Sir PH Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 4 hours ago, dannymack said: Where have you been for the last 50 odd years and more... getting scudded from Rangers at Ibrox is not something new, it's been happening for decades. And it's that mindset that will ensure it continues for the next 50 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazo Posted February 26 Author Share Posted February 26 4 hours ago, Sir PH said: And it's that mindset that will ensure it continues for the next 50 years. How does a fans mindset reflect what happens on the pitch ? It’s your mindset that is made up bollox to have a go at other fans. The fact is budgets generally dictate the quality of player and staff within the club. It will be that difference that with the odd exception that ensures things will continue not made up mindsets about the fans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir PH Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 Just now, Dazo said: How does a fans mindset reflect what happens on the pitch ? It’s your mindset that is made up bollox to have a go at other fans. The fact is budgets generally dictate the quality of player and staff within the club. It will be that difference that with the odd exception that ensures things will continue not made up mindsets about the fans. It meant that the players have the same mindset. They see the sign for Glasgow at Harthill and they seem to soil themselves. You can shout about budgets all day long, but losing a goal in the first few minutes (how many times do we see that when we play at Parkhead or Ibrox?) and going on to lose 5-0 has a lot to do with mental strength and not a lot to do with budgets. The money thing is a handy comfort blanket though, so no doubt it will keep being used. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Panzee Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 16 minutes ago, Sir PH said: It meant that the players have the same mindset. They see the sign for Glasgow at Harthill and they seem to soil themselves. You can shout about budgets all day long, but losing a goal in the first few minutes (how many times do we see that when we play at Parkhead or Ibrox?) and going on to lose 5-0 has a lot to do with mental strength and not a lot to do with budgets. The money thing is a handy comfort blanket though, so no doubt it will keep being used. why do the uglies spend millions and millions year in year out on players? if it's just a mindset, then they could save a fortune and bring in freebies and just instruct said players to "not be scared".? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazo Posted February 26 Author Share Posted February 26 16 minutes ago, Sir PH said: It meant that the players have the same mindset. They see the sign for Glasgow at Harthill and they seem to soil themselves. You can shout about budgets all day long, but losing a goal in the first few minutes (how many times do we see that when we play at Parkhead or Ibrox?) and going on to lose 5-0 has a lot to do with mental strength and not a lot to do with budgets. The money thing is a handy comfort blanket though, so no doubt it will keep being used. Players mostly don’t have the same mindset though, they are professionals who want to win. If budgets are used to crucify the club for finishing 4th why shouldn’t it be used as acceptance in the difference in quality between us and Glasgow ? Acknowledging that doesn’t mean I accept getting beat 5-0 but it is a glaring reason for it whether you personally accept that or not. On the football side though chucking a goal in after 2 minutes regardless of budgets isn’t acceptable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazo Posted February 26 Author Share Posted February 26 5 minutes ago, Jim Panzee said: why do the uglies spend millions and millions year in year out on players? if it's just a mindset, then they could save a fortune and bring in freebies and just instruct said players to "not be scared".? Some of our supporters want it both ways unfortunately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wee Mikey Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 3 minutes ago, Dazo said: Some of our supporters want it both ways unfortunately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex member of the SaS Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 Finances mean they can afford better players, there is no disputing that, But why did we play so poorly after such a long spell of wins? I would suggest the wins were not as comfortable as some appear to make them. We really need to get third on a regular basis before we can afford players who will thump ( for example ) Killie and the likes. At present we are slightly above the rest in regards to finances and it shows in most games but we are a long way away from the gap required to beat teams in the manner the bigots do at present. The board have to see we require investment in the team to get third regularly and leave vanity projects for when we are well ahead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carter Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 59 minutes ago, Dazo said: How does a fans mindset reflect what happens on the pitch ? It’s your mindset that is made up bollox to have a go at other fans. The fact is budgets generally dictate the quality of player and staff within the club. It will be that difference that with the odd exception that ensures things will continue not made up mindsets about the fans. Do you believe there is a trend of us losing early goals in games against Rangers and Celtic? