Tagawa ?.

[grumpyespana]

I thought yesterday that we would have brought on Tagawa on for the last twenty minutes to use his pace against saints tiring defenders, it must mean reading between the lines that he is not in our plans for next season and that he will be away.

[OTT]

Looks like it, this seasons Kio 😕 

[Jim_Duncan]

At least he had his 20 minutes against Rosenborg.

 

The song, that is. Not his play.

[innerjambo]

It's disappointing tbf. I thought he showed glimpses of potential in his earlier cameos. 

[Threedoorsdown]

I actually see signings like Kip and Tagawa as a sign of how far we have came in recruitment. I think it’s fair to say both of these signings haven’t quite worked.

 

However, the difference is I think we can all see they aren’t completely hopeless, it just hasn’t worked. 
 

As a result, we are seeing interest in our ‘deadwood’ and may even be able to turn small profits. Compare this to yesteryear when we were stuck with guys like Damour that we couldn’t get rid of. 

[jr ewing]

Time's up ⏰️ 

[Diadora Van Basten]

Got to feel a bit sorry for him not to get on yesterday.

[joondalupjambo]

Could be that he either cannot settle into the country or the style of play or a bit of both.  Naisy might be playing him because a deal has already been done and we do not want the player injured.

[Fort Vallance]

That last 20 minutes was crying out for a fully fit Oda. I don't think it would have been a game for Tagawa anyway. 

[hearts00]

Agreed, looks pretty much over for Tagawa. I was actually more surprised Oda didn’t come on. Oda might suffer from Barrie McKay being first off the bench now. 
 

While it’s great having McKay back, I do like Oda getting 25 mins at the end of matches with his blistering pace. 

[Chaps]

Yesterday showed how much Naismith rates him.

 

Bringing Scott Fraser on instead to stick up front.

[jr ewing]

Can't be showing anything in training either. 

[wavydavy]

46 minutes ago, joondalupjambo said:

Could be that he either cannot settle into the country or the style of play or a bit of both.  Naisy might be playing him because a deal has already been done and we do not want the player injured.

 

Why have him on the bench then?

Edited April 7 by wavydavy

[joondalupjambo]

1 minute ago, wavydavy said:

 

Why have him on the bench then?

Numbers?  Keep him involved?  Just in case of emergency?  No idea but he is not getting on at all so all a bit of a conundrum.  Perhaps we are keeping him fit, and on a tight leash to spring him in the semi😀

[kingantti1874]

He’s very obviously not going to get an opportunity.  Hopefully he can move on which I think would be best for all 

[Gordons left glove]

He'll be off to Japan in the summer. Feel sorry for the guy

[kingantti1874]

2 minutes ago, Gordons left glove said:

He'll be off to Japan in the summer. Feel sorry for the guy

 To a degree. He’s got decent pedigree and experience in some decent leagues.

 

when he’s had opportunities he’s not taken them.  Scottish football should have been a scoosh for him 

[Gordons left glove]

32 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

 To a degree. He’s got decent pedigree and experience in some decent leagues.

 

when he’s had opportunities he’s not taken them.  Scottish football should have been a scoosh for him 

Fair. Failure to take chances against teams like spartans will get you nowhere at this level. I get that his style is playing on the shoulder and trying to get in behind defences but not every team is going to be so open as say Partick thistle where he did score. Need to adapt.

[Homme]

Some signings just don't work out. Hopefully we can recoup some fee for him like we did Kio.

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

 

If he was any use he would be playing, just not happened

[JTJ]

I think our substitutions had to be governed by St Mirren's changes as they made 4 attacking changes, largely leaving Gogic v Vargas at the back.

 

We'd already switched to three at the back and Tagawa hasn't shown yet he can hold up the ball as an only forward. The only change to involve him would have to have been for Vargas which would have been very unfair on Vargas, and would just not have worked. Fraser came on for Forrest to help shore up the midfield. He did try to support Vargas.

 

I have my doubts on Tagawa but it's more likely he'll be involved against Livy.  Once third is confirmed he should get a couple of games too.

