expect to not lose to Hibs.

 

Everyone is different though.

That about sums it up IMO.

[Cruickie's Moustache]

If we are best of the rest then year on year we enter the cups at the later stages.

 

To win the league cup thats 4 games.

Scottish Cup 5 games.

 

As discussed elsewhere they can be a lottery across those 9 games. So we just need to keep plugging away.

 

Brian Clough always put winniing the league as his priority over all the cups, including Europe,  as that was the marker of how both team and manager developed, performed etc etc.

 

Yes silverware is nice but at present with the current GFA set up, for us, coming third and closing the gap, will be the equivalent of a league winning season.

 

 

[Sooks]

2 minutes ago, Cruickie's Moustache said:

If we are best of the rest then year on year we enter the cups at the later stages.

 

To win the league cup thats 4 games.

Scottish Cup 5 games.

 

As discussed elsewhere they can be a lottery across those 9 games. So we just need to keep plugging away.

 

Brian Clough always put winniing the league as his priority over all the cups, including Europe,  as that was the marker of how both team and manager developed, performed etc etc.

 

Yes silverware is nice but at present with the current GFA set up, for us, coming third and closing the gap, will be the equivalent of a league winning season.

 

 

Thos is how I see it 

[AC Mallin_51]

Winning silverware > Europe every time for me. Even if it’s the league cup. But getting group stage euro football, the money that comes with it, can help push us on to win silverware. If we talk about taking the next steps then consistently qualifying for Europe and putting light between oursleves and Aberdeen/Hibs etc is an important next step 

[fabienleclerq]

13 hours ago, Polonia Gorgie said:

It was only last season that the club thought that fourth was a disaster and sacked the manager.

 

As for beating Celtic home and away, it's not success. It's progress, I completely agree, as is our away form this season. It's great progress.

 

Have Aston Villa had a successful season? Absolutely not. Aston Villa have won the European Cup!! That's success, they are having an excellent season. St Mirren won the League cup in 2013, so again..... St Mirren are having a good season 

 

I think there was more to it than finishing fourth.

 

St mirren have back to back top six finishes ask their fans if this season has been a success. 

 

Obviously your only measurement for success is trophies, which is fine. I disagree, we can still have a successful season and not win a trophy. 

[Sir PH]

1 minute ago, fabienleclerq said:

 

I think there was more to it than finishing fourth.

 

St mirren have back to back top six finishes ask their fans if this season has been a success. 

 

Obviously your only measurement for success is trophies, which is fine. I disagree, we can still have a successful season and not win a trophy. 

St Mirren and ourselves should have different goals and targets, given the difference in size of the two clubs. 

[Sooks]

28 minutes ago, Sir PH said:

St Mirren and ourselves should have different goals and targets, given the difference in size of the two clubs. 

Definitely agree with that . Likewise the same applies to the old firm and us . Sadly we are closer in size to St Mirren than we are Rangers nowadays 

[Sir PH]

Just now, Sooks said:

Definitely agree with that . Likewise the same applies to the old firm and us . Sadly we are closer in size to St Mirren than we are Rangers nowadays 

Yes, the Old Firm aim for the league every year and we should be aiming for the cups. 

[Sooks]

2 minutes ago, Sir PH said:

Yes, the Old Firm aim for the league every year and we should be aiming for the cups. 

And what if we meet them in the cup 

[Sir PH]

3 minutes ago, Sooks said:

And what if we meet them in the cup 

Try and win the game by having a proper go at them and getting a bit of luck. 

[Sooks]

8 minutes ago, Sir PH said:

Try and win the game by having a proper go at them and getting a bit of luck. 

Do the records show that we have had more success against them by having a go , or by having a more cagey plan 
 

You cant guarantee luck 

 

The idea that the fan base would be totally fine if we got hammered but “ had a go “ is delusional imo 

[Sir PH]

6 minutes ago, Sooks said:

Do the records show that we have had more success against them by having a go , or by having a more cagey plan 
 

You cant guarantee luck 

 

The idea that the fan base would be totally fine if we got hammered but “ had a go “ is delusional imo 

The 2020 final v Celtic we sat back and were 2-0 down in no time. Neilson realised there was only one thing for it, released the handbrake and went for it. 

[Sooks]

12 minutes ago, Sir PH said:

The 2020 final v Celtic we sat back and were 2-0 down in no time. Neilson realised there was only one thing for it, released the handbrake and went for it. 

Glad we have that trophy in our record books and Neilson is now known as the brave and successful manager he is then . Imagine the alternative 

[Debut 4]

11 minutes ago, Sooks said:

Do the records show that we have had more success against them by having a go , or by having a more cagey plan 
 

You cant guarantee luck 

 

The idea that the fan base would be totally fine if we got hammered but “ had a go “ is delusional imo 

I think it’s more to do with the ethos a team is built on and has been the principal characteristic harnessed over a season or seasons.  
 

