braveheart Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 Hamilton 10 points on front of 3rd and 15 points behind falkirk.if ever a team could give a loan signing half an hour then it's them.better staying in the lowland league and scoring for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brownkg Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 The loan certainly has not worked out for him or us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Treasurer Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 Is there an option to recall him before the end of the season Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert McFly Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 He'll never play for Hearts first team why do you think they sent him there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buster HMFC Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 12 minutes ago, Albert McFly said: He'll never play for Hearts first team why do you think they sent him there You mystic meg pal aye Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smithian Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 Disaster of a loan for Kirk but he is too young to close the book on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankblack Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 27 minutes ago, The Treasurer said: Is there an option to recall him before the end of the season Don't think we would be able to play him at any level if we did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert McFly Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 13 minutes ago, Buster HMFC said: You mystic meg pal aye He's not good enough why do you think we let him go on loan to a L1 side at the age of 20 with his contract coming to an end Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Buck Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 35 minutes ago, Albert McFly said: He'll never play for Hearts first team why do you think they sent him there He’s already played for Hearts first team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobNox Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 25 minutes ago, Albert McFly said: He's not good enough why do you think we let him go on loan to a L1 side at the age of 20 with his contract coming to an end Because L1 is a step up from the Lowland League, where he was tearing it up. Clearly too good for that league so no point leaving him in the B team. Unfortunately the loan doesn't seem to be working out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dsjambo Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 We have had players on loan ourselves and not played them, it happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soonbe110 Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 50 minutes ago, RobNox said: Because L1 is a step up from the Lowland League, where he was tearing it up. Clearly too good for that league so no point leaving him in the B team. Unfortunately the loan doesn't seem to be working out. He is being kept out of Accies team by Euan Henderson. Euan had plenty of opportunities with us but clearly wasn’t good enough. Sadly the same will be said of Kirk. If he can’t get game time in tier 3 at 20 years old he isnt going to make it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bongo 1874 Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 13 minutes ago, soonbe110 said: He is being kept out of Accies team by Euan Henderson. Euan had plenty of opportunities with us but clearly wasn’t good enough. Sadly the same will be said of Kirk. If he can’t get game time in tier 3 at 20 years old he isnt going to make it. That's nonsense all players develop at different stages,i wrote off Grant and Forrest look at them now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irufushi Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 If he’s being kept out of the team by Henderson then he’s best getting his Tesco job application filled in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingantti1874 Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 Any loans should come with guaranteed minutes or penalty clauses Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King prawn Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 4 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said: Any loans should come with guaranteed minutes or penalty clauses i'm pretty sure that's how poppadom hands played so many games for us Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deevers Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 Needs to be recalled now. It’s not working for either party. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Cockade Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 seen a couple of B team games and he’s a good finisher but very lightweight Not ready for our first team and obviously Hamilton think he’s not ready for theirs so at age 20 he’s got maybe another year to prove himself or he’s going to struggle to make it at the top level imo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 15 minutes ago, Irufushi said: If he’s being kept out of the team by Henderson then he’s best getting his Tesco job application filled in. Kept out of the team by this guy signed after Kirk arrived. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 35 minutes ago, soonbe110 said: He is being kept out of Accies team by Euan Henderson. Euan had plenty of opportunities with us but clearly wasn’t good enough. Sadly the same will be said of Kirk. If he can’t get game time in tier 3 at 20 years old he isnt going to make it. ??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Card Ref Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 2 minutes ago, The White Cockade said: seen a couple of B team games and he’s a good finisher but very lightweight Not ready for our first team and obviously Hamilton think he’s not ready for theirs so at age 20 he’s got maybe another year to prove himself or he’s going to struggle to make it at the top level imo Cheers 👍 Was just about to ask for a balanced view from someone who has actually watched him. I've read on here before that despite his goal ratio, he was very raw in other aspects of his game. All I've seen is highlights of him banging in goals for the B team. Would love to see him make it, especially with his Dad being who he is. Worried he's another Aidan Keena type tho 😕 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soonbe110 Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 10 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said: ??? Hendo has been getting minutes ahead of Kirk most weeks since Kirk joined them. . Has started a number of games as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OTT Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 21 minutes ago, The White Cockade said: seen a couple of B team games and he’s a good finisher but very lightweight Not ready for our first team and obviously Hamilton think he’s not ready for theirs so at age 20 he’s got maybe another year to prove himself or he’s going to struggle to make it at the top level imo That sounds very fixable though? If his other attributes are solid - positioning, reading of the game, link up play, then get him hitting the gym like a man man over the summer. I've noticed Aidan Denholm looks pretty bulky despite only being the same age too, so its not an insurmountable hurdle for him - although I assume the club are developing