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir PH Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 42 minutes ago, Jim Panzee said: why do the uglies spend millions and millions year in year out on players? if it's just a mindset, then they could save a fortune and bring in freebies and just instruct said players to "not be scared".? Nobody is expecting to go there and win every time. But how many games is it finished before half time? And that includes games against them at Tynecastle. It's not solely down to budgets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boag1874 Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 31 minutes ago, Ex member of the SaS said: Finances mean they can afford better players, there is no disputing that, But why did we play so poorly after such a long spell of wins? I would suggest the wins were not as comfortable as some appear to make them. We really need to get third on a regular basis before we can afford players who will thump ( for example ) Killie and the likes. At present we are slightly above the rest in regards to finances and it shows in most games but we are a long way away from the gap required to beat teams in the manner the bigots do at present. The board have to see we require investment in the team to get third regularly and leave vanity projects for when we are well ahead. The wins were largely very comfortable. We were barely even troubled barring against Dundee - yesterday we got steamrolled but lets not retcon what happened prior, we're where we are on merit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fozzyonthefence Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 1 hour ago, Dazo said: It’s your mindset that is made up bollox to have a go at other fans. From the guy who created a new thread to have a go at other fans! 😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sicknote Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 I prefer to wait a day or two after a game like that. lol. My take is that Stevie will have learnt a lot about his players, as much as we did not enjoy it, much was learnt. There were a number of our senior players who looked panicked and unassured in that environment. Those are the guys who won't win you cups or take you to the next level in the league when playing a reputedly "bigger" teams. So yes, as Shyte as it was, I hope Naismith and co will have learned much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PortyBeach Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 23 hours ago, Sir PH said: It meant that the players have the same mindset. They see the sign for Glasgow at Harthill and they seem to soil themselves. You can shout about budgets all day long, but losing a goal in the first few minutes (how many times do we see that when we play at Parkhead or Ibrox?) and going on to lose 5-0 has a lot to do with mental strength and not a lot to do with budgets. The money thing is a handy comfort blanket though, so no doubt it will keep being used. Absolutely. I said on another thread that we needed warriors out there on Saturday and we got the reverse. Naismith quoted in the “Evening News”: ”…we always knew they would start fast…They were really aggressive in their press and we didn't deal with that well enough which led to us giving up chances.” So, we knew they’d come tearing out the blocks and yet we still contrived to concede a goal within two minutes? They were “aggressive” - and we don’t “deal with it” Big questions for management and players to address. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlad Magic Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 I’m sure there are hundreds of lightweight boxers out there more than capable of knocking out a few heavyweights if they just had a better mindset. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fozzyonthefence Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 5 minutes ago, Vlad Magic said: I’m sure there are hundreds of lightweight boxers out there more than capable of knocking out a few heavyweights if they just had a better mindset. Like Killie maybe? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir PH Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 4 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said: Like Killie maybe? Ouch! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlad Magic Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 2 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said: Like Killie maybe? Yeah like Killie and fair play to them. Theres always going to be the odd one every season that gets lucky. We got lucky V Celtic recently. Play that game 20 times over and over we win 1 maybe 2. Like the lightweight landing a fluke punch once in 10 fights. This mindset bollocks is just the latest buzzword. It’s get feck all to to with mindset. The OF statistically beat us and the rest of the league at least 9 out of 10 attempts. In some cases 20 or more. Mindset my arse. Sooner people realise it’s to do with money and said money buying you higher quality players and not voodoo mindset bollocks the better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir PH Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 2 minutes ago, Vlad Magic said: Yeah like Killie and fair play to them. Theres always going to be the odd one every season that gets lucky. We got lucky V Celtic recently. Play that game 20 times over and over we win 1 maybe 2. Like the lightweight landing a fluke punch once in 10 fights. This mindset bollocks is just the latest buzzword. It’s get feck all to to with mindset. The OF statistically beat us and the rest of the league at least 9 out of 10 attempts. In some cases 20 or more. Mindset my arse. Sooner people realise it’s to do with money and said money buying you higher quality players and not voodoo mindset bollocks the better. You might want to check Killie's record against the Old Firm over the last few years, and not just this season.👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlad Magic Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 1 minute ago, Sir PH said: You might want to check Killie's record against the Old Firm over the last few years, and not just this season.