Tagawa ?.

[Pasquale for King]

37 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

That was down to the home grown player rule though, otherwise he would have been in the squad.   Grant had also at least shown something, Tagawa has literally offered us nothing.  We’d have been as well keeping Damour and trying him up front (is he still here btw?!). 

It was a 22 man squad, he's first choice now, thats a huge turnaround.
Because we don’t play to his strengths, at ER we saw the space between Fish and Miller and exploited it 6 times but Forrest or Shankland couldn’t score, I think Tagawa would’ve. He’s barely had a chance. 

Edited April 8 by Pasquale for King
Spelling

[Pasquale for King]

33 minutes ago, HopeDiouf said:

Do agree it wasn't good.  But overall it's been good.  Vargas has exceeded expectations I'd say.  Never going to get them all right.

Vargas definitely, but was a loan so they weren’t convinced. Maybe thats the way forward for guys from far flung places, like Kuol. 

[Pasquale for King]

32 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

How much did we pay?

Not sure but the rumours were £3-400k.

[jamboinglasgow]

1 hour ago, hmfc_liam06 said:

 

I'm in this camp too, it's too easy to write someone off after less than a season.

I suspect our attitude towards him will be that we won't stand in his way should an offer come in but equally we'll be happy to have him here and prove his worth.

 

Thats my position too. If he goes in the summer then I wish him well, but I do think if he stays then I still think he could surprise people next season.

 

I do think people are reading too much into the game on Saturday to say that he is not rated anymore. If Vargas was taken off and Fraser put on, then you could argue Naismith doesn't trust Tagawa, but it was Fraser for Grant, which are swapping two very similar players. It would have been nice to see Tagawa getting a run out but I dont think that means Naismith doesn't rate him at all.

 

I think three things have gone against Tagawa this season, the first is that he is a striker behind Shankland who rarely gets injured. The second is that he missed part of the season that allowed Vargas to play reguarly and get up to speed and ahead. The third is that I think he was recruited to play the style that Naismith ultimately wants to play but due to a lack of creativity because McKay got injured and Lowry did not rise to the required level mixed with that most teams in the league played very deep defensive football (more teams than you normally get in a season.) It has made things hard for Tagawa to get a chance.

 

I would say next season, you could have Shankland gone, which opens up chances (even if we sign someone, they may take a few games to get up to speed allowing others a chance to stake a claim.) He will go into pre-season with Vargas most likely at the Copa America so gives himself a full pre-season to get into the managers eye. Finally from the signings we have already made, its clear we are changing how we will play, Spittal and Dhanda (with McKay fully fit) are players who can unlock a low block and play the passes that Tagawa wants. Also European football may allow him to play to his strengths (and mean we need to utilise the whole squad.)

 

As I say it could be that he is off in the summer and we never know, but I think it can be too early to write him off.

[HopeDiouf]

1 minute ago, jamboinglasgow said:

I do think people are reading too much into the game on Saturday to say that he is not rated anymore.

Not just one game though.  More the fact that he's not getting on at all.  Last time he got decent minutes was 3-0 up at Airdrie.  Manager has said he'll get game time when he's showing it in training....

[Sherbet]

to utilise his pace you have to play the ball forward early,  we dont do that

[Pasquale for King]

8 minutes ago, jamboinglasgow said:

 

Thats my position too. If he goes in the summer then I wish him well, but I do think if he stays then I still think he could surprise people next season.

 

I do think people are reading too much into the game on Saturday to say that he is not rated anymore. If Vargas was taken off and Fraser put on, then you could argue Naismith doesn't trust Tagawa, but it was Fraser for Grant, which are swapping two very similar players. It would have been nice to see Tagawa getting a run out but I dont think that means Naismith doesn't rate him at all.

