We are not

[Chuck Berry]

2 minutes ago, buzzbomb1958 said:

Of course it is but there is nothing we can do about the coefficient because Scottish teams have been so shit in Europe, The Czech teams have done much better, Its more to do with UEFA making a bigger purse for the Giants of Europe they are not interested in Scottish teams who are shit in Europe anyway , I could probably lay odds in 2 years time there will be no Scottish clubs in any group phase in Europe unless ,the Saudi sheiks fancy a holiday home in Scotland 

 

Well you said you want the Czechs to overtake us, which is a moronic position to take as a Hearts fan.

 

I wouldn't waste your money on betting on a daft conspiracy theory.

[buzzbomb1958]

1 minute ago, Chuck Berry said:

 

Well you said you want the Czechs to overtake us, which is a moronic position to take as a Hearts fan.

 

I wouldn't waste your money on betting on a daft conspiracy theory.

The only reason Iwant that is to deprive the uglies of their holy grail which in turn would help in getting nearer to them , it doesn’t make a difference about the European money we’ve had . We have had better teams without it and as seen yesterday we’re even further behind than we were before sorry but **** Europe we should walk before we can run Hearts or any other team outside the uglies do not have the capabilities to play in Europe in fact it’s embarrassing at times , yes the money is good but what has it brought us , not a lot really

[RudiSkacelsLeftPeg]

23 hours ago, RS86 said:

Title contenders. If we had started the season differently...

 

We are building an infrastructure and a skeleton of a squad who I hope may realistically push the top 2 within the coming 5 seasons. But I can't see where us going on a good run of form after such a terrible start suggest we are close to touching the top 2 just yet.

 

I'd (insert Kevin Keegan) love it if we could, but lets just get 3rd secured and build on the big foundations we are laying currently.

Sorry, but we won’t be challenging Rangers and Celtic unless we are heavily invested in and have the funds to compete at their level.

 

No point in hoping we can, because it’s the hope that kills you.

[Lone Striker]

12 minutes ago, Australis said:

Nobody outside the old firm will win the league, ever again.

Finance and officials will make it like that.

Only if they leave for the English or European leagues will that change.

 

Imagine in 100 years looking at the past winners of our league.

50 wins for the zombies and 50 for the mhanks.

 

But our league will have the same interest and reputation as the Irish and Welsh league long before then.

I genuinely have no idea how England or Euro countries view our Premier League, but if you listen to Sportsound, our inbred media are having weekly orgasms at the "absolutely brilliant title race", which apparently is "great for Scottish football"

 

 

[RudiSkacelsLeftPeg]

4 minutes ago, buzzbomb1958 said:

The only reason Iwant that is to deprive the uglies of their holy grail which in turn would help in getting nearer to them , it doesn’t make a difference about the European money we’ve had . We have had better teams without it and as seen yesterday we’re even further behind than we were before sorry but **** Europe we should walk before we can run Hearts or any other team outside the uglies do not have the capabilities to play in Europe in fact it’s embarrassing at times , yes the money is good but what has it brought us , not a lot really

Agreed. Long term, what does the money bring us?
 

When we could actually compete in Europe 20 years ago against Braga and Stuttgart the money flying about in football today wasn’t back then. 
 

Could you imagine we played Stuttgart now? They’d wipe the floor with us both legs. We wouldn’t beat them 3-2 anyway!

[buzzbomb1958]

1 minute ago, RudiSkacelsLeftPeg said:

Sorry, but we won’t be challenging Rangers and Celtic unless we are heavily invested in and have the funds to compete at their level.

 

No point in hoping we can, because it’s the hope that kills you.

Someone actually gets it , Give us a Saudi Billionaire that would be a start I’d vote for it if the conditions were in our favour

[RudiSkacelsLeftPeg]

Just now, Lone Striker said:

I genuinely have no idea how England or Euro countries view our Premier League, but if you listen to Sportsound, our inbred media are having weekly orgasms at the "absolutely brilliant title race", which apparently is "great for Scottish football"

 

 

They laugh at us.

