Assisted dying

[Ulysses]

Sometime in the next couple of days, an Irish Parliamentary Committee is expected to recommend that legislation be enacted to allow for both assisted suicide and euthanasia in certain specified circumstances.  Assisted suicide is where a person takes action to end their own life with the assistance of a medical professional.  Euthanasia is where a medical professional ends the life of a person who wishes to die but who is physically unable to take action to end their own life.

 

The report of the Committee hasn't been seen yet, but it is expected to be very specific about the conditions under which a person could avail of assisted dying. 

 

Cttee to recommend laws for assisted dying, euthanasia (rte.ie)

 

However, because a General Election is likely to be held in Ireland later this year, there is a strong likelihood that legislation will not be prepared and passed before Parliament is dissolved.

 

Doubt cast over capacity to enact assisted dying laws (rte.ie)

 

The Isle of Man is about to become the first place in these islands to allow assisted dying, having recently passed legislation to that effect.  Assisted dying is also allowed in a few other countries, including Belgium, Switzerland, and Holland, as well as Australia, New Zealand, Canada and some US states.

 

An Assisted Dying Bill is in process in the Scottish Parliament, and if it has enough support it could be passed by early 2025..

 

Assisted Dying poll: Should Scotland have a 'right to die' law? | The Herald (heraldscotland.com)

 

And of course assisted dying has been in the news in England and Wales in recent days as well.

 

 

A recent Opinium poll showed a very strong majority in favour of such legislation in the UK.

 

Overwhelming majority support assisted dying, largest ever poll says | ITV News

 

 

However, a lot of people would be concerned about the scope for euthanasia to expand.  The article below gives some examples of that expansion that have caused concern in Canada, where medically assisted dying legislation was introduced in 2016.

 

Canada’s assisted dying laws in spotlight as expansion paused again | Canada | The Guardian

 

 

In Ireland's case, I think the Parliamentary Committee have made a good recommendation, but I still wouldn't be sure how I'd feel about it until I could read the proposed legislation.  

 

Over to you, JKB.

[Jim_Duncan]

A distant relative in a country in which this is legal made the decision to go through with this. He was an inspirational, energetic man and didn’t want to end his days having his chin wiped and being a burden. 
 

If the politicians can get the legislation right, then this should be done asap. 

[Tazio]

I’m all for it. I don’t want to sound morbid but I’m 58 now and have lost a few people I know in the last couple of years who were the same age and it makes you massively aware of your own mortality. By horrendous coincidence 2 friends died of brain cancer in the space of a few weeks in the new year. One of them was amazingly frank about what it was doing to him as it took hold. The horrible thing being that he was a writer and he became incapable of reading as the various processes in his brain died off. 

[Ulysses]

Just now, Jim_Duncan said:

A distant relative in a country in which this is legal made the decision to go through with this. He was an inspirational, energetic man and didn’t want to end his days having his chin wiped and being a burden. 
 

If the politicians can get the legislation right, then this should be done asap. 

 

I should say that I would want to be able to avail of this myself if needed.  But of course the crucial bit you've identified is getting the legislation right.

[Jim_Duncan]

1 minute ago, Tazio said:

I’m all for it. I don’t want to sound morbid but I’m 58 now and have lost a few people I know in the last couple of years who were the same age and it makes you massively aware of your own mortality. By horrendous coincidence 2 friends died of brain cancer in the space of a few weeks in the new year. One of them was amazingly frank about what it was doing to him as it took hold. The horrible thing being that he was a writer and he became incapable of reading as the various processes in his brain died off. 

That’s terrifying. 

[Ulysses]

1 minute ago, Tazio said:

I’m all for it. I don’t want to sound morbid but I’m 58 now and have lost a few people I know in the last couple of years who were the same age and it makes you massively aware of your own mortality. By horrendous coincidence 2 friends died of brain cancer in the space of a few weeks in the new year. One of them was amazingly frank about what it was doing to him as it took hold. The horrible thing being that he was a writer and he became incapable of reading as the various processes in his brain died off. 

 

One of the best fellas I ever worked with died of brain cancer at the age of 61 about 15 years ago.  I met him for a long lunch when things were still at an early stage, but when he already knew his cancer could only be alleviated.  He was quite philosophical about his prospects, except for one thing, which was that he couldn't have some bit of control over how and when he'd die.