The old firm will always push you back no matter how positive you are, the 1998 Final is an example, but what counts in those periods is the resilience of your team and their fight to still look for those moments they can get the ball and hurt the opposition.  
 

Of course, you need the players but that’s what struck me about Hearts then.  
 

We had players with the minerals who wanted to take their game to them.  

[Sooks]

2 minutes ago, Debut 4 said:

I think it’s more to do with the ethos a team is built on and has been the principal characteristic harnessed over a season or seasons.  
 

The old firm will always push you back no matter how positive you are, the 1998 Final is an example, but what counts in those periods is the resilience of your team and their fight to still look for those moments they can get the ball and hurt the opposition.  
 

Of course, you need the players but that’s what struck me about Hearts then.  
 

We had players with the minerals who wanted to take their game to them.  

I remember standing on the steep slopes of the old Parkhead when Preston scored vs Rangers in the semi . I did not feel any better that day than I did on Sunday , despite the fact we maybe had a bit more of a go 

[Sooks]

Winning is the most important thing in a cup game . If a manager succeeds through a low block or a cagey game , then I will be far happier than if we lose while having a go 

[Sir PH]

21 minutes ago, Sooks said:

Glad we have that trophy in our record books and Neilson is now known as the brave and successful manager he is then . Imagine the alternative 

We don't have the trophy in our record books. We lost on penalties. 

[Sooks]

46 minutes ago, Sir PH said:

We don't have the trophy in our record books. We lost on penalties. 

Yeah I know 

[Stone1992]

2 hours ago, Sir PH said:

St Mirren and ourselves should have different goals and targets, given the difference in size of the two clubs. 

 

We do. Thats why consecutive top six finishes are a success for St Mirren.

[Debut 4]

1 hour ago, Sooks said:

Winning is the most important thing in a cup game . If a manager succeeds through a low block or a cagey game , then I will be far happier than if we lose while having a go 

But I think the point is habitually being able to play better v the old firm draws confidence out the fans and club itself. 
 

Like getting in a defeatist habit means people start to have less expectancy.  
 

Our record v them in comparison to now was good back then, or at least better. 

[JimmyCant]

7 hours ago, Sir PH said:

Why shouldn't we expect to win a cup more often than we do? 

Because at the start of every cup competition there are 2 hugely resourced clubs who are almost always better than us and they BOTH have to lose in the course of 4-5 rounds, whether that’s losing to us or someone else it’s essential. It’s not going to happen very often. The fact that it happened 3 times in 14 years and we beat everyone else put in front of us, is actually quite remarkable.

[Sooks]

5 minutes ago, Debut 4 said:

But I think the point is habitually being able to play better v the old firm draws confidence out the fans and club itself. 
 

Like getting in a defeatist habit means people start to have less expectancy.  
 

Our record v them in comparison to now was good back then, or at least better. 

Fan expectancy does not equal achievement though mate 

 

I have seen us win a single trophy each decade of my teens , twenties and thirties . I have five years left of my forties to keep that run going . It is not particularly inspiring , but far better than the experiences of the fans of 90 % of clubs . I wish it was more , of course I do , but I recognise the barriers to that 

[Haken]

In terms of the league, we should be aiming for third while looking to make the most of any opportuities that present themselves that might make a higher position achievable.

 

In Cups, it really just boils down to the stage you meet either of the 2 uglies.  So I guess the target for me there is that we should be aiming to not be put out the cups by anyone other than either of those 2, and that when we do get them, we realise it's a one off game and have a proper go at them.

[Go for it 1308]

2 hours ago, Sooks said:

Do the records show that we have had more success against them by having a go , or by having a more cagey plan 
 

You cant guarantee luck 

 

The idea that the fan base would be totally fine if we got hammered but “ had a go “ is delusional imo 

Ffs , it's a game of football! Of course you have a go at them. That shitty rangers team was there for the taking.  We all knew before the game that they were on a run of playing shite. So, have a f*****g go at them ! What's delusional about that???

[Watt-Zeefuik]

20 hours ago, Bazzas right boot said:

 

Reaching 2x sf ( 2 exits to rangers) and being 3rd doesn't deserve criticism. 

 

It will receive disappointment and spark debate about how to improve,  but it doesn't deserve criticism. 

It's not warranted.

 

We will lose games, we won't win every game and when that happens unwarranted rage and criticism will be responded to by the few who aren't emotional basket cases.

 

Said poster you replied to thinks 3rd place isn't successful and has went in the huff about 60 years of underachievement. He's done well tho, he's still going across multiple threads.

Not very resilient, and pretty silly reaction to  a sf defeat to a better and bigger team, no?

 

Happy clappers could also be classed as supporters, it's the very definition.

Some moan, greet and get in a rage after a defeat, some look at the bigger picture, remain logical,  mature and ehh support the team.

 

Ironically most posters having the biggest meltdown predicted before the game we'd get beat.

 

Said poster also loves to slate Hearts but will go absolutely bananas if you criticize another particular Scottish club.