 

I think three things have gone against Tagawa this season, the first is that he is a striker behind Shankland who rarely gets injured. The second is that he missed part of the season that allowed Vargas to play reguarly and get up to speed and ahead. The third is that I think he was recruited to play the style that Naismith ultimately wants to play but due to a lack of creativity because McKay got injured and Lowry did not rise to the required level mixed with that most teams in the league played very deep defensive football (more teams than you normally get in a season.) It has made things hard for Tagawa to get a chance.

 

I would say next season, you could have Shankland gone, which opens up chances (even if we sign someone, they may take a few games to get up to speed allowing others a chance to stake a claim.) He will go into pre-season with Vargas most likely at the Copa America so gives himself a full pre-season to get into the managers eye. Finally from the signings we have already made, its clear we are changing how we will play, Spittal and Dhanda (with McKay fully fit) are players who can unlock a low block and play the passes that Tagawa wants. Also European football may allow him to play to his strengths (and mean we need to utilise the whole squad.)

 

As I say it could be that he is off in the summer and we never know, but I think it can be too early to write him off.

He put Grant right up front then Fraser  when he went off, wasn’t a midfielder for a midfielder ffs. 
We can only hope he comes good, McKay being fit would help him too but only if he’s actually on the pitch obviously. 

[Pasquale for King]

7 minutes ago, Sherbet said:

to utilise his pace you have to play the ball forward early,  we dont do that

Exactly, we play better on the rare occasion we play Vargas up ahead of Shankland and play passes that stretch teams, Tagawa can do that job too.

[Fozzyonthefence]

55 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

It was a 22 man squad, he's first choice now, thats a huge turnaround.
Because we don’t play to his strengths, at ER we saw the space between Fish and Miller and exploited it 6 times but Forrest or Shankland couldn’t score, I think Tagawa would’ve. He’s barely had a chance. 

I’m not sure we’ve seen anything to know what his strengths are?!  At what point do you say enough is enough and cut your losses?  Presumably he’s also doing nothing in training to suggest he deserves another chance.  How long until you gave up on Oshinawa or Damour?

 

Shankland did score at ER btw.  And one of the few kinda positive things I can remember about Tagawa was him getting on the end of a through ball at St Johnstone I think.   But he missed!

Edited April 8 by Fozzyonthefence

[Fozzyonthefence]

51 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Not sure but the rumours were £3-400k.

That’s pretty much a free transfer these days!

[kingantti1874]

18 minutes ago, Sherbet said:

to utilise his pace you have to play the ball forward early,  we dont do that

 
because teams sit deep and compact and there is no room in behind 

[jr ewing]

7 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

That’s pretty much a free transfer these days!

Can't waste money. 

[Bongo 1874]

Arguably both Tagawa & Oda could be our very best players, we play Shankland as the leading striker.

 

This has hurt us at times this season.

 

Although Vargas is maybe not as clinical as Shankland.

 

He has shown he will make chances for himself,by simply going in behind, and being a defenders nightmare.

 

We must get the Shankland situation sorted by summer.

 

In a 4231 with gino just ahead of Shankland it worked perfectly.

 

But you need two central midfield players,that are 1.disciplined 2. Have a very good understanding and are very hardworking.

 

Shankland isn't the quickest, but he's very clinical when presented chances.

 

On Saturday we showed we can play without Shankland.

 

I think Tagawa will get more chances.

 

 

[Pasquale for King]

34 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

I’m not sure we’ve seen anything to know what his strengths are?!  At what point do you say enough is enough and cut your losses?  Presumably he’s also doing nothing in training to suggest he deserves another chance.  How long until you gave up on Oshinawa or Damour?

 

Shankland did score at ER btw.  And one of the few kinda positive things I can remember about Tagawa was him getting on the end of a through ball at St Johnstone I think.   But he missed!

Its clear from what we have seen in glimpses that he likes an early ball down the left channel, where we exposed Hibs by playing quick and clever balls. Shankland scored from a hoof in the right channel. 
The manager seems to have chosen him so he has failed to utilise or motivate the guy if he leaves. 
People have wanted rid of Grant for ages but have changed their minds, the manager included.