 

On the other hand, my best man died a few years ago of a massive heart attack in his sleep.  The doctors said the chances were that he knew absolutely nothing about it.  He was only in his late fifties, but I've lost count of the number of people who said that at least he was lucky because he didn't linger, or suffer, or lose his faculties.

[Ulysses]

8 minutes ago, Jim_Duncan said:

That’s terrifying. 

 

It is.

[Tazio]

50 minutes ago, Jim_Duncan said:

That’s terrifying. 

Really scary what can happen to your body. He could see perfectly but for whatever reason his brain couldn’t process what he saw into words. It was like he’d forgotten how to read. To go from a man who wrote plays for BBC4 to a man whose kids had to read him the newspaper every day and dictate to his wife if he wanted to send emails or post on social media. 

[Maple Leaf]

Medical Assistance in Dying (MAID) has been legal in Canada since 2016.  The law has wide support in the population.  There was a recent attempt to expand the law to include people whose sole condition was mental illness, but that was punted down the road for three years.

 

There is a rigorous screening process to ensure that a person seeking MAID is not being pressured by anyone, and that the person has reached that decision by himself.  The process also ensures that the patient understands the treatment options available.

 

The number of people who used the MAID option in 2022 was over 13,000 and that number has grown steadily over the years.  Nevertheless, it still represents only about 4% of total deaths in the country.

 

I don't know anyone who opposes the MAID law.  You can read more about it with the link below.

 

https://www.canada.ca/en/health-canada/services/health-services-benefits/medical-assistance-dying.html

[Ray Gin]

Mental to me that we will end the suffering of an animal but not a fellow human.

[PortyJambo]

It's something that is close to me at the moment, as my mum (84) is riddled with illnesses that she won't get any better from and says to us all the time that she's had enough and just wants to die now. She's in constant pain and in and out of hospital where they prod and poke at her for a few days, give her something that gets her a little better then she's discharged and the cycle starts again.

 

I don't want her to suffer, she doesn't want to suffer any longer. There should be a legal way to end it in a dignifying way. Everyone is suffering because we have this aim to keep people alive long past the time they would have gone if there wasn't medical intervention. We say it a kindness to end the suffering of animals, so why not humans? 

[Americana]

Im not sure if its California where the law allows you the medication to support assisted dying with any terminal illness. Fully support anyones right to make this decision, how inhumane it is that you are expected to live until you have lost all your dignity and suffered for a period of time, also think that once this becomes the norm it may be easier for families to except relatives decisions and allow them to go on there own terms.

[jamb0_1874]

4 hours ago, Ray Gin said:

Mental to me that we will end the suffering of an animal but not a fellow human.

My thoughts exactly...

[scott herbertson]

Acting as an executor at the moment. Totally in favour of assisted dying. Crazy that it isn’t possible even now.

 

clearly have to ensure medical staff are looked after / kept safe in the process, and also that the person is of sound mind when the decision is made. But it must happen soon. Without it we are making people suffer and use medical facilities/ resources which could be better diverted to saving those who want to live.

[Mikey1874]

Looks like ìts coming in UK and in Scotland. About 75% support for it in recent consultation. 

[Maple Leaf]

3 hours ago, PortyJambo said:

It's something that is close to me at the moment, as my mum (84) is riddled with illnesses that she won't get any better from and says to us all the time that she's had enough and just wants to die now. She's in constant pain and in and out of hospital where they prod and poke at her for a few days, give her something that gets her a little better then she's discharged and the cycle starts again.

 

I don't want her to suffer, she doesn't want to suffer any longer. There should be a legal way to end it in a dignifying way. Everyone is suffering because we have this aim to keep people alive long past the time they would have gone if there wasn't medical intervention. We say it a kindness to end the suffering of animals, so why not humans? 

I'm sorry to read about your mum.  It's an awful situation for her and her loved ones.

 

The Canadian MAID law was written with people like your mum in mind.  The accounts I've read says that the procedure is a very peaceful and dignified way for a person to end his/her earthly journey.  It's invariably done at home, and the patient has their family around them.  Sometimes the patient's favorite music is playing in the background. The doctor offers the patient one more opportunity to decline the procedure.  A sedative is given through IV and the patient falls asleep, then another drug is given that stops the heart.  The patient literally dies in his/her sleep.  There is no pain.

 

As mentioned earlier, the law has wide support in Canada.  The only ones who oppose it do so on religious grounds; "Only God can give life or end life."  They are in a tiny minority.