 

Everyone laughs at us.

[Chuck Berry]

5 minutes ago, buzzbomb1958 said:

The only reason Iwant that is to deprive the uglies of their holy grail which in turn would help in getting nearer to them , it doesn’t make a difference about the European money we’ve had . We have had better teams without it and as seen yesterday we’re even further behind than we were before sorry but **** Europe we should walk before we can run Hearts or any other team outside the uglies do not have the capabilities to play in Europe in fact it’s embarrassing at times , yes the money is good but what has it brought us , not a lot really

 

It won't. 

 

Let's just worry about us, and qualifying for group stage football is financially massive for us, helps attract better players and enjoyable as a fan which is what is most important. 

[buzzbomb1958]

1 minute ago, RudiSkacelsLeftPeg said:

They laugh at us.

 

Everyone laughs at us.

We are a pub league in their eyes

[Chuck Berry]

2 minutes ago, RudiSkacelsLeftPeg said:

Agreed. Long term, what does the money bring us?

 

Good God 

[buzzbomb1958]

1 minute ago, Chuck Berry said:

 

It won't. 

 

Let's just worry about us, and qualifying for group stage football is financially massive for us, helps attract better players and enjoyable as a fan which is what is most important. 

Where are the better players half the team are dugmeat imo

[Lone Striker]

13 minutes ago, Chuck Berry said:

 

It won't. 

 

Let's just worry about us, and qualifying for group stage football is financially massive for us, helps attract better players and enjoyable as a fan which is what is most important. 

tbf to Buzzbomb's posts on this - if all of Scotland's teams  lose out on  qualifying for Euro comps, it hurts the Bigots more than it hurts us. 

 

Are the likes of Kyogo or Jota etc going to be as  interested in moving to Celtic if they're not involved in Euro qualifying ?    The quality of their foreign players is likely to drop more than the ones we attract.   Plus they'd have a lot less money to spend  on incoming players, compared to our drop. 

 

Sure, the lure of 3rd place EUro ualifying will play some part in us getting the likes of the Aussie players ..... but its not the be-all-and-end-all.  I think  we'd still attract decent new players who'd see a strong Hearts team as a stepping stone to bigger things without actually playing in Euro comps.

   

Edited February 25 by Lone Striker

[Go for it 1308]

I agree with Buzzbomb to a certain degree.  I don't agree with  ''**** Europe " tho. 

Qualification for Europe is for the fans....its their reward for backing the team.  It gives us the chance to go abroad and watch our team and play glamour ties now and again.

One of the best nights of my life was travelling to Paris to watch us play Paris St Germain.  We got pumped...but I was proud of my team and the fact that the people of Paris had heard of Heart of Midlothian 🙂

 

[buzzbomb1958]

16 minutes ago, Go for it 1308 said:

I agree with Buzzbomb to a certain degree.  I don't agree with  ''**** Europe " tho. 

Qualification for Europe is for the fans....its their reward for backing the team.  It gives us the chance to go abroad and watch our team and play glamour ties now and again.

One of the best nights of my life was travelling to Paris to watch us play Paris St Germain.  We got pumped...but I was proud of my team and the fact that the people of Paris had heard of Heart of Midlothian 🙂

 

Yeh I was there as well slept under the Eiffel Tower memory serving but that was in a time before big money through sky and the likes , it was a more level playing field money wise , we even had a go against the mighty Bayern Munich ffs , it’s no longer like that 

[Chuck Berry]

42 minutes ago, Lone Striker said:

tbf to Buzzbomb's posts on this - if all of Scotland's teams  lose out on  qualifying for Euro comps, it hurts the Bigots more than it hurts us.

   

 

Frankly who cares, I'm more interested in Hearts and I want to see us playing at as high a level as possible, that's European group stage football and beyond and currently third place or a cup win gives us that, and we need to keep doing that as much as possible for the prestige it brings as well as the financial rewards.

 

Some people would seem to be happier hurting the OF than helping Hearts. Bizzarre logic.