[Threedoorsdown]

5 minutes ago, Bongo 1874 said:

Arguably both Tagawa & Oda could be our very best players, we play Shankland as the leading striker.

 

This has hurt us at times this season.

 

Although Vargas is maybe not as clinical as Shankland.

 

He has shown he will make chances for himself,by simply going in behind, and being a defenders nightmare.

 

We must get the Shankland situation sorted by summer.

 

In a 4231 with gino just ahead of Shankland it worked perfectly.

 

But you need two central midfield players,that are 1.disciplined 2. Have a very good understanding and are very hardworking.

 

Shankland isn't the quickest, but he's very clinical when presented chances.

 

On Saturday we showed we can play without Shankland.

 

I think Tagawa will get more chances.

 

 

Tagawa and Oda aren’t anywhere near being our best players. 😳

[Pasquale for King]

36 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

 
because teams sit deep and compact and there is no room in behind 

What teams? Most creep up and squeeze the room in midfield because we have no threat in behind. We still try to play through the congested midfield. 

[JamboAl]

9 minutes ago, Bongo 1874 said:

Arguably both Tagawa & Oda could be our very best players, we play Shankland as the leading striker.

 

This has hurt us at times this season.

 

Although Vargas is maybe not as clinical as Shankland.

 

He has shown he will make chances for himself,by simply going in behind, and being a defenders nightmare.

 

We must get the Shankland situation sorted by summer.

 

In a 4231 with gino just ahead of Shankland it worked perfectly.

 

But you need two central midfield players,that are 1.disciplined 2. Have a very good understanding and are very hardworking.

 

Shankland isn't the quickest, but he's very clinical when presented chances.

 

On Saturday we showed we can play without Shankland.

 

I think Tagawa will get more chances.

 

 

Any idea how we get it sorted by summer?

Negotiations take as long as they take.

[Bongo 1874]

4 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

Any idea how we get it sorted by summer?

Negotiations take as long as they take.

Can only ask Shankland how he feels,does he want to commit his future to Hearts,what he would want to do exactly that?

 

If that can't be done,I would tell him if we get an offer that matches our valuation, we will possibly sell you.

 

But it won't be to a team in our league.

[Bongo 1874]

24 minutes ago, Threedoorsdown said:

Tagawa and Oda aren’t anywhere near being our best players. 😳

Helps if you play to there strengths,which has been pointed out by numerous poster's.

 

You would genuinely think both Oda and Tagawa,are the worst player's to ever grace a Hearts jersey according to some on here.

 

When in fact,Forrest is having season of his life,Vargas is having a good season too.

 

So it's difficult to get in the team just now.

 

And as much as I like my players upfront to be quicker,it would be crazy I admit to drop Shankland Just now.

 

Though I do think against certain teams, you are better with a quicker forward upfront.

 

Shankland has played a lot of games this season.

 

We need other players to take responsibility when he isn't playing.

 

Great player to have Shankland, I hope we can keep him.

 

But Hearts aren't a one man team.

 

This is how you create and change one dimensional thinking.

 

If Shankland is out no worries we have Vargas and Tagawa, that should be the attitude fear Nothing & No-one, that's what it means to play for a big club.

 

Shankland is out Vargas & Tagawa thinking should be,here's my chance to make a name for myself.

 

To give the Gaffer good problems to have.

Edited April 8 by Bongo 1874

[Fozzyonthefence]

24 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Its clear from what we have seen in glimpses that he likes an early ball down the left channel, where we exposed Hibs by playing quick and clever balls. Shankland scored from a hoof in the right channel. 
The manager seems to have chosen him so he has failed to utilise or motivate the guy if he leaves. 
People have wanted rid of Grant for ages but have changed their minds, the manager included.

I would get rid of both Grant and Tagawa but if one is to stay it would be Grant for me.  At least he has contributed to the team this season.  