 

Best wishes for your mum. 

 

 

[Spellczech]

All for it.

 

I watched my father die after a week in agony last year and it was very unpleasant. "Pain management" was constantly erring on the side of caution which meant he was still in enormous delirious pain. Here is what happened:

 

He had dementia and it was getting towards the end. An external catheter was fitted through the urethra to the bladder. He had a kidney infection which is often the way dementia patients finally check out. In his delirium he pulled out the catheter doing himself damage. It was refitted at home but he pulled it out again. Ambulance took him to hospital on Xmas Eve. This is when I got a call and headed to QE hospital in Glasgow. I stayed with him in A&E for 8 hrs during which time they eventually refitted the catheter but I had to keep getting nurses to empty it as they didn't appear to be checking him themselves. Could not get a doctor to see him for hours though doctors kept swinging by to check the nurses had gone and had some Dominos which had been delivered...I began to get rather annoyed at all this. Anyway, eventually a doctor came and he was admitted to a ward with a private room. I left about 8pm and went to check on my mother who also has dementia.

 

Next day he was moved the the geriactrics ward which was in an annex and was quite horrible. I arrived to find him writhing in pain and making a lot of noise which was terrifying for the other 5 old men in the ward...Nurse told me he'd again pulled the catheter out but after some effort she had managed to reinsert it and had inflated the bag with more air to try to stop it being removed again. I called my wife as this sounded strange to me. She said "that is not something I would do..." (she's a nurse). Sure enough he pulled it out again causing more damage. Being Xmas week we could not get any consultants until Wednesday (Xmas Eve in 2022 had been Saturday). When the consultants did finally return to work, they disagreed on the approach to take - one wanted to try again to insert via his damaged urethra, the other wanted to do a surgical/direct tap to the bladder. It also turned out that the nurse who had reinserted and put 3ml of air in had actually missed the bladder! By then I was really struggling to keep control of my temper, especially when I saw the facial reaction of one of the doctors when I related the story about the catheter bag having more air put in it...She could not hide her shock. I bit my tongue and through gritted teeth said that I would rely on her to report it as necessary, as it seemed to be bordering on medical negligence to me...Anyway he died a couple of days later and it was one hell of a relief TBH...

 

One addendum is that it took my sister to propose putting a fake catheter tube in his hand to stop him pulling on the real one. I wish I'd thought of it...but I'm a more surprised the medical staff didn't think of it!!!

 

I'm just glad it was me that saw all this ,as I wasn't as close to my father as my sister. She flew back from NYC but just missed his passing. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

Any plans to end a persons life should be the sole decision of the dying person. It’s a slippery slope if peoples life’s are ended to prolong the pain or suffering of the soon to be bereaved . I’ve had a few close family members die of a terminal illness and they did not want to have an assisted death . They held on as long as they could with obviously strong meds to alleviate any pain and gradually and naturally passed away , probably with the aid of a final dose of strong pain killers like morphine etc . However if people are clearly off a sound mind and wish to end their life at a certain cut off point , then that’s entirely their choice . Again from experiences , I know it’s very difficult emotionally watching  someone dying day by day but there is also the aspect of having a beautiful and peaceful ending by being by their side until they pass on . Holding their hand . 

[Footballfirst]

I have no issue with those who are against allowing assisted dying. They have the right to allow nature to take its course as it affects them.  I do have a problem however with those who seek to use those rights to override the rights of others to make an informed choice as to when they decide to die with dignity.

[Spellczech]

6 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

Any plans to end a persons life should be the sole decision of the dying person. It’s a slippery slope if peoples life’s are ended to prolong the pain or suffering of the soon to be bereaved . I’ve had a few close family members die of a terminal illness and they did not want to have an assisted death . They held on as long as they could with obviously strong meds to alleviate any pain and gradually and naturally passed away , probably with the aid of a final dose of strong pain killers like morphine etc . However if people are clearly off a sound mind and wish to end their life at a certain cut off point , then that’s entirely their choice . Again from experiences , I know it’s very difficult emotionally watching  someone dying day by day but there is also the aspect of having a beautiful and peaceful ending by being by their side until they pass on . Holding their hand . 

think I told you this before but my father who was off his head with demented delirium, pain and meds begged my mum for his gun when she asked if he wanted anything... he'd surrendered his gun after Dunblane. No lie, if he'd still had it, I would've been tempted to bring him it.