[busbyfth]

1 minute ago, JTJ said:

I think our substitutions had to be governed by St Mirren's changes as they made 4 attacking changes, largely leaving Gogic v Vargas at the back.

 

We'd already switched to three at the back and Tagawa hasn't shown yet he can hold up the ball as an only forward. The only change to involve him would have to have been for Vargas which would have been very unfair on Vargas, and would just not have worked. Fraser came on for Forrest to help shore up the midfield. He did try to support Vargas.

 

I have my doubts on Tagawa but it's more likely he'll be involved against Livy.  Once third is confirmed he should get a couple of games too.

re Vargas - note his chest control and first touch, when we got the penalty.....he's shown that before - potentially great signing 

[CostaJambo]

Could've been so different if he had scored that chance when he had just come on for his debut against St. Johnstone away and gotten off to a flyer.

[Mikey1874]

We were trying to keep it tight and Vargas was playing very well. 

 

Other chances to come.

[kingantti1874]

54 minutes ago, Gordons left glove said:

Fair. Failure to take chances against teams like spartans will get you nowhere at this level. I get that his style is playing on the shoulder and trying to get in behind defences but not every team is going to be so open as say Partick thistle where he did score. Need to adapt.

Yup.  The reality is we dominate possession most weeks and teams sit in and stay compact. There simply isn’t a lot of room to play on the shoulder.

 

He needs to offer more than that.  I hate to compare but look at Kyogo. Adapted his game to play here

Edited April 7 by kingantti1874

[wavydavy]

1 hour ago, Gordons left glove said:

He'll be off to Japan in the summer. Feel sorry for the guy

 

Or maybe back to Portugal.

[Fraggle]

Think he might be a player for next season, given Naismiths comments a couple of months back.

 

Though suspect it's more likely to do with him not settling in Scotland,and he'll be away when the window reopens.

 

[Ex member of the SaS]

Tagawa's name should be the first on the team sheet.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

But I doubt Bonnyrigg rose can afford him.

[DesertDawg]

1 hour ago, JTJ said:

I think our substitutions had to be governed by St Mirren's changes as they made 4 attacking changes, largely leaving Gogic v Vargas at the back.

 

We'd already switched to three at the back and Tagawa hasn't shown yet he can hold up the ball as an only forward. The only change to involve him would have to have been for Vargas which would have been very unfair on Vargas, and would just not have worked. Fraser came on for Forrest to help shore up the midfield. He did try to support Vargas.

 

I have my doubts on Tagawa but it's more likely he'll be involved against Livy.  Once third is confirmed he should get a couple of games too.

 

Exactly how I saw the Fraser sub.  In the dreadful windy conditions, managing the game out to a 2-1 was the objective.  If we had been down 1-2 Tagawa might have been preferred.

[Benny Klack]

Whilst he’s clearly been a big disappointment so far I’d be very surprised to see him emptied in the summer. Suspect he’ll be given pre-season and included in the squad for next year. 

[mellors1874]

Defo a player there and I think he will come good next season.

Wouldn't be the first player to have a slow start and become a mainstay in the team.

 

[19/05/2012]

I would start him against Livi next week got to start giving him and Tait minutes between now and the end of the season to see what they are like. Would also give a young right back a chance 

[Taffin]

His confidence must be absolute rock bottom. Feel for the guy.

[liam11]

The guy has never really had a proper chance imo. Yes he’s had a couple moments (big chance against Celtic recently comes to mind) but he’s never going to be in ahead of Shanks.

 

Wonder if we can get a proper look at him post split when 3rd is confirmed 

[Polonia Gorgie]

9 minutes ago, liam11 said:

The guy has never really had a proper chance imo. Yes he’s had a couple moments (big chance against Celtic recently comes to mind) but he’s never going to be in ahead of Shanks.

 

Wonder if we can get a proper look at him post split when 3rd is confirmed 

Playing him post split is a good shout, can play the best opponents in the league with not as much pressure. Might be worth while promoting a right back for the remainder of the season too.

[RS86]

2 hours ago, Polonia Gorgie said:

Might be worth while promoting a right back for the remainder of the season too.