 

 

[OTT]

2 hours ago, Chuck Berry said:

 

Long term, I'd like us to be the best in Scotland at producing quality players from our Academy which both funds operations through sales, and also strengthens the team without spending transfer fees.

 

That I assume is why we're looking closely at Oriam or relocating.

 

We can't get near the OF in turnover and never will.  We can get closer, but probably not close enough, but we can look at other ways at making in-roads and this is probably the main one.

 

 

 

Yeah, I really like the prospect of trying to build out the academy with the goal of being the best in Scotland. There are certain areas we obviously cannot compete with the OF in, or even come close. But I think Hickey opened the door (just a crack) to the idea that talented youngsters don't want to sit in the OF reserves until kingdom come (regardless of what club they support) waiting on their chance, and if we can offer an environment which could really give them the platform to perform alongside quality facilities, then there really is a good chance to build a competitive advantage. The stats are there, the OFs attitude to youth development is non-existant. They don't care about giving meaningful minutes to their young players. 

 

Issue is, that to do all that, we need the facilities and obviously Riccarton whilst being brilliant in many ways isn't quite delivering what we need at present and you've got to be willing to invest in good youth coaches and a quality academy director with vision and the ability to deliver (that meets the needs of the first team). 

 

I'm still not sure why Andy Webster got the job, he didn't look to have the experience so it will be interesting to see if he is the right man for the job. 

[Lone Striker]

19 minutes ago, OTT said:

 

Yeah, I really like the prospect of trying to build out the academy with the goal of being the best in Scotland. There are certain areas we obviously cannot compete with the OF in, or even come close. But I think Hickey opened the door (just a crack) to the idea that talented youngsters don't want to sit in the OF reserves until kingdom come (regardless of what club they support) waiting on their chance, and if we can offer an environment which could really give them the platform to perform alongside quality facilities, then there really is a good chance to build a competitive advantage. The stats are there, the OFs attitude to youth development is non-existant. They don't care about giving meaningful minutes to their young players. 

 

Issue is, that to do all that, we need the facilities and obviously Riccarton whilst being brilliant in many ways isn't quite delivering what we need at present and you've got to be willing to invest in good youth coaches and a quality academy director with vision and the ability to deliver (that meets the needs of the first team). 

 

I'm still not sure why Andy Webster got the job, he didn't look to have the experience so it will be interesting to see if he is the right man for the job. 

Didn't he have some experience of running St.Mirren's academy or U-18s or something ?

 

 

[Go for it 1308]

45 minutes ago, buzzbomb1958 said:

Yeh I was there as well slept under the Eiffel Tower memory serving but that was in a time before big money through sky and the likes , it was a more level playing field money wise , we even had a go against the mighty Bayern Munich ffs , it’s no longer like that 

Sadly it's not 👍

[tian447]

There is always the chance of a "Leicester City" season. 

 

But for it to actually happen, we need to win every single game against the clubs that aren't Celtic and Rangers, and then we need to make sure that we take something from those 8 games. 

 

There are 24 points a season that are a serious challenge for any club looking to break their stronghold.   It's a big ask, but every draw and win eats into the massive advantage they have ("real six pointers", etc. etc.) 

 

We just went on a ridiculous run of winning against the teams we should be beating. We need to do that every season, and not get gubbed 5-0 at Ibrox, and it puts pressure on the Uglies! 

 

I don't think winning the league is completely unrealistic, but it is a very difficult ask that requires absolutely no **** ups against teams we should be beating. 

[Arthur Morgan]

45 minutes ago, tian447 said:

I don't think winning the league is completely unrealistic

 

There is probably more chance of one of us winning the lottery than a team outwith the OF winning the league in the current format as it stands. 

[Wee Mikey]

2 minutes ago, tian447 said:

There is always the chance of a "Leicester City" season. 

 

But for it to actually happen, we need to win every single game against the clubs that aren't Celtic and Rangers, and then we need to make sure that we take something from those 8 games. 

 

There are 24 points a season that are a serious challenge for any club looking to break their stronghold.   It's a big ask, but every draw and win eats into the massive advantage they have ("real six pointers", etc. etc.) 