[JudyJudyJudy]

7 minutes ago, Spellczech said:

think I told you this before but my father who was off his head with demented delirium, pain and meds begged my mum for his gun when she asked if he wanted anything... he'd surrendered his gun after Dunblane. No lie, if he'd still had it, I would've been tempted to bring him it.

Thats very sad . Sorry to hear this . My experiences around those who have died have been more peaceful and pain free . So that’s been a blessing for them and ofcourse those around them. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

21 minutes ago, Spellczech said:

All for it.

 

I watched my father die after a week in agony last year and it was very unpleasant. "Pain management" was constantly erring on the side of caution which meant he was still in enormous delirious pain. Here is what happened:

 

He had dementia and it was getting towards the end. An external catheter was fitted through the urethra to the bladder. He had a kidney infection which is often the way dementia patients finally check out. In his delirium he pulled out the catheter doing himself damage. It was refitted at home but he pulled it out again. Ambulance took him to hospital on Xmas Eve. This is when I got a call and headed to QE hospital in Glasgow. I stayed with him in A&E for 8 hrs during which time they eventually refitted the catheter but I had to keep getting nurses to empty it as they didn't appear to be checking him themselves. Could not get a doctor to see him for hours though doctors kept swinging by to check the nurses had gone and had some Dominos which had been delivered...I began to get rather annoyed at all this. Anyway, eventually a doctor came and he was admitted to a ward with a private room. I left about 8pm and went to check on my mother who also has dementia.

 

Next day he was moved the the geriactrics ward which was in an annex and was quite horrible. I arrived to find him writhing in pain and making a lot of noise which was terrifying for the other 5 old men in the ward...Nurse told me he'd again pulled the catheter out but after some effort she had managed to reinsert it and had inflated the bag with more air to try to stop it being removed again. I called my wife as this sounded strange to me. She said "that is not something I would do..." (she's a nurse). Sure enough he pulled it out again causing more damage. Being Xmas week we could not get any consultants until Wednesday (Xmas Eve in 2022 had been Saturday). When the consultants did finally return to work, they disagreed on the approach to take - one wanted to try again to insert via his damaged urethra, the other wanted to do a surgical/direct tap to the bladder. It also turned out that the nurse who had reinserted and put 3ml of air in had actually missed the bladder! By then I was really struggling to keep control of my temper, especially when I saw the facial reaction of one of the doctors when I related the story about the catheter bag having more air put in it...She could not hide her shock. I bit my tongue and through gritted teeth said that I would rely on her to report it as necessary, as it seemed to be bordering on medical negligence to me...Anyway he died a couple of days later and it was one hell of a relief TBH...

 

One addendum is that it took my sister to propose putting a fake catheter tube in his hand to stop him pulling on the real one. I wish I'd thought of it...but I'm a more surprised the medical staff didn't think of it!!!

 

I'm just glad it was me that saw all this ,as I wasn't as close to my father as my sister. She flew back from NYC but just missed his passing. 

What a distressing experience for you and the family . 

[Ulysses]

Thanks for your stories, and thanks to @Maple Leaf for setting out the Canadian position. 

 

The most recent large-scale opinion poll in the UK carried out by Opinium showed 75% in favour of legislating to allow assisted dying.  I'd guess that views on here would be in line with that.

[Mac_fae_Gillie]

Seen my Gran and Father die after long illness with thier quality of life zero, worse is the effect of this on the partner. Just because modern medicine can keep people alive it really should not be done in all events. If the family (both Gran and Dad were past point of any decision making ) decide to end the life it should go before a panel of retired Doctors to give a decision. 

[XB52]

I'm all for it but there needs to be stringent rules in place

[JudyJudyJudy]

16 minutes ago, Mac_fae_Gillie said:

decide to end the life it should go before a panel of retired Doctors to give a decision. 

See this is an issue . Who gets to decide this ? On what criteria ? As I said earlier any assisted death is in relation to the dying , it should have nothing to do with any pain or suffering loved one are facing dealing with it . It should be 💯 focussed on the dying person. There are cases of loved ones “ not wanting to be a burden “ to loved ones and may feel under pressure to end their lives . 

[AlimOzturk]

8 hours ago, PortyJambo said:

It's something that is close to me at the moment, as my mum (84) is riddled with illnesses that she won't get any better from and says to us all the time that she's had enough and just wants to die now. She's in constant pain and in and out of hospital where they prod and poke at her for a few days, give her something that gets her a little better then she's discharged and the cycle starts again.