him in the way that best suits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Cockade Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 28 minutes ago, OTT said: That sounds very fixable though? If his other attributes are solid - positioning, reading of the game, link up play, then get him hitting the gym like a man man over the summer. I've noticed Aidan Denholm looks pretty bulky despite only being the same age too, so its not an insurmountable hurdle for him - although I assume the club are developing him in the way that best suits. hope so we need strikers but to be honest i’m not sure he’s going to be first team material with us but fingers crossed as he can certainly hit the back of the net Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Berry Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 If Kirk had remained with the B team he'd be nudging 40 goals by now. He's a natural goalscorer and is instinctive inside the box. Sadly his loan move has not worked out for whatever reason, that doesn't make him any less of a prospect. He needs another year out on loan where he's getting proper game time as he has nothing left to prove with the B team. He's still very young. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bongo 1874 Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 Boys a player great attitude,hope he makes it with us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jager man Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 7 hours ago, Smithian said: Disaster of a loan for Kirk but he is too young to close the book on. Let's find out . Top players will learn from this. It's up to him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Berry Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 https://www.heartsfc.co.uk/blogs/news/kirk-signs-new-deal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sooperstar Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 7 minutes ago, Chuck Berry said: https://www.heartsfc.co.uk/blogs/news/kirk-signs-new-deal Who is the 43 year old in the picture? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bongo 1874 Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 😀🫡. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loveofthegame Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 Disappointing loan spell but we'd be daft to let a kid go who scored that number of goals in half a season, when goalscorers have been hard to come by for decades at the club. Low cost, low risk extension with option of a further year. All for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Berry Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 I don't think he can play for the B team next season due to age, not that he will learn much more playing in the Lowland League. Season long loan I expect like Lewis Neilson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colinmaroon Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 23 minutes ago, loveofthegame said: Disappointing loan spell but we'd be daft to let a kid go who scored that number of goals in half a season, when goalscorers have been hard to come by for decades at the club. Low cost, low risk extension with option of a further year. All for it. The point is being made as to leaving 'B' League upgrade, the star is going to be bench warming, very frustrating. Real wisdom in letting him experience it away from Hearts. Next season. I hope he makes the bench at Hearts and gets his chance. We may well be without Shanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sooks Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 See if you can hit those sort of numbers , and it is down to being lightweight that you are not making an impact ? Then I think it is good idea to persevere . 20 years old ? Not the age to be giving up on prolific goal scorers , when their lesser attributes can be worked on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soonbe110 Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 1 hour ago, Chuck Berry said: I don't think he can play for the B team next season due to age, not that he will learn much more playing in the Lowland League. Season long loan I expect like Lewis Neilson. Either that or we have made him a contract offer to ensure we get some sort of development fee and he has signed it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A_A wehatethehibs Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 2 minutes ago, Sooks said: See if you can hit those sort of numbers , and it is down to being lightweight that you are not making an impact ? Then I think it is good idea to persevere . 20 years old ? Not the age to be giving up on prolific goal scorers , when their lesser attributes can be worked on We persevered with Euan Henderson for a long time. Unfortunately we can’t keep guys who, bottom line, they simply need those 3-4-5 seasons out there in league 1 / up to championship, learning their trade, before they’re ready to even have a go in the Premiership if they kick on. Let alone play for one of the biggest clubs. Thats hendo just about ready now to have a go in the Premiership. In terms of our first team, he actually left our squad 3 years ago with his loans which helped him to win his permanent move. Thats took him 3 full seasons to reach consistent championship standard which is still well well below Hearts standard. We’ve brought in Kenneth Vargas from the transfer market, 1 year older than Kirk but absolutely streets ahead of him in terms of level. That’s why it’s tough for young guys coming through. Hearts have the power to get real quality from the global and national transfer market. Good on the club giving Kirk an extension, if at first you don’t succeed, try again. And he’s not just trying to win a first team spot at Hearts, we are looking to help the boy get a pro career, even if it’s not Hearts. That’s a big part of our academy, it’s not all about Hearts first team, but helping to get a pro career for as many of these lads as possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corstorphine Jambo Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 Firstly, I have never seen the lad play for the B Team so I'm not claiming to be best placed to judge him. My thoughts are anyone scoring that number of goals in that league must be doing something right. Sure, he would in the first team be playing against far superior defenders, but he should be (better be!) getting better service too. Naismith must see something he reckons may improve over the next 12 months - we're investing in potential. I wish the lad well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Berry Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 38 minutes ago, soonbe110 said: Either that or we have made him a contract offer to ensure we get some sort of development fee and he has signed it. We would still get a fee regardless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Berry Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 14 minutes ago, A_A wehatethehibs said: We’ve brought in Kenneth Vargas from the transfer market, 1 year older than Kirk but absolutely streets ahead of him in terms of level. How many times have you seen Kirk play? If you give Kirk the first team opportunities in a years time when he's a year older then who knows what level he'd be at. From what I've seen, Kirk is a better finisher than Vargas, although Vargas is getting the benefit of first team football whilst he improves his game. Kirk may make it, he may not, but let's not write him off just as he signs a new contract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