 

We just went on a ridiculous run of winning against the teams we should be beating. We need to do that every season, and not get gubbed 5-0 at Ibrox, and it puts pressure on the Uglies! 

 

I don't think winning the league is completely unrealistic, but it is a very difficult ask that requires absolutely no **** ups against teams we should be beating. 

 

Well, just look at our pre-thrashing form and the difference, at that point, had we not stuttered at the beginning of the season.

 

Now, imagine if our infrastructure developments (such as the hotel, an income generator that one fruit-loop yesterday described as a 'vanity project') plus forays into Europe allowed us to get to the tipping point whereby the laws of diminishing returns vastly reduces the gulf in class between our players and those of the Glasgow duopoly.

 

What that tipping point is is up for debate, but I'd guess that it's currently somewhere between £12K to £15K per week wages.

 

For ages we've been more-or-less neck and neck with Aberdeen and Hibs as regards player budgets and the arguments on here about such are virtually meaningless.

 

What's more, we've been not all that different to so-called lesser teams due to fishing largely in the same pond for free transfers and loans.

 

For sure, the difference in quality between a £1K - £2K player and a £20K - £30K player will be vast, hence the 2 biggest clubs having ridiculous stats as regards winning streaks etc., with only abberrations to upset the paper odds. But, the further we eat into that difference the better, and I reckon that we're getting there.

 

I expect that over the next few seasons we'll pull away from the other 9 teams, but won't realistically challenge for top spot until we get to that elusive tipping point.

 

Then, a good manager plus the normal variations in form and injuries between clubs over the course of a season could very well see it becoming a genuine 3 horse race.

[tian447]

54 minutes ago, Arthur Morgan said:

 

There is probably more chance of one of us winning the lottery than a team outwith the OF winning the league in the current format as it stands. 

 

Of course. But again, look at the Leicester City season. They were seriously up against it, but won the games they should have, got some good luck in others, and stood up against the big teams. 

 

If there wasn't a slight hope, we'd pack it all in and do something else on a Saturday...

[tian447]

1 hour ago, Wee Mikey said:

 

Well, just look at our pre-thrashing form and the difference, at that point, had we not stuttered at the beginning of the season.

 

Now, imagine if our infrastructure developments (such as the hotel, an income generator that one fruit-loop yesterday described as a 'vanity project') plus forays into Europe allowed us to get to the tipping point whereby the laws of diminishing returns vastly reduces the gulf in class between our players and those of the Glasgow duopoly.

 

What that tipping point is is up for debate, but I'd guess that it's currently somewhere between £12K to £15K per week wages.

 

For ages we've been more-or-less neck and neck with Aberdeen and Hibs as regards player budgets and the arguments on here about such are virtually meaningless.

 

What's more, we've been not all that different to so-called lesser teams due to fishing largely in the same pond for free transfers and loans.

 

For sure, the difference in quality between a £1K - £2K player and a £20K - £30K player will be vast, hence the 2 biggest clubs having ridiculous stats as regards winning streaks etc., with only abberrations to upset the paper odds. But, the further we eat into that difference the better, and I reckon that we're getting there.

 

I expect that over the next few seasons we'll pull away from the other 9 teams, but won't realistically challenge for top spot until we get to that elusive tipping point.

 

Then, a good manager plus the normal variations in form and injuries between clubs over the course of a season could very well see it becoming a genuine 3 horse race.

 

I very much think we can do it.  Maybe not now, but we can do it. 

 

Build up the background finances so we can afford to spend a bit more on players.  Beat the teams we should be beating, and get some points on the board versus Celtic and Rangers. We've already done it this season, but we need to do it more consistently. That 24 point swing looks better when we can get 6, 9, 12 points off them... 

 

It's a long shot, but what else do we have than hope? None of us would bother if we didn't think it was possible! 

Edited February 26 by tian447

[Arthur Morgan]

5 hours ago, tian447 said:

If there wasn't a slight hope, we'd pack it all in and do something else on a Saturday...