 

I don't want her to suffer, she doesn't want to suffer any longer. There should be a legal way to end it in a dignifying way. Everyone is suffering because we have this aim to keep people alive long past the time they would have gone if there wasn't medical intervention. We say it a kindness to end the suffering of animals, so why not humans? 

I agree with assisted dying but as other have alluded to, the person choosing to die must be of sound mind and a medical professional must confirm that there is no hope but only decline. 
 

I can’t get my head around allowing someone with mental illness to choose assisted dying. To me that just seems wrong. 
 

Very big questions need to be asked and answered. Will this be available on the NHS?

[joondalupjambo]

4 hours ago, Footballfirst said:

I have no issue with those who are against allowing assisted dying. They have the right to allow nature to take its course as it affects them.  I do have a byproblem however with those who seek to use those rights to override the rights of others to make an informed choice as to when they decide to die with dignity.

Far too sensible a post for JKB FF.

 

A mate of mine, a diehard Jambo had cancer stage I am buggered.  He wanted to have no treatment and/or take a pill if it was available.  His wife, along with his Doctor both in the same room at the time talked him out of it.  He kept in touch with me during his journey and said in various conversations, and emails that not only was he having a hell of a time but why was he not offered the choice.  He died a horrible death in the end. The wife wanted him to the live to the end and the doctor was following his oath.  However nowhere in that process was he allowed to do what he wanted to do albeit he was of sound mind as he kept telling me.

  

Edited March 14 by joondalupjambo

[Psychedelicropcircle]

17 hours ago, Ulysses said:

Sometime in the next couple of days, an Irish Parliamentary Committee is expected to recommend that legislation be enacted to allow for both assisted suicide and euthanasia in certain specified circumstances.  Assisted suicide is where a person takes action to end their own life with the assistance of a medical professional.  Euthanasia is where a medical professional ends the life of a person who wishes to die but who is physically unable to take action to end their own life.

 

The report of the Committee hasn't been seen yet, but it is expected to be very specific about the conditions under which a person could avail of assisted dying. 

 

Cttee to recommend laws for assisted dying, euthanasia (rte.ie)

 

However, because a General Election is likely to be held in Ireland later this year, there is a strong likelihood that legislation will not be prepared and passed before Parliament is dissolved.

 

Doubt cast over capacity to enact assisted dying laws (rte.ie)

 

The Isle of Man is about to become the first place in these islands to allow assisted dying, having recently passed legislation to that effect.  Assisted dying is also allowed in a few other countries, including Belgium, Switzerland, and Holland, as well as Australia, New Zealand, Canada and some US states.

 

An Assisted Dying Bill is in process in the Scottish Parliament, and if it has enough support it could be passed by early 2025..

 

Assisted Dying poll: Should Scotland have a 'right to die' law? | The Herald (heraldscotland.com)

 

And of course assisted dying has been in the news in England and Wales in recent days as well.

 

 

A recent Opinium poll showed a very strong majority in favour of such legislation in the UK.

 

Overwhelming majority support assisted dying, largest ever poll says | ITV News

 

 

However, a lot of people would be concerned about the scope for euthanasia to expand.  The article below gives some examples of that expansion that have caused concern in Canada, where medically assisted dying legislation was introduced in 2016.

 

Canada’s assisted dying laws in spotlight as expansion paused again | Canada | The Guardian

 

 

In Ireland's case, I think the Parliamentary Committee have made a good recommendation, but I still wouldn't be sure how I'd feel about it until I could read the proposed legislation.  

 

Over to you, JKB.

Just like to say you’ve been a good poster…..see ya 🫢😀

[Ulysses]

4 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

See this is an issue . Who gets to decide this ? On what criteria ? As I said earlier any assisted death is in relation to the dying , it should have nothing to do with any pain or suffering loved one are facing dealing with it . It should be 💯 focussed on the dying person. There are cases of loved ones “ not wanting to be a burden “ to loved ones and may feel under pressure to end their lives . 

 

Apparently the Irish Parliamentary Committee recommendation will be along exactly the lines you suggest.  A person would have to clearly express their wish, and if they couldn't express that wish then no-one else could, regardless of how sad the circumstances. It is also expected that extra safeguards will be recommended to prevent any pressuring or undue persuasion of people by others, including the creation of new criminal offences.