Or giving Natty a run of games. He was starting to perform much better earlier in the season after a few consecutive games, which shows he is capable. But hasn't recaptured that form since.

[Bongo 1874]

My Guy haven't given up on him yet.

[johnking123]

Off to Portugal again in the summer 

[colinmaroon]

3 hours ago, 19/05/2012 said:

I would start him against Livi next week got to start giving him and Tait minutes between now and the end of the season to see what they are like. Would also give a young right back a chance 

 

Tagaw's strength is supposed to be running the channels and getting in behind.  Not much chance v Livi.  Ten men on the edge of their box.

[Baxfee]

I wonder who wanted him signed? Never really been a hearts type player.  Naisy obviously doesn’t rate him so probably best if he goes 

[karipidis]

8 hours ago, Threedoorsdown said:

I actually see signings like Kip and Tagawa as a sign of how far we have came in recruitment. I think it’s fair to say both of these signings haven’t quite worked.

 

However, the difference is I think we can all see they aren’t completely hopeless, it just hasn’t worked. 
 

As a result, we are seeing interest in our ‘deadwood’ and may even be able to turn small profits. Compare this to yesteryear when we were stuck with guys like Damour that we couldn’t get rid of. 

Very good points.

[jbee647]

Tagawa always seems to have a problem with concentration during matches, games constantly pass him by, will be gone as soon as we get someone to take him off our hands, appears to be totally unsuited to Scottish football, he’s been given plenty chances and done absolutely nothing to merit sticking with him.

People have already written off Scott Fraser but I’d argue he has more chance of being a Hearts player than Tagawa, and Fraser has little to no chance 

[JamboAl]

9 hours ago, Threedoorsdown said:

I actually see signings like Kip and Tagawa as a sign of how far we have came in recruitment. I think it’s fair to say both of these signings haven’t quite worked.

 

However, the difference is I think we can all see they aren’t completely hopeless, it just hasn’t worked. 
 

As a result, we are seeing interest in our ‘deadwood’ and may even be able to turn small profits. Compare this to yesteryear when we were stuck with guys like Damour that we couldn’t get rid of. 

Not a very good comparison.

We had Damour during the covid period with low/no gate money as did other clubs and there was not much money sloshing about anywhere.

[Threedoorsdown]

8 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

Not a very good comparison.

We had Damour during the covid period with low/no gate money as did other clubs and there was not much money sloshing about anywhere.

We literally couldn’t give him away. 

[Chaps]

1 hour ago, johnking123 said:

Off to Portugal again in the summer 

Loan or permanent?

[BackOfTheNet]

Can’t see him staying at all. Have to trust the manager, after all we got a win which takes our away wins tally to a record number for 32 years, but it was odd given we only have two fit strikers that when one was ill the other didn’t start. And then didn’t even get used as one of the 5 subs.

 

Obviously we haven’t seen him in training, but his career to date shows the level we play at shouldn’t be beneath him. Guys from the English Conference leagues can thrive in the Scottish Premiership, so I’m certain a guy that’s not just played for Japan but also in the Portuguese top flight and scored against the likes of Sporting and Porto is of good enough pedigree. So I’m not sure if it’s down to culture adjustment, language or says more about how we play or even more about the style of our league, I dunno.

 

Just wish we could have a chance to judge for ourselves. Oda barely got a chance under Neilson and looked destined to be a flop, but some of us could see glimpses to know he should be given a run. Neilson got sacked and then Oda went on to be one of our better performers as the season ended.

 

Guy has had 554 minutes of football for us. That’s the equivalent of just over 6 games. He’s never had a full 90 minutes. There’s been 42 games across all competitions so far for us this season, he’s missed 8 through injury, 1 game he hadn’t signed in time for and 1 where he just wasn’t picked for the squad. Out of the other 32 he’s been on the bench and not come on 16 times. Out of the 16 he has been on the pitch, he’s only started 4 of them. The most time he’s had in one game is 68 minutes in the first game against Kilmarnock at Tynecastle which finished 0-0. Least amount of time he’s had on the pitch is the last 3 minutes against PAOK at home. Average game time for his 16 games played is under 35 minutes.