 

Tbh I don't have any hope we can finish 1st, or even 2nd for that matter. I always go into each season hoping for a 3rd placed finish.

Edited February 26 by Arthur Morgan

[jamboozy]

26 minutes ago, Arthur Morgan said:

 

Tbh I don't have any hope we can finish 1st, or even 2nd for that matter. I always go into each season hoping for a 3rd placed finish.

It’s where I’m getting to tbf, we should just start posting the league without the top two places, honestly, it sounds crazy I know, but it’s a more exciting looking league if you take the green & blue donkeys out of the picture.

    I don’t get too upset about getting beat by the OF anymore, once there would have been no living with me for a few days as I brooded away, now? I go along to Tynecastle to cheer our players and try and encourage them to get better so we can have at least the chance of a victory against them once in a while. I’ve probably become a bit numb to the pain due to enduring it so long. 

[Benny Klack]

21 hours ago, johnking123 said:

What annoys me is when the players come out say we are going to this and that. Then put in a performance like that. I would fine them for talking shit to the papers. Go do it   then have your say.

What do expect them to say at pre match press conferences - “we’re gonna get pumped on Saturday” 😀

[TexasAndy]

I don't think anyone realistically sees us as title contenders.  The hard facts are that the title has been shared by the OF for 39 years.  They were always the two biggest teams prior to Aberdeen lifting title in 85 but since then they have raised the bar financially, if sometimes illegally.  Our best hope is to build a team that can challenge for the cups and maybe have that one season when the stars align and we can mount a league challenge.  As a club we are trying to get to that stage by building a financial income base that at least allows us qualify for Europe each season but for me the key is the youth academy.   Get a conveyor belt of good youngsters and keep them at the club long enough for them to make an impact.

Edited February 26 by TexasAndy

[ford donald]

8 hours ago, Arthur Morgan said:

 

There is probably more chance of one of us winning the lottery than a team outwith the OF winning the league in the current format as it stands. 

 That's about it,don't believe it will ever happen.

[edramone]

Beggars belief that anyone thinks a non Old Firm team could win the League this day and age

[loveofthegame]

On 25/02/2024 at 00:27, Bull's-eye said:

1 defeat and the towel gets chucked in. 

 

That's more pathetic than the teams display today. 

 

 

Or a realistic view of where we are?

 

Until we can cement 3rd consistently, over a long term period, we have absolutely no hope of competing with the OF (unless there is a one off sensational season of which we've seen 2 or 3x in my lifetime (I'm 36)).

 

Even finishing 3rd consistently is a serious challenge, as highlighted by our drop-off last season and Aberdeen's this season. But that has to be the current aim. Aberdeen are chucking money about and Hibs have a "major" investment incoming which could bring further challenges to that initial goal we are setting.

 

IF (and it is a big IF) we can consistently finish third over a longer term period then perhaps we can start to reset our goals. I've no issue with aiming big but we need to do it over a medium to long term and actually back up talk with action.

 

I think Tynie needs to be bigger to ever seriously challenge as that is the only way we can grow income outside of (a) consistent European group stage football (already discussed above), (b) a consistent conveyor belt of player sales (always very tough to do and something we've been very poor at in recent years) or (c) a much better TV deal (something those that run our game seem to be utterly incapable of securing). 

[Papa]

On 25/02/2024 at 09:27, pettigrewsstylist said:

Will we continue to see any Euro groups qualification after next season?

Who knows? UEFA can change the qualification rules on a whim. We need to keep our focus on being best of the rest and getting to cup finals. That is all we can control. 
 

in my more wistful moments, recognising the near 40 years since the last time neither Rangers or Celtic won the league, I toy with the idea of a league within the league which excludes results against them, perhaps even with a trophy for the winners. Of course the current split would render this unworkable. Something needs to be done to maintain interest going forward.