👍 Don’t give 2 shites about their record over the last “few” years. Their record over the last 50 will be much in a muchness to the rest. Shite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir PH Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 Just now, Vlad Magic said: Don’t give 2 shites about their record over the last “few” years. Their record over the last 50 will be much in a muchness to the rest. Shite. Brilliant.😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazo Posted February 27 Author Share Posted February 27 Aye I wish we were as good as Killie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlad Magic Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 I see Brentford have changed their mindset since wallowing in the lower leagues for all of their history. Nothing to do with the 100’s of million of investment from Matthew Benham. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fozzyonthefence Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 22 minutes ago, Dazo said: Aye I wish we were as good as Killie. Against the OF? Of course I do. Only a complete moron wouldn’t want more points against them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir PH Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 28 minutes ago, Dazo said: Aye I wish we were as good as Killie. Especially against the Old Firm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fozzyonthefence Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 (edited) 53 minutes ago, Vlad Magic said: Yeah like Killie and fair play to them. Theres always going to be the odd one every season that gets lucky. We got lucky V Celtic recently. Play that game 20 times over and over we win 1 maybe 2. Like the lightweight landing a fluke punch once in 10 fights. This mindset bollocks is just the latest buzzword. It’s get feck all to to with mindset. The OF statistically beat us and the rest of the league at least 9 out of 10 attempts. In some cases 20 or more. Mindset my arse. Sooner people realise it’s to do with money and said money buying you higher quality players and not voodoo mindset bollocks the better. It’s not just about mindset, although it’s clearly very important, and it’s not just about money either, although that’s also very important. Killie seem to have got lucky against the OF 4 times this season. That’s incredibly “lucky”. We should maybe be looking at why they are able to do that instead of looking for excuses as to why we can’t. And I’m sure our manager will be, I’m sure he’ll learn from Saturday. And the players that don’t learn from it will likely find themselves on the sidelines. Queue the simpletons tag team with their “they try harder against us” mantra ……. Edited February 27 by Fozzyonthefence Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir PH Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 22 minutes ago, Vlad Magic said: I see Brentford have changed their mindset since wallowing in the lower leagues for all of their history. Nothing to do with the 100’s of million of investment from Matthew Benham. I see you're conveniently ignoring Killie's record against the Old Firm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlad Magic Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 3 minutes ago, Sir PH said: I see you're conveniently ignoring Killie's record against the Old Firm. Not at all. If their mindset is winning them games regularly V the OF. Why aren’t they top of the league? Whats going on the rest of the games in a season? Money wins games and therefore leagues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fozzyonthefence Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 2 minutes ago, Vlad Magic said: Not at all. If their mindset is winning them games regularly V the OF. Why aren’t they top of the league? Whats going on the rest of the games in a season? Money wins games and therefore leagues. You need to set up differently in these games. You need a tactically astute manager but more importantly players that can carry out his instructions without multiple brain farts. We saw that when we beat Celtic 2-0 and the 2-1 at Ibrox, bar the last few minutes, so hopefully like Killie it is something we’re going to do more regularly. Their record against the OF this season is astonishing for such a small club with much less resources than us or Hibs or Aberdeen and should be admired, not scoffed at (not you I’m referring to there). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazo Posted February 27 Author Share Posted February 27 16 minutes ago, Sir PH said: Especially against the Old Firm. Results against the old firm don’t define our season. The humping last week wasn’t good enough I’m just not sure it’s worth losing sleep over and certainly not worth wishing we were like Killie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazo Posted February 27 Author Share Posted February 27 24 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said: Against the OF? Of course I do. Only a complete moron wouldn’t want more points against them. I’d think only a moron would use a snapshot of another teams season to get all jealous about. It’s a league season against many other teams excuse for not getting misty eyed over a team that is consistently behind us but manages to raise their game every now and then against the OF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fozzyonthefence Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 (edited) 18 minutes ago, Dazo said: Results against the old firm don’t define our season. The humping last week wasn’t good enough I’m just not sure it’s worth losing sleep over and certainly not worth wishing we were like Killie. No, results against the OF don’t define our season but as many pointed out