 

His 4 starts:

 

- Kilmarnock (H) - 0-0 (68 mins)

- Rangers (H) - 0-1 (65 mins)

- Ross County (H) - 2-2 (45 mins)

- Spartans (A) - 2-1 (59 mins)

 

Since he’s a player that can get in behind high lines and run channels, I can’t see home games against Killie and County being those sorts of games. Spartans away most definitely wasn’t. Rangers at home makes sense, but it’s Rangers at the end of the day. I just don’t really see him as been given as much as a shot as you’d think he’d have. I know Shankland plays 90 minutes as talisman and captain, so that automatically reduces game time. But yesterday should have been the opportunity and it wasn’t given. So I just can’t see why he’d be kept if we are not going to play a style that suits him or just not play him at all.

Edited April 7 by BackOfTheNet

[Jambo92]

It's hard as he's not getting much time but when he does come on, it's like he's invisible or getting in the way of play.  I don't think it's a matter of adapting to the game, just think he doesn't fit in our team.

[Carter]

1 hour ago, BackOfTheNet said:

Can’t see him staying at all. Have to trust the manager, after all we got a win which takes our away wins tally to a record number for 32 years, but it was odd given we only have two fit strikers that when one was ill the other didn’t start. And then didn’t even get used as one of the 5 subs.

 

Obviously we haven’t seen him in training, but his career to date shows the level we play at shouldn’t be beneath him. Guys from the English Conference leagues can thrive in the Scottish Premiership, so I’m certain a guy that’s not just played for Japan but also in the Portuguese top flight and scored against the likes of Sporting and Porto is of good enough pedigree. So I’m not sure if it’s down to culture adjustment, language or says more about how we play or even more about the style of our league, I dunno.

 

Just wish we could have a chance to judge for ourselves. Oda barely got a chance under Neilson and looked destined to be a flop, but some of us could see glimpses to know he should be given a run. Neilson got sacked and then Oda went on to be one of our better performers as the season ended.

 

Guy has had 554 minutes of football for us. That’s the equivalent of just over 6 games. He’s never had a full 90 minutes. There’s been 42 games across all competitions so far for us this season, he’s missed 8 through injury, 1 game he hadn’t signed in time for and 1 where he just wasn’t picked for the squad. Out of the other 32 he’s been on the bench and not come on 16 times. Out of the 16 he has been on the pitch, he’s only started 4 of them. The most time he’s had in one game is 68 minutes in the first game against Kilmarnock at Tynecastle which finished 0-0. Least amount of time he’s had on the pitch is the last 3 minutes against PAOK at home. Average game time for his 16 games played is under 35 minutes.

 

His 4 starts:

 

- Kilmarnock (H) - 0-0 (68 mins)

- Rangers (H) - 0-1 (65 mins)

- Ross County (H) - 2-2 (45 mins)

- Spartans (A) - 2-1 (59 mins)

 

Since he’s a player that can get in behind high lines and run channels, I can’t see home games against Killie and County being those sorts of games. Spartans away most definitely wasn’t. Rangers at home makes sense, but it’s Rangers at the end of the day. I just don’t really see him as been given as much as a shot as you’d think he’d have. I know Shankland plays 90 minutes as talisman and captain, so that automatically reduces game time. But yesterday should have been the opportunity and it wasn’t given. So I just can’t see why he’d be kept if we are not going to play a style that suits him or just not play him at all.

He's definitely not had a proper chance, as you've outlined comprehensively in your post. Nowhere near as bad as some of the hyperbolic stuff that's been written on here. We don't see him in training as you say and therein may lie the issue. Who can know definitively.

 

Can't see him being here next season which feels a bit of a shame as I've always felt when I've watched him that he has some attributes that could serve us well. I can see Oda moving on too.

Edited April 7 by Carter

[Dagger Is Back]

9 hours ago, jr ewing said:

Can't be showing anything in training either. 

A mate who is a scout has seen him in training and said he’s a cracking finisher.

 

It’s not as simple as that I know but….

[cosanostra]

He'll be moved on in the summer I'd imagine.