[Wee Mikey]

5 hours ago, Papa said:

Who knows? UEFA can change the qualification rules on a whim. We need to keep our focus on being best of the rest and getting to cup finals. That is all we can control. 
 

in my more wistful moments, recognising the near 40 years since the last time neither Rangers or Celtic won the league, I toy with the idea of a league within the league which excludes results against them, perhaps even with a trophy for the winners. Of course the current split would render this unworkable. Something needs to be done to maintain interest going forward.

 

No, no, and thrice no.

 

Apart from being the very definition of 'cringe' ...

 

... that would be an open invitation for a never ending rendition of ...

 

🎶🎵🎶

"Big team, big cup;

Wee team, wee cup."

🎶🎵🎶

 

... being aimed at ...

 

... US

[saxondale]

6 hours ago, Papa said:

Who knows? UEFA can change the qualification rules on a whim. We need to keep our focus on being best of the rest and getting to cup finals. That is all we can control. 
 

in my more wistful moments, recognising the near 40 years since the last time neither Rangers or Celtic won the league, I toy with the idea of a league within the league which excludes results against them, perhaps even with a trophy for the winners. Of course the current split would render this unworkable. Something needs to be done to maintain interest going forward.

 

Good intentions, but I suspect that would our league, and the teams that participate in it, even more of a laughing stock.

 

We just need to get rid of the old firm.

[Smithian]

I don't believe Hearts will "never" break third.

 

Let's imagine a hypothetical not totally unrealistic just this season. Entering last Saturday, flip a single Hearts L to a W and a single Rangers W to an L, and let's pretend instead of Hearts starting sloppy and everything going awful that instead Rangers play tight and Hearts win 1-0 on a late fluke goal. At that point in the table, Hearts would be sitting on 57 points to Rangers at 61. You're telling me the above scenario is out of bounds, and from that point it is inconceivable Hearts could make a run? Add to that if Rangers keep winning in Europe and have some extra matches.

 

I think Hearts can finish second someday in the next decade. I doubt they will, but they can. It would take a scenario of Hearts starting hot with one of the OF starting slow and making a mess of it in league play, and probably also need to include Hearts falling out of Europe pre-group while the OF team play plenty of Euro football.

 

If Leicester can win the Premier League, I don't think it is out of bounds if everything lined up right that Hearts could finish second in the next decade.

 

In the meantime, I'll be less worried about the table and definitely more excited Hearts playing deep into Europe someday and helping out the coefficient instead of being free riders. I'm not above enjoying the Conference League.

[Bazzas right boot]

This thread is unbelievable.

 

 

[jbee647]

On 25/02/2024 at 09:23, skinnybob72 said:

The issue we have is that Rantic seem to be able to up their game significantly if we look like doing anything. None of us saw a 0-5 coming yesterday. 
 

From memory most of our meagre wins at Ibrox have come in when we’ve been poor, the win under Sergio, the Joe Hamill game, the Johnson hat-trick. 
 

On the few occasions when something has been expected of us we have usually failed. 

In my lifetime, over 50 years of following Hearts, apart from one off cup ties, the only time we have beaten either of the old firm in a truly meaningful league game was the two victories home and away against Rangers in the championship in 2014/15.

The other victories against the OF invariably have come in matches that have been regularly insignificant and had no bearing on our season.

The point being when the old firm need a win against us, 99% of the time they will get that win, when something is actually on the line, they are almost certain to win ( not just against Hearts btw)

 

For the reasons posted above I fully expect by hook or by crook a Celtic victory on Sunday.

I hope I’m completely wrong, but Celtic desperately require the win, and history is not on our side

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 26 by jbee647

[Hearts_fan]

If we match their results against the other 9, it’s head to heads that wins the league. It’s not exactly rocket science, and certainly not impossible after a few years of consolidation in the top 3 or even top 4, building turnover and playing budget. 

Folk being depressing killjoys does not dampen my hopes.

[jager man]

On 25/02/2024 at 23:07, OTT said:

 

Yeah, I really like the prospect of trying to build out the academy with the goal of being the best in Scotland. There are certain areas we obviously cannot compete with the OF in, or even come close. But I think Hickey opened the door (just a crack) to the idea that talented youngsters don't want to sit in the OF reserves until kingdom come (regardless of what club they support) waiting on their chance, and if we can offer an environment which could really give them the platform to perform alongside quality facilities, then there really is a good chance to build a competitive advantage. The stats are there, the OFs attitude to youth development is non-existant. They don't care about giving meaningful minutes to their young players. 