[Ulysses]

1 minute ago, Psychedelicropcircle said:

Just like to say you’ve been a good poster…..see ya 🫢😀

 

I'm not ****ing gone yet, ya bollix.

 

woooooooooooo 👻

[Maple Leaf]

52 minutes ago, XB52 said:

I'm all for it but there needs to be stringent rules in place

 

Correct.

 

40 minutes ago, AlimOzturk said:

I can’t get my head around allowing someone with mental illness to choose assisted dying. To me that just seems wrong. 
 

 

 

Many Canadian politicians had similar misgivings, which is why the amendment to the existing law has been delayed for three years.  But the majority of psychiatrists who were consulted on the amendment had the following opinion. It's a copy-and-paste:

 

 an adult with the capacity to provide informed consent should be able to seek an assessment for medical assistance in dying for a severe, treatment-resistant mental disorder for which they experience intolerable suffering.

 

Please note the phrase " ... able to seek an assessment ..."  Nobody gets approved for MAID automatically.  There is a rigorous process to be followed before approval is granted.

[the posh bit]

This country doesn't do assisted living too well. 

[scott herbertson]

2 hours ago, joondalupjambo said:

Far too sensible a post for JKB FF.

 

A mate of mine, a diehard Jambo had cancer stage I am buggered.  He wanted to have no treatment and/or take a pill if it was available.  His wife, along with his Doctor both in the same room at the time talked him out of it.  He kept in touch with me during his journey and said in various conversations, and emails that not only was he having a hell of a time but why was he not offered the choice.  He died a horrible death in the end. The wife wanted him to the live to the end and the doctor was following his oath.  However nowhere in that process was he allowed to do what he wanted to do albeit he was of sound mind as he kept telling me.

  

 

That's a grim story but elements of it will be familiar to most of us. A disgrace that the sensible wishes of a majority fo the population (as indicated in polling) have not even been allowed n the democtratic testing of a proper parliamentary vote in recent years.

[JudyJudyJudy]

2 hours ago, Ulysses said:

 

Apparently the Irish Parliamentary Committee recommendation will be along exactly the lines you suggest.  A person would have to clearly express their wish, and if they couldn't express that wish then no-one else could, regardless of how sad the circumstances. It is also expected that extra safeguards will be recommended to prevent any pressuring or undue persuasion of people by others, including the creation of new criminal offences.

Thats good. It should always be the underlying principle 

[Robbo-Jambo]

On 14/03/2024 at 08:25, Ray Gin said:

Mental to me that we will end the suffering of an animal but not a fellow human.

This for me as well 

 

Inhumane.

[Joey J J Jr Shabadoo]

I'm completely in favour of assisted dying.  When my father had a ruptured aorta we had the option to stop feeding him, meaning he would die peacefully.

 

The option was my dad being brain dead for the rest of his life (he was only 62).

 

There's a good chance I'll have this, too, and I certainly don't want to live like that, so I don't see why anyone else thinks that I should. It has nothing to do with them.

[Mikey1874]

Canada 

 

45000 dead through the scheme, a lot more than they expected which is interesting, perhaps showing the scale of the issue in terms of the numbers affected.

 

They are grappling with adding poor mental health to the scheme, again suggesting its hard to avoid that coming in.

[Morgan]

I’d help some.

[Jambof3tornado]

On 14/03/2024 at 09:21, PortyJambo said:

It's something that is close to me at the moment, as my mum (84) is riddled with illnesses that she won't get any better from and says to us all the time that she's had enough and just wants to die now. She's in constant pain and in and out of hospital where they prod and poke at her for a few days, give her something that gets her a little better then she's discharged and the cycle starts again.

 

I don't want her to suffer, she doesn't want to suffer any longer. There should be a legal way to end it in a dignifying way. Everyone is suffering because we have this aim to keep people alive long past the time they would have gone if there wasn't medical intervention. We say it a kindness to end the suffering of animals, so why not humans? 

Your mum sounds like an ambulance regular from a few years back,she'd always asked to be taken to the cemetery rather than the hospital!! Sharp as a tack she was too,knew exactly what she was asking!!!

[Canscot]

I know of two people ( husband and wife) who used MAID in the last couple of years. 
They were both old and health had been failing  badly for best part of 10 years. He had early stage dementia her not. It took a few months of back and forth with doctors/assessment panels etc but eventually they were both approved. They were the parents of my wife's friend. Both mid/late eighties. 
They went within about 6 months of each other, on THEIR terms. 
There is a lot to be said for that!