[Watt-Zeefuik]

1 minute ago, Go for it 1308 said:

Ffs , it's a game of football! Of course you have a go at them. That shitty rangers team was there for the taking.  We all knew before the game that they were on a run of playing shite. So, have a f*****g go at them ! What's delusional about that???

 

Some day someone will define for me WTF "having a go" means to folk on here. We didn't sit in on Sunday, we didn't park the bus, we didn't play for a draw. We had attacking players pushed forward and had at least 5 good opportunities that we squandered with poor decision making. We were aggressive and attack-minded at multiple points, we just didn't manage to score.

 

So if we make the wrong pass consistently we haven't "had a go?"

[CaptainShanks]

34 minutes ago, Stone1992 said:

 

We do. Thats why consecutive top six finishes are a success for St Mirren.

St Mirren seem to have a lot of potential which hasn't been realised. Near on sell out at the game a few weeks ago there. Sure it worked out over 6000 home fans and are well up in terms of attendances the last couple of years which saw them them reduced the OF allocation. On that basis top 6 should become a more regular thing for them.

 

They may come to regret only building an 8k stadium.

[Sooks]

11 minutes ago, Go for it 1308 said:

Ffs , it's a game of football! Of course you have a go at them. That shitty rangers team was there for the taking.  We all knew before the game that they were on a run of playing shite. So, have a f*****g go at them ! What's delusional about that???

No idea what is delusional about what you described

 

What is delusional is expecting us to beat either of them regularly , or discounting the fact that there might just be a better chance of lifting the trophy by not charging at them baws oot like a mental case 

[Sir PH]

38 minutes ago, JimmyCant said:

Because at the start of every cup competition there are 2 hugely resourced clubs who are almost always better than us and they BOTH have to lose in the course of 4-5 rounds, whether that’s losing to us or someone else it’s essential. It’s not going to happen very often. The fact that it happened 3 times in 14 years and we beat everyone else put in front of us, is actually quite remarkable.

It's nor. There's been periods in history where they've had very ordinary teams, and we still couldn't capitalise. Also, they've both been knocked out of cups and guess what? We still managed to find a way not to win. You're going on as if we're up against Real Madrid and Barcelona every season, we're not.

[fabienleclerq]

3 hours ago, Sir PH said:

St Mirren and ourselves should have different goals and targets, given the difference in size of the two clubs. 

We do have different targets.

 

Hence consecutive top sixes being a success for them. Us finishing third and two semi finals is success for us.

 

Hearts have three trophies in my lifetime, not a great haul. If that's your measurement of success then fine but we'd be sacking a lot of managers. 

[Go for it 1308]

1 hour ago, Sooks said:

No idea what is delusional about what you described

 

What is delusional is expecting us to beat either of them regularly , or discounting the fact that there might just be a better chance of lifting the trophy by not charging at them baws oot like a mental case 

Nah mate ....you're wrong. They're not some mythical superpower that can never be beaten. Aberdeen beat them on a regular basis (against all odds). when fergie  was in charge . He instilled in his team a winning mindset when it came to playing the OF. And it worked 

[Sooks]

47 minutes ago, Go for it 1308 said:

Nah mate ....you're wrong. They're not some mythical superpower that can never be beaten. Aberdeen beat them on a regular basis (against all odds). when fergie  was in charge . He instilled in his team a winning mindset when it came to playing the OF. And it worked 

It was a totally different universe back then . Murray and then Bosman and McCann + SKY Sports changed everything 

[Polonia Gorgie]

1 hour ago, Sooks said:

No idea what is delusional about what you described

 

What is delusional is expecting us to beat either of them regularly , or discounting the fact that there might just be a better chance of lifting the trophy by not charging at them baws oot like a mental case 

Sooks mate, before the semi final you were on one thread wanting fans to put there hand in their pocket to buy a ticket, said we should all be there selling it out like a big club, I'm probably paraphrasing but to that point, on this thread your calling us delusional for wanting to beat the old firm more regularly!! It's not delusional wanting to see success!! Hibs have won the cup more recently than we have ffs!! 

[Sooks]

10 minutes ago, Polonia Gorgie said:

Sooks mate, before the semi final you were on one thread wanting fans to put there hand in their pocket to buy a ticket, said we should all be there selling it out like a big club, I'm probably paraphrasing but to that point, on this thread your calling us delusional for wanting to beat the old firm more regularly!! It's not delusional wanting to see success!! Hibs have won the cup more recently than we have ffs!! 

I think I only ever said if you are able let’s all do it mate . I have a bit of an issue that may stop me buying a season ticket this season actually . I do not judge fans for being unable to attend . Sorry if it came across that way , and even more sorry if I actually said exactly that  

[Bazzas right boot]

2 hours ago, Watt-Zeefuik said:

 

Said poster also loves to slate Hearts but will go absolutely bananas if you criticize another particular Scottish club.

 

Aye.

 

Extreme lengths to slate Hearts and our history, but won't allow a bad word go unchallenged about another club.

 

Amazing