Rampant Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 2 hours ago, Sir PH said: A snapshot? Killie have consistently performed well against the Old Firm in the last 5 years or so. It's not been a one-off. Have they? This season's results have been excellent, yes. At a glance at Wikipedia, admittedly: 2022/23: Lost every game to the OF 2021/22: didn't play them because they'd been relegated 2020/21: 1 result, a draw against celtic 2019/20: 1 result, a win against Rangers 2018/19: another excellent season particularly against Rangers You have to go back 5 years before they last had an enviable record against the Old Firm. And as others have pointed out, would rather not swap places with them this season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlad Magic Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 4 hours ago, Sir PH said: You might want to check Killie's record against the Old Firm over the last few years, and not just this season.👍 You were saying? 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir PH Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 52 minutes ago, karipidis said: There home form is incredible, has been for the last 2 years. The away form has been better this season, but to say they are getting loads of results away to the Old Firm is not correct. We have had more points than them away to the Old Firm in the last 5 years. I never said they were getting loads of away results against the Old Firm. But over the piece, they do far better against them than we do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir PH Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 19 minutes ago, Vlad Magic said: You were saying? 👍 I was saying you should check their record over a few years, and not just this season. It's better than ours.👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir PH Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 29 minutes ago, Rampant said: Have they? This season's results have been excellent, yes. At a glance at Wikipedia, admittedly: 2022/23: Lost every game to the OF 2021/22: didn't play them because they'd been relegated 2020/21: 1 result, a draw against celtic 2019/20: 1 result, a win against Rangers 2018/19: another excellent season particularly against Rangers You have to go back 5 years before they last had an enviable record against the Old Firm. And as others have pointed out, would rather not swap places with them this season. It's better than ours, though. And that's the argument. Killie's record against Rangers is particularly good, whereas our's is horrendous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malinga the Swinga Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 1 hour ago, Wee Mikey said: See below. I've already posted this and had to explain the logic of looking over a decent number of years so as not to simply highlight a distortion due to whatever factors such as a particular manager, something that's affected the more dominant team, and so on. The narrower the timeframe the more likely that results will vary from the norm. Yes, Killies record is similar to ours. I couldn't see any difference between how they approach the Glasgow duo and their approach v Hearts. We've managed to find a way to deal with that. Also, their signing policy lends itself to how they approach playing v The Rangers, Celtic, and us. Giant technically limited huddies who can do a good job of shutting up shop, playing for set pieces, and falling over at the slightest touch. I'm going to say that our upturn in results v Killie has been due to having more gifted players plus Naismith figuring out how to best them. Crikey! Naisy even used Lowry as a tactical sub to sink them. Lol. I'd say quite the opposite and suggest that without it we would've spanked them red raw and their results v the Glasgow duo would not have been so decent. Wow! If our rotten record beats their apparently really good one? Perception, maybe? F.A.O. Vlad Magic 👇 Damn facts getting in way of PH's argument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watt-Zeefuik Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 Aye, to be Killie, who haven't lost 5-0 in Glasgow since <checks notes> last season when they lost to Celtic by that exact score. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruyff Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 It's good to get a wee reminder that we're not quite at that level yet and need to up our game, especially before Hibs and Celtic. I feel that was a wee kick up the arse we probably needed. Normally I'd be fuming at a 5-0 spanking at Ibrox but given how good we've been you can't be too negative. These things happen. Rangers are very strong at the moment after going top, they played a perfect game especially press and tempo and we couldn't deal with it. They were bigger, stronger, faster and reacted quicker to everything all over the park. They'll win the league this season and Clement will prove to be a top coach. However, I thoroughly expect us to react, up our levels and ragdoll Hibs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir PH Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 1 hour ago, Watt-Zeefuik said: Aye, to be Killie, who haven't lost 5-0 in Glasgow since <checks notes> last season when they lost to Celtic by that exact score. Which absolutely nobody said didn't happen. Anything else? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir PH Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 2 hours ago, Malinga the Swinga said: Damn facts getting in way of PH's argument. Facts like Killie have taken far more points from the Old Firm than we have recently? Those kind of facts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlad Magic Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 3 minutes ago, Sir PH said: Facts like Killie have taken far more points from the Old Firm than we have recently? Those kind of facts? Define recently? Recently could be anything? We took all 3 points off Celtic at Park Head “recently”? Dude just give this one up. It’s a valiant effort but this one is lost. Worst of all even if their stats backed you up you have taken one team as your basis for stats where is there are far more teams in the league. The whole discussion “off topic” was on mindset. Mindset isn’t set aside for one team to then be scrutinised and then used as evidence. What you are attempting “badly” is using one teams fluke performances (and even then ours are better) as evidence in a badly concocted argument to discredit Hearts performances V the OF. Why only you know however my advice again is “give it up”. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pasquale for King Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 I have a feeling that If they get a fair crack of the whip that Killie will get a result on Saturday against Rangers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir PH Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Vlad Magic said: Define recently? Recently could be anything? We took all 3 points off Celtic at Park Head “recently”? Dude just give this one up. It’s a valiant effort but this one is lost. Worst of all even if their stats backed you up you have taken one team as your basis for stats where is there are far more teams in the league. The whole discussion “off topic” was on mindset. Mindset isn’t set aside for one team to then be scrutinised and then used as evidence. What you are attempting “badly” is using one teams fluke performances (and even then ours are better) as evidence in a badly concocted argument to discredit Hearts performances V the OF. Why only you know however my advice again is “give it up”. Last five years? Last 10 years? Or will we just take it from our victory at Parkhead onwards? "Fluke performances"? Really? They must have been helluva flukey to take so many points from the Old Firm. Edited February 27 by Sir PH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir PH Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 Just now, Pasquale for King said: I have a feeling that If they get a fair crack of the whip that Killie will get a result on Saturday against Rangers. Kilmarnock don't play Rangers on Saturday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunder and Lightning Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 8 hours ago, Vlad Magic said: Don’t give 2 shites about their record over the last “few” years. Their record over the last 50 will be much in a muchness to the rest. Shite. Maybe the last 50 years is the same and they recently changed mindset? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watt-Zeefuik Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 41 minutes ago, Sir PH said: Which absolutely nobody said didn't happen. Anything else? The point is that Killie have had an exceptionally good year against the OF but there's no indication that they or McInnes have any kind of special sauce when it comes to going to Glasgow to get a result aside from some good days on the park and a bit of luck. The latest 5-0 is not an indication on a lack of fight on our part. It is not an indication of a poor player mentality. It is not an indication of a lack of ambition of the club. It is not a shortcoming that other clubs have figured out a way around that we need to go study. It is not a sign of being scared of the OF. It's a day when our play was off and we got our tactics wrong and Rangers were in fine fettle and it happened. It just happens sometimes when your resources are that outmatched. Is it acceptable? No! How do we keep it from happening again? We build up our finances slowly year over year with commercial business, player trading, European trips, and maybe one day a bigger stadium, and in the meantime try to do a bit better at developing the squad. Things we're already doing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir PH Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 17 minutes ago, Watt-Zeefuik said: The point is that Killie have had an exceptionally good year against the OF but there's no indication that they or McInnes have any kind of special sauce when it comes to going to Glasgow to get a result aside from some good days on the park and a bit of luck. The latest 5-0 is not an indication on a lack of fight on our part. It is not an indication of a poor player mentality. It is not an indication of a lack of ambition of the club. It is not a shortcoming that other clubs have figured out a way around that we need to go study. It is not a sign of being scared of the OF. It's a day when our play was off and we got our tactics wrong and Rangers were in fine fettle and it happened. It just happens sometimes when your resources are that outmatched. Is it acceptable? No! How do we keep it from happening again? We build up our finances slowly year over year with commercial business, player trading, European trips, and maybe one day a bigger stadium, and in the meantime try to do a bit better at developing the squad. Things we're already doing. No, they've had a very good 5 or so years, especially against Rangers. And on far less of a budget than Hearts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carter Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 No real desire to get involved in this but Kilmarnock have clearly done well against OF this season. Beat Celtic at home twice and drawn at Parkhead as well as beating Rangers at home. McInnes doesn't appear to succumb to the concession of early goals/capitulation to either which has commonly be an affliction of ours. They also failed very well against the uglies under Steve Clarke, another where organisation was a key factor and they didn't collapse after going behind early. There is clearly a huge financial gap between us and them. But the gap is bigger still to the likes of Kilmarnock. There does seem to be a psychological factor with Hearts against Rangers & Celtic. We should be capable of being organised and difficult to break down. It was the same in Europe last season under Neilson. Loss of a goal inside 10 mins in a big game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watt-Zeefuik Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 1 hour ago, Sir PH said: No, they've had a very good 5 or so years, especially against Rangers. And on far less of a budget than Hearts. They had an exceptional year in 2018 against Rangers, certainly. Between that year and this it's 1W8L. In 2018-2019, they went 2W2D2L, which is pretty great considering, although one of those losses was 5-0. Including this season it looks like 4W2D12L if I'm counting right, vs. 2W2D13L for us. Yeah, it's better, but I don't know if I call that "very good." That 2018-2019 Rangers team was really nothing all that special and only managed to beat Aberdeen twice in seven tries. (Yet another reason it sucks beyond measure that we were so shit in that interval, those 2016-2019 OF squads were just total shit compared to what they are now but we were too poor to take advantage.) Anyway, I still don't see a lot to be mooning at. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tazio Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 Damn, they’ve all vanished again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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