[JamboAl]

7 minutes ago, Bongo 1874 said:

Can only ask Shankland how he feels,does he want to commit his future to Hearts,what he would want to do exactly that?

 

If that can't be done,I would tell him if we get an offer that matches our valuation, we will possibly sell you.

 

But it won't be to a team in our league.

And if we don't get an offer?

Re your final para, if we are offered £5m by either of the arse cheeks and £2m by say Sunderland, do we sell to the mackems?

I'm afraid it is not as simple as you imply.

[Bongo 1874]

5 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

And if we don't get an offer?

Re your final para, if we are offered £5m by either of the arse cheeks and £2m by say Sunderland, do we sell to the mackems?

I'm afraid it is not as simple as you imply.

Both offers are profit in my eyes.

 

You think Rangers or Celtic will offer £5mil 🤔 Celtic tried to get mcginn for 1.5mil.

 

Rangers made a bid of 1.5mil for ferguson, who is a younger player.

 

No way they offer £5mil for a 28 year old player ,that plays in the same league.

 

Rangers want Mcburnie.

Pre contract. 

Shankland maybe needs to have a think.

Edited April 8 by Bongo 1874

[kingantti1874]

11 minutes ago, Bongo 1874 said:

Both offers are profit in my eyes.

 

You think Rangers or Celtic will offer £5mil 🤔 Celtic tried to get mcginn for 1.5mil.

 

Rangers made a bid of 1.5mil for ferguson, who is a younger player.

 

No way they offer £5mil for a 28 year old player ,that plays in the same league.

 

Rangers want Mcburnie.

Pre contract. 

Shankland maybe needs to have a think.

well it will cost more than £2m to replace him so it won’t be a profit that for sure

 

17 minutes ago, Bongo 1874 said:

Helps if you play to there strengths,which has been pointed out by numerous poster's.

 

You would genuinely think both Oda and Tagawa,are the worst player's to ever grace a Hearts jersey according to some on here.

 

When in fact,Forrest is having season of his life,Vargas is having a good season too.

 

So it's difficult to get in the team just now.

 

And as much as I like my players upfront to be quicker,it would be crazy I admit to drop Shankland Just now.

 

Though I do think against certain teams, you are better with a quicker forward upfront.

 

Shankland has played a lot of games this season.

 

We need other players to take responsibility when he isn't playing.

 

Great player to have Shankland, I hope we can keep him.

 

But Hearts aren't a one man team.

 

This is how you create and change one dimensional thinking.

 

If Shankland is out no worries we have Vargas and Tagawa, that should be the attitude fear Nothing & No-one, that's what it means to play for a big club.

 

Shankland is out Vargas & Tagawa thinking should be,here's my chance to make a name for myself.

 

To give the Gaffer good problems to have.

so we should drop deep and relinquish possession of the ball, and play counterattack against livi and the likes to suit Tagawa and Oda? 
 

We can’t play quick balls in behind when the is no space in behind. We are not a counter attacking team becuase that’s not the demand tbe opposition make of us

.

tagaw does not meet our requirements I’m afraid and hasn’t adapted to offer what we need him to do.

Edited April 8 by kingantti1874

[kingantti1874]

40 minutes ago, Threedoorsdown said:

Tagawa and Oda aren’t anywhere near being our best players. 😳

Not even remotely close.  

[Bongo 1874]

6 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

well it will cost more than £2m to replace him so it won’t be a profit that for sure

 

so we should drop deep and relinquish possession of the ball, and play counterattack against livi and the likes to suit Tagawa and Oda? 
 

We can’t play quick balls in behind when the is no space in behind. We are not a counter attacking team becuase that’s not the demand tbe opposition make of us

.

tagaw does not meet our requirements I’m afraid and hasn’t adapted to offer what we need him to do.

First one don't agree, we have lost better players than Shankland and replaced them.

 

I can name atleast 4 that could replace him that is within our budget.

