Assisted dying

[Jambof3tornado]

2 hours ago, Ulysses said:

 

My grandmother had dementia for about 6-7 years before she died at the age of 96.  She was content for all or most of that time.  But unfortunately that's not the way dementia goes for a lot of people.  My grandmother was in a care home, and whenever I was visiting I had to be sneaked in past one woman who also had dementia.  The staff didn't exactly know why, but my presence used to scare the poor unfortunate woman out of her wits.  Maybe it was because I reminded her of someone who scared her when she was younger, but who knows? 

I was fortunate enough to be in a care home attending a patient,big sitting room and the residents either side were chatting away to each other and I was focused on other things but it became apparent they were having 2 totally different conversations,but with each other.

I've also known families to be advised to keep visiting to a minimum with relatives suffering from dementia because it often unsettles them. Its hellish cruel sounding but often well meant.

[Ulysses]

8 minutes ago, Jambof3tornado said:

 

I've also known families to be advised to keep visiting to a minimum with relatives suffering from dementia because it often unsettles them. Its hellish cruel sounding but often well meant.

 

I can vouch for that.  

 

On the other hand...

 

I worked with someone whose sister worked in a care home.  She said that once in a while, a handful of the residents (all women) used to arrive at the door of the place and announce they were going out to some café that no-one had ever heard of for tea and cakes.  The first time it happened there was consternation among the staff, but then they devised a tactic of just keeping them chatting for 10 or 15 minutes, after which time they'd forget that they had intended to go out, and head back to their rooms or to watch TV.  Unfortunate, but kinda funny as well.   

 

 

Edited March 19 by Ulysses

[Jambof3tornado]

1 hour ago, Ulysses said:

 

I can vouch for that.  

 

On the other hand...

 

I worked with someone whose sister worked in a care home.  She said that once in a while, a handful of the residents (all women) used to arrive at the door of the place and announce they were going out to some café that no-one had ever heard of for tea and cakes.  The first time it happened there was consternation among the staff, but then they devised a tactic of just keeping them chatting for 10 or 15 minutes, after which time they'd forget that they had intended to go out, and head back to their rooms or to watch TV.  Unfortunate, but kinda funny as well.   

 

 

There's a local care home I'm in regularly and one of the residents every so often is adamant she's one of the cleaners so one day one of the cleaners gave her a duster and she happily wanders around dusting windowsills and table. The matron had to call the family in case other visitors complained and its actually in her care plan that if she's ever distressed to distract her by giving her simple cleaning tasks,if it works it works I suppose!!

[GlasgoJambo]

Good discussion. 
Assisted dying is on the surface practical and empathetic. Many people have personal experiences of horrible dragged out deaths and these stories suggest something needs to be offered as an alternative.
There’s also an ethical argument that prolonging someone’s existence with modern medical techniques just to technically still be alive is a bigger interference than assisting a “natural” death and indeed making it comfortable. 
And of course it’s liberal logic that people should be able to control their own bodies, lives and ultimately, deaths.

However, once the door is opened to assisted dying the perimeters of what fits the criteria will keep expanding under the umbrella of progressive human rights and it is very hard to roll that back. With Canada as the front runner here, I can’t deny a striking uncomfortableness with how a well received piece of legislation (envisaged by most people as a way to stop pain for the terminally ill) is already expanding to become a solution for people who think they are a burden on society or have given up on life. Thats an indictment of a society that sees death as an easier (and cheaper) option than fixing problems. 
 

In short, although it seems the (paradoxically) humane thing to do in certain situations I don’t think it is without serious ramifications.
Which is the greater good I’m undecided 🤷🏽‍♂️

 

[Maple Leaf]

2 hours ago, GlasgoJambo said:

 

However, once the door is opened to assisted dying the perimeters of what fits the criteria will keep expanding under the umbrella of progressive human rights and it is very hard to roll that back. With Canada as the front runner here, I can’t deny a striking uncomfortableness with how a well received piece of legislation (envisaged by most people as a way to stop pain for the terminally ill) is already expanding to become a solution for people who think they are a burden on society or have given up on life. Thats an indictment of a society that sees death as an easier (and cheaper) option than fixing problems. 
 

 

I should point out that expanding MAID in Canada to include mental illness is far from certain.  That legislation has been postponed twice and was recently postponed again until March 2027.  It could then be either enacted, postponed yet again, or scrapped entirely.  Advocates for or against the legislation will have ample opportunity to have their voices heard.

 

Should you feel inclined to learn more about MAID in Canada, there is an excellent website by a group called Dying with Dignity Canada that has all the information anyone needs to know to make an informed decision.

 

 

[Ulysses]

16 hours ago, Jambof3tornado said:

There's a local care home I'm in regularly and one of the residents every so often is adamant she's one of the cleaners so one day one of the cleaners gave her a duster and she happily wanders around dusting windowsills and table. The matron had to call the family in case other visitors complained and its actually in her care plan that if she's ever distressed to distract her by giving her simple cleaning tasks,if it works it works I suppose!!

 

Once the family know and approve and the person is happy and comfortable.  You have to do whatever works.

[Ulysses]

The Irish report is due for release today.  There are three dissenting members of the Parliamentary Committee who have decided to issue their own alternative report and in effect campaign against the majority report of the Committee. 

[New Town Loafer]

A very difficult one, regarding an incredibly emotive subject. Rather like the abortion debate in many ways.

 

I am in favour of people in pain, distress etc. being able to choose to end their lives. I worry, however, about the way in which they could be coerced/manipulated.

[Maple Leaf]

10 minutes ago, New Town Loafer said:

A very difficult one, regarding an incredibly emotive subject. Rather like the abortion debate in many ways.

 

I am in favour of people in pain, distress etc. being able to choose to end their lives. I worry, however, about the way in which they could be coerced/manipulated.

That is certainly a concern, which is why any assisted dying assessment process has to take that possibility into consideration.

[New Town Loafer]

1 hour ago, Maple Leaf said:

That is certainly a concern, which is why any assisted dying assessment process has to take that possibility into consideration.

Yep. There is a parliamentary reception at Holyrood on this topic next week.