before Saturday’s game it was a great chance to test where we were at, to see if we were progressing / getting closer to them. We failed dismally and while many of us maybe expected to lose I don’t think many saw a 5-0 coming. I don’t wish we were Killie but I do wish we could emulate their results against the OF, don’t you? A bit weird for any Hearts fan not to want that. It’s not just one humping, our record against the OF in recent seasons is embarrassing. Edited February 27 by Fozzyonthefence Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir PH Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 14 minutes ago, Dazo said: I’d think only a moron would use a snapshot of another teams season to get all jealous about. It’s a league season against many other teams excuse for not getting misty eyed over a team that is consistently behind us but manages to raise their game every now and then against the OF. A snapshot? Killie have consistently performed well against the Old Firm in the last 5 years or so. It's not been a one-off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir PH Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 29 minutes ago, Vlad Magic said: Not at all. If their mindset is winning them games regularly V the OF. Why aren’t they top of the league? Whats going on the rest of the games in a season? Money wins games and therefore leagues. His whole approach against the Old Firm will be different to what it is against the other teams in the league. And it seems to be working. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karipidis Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 1 minute ago, Sir PH said: A snapshot? Killie have consistently performed well against the Old Firm in the last 5 years or so. It's not been a one-off. Should we get a horrendous plastic pitch to give us an advantage? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir PH Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 1 minute ago, karipidis said: Should we get a horrendous plastic pitch to give us an advantage? The pitch is the same for both sides. Although I was wondering when that excuse would get rolled out. It doesn't cover their decent results in Glasgow, though? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GinRummy Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 To be fair to Sir PH, there's not a great deal wrong with looking at other teams approach to playing Rangers and seeing if we can adopt a similar style. Not seen Killie v either side of the old firm so can't really say much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karipidis Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Sir PH said: The pitch is the same for both sides. Although I was wondering when that excuse would get rolled out. It doesn't cover their decent results in Glasgow, though? So no wins at ibrox in 5 years and 1 last minute draw at Celtic Park in 5 years? Doesn't seem that decent to me..... Let's not pretend the Plastic Pitch is not a big advantage for them. Edited February 27 by karipidis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tazio Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 18 minutes ago, Sir PH said: His whole approach against the Old Firm will be different to what it is against the other teams in the league. And it seems to be working. Not really as they’re 11 points behind us. I’d rather be where we are than have the kudos of the occasional result against the OF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir PH Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 8 minutes ago, Tazio said: Not really as they’re 11 points behind us. I’d rather be where we are than have the kudos of the occasional result against the OF. Of course I'd rather be where we are, but is it asking too much to lay a glove on the Old Firm more often than we do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fozzyonthefence Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 (edited) 25 minutes ago, GinRummy said: To be fair to Sir PH, there's not a great deal wrong with looking at other teams approach to playing Rangers and seeing if we can adopt a similar style. Not seen Killie v either side of the old firm so can't really say much. Bingo! A point so obvious it shouldn’t really need explaining! And I’m absolutely certain this is something that our management team will do. SN isn’t stupid, I’m sure he will learn from Saturday’s humping and the way other teams get success against them. Edited February 27 by Fozzyonthefence Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pettigrewsstylist Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 On 26/02/2024 at 12:25, sicknote said: I prefer to wait a day or two after a game like that. lol. My take is that Stevie will have learnt a lot about his players, as much as we did not enjoy it, much was learnt. There were a number of our senior players who looked panicked and unassured in that environment. Those are the guys who won't win you cups or take you to the next level in the league when playing a reputedly "bigger" teams. So yes, as Shyte as it was, I hope Naismith and co will have learned much. My take on it aswell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fozzyonthefence Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 21 minutes ago, karipidis said: So no wins at ibrox in 5 years and 1 last minute draw at Celtic Park in 5 years? Doesn't seem that decent to me..... Let's not pretend the Plastic Pitch is not a big advantage for them. How’s that plastic advantage been working for them against us this season? Not saying it’s not a factor but how come we can cope on it (think we’re actually 5 wins out of 5 on plastic pitches this season so maybe we should get one!)