6 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

well it will cost more than £2m to replace him so it won’t be a profit that for sure

 

so we should drop deep and relinquish possession of the ball, and play counterattack against livi and the likes to suit Tagawa and Oda? 
 

We can’t play quick balls in behind when the is no space in behind. We are not a counter attacking team becuase that’s not the demand tbe opposition make of us

.

tagaw does not meet our requirements I’m afraid and hasn’t adapted to offer what we need him to do.

No we should play more through balls and be quicker with our play,then we might find the likes of Tagawa Oda&Vargas who make great runs off the ball but Dont receive it,due to us playing safe and not being brave.

 

Something Naismith has came out with and personally highlighted about us playing too safe, and needing to be more brave when in possession of the ball.

 

Can't wait to have Dhanda,Spittal,And a fit McKay who will see these runs and play it.

 

 

 

 

Edited April 8 by Bongo 1874

[Gav M]

Naismith mentioned previously that he wants to bring in players for the season after they sign, give them time to settle and integrate with the squad and staff. I believe both Vargas and Tagawa were these type of players, we've just been lucky that Vargas adapted far quicker than expected.

on the back of those comments by SN I think he'll still be here next year and we'll start to see more from him

[johnking123]

19 hours ago, Chaps said:

Loan or permanent?

Unsure, but he wants to stay in Europe.

[JamboAl]

1 hour ago, Bongo 1874 said:

Both offers are profit in my eyes.

 

But it might be a loss compared with what we could make in Europe if we keep him

 

You think Rangers or Celtic will offer £5mil 🤔 Celtic tried to get mcginn for 1.5mil.

 

No I don't but you seemed adamant it wouldn't be to a Scottish club and I put forward a "for instance".

 

Rangers made a bid of 1.5mil for ferguson, who is a younger player.

 

So what?  Different player, different position

No way they offer £5mil for a 28 year old player ,that plays in the same league.

 

You're probably right about that

 

Rangers want Mcburnie.

Pre contract. 

Shankland maybe needs to have a think.

I'm still intrigued how you say Hearts must finish it by the summer.  Next summer, maybe.

Shankland will be having a think and the cards seem to be stacked in his favour at present but one injury could change the whole perspective.

Edited April 8 by JamboAl

[Bongo 1874]

5 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

I'm still intrigued how you say Hearts must finish it by the summer.  Next summer, maybe.

Shankland will be having a think and the cards seemed to be stacked in his favour at present but one injury could change the whole perspective.

Because I'm sick of it being the constant topic of conversation, will he go to Rangers,it's boring and it's all about that.

 

Rather than talk about how good a club Hearts are,you have numbnuts saying we are nothing without him,and it's simply no true.

 

Constant topic from pundits, like Shankland is too good to play for us,**** off with that pish.

 

Shankland was nothing absolutely lost in Belgium,and with the clubs help and belief we turned him into a player.

 

Bit of perspective needed from the lad.

 

And I'll say it again,if Shankland goes to Rangers he will never be a legend at that club.

 

At us he can be paid well,and know he has a club and fanbase that love him.

 

Not just a number.

 

 

Edited April 8 by Bongo 1874

[JamboAl]

2 minutes ago, Bongo 1874 said:

Because I'm sick of it being the constant topic of conversation, will he go to Rangers,it's boring and it's all about that.

 

Rather than talk about how good a club Hearts are,you have numbnuts saying we are nothing without him,and it's simply no true.

 

Constant topic from pundits, like Shankland is too good to play for us,**** off with that pish.

 

Shankland was nothing absolutely lost in Belgium,and with the clubs help and belief we turned him into a player.

 

Bit of perspective needed from the lad.

 

And I'll say it again,if Shankland goes to Rangers he will never be a legend at that club.

 

At us he can be paid well,and know he has a club and fanbase that love him.

 

Not just a number.

 

 

Yes, I think we'll all be glad when it's sorted.

He has to decide whether to chase money etc or be happy where he is - assuming he is happy with us.