db211833 Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 7 minutes ago, Chuck Berry said: We would still get a fee regardless. You sure on that? There are rules around contracts and development fees which is why we didn't end up having to pay Dundee United for Neilson as they messed up with his contract offer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambo in Bathgate Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 On 09/03/2024 at 20:22, Red Card Ref said: Cheers 👍 Was just about to ask for a balanced view from someone who has actually watched him. I've read on here before that despite his goal ratio, he was very raw in other aspects of his game. All I've seen is highlights of him banging in goals for the B team. Would love to see him make it, especially with his Dad being who he is. Worried he's another Aidan Keena type tho 😕 It’s called tough love! He was a shoe in for the B team but at Hamilton he has to compete and take not getting picked on the chin. He has to learn that there are downsides to football. That was best learnt away from Hearts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selkirkhmfc1874 Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 Shown he knows where the net is on the B team, next step for him is to show he can do it at 1st team level if given the chance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
db211833 Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 10 minutes ago, Chuck Berry said: We would still get a fee regardless. Found the article. You have to protect your right to a development fee apparently. https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hearts/hearts-sign-lewis-neilson-and-insist-he-is-a-free-transfer-from-dundee-united-3725911 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Berry Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 (edited) 7 minutes ago, db211833 said: You sure on that? There are rules around contracts and development fees which is why we didn't end up having to pay Dundee United for Neilson as they messed up with his contract offer. Fairly sure. It's not a straightforward process eg a player can be in his last 6 months and accept an offer at another club on day 1 of that 6 month period before his parent club have the chance to make an offer. I think if they subsequently make an offer before the contracts expires even if its rejected, then that protects the development fee. No idea what the circumstances were with Neilson. Edited March 18 by Chuck Berry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PapaShango Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 Seems a sensible move, hopefully they get a better loan move for him next season as it clearly hasn't worked out at Accies for him for whatever reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigAlim Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 I think Hamilton just have quite a few strikers of their own. The move never made sense for that reason imo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soonbe110 Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 55 minutes ago, A_A wehatethehibs said: We persevered with Euan Henderson for a long time. Unfortunately we can’t keep guys who, bottom line, they simply need those 3-4-5 seasons out there in league 1 / up to championship, learning their trade, before they’re ready to even have a go in the Premiership if they kick on. Let alone play for one of the biggest clubs. Thats hendo just about ready now to have a go in the Premiership. In terms of our first team, he actually left our squad 3 years ago with his loans which helped him to win his permanent move. Thats took him 3 full seasons to reach consistent championship standard which is still well well below Hearts standard. We’ve brought in Kenneth Vargas from the transfer market, 1 year older than Kirk but absolutely streets ahead of him in terms of level. That’s why it’s tough for young guys coming through. Hearts have the power to get real quality from the global and national transfer market. Good on the club giving Kirk an extension, if at first you don’t succeed, try again. And he’s not just trying to win a first team spot at Hearts, we are looking to help the boy get a pro career, even if it’s not Hearts. That’s a big part of our academy, it’s not all about Hearts first team, but helping to get a pro career for as many of these lads as possible. Hendo can’t get a regular start for Hamilton in tier 3. Don’t think many Premiership or even championship clubs will be queuing up to sign him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soonbe110 Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 42 minutes ago, Chuck Berry said: We would still get a fee regardless. Not so. We have to make him a contract offer on terms at least the same as his current contract or we lose the right to a dev fee. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Berry Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 3 minutes ago, soonbe110 said: Not so. We have to make him a contract offer on terms at least the same as his current contract or we lose the right to a dev fee. That's correct, I worded it poorly. It doesn't need to be before another club makes an offer, as long as the offer is made before the expiry of the current contract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A_A wehatethehibs Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 41 minutes ago, Chuck Berry said: How many times have you seen Kirk play? If you give Kirk the first team opportunities in a years time when he's a year older then who knows what level he'd be at. From what I've seen, Kirk is a better finisher than Vargas, although Vargas is getting the benefit of first team football whilst he improves his game. Kirk may make it, he may not, but let's not write him off just as he signs a new contract. Cammy Ross is the 2nd top scorer in the same league. Shall we go out and buy him from Tranent and give him the “benefit” of first team minutes? 16 goals in 28 games, good goalscoring rate, I guess that makes him “a better finisher” than Vargas too? The fact is, scoring goals in a part time football level, while good for the lad and his confidence, is basically meaningless in the context of the Heart of Midlothian First Team. What we’re seeing is that clearly the lowland league is a level below Kirk’s talent, he and others are too good for that level. We already know that though. That’s no less than you’d expect. Playing at that level is just about getting adapted physically to playing against grown men. But now, it’s about finding the right loan move for him as I think all are agreed hamilton was not the right move. Brave of him to have a go at stepping a massive upward gulf in class from lowland league to league 1, so he will learn a lot about the work he now has to put in. Good luck to him & will watch with interest. 6 minutes ago, soonbe110 said: Hendo can’t get a regular start for Hamilton in tier 3. Don’t think many Premiership or even championship clubs will be queuing up to sign him Tbqh I forgot they’d gone down I actually thought they were in the championship. He has 8 goals and 5 assists from 25 games tho which isn’t bad? Looked a lot better when I thought it was championship mind Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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