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir PH Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 28 minutes ago, karipidis said: So no wins at ibrox in 5 years and 1 last minute draw at Celtic Park in 5 years? Doesn't seem that decent to me..... Let's not pretend the Plastic Pitch is not a big advantage for them. It's hardly been an advantage against us this season? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GinRummy Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 Just now, Fozzyonthefence said: Bingo! A point so obvious it shouldn’t really need explaining! And I’m absolutely certain this is something that our management team will do. SN isn’t stupid, I’m sure he will learn from Saturday’s humping. I think he's a sharp guy and will have learned a lot from saturday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karipidis Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 1 hour ago, Sir PH said: It's hardly been an advantage against us this season? There home form is incredible, has been for the last 2 years. The away form has been better this season, but to say they are getting loads of results away to the Old Firm is not correct. We have had more points than them away to the Old Firm in the last 5 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wee Mikey Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 2 hours ago, Vlad Magic said: Don’t give 2 shites about their record over the last “few” years. Their record over the last 50 will be much in a muchness to the rest. Shite. See below. I've already posted this and had to explain the logic of looking over a decent number of years so as not to simply highlight a distortion due to whatever factors such as a particular manager, something that's affected the more dominant team, and so on. The narrower the timeframe the more likely that results will vary from the norm. Yes, Killies record is similar to ours. 1 hour ago, Sir PH said: His whole approach against the Old Firm will be different to what it is against the other teams in the league. And it seems to be working. I couldn't see any difference between how they approach the Glasgow duo and their approach v Hearts. We've managed to find a way to deal with that. 1 hour ago, karipidis said: So no wins at ibrox in 5 years and 1 last minute draw at Celtic Park in 5 years? Doesn't seem that decent to me..... Let's not pretend the Plastic Pitch is not a big advantage for them. Also, their signing policy lends itself to how they approach playing v The Rangers, Celtic, and us. Giant technically limited huddies who can do a good job of shutting up shop, playing for set pieces, and falling over at the slightest touch. 1 hour ago, Fozzyonthefence said: How’s that plastic advantage been working for them against us this season? Not saying it’s not a factor but how come we can cope on it (think we’re actually 5 wins out of 5 on plastic pitches this season so maybe we should get one!)? I'm going to say that our upturn in results v Killie has been due to having more gifted players plus Naismith figuring out how to best them. Crikey! Naisy even used Lowry as a tactical sub to sink them. Lol. 1 hour ago, Sir PH said: It's hardly been an advantage against us this season? I'd say quite the opposite and suggest that without it we would've spanked them red raw and their results v the Glasgow duo would not have been so decent. 1 minute ago, karipidis said: There home form is incredible, has been for the last 2 years. The away form has been better this season, but to say they are getting loads of results away to the Old Firm is not correct. We have had more points than them away to the Old Firm in the last 5 years. Wow! If our rotten record beats their apparently really good one? Perception, maybe? F.A.O. Vlad Magic 👇 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlad Magic Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 3 minutes ago, Wee Mikey said: See below. I've already posted this and had to explain the logic of looking over a decent number of years so as not to simply highlight a distortion due to whatever factors such as a particular manager, something that's affected the more dominant team, and so on. The narrower the timeframe the more likely that results will vary from the norm. Yes, Killies record is similar to ours. I couldn't see any difference between how they approach the Glasgow duo and their approach v Hearts. We've managed to find a way to deal with that. Also, their signing policy lends itself to how they approach playing v The Rangers, Celtic, and us. Giant technically limited huddies who can do a good job of shutting up shop, playing for set pieces, and falling over at the slightest touch. I'm going to say that our upturn in results v Killie has been due to having more gifted players plus Naismith figuring out how to best them. Crikey! Naisy even used Lowry as a tactical sub to sink them. Lol. I'd say quite the opposite and suggest that without it we would've spanked them red raw and their results v the Glasgow duo would not have been so decent. Wow! If our rotten record beats their apparently really good one? Perception, maybe? F.A.O. Vlad Magic 👇 Cheers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitch41 Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 All we need to believe is In Naismith We Trust. All I thought about on saturday night was getting tore into Hibs on Wednesday, nothing else then we must look to give Celtic one hell of a beating at the weekend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Panzee Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 all interesting points raised here. IF we ever get to a point where we're spending a minimum £10-£15m per season for 10 years and THEN go to ipox and lose 5-0 - then that's when I will mislay my faeces. We have to remember the millions the uglies can 'afford' to spend on failures alone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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