[kingantti1874]

1 hour ago, Bongo 1874 said:

First one don't agree, we have lost better players than Shankland and replaced them.

 

I can name atleast 4 that could replace him that is within our budget.

No we should play more through balls and be quicker with our play,then we might find the likes of Tagawa Oda&Vargas who make great runs off the ball but Dont receive it,due to us playing safe and not being brave.

 

Something Naismith has came out with and personally highlighted about us playing too safe, and needing to be more brave when in possession of the ball.

 

Can't wait to have Dhanda,Spittal,And a fit McKay who will see these runs and play it.

 

 

 

 

on shankland. If so easy to replace why have we not just done that for the past 30 years. And why does every other team not just sign a 30 goal a season striker? Why would anyone bother paying for him if there are a plethora of similar quality players available 

 

come on bongo.  There isn’t even another one like him in the league

 

not impossible but extremely difficult to replace. Hope I’m wrong 

[Gordons left glove]

4 hours ago, Pasquale for King said:

Not sure but the rumours were £3-400k.

Think it was 6-700k. Lot of people said he was quite a big money signing. Big money for us anyway.

[Pasquale for King]

16 minutes ago, Gordons left glove said:

Think it was 6-700k. Lot of people said he was quite a big money signing. Big money for us anyway.

That’s a lot for us to pay for someone we dont play to ob the rare occasion that he gets a chance. 

[Gordons left glove]

8 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

That’s a lot for us to pay for someone we dont play to ob the rare occasion that he gets a chance. 

Need to hope it isn't true

[Bongo 1874]

55 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

on shankland. If so easy to replace why have we not just done that for the past 30 years. And why does every other team not just sign a 30 goal a season striker? Why would anyone bother paying for him if there are a plethora of similar quality players available 

 

come on bongo.  There isn’t even another one like him in the league

 

not impossible but extremely difficult to replace. Hope I’m wrong 

Football has evolved if you like, where certain things back in the day,you could get away with etc.

 

Todays game is big on sport scientists, analysts etc which give players a better chance of becoming better players,they really do live a good life some of these guys.

 

Some don't realise how good they actually have it.

 

And I would argue that's on us, we haven't found good goalscorers.

 

But the most important thing,and I want to thank Budge,the supporters and others etc.

 

We have financial stability, something we have never really had,this allows us to invest in better players.

 

Now finding good goalscorers and having a very good scouting network, props to Savage who i have given stick.

 

Will allow us to replace Shankland,just like Bodo Glimt do, Brentford or Brighton/Toulouse.

 

 

Edited April 8 by Bongo 1874

[Aussie Jambo]

Anyone that’s played football knows if you’re a sub you’re either coming back from injury or you’re not good enough. Simples. 

[Sherbet]

5 hours ago, kingantti1874 said:

 
because teams sit deep and compact and there is no room in behind 

There is when they are attacking ,have a corner. 

[PHSCAndy]

1 hour ago, Aussie Jambo said:

Anyone that’s played football knows if you’re a sub you’re either coming back from injury or you’re not good enough. Simples. 

Fair comment AJ but then why list Tagawa as a sub against St Mirren?

If Naismith really doesn’t rate him as many on this forum seem to believe then wouldn’t he have listed a youth player instead of giving the lad false hope?

I don’t profess to being in the know however I suspect that had we been totally controlling the game on Saturday then Tagawa would’ve been brought on at some point. 
I believe (as has been suggested by many) that Naismith currently has us playing to our strengths with regards to our players abilities. 
I hope that Shanks stays with us for years to come however if he doesn’t then our game plan with regards to our players abilities will undoubtedly change and perhaps that’s when we may see why we signed Tagawa in the 1st place. 
Time will tell I guess  🤞

[Bazzas right boot]

Oda and Tagawa,  best players?

[cosanostra]

I can't imagine that Tagawa would have cost much because he was in the last 6 months of his contract. I'm sure it was reported as a low six figure fee. 

I'm guessing £100k-£200k.