I hope I have the intestinal fortitude to make that same decision if or when the time comes. 

[Spellczech]

On 14/03/2024 at 17:48, AlimOzturk said:

I agree with assisted dying but as other have alluded to, the person choosing to die must be of sound mind and a medical professional must confirm that there is no hope but only decline. 
 

I can’t get my head around allowing someone with mental illness to choose assisted dying. To me that just seems wrong. 
 

Very big questions need to be asked and answered. Will this be available on the NHS?

Does it matter if it is NHS or private? make it a charge against the person's estate? Simple truth is that the NHS spends hundreds and hundreds of millions prolonging lives...Managed properly (which is a big ask for the NHS admittedly) Right to Die could be the saviour of the NHS - there is a much greater savings potential there than in health tourists and illegals...it would be up there with good management and efficient procurement (which are probably both unattainable for the NHS)

[Spellczech]

11 hours ago, Mikey1874 said:

Canada 

 

45000 dead through the scheme, a lot more than they expected which is interesting, perhaps showing the scale of the issue in terms of the numbers affected.

 

They are grappling with adding poor mental health to the scheme, again suggesting its hard to avoid that coming in.

Not convinced personally about including mental health as a reason for Euthanasia. Mainly because the "diagnosis" of "mental health conditions" is so phooey...I haven't got any but I'm sure I'm smart enough to answer the questions in such a way that I could get myself diagnosed with several!...

[PortyJambo]

9 hours ago, Jambof3tornado said:

Your mum sounds like an ambulance regular from a few years back,she'd always asked to be taken to the cemetery rather than the hospital!! Sharp as a tack she was too,knew exactly what she was asking!!!

Yeah, that's her to a tee. Her body's failing, but the mind is still all there.

[Jambof3tornado]

On 18/03/2024 at 09:45, PortyJambo said:

Yeah, that's her to a tee. Her body's failing, but the mind is still all there.

Sometimes ponder(often chatting with patients)which is worse,having your marbles in a failing body or being fit as a fiddle but no idea who you fekkin are anymore!!!

[Gorgiewave]

Liberalism has already gone too far. Assisted dying is going even further wrong.

[Ulysses]

30 minutes ago, Jambof3tornado said:

Sometimes ponder(often chatting with patients)which is worse,having your marbles in a failing body or being fit as a fiddle but no idea who you fekkin are anymore!!!

 

I'd say that there's no value in having a healthy body if you've no idea what it's for.

[Ulysses]

28 minutes ago, Gorgiewave said:

Liberalism has already gone too far. Assisted dying is going even further wrong.

 

The "liberalism" point might belong in a discussion of its own.

 

What do you find wrong with assisted dying?

[Jambof3tornado]

1 hour ago, Ulysses said:

 

I'd say that there's no value in having a healthy body if you've no idea what it's for.

I've seen plenty folk happy with their lot without knowing who they are or what they're doing. Its a toughy,but a choice fortunately we dont get to make for ourselves. I've also worled with spinal injury patients,one chap had broken his neck after diving off a holiday yacht in the med. Could use his right arm and 3 fingers of that hand to limited effect(hold a toothbrush/cup/pint tumbler with handle!! etc). I think he'd agree he'd rather be as he was than lose his marbles but be able to walk again!!!

[Ulysses]

7 minutes ago, Jambof3tornado said:

I've seen plenty folk happy with their lot without knowing who they are or what they're doing. Its a toughy,but a choice fortunately we dont get to make for ourselves. I've also worled with spinal injury patients,one chap had broken his neck after diving off a holiday yacht in the med. Could use his right arm and 3 fingers of that hand to limited effect(hold a toothbrush/cup/pint tumbler with handle!! etc). I think he'd agree he'd rather be as he was than lose his marbles but be able to walk again!!!

 

My grandmother had dementia for about 6-7 years before she died at the age of 96.  She was content for all or most of that time.  But unfortunately that's not the way dementia goes for a lot of people.  My grandmother was in a care home, and whenever I was visiting I had to be sneaked in past one woman who also had dementia.  The staff didn't exactly know why, but my presence used to scare the poor unfortunate woman out of her wits.  Maybe it was because I reminded her of someone who scared her when she was younger, but who knows?