 

Issue is, that to do all that, we need the facilities and obviously Riccarton whilst being brilliant in many ways isn't quite delivering what we need at present and you've got to be willing to invest in good youth coaches and a quality academy director with vision and the ability to deliver (that meets the needs of the first team). 

 

I'm still not sure why Andy Webster got the job, he didn't look to have the experience so it will be interesting to see if he is the right man for the job. 

What do you exactly know about Andy Webster? So far as a parent of an academy pupil I would say the guy is foing a fantastic job. Let's give the guy time. He got the job in July and your are already unsure of his appointment.  What were you looking for him to  haveachieved in the six months he has been here. 

[OTT]

2 minutes ago, jager man said:

What do you exactly know about Andy Webster? So far as a parent of an academy pupil I would say the guy is foing a fantastic job. Let's give the guy time. He got the job in July and your are already unsure of his appointment.  What were you looking for him to  haveachieved in the six months he has been here. 

 

Experience. Our academy acheived the sum total of nothing under Arnott. We get McAvoy in and start to see a return, then revert back to an inexperienced hire. 

 

That is why I'm saying "not sure". As you say though, time will tell and I'll be hoping he's a roaring success. 

[jager man]

13 minutes ago, Hearts_fan said:

If we match their results against the other 9, it’s head to heads that wins the league. It’s not exactly rocket science, and certainly not impossible after a few years of consolidation in the top 3 or even top 4, building turnover and playing budget. 

Folk being depressing killjoys does not dampen my hopes.

Exactly. In 1998 we had only taken 1 point off the old firm until late Feb (less than this season) but we were still neck and neck with them. If we had won one or two of Them earlier matches against the uglies we could have won the league. We lost the league that year by 7 points. 

[jager man]

7 minutes ago, OTT said:

 

Experience. Our academy acheived the sum total of nothing under Arnott. We get McAvoy in and start to see a return, then revert back to an inexperienced hire. 

 

That is why I'm saying "not sure". As you say though, time will tell and I'll be hoping he's a roaring success. 

What was McAvoys return you talk about? As for Arnott I said nothing about him. 

[Arthur Morgan]

16 hours ago, TexasAndy said:

Get a conveyor belt of good youngsters and keep them at the club long enough for them to make an impact.

 

Problem with that now is England. They basically hoover up most decent prospects before we even get a proper look at them.

[Papa]

21 hours ago, Wee Mikey said:

 

No, no, and thrice no.

 

Apart from being the very definition of 'cringe' ...

 

... that would be an open invitation for a never ending rendition of ...

 

🎶🎵🎶

"Big team, big cup;

Wee team, wee cup."

🎶🎵🎶

 

... being aimed at ...

 

... US

So what? I am just recognising the reality of the last 40 years and the likelihood of it being the reality of the next 40. 

[Papa]

21 hours ago, saxondale said:

 

Good intentions, but I suspect that would our league, and the teams that participate in it, even more of a laughing stock.

 

We just need to get rid of the old firm.

Getting rid of the old firm? That’s not happening. Even if it did they would engineer that their B teams would remain in our leagues and with their greatly increased resources ultimately would dominate just as they do now.

 

I grant that the idea is not particularly attractive but is it worse than the status quo?

[saxondale]

19 minutes ago, Papa said:

Getting rid of the old firm? That’s not happening. Even if it did they would engineer that their B teams would remain in our leagues and with their greatly increased resources ultimately would dominate just as they do now.

 

I grant that the idea is not particularly attractive but is it worse than the status quo?

 

Getting rid of the old firm is far more likely that your suggestion. It comes up every couple years, and given that some clubs were initially up for a European Super League (and this does seem to have gone away), leagues like that or Celtic and Rangers joining the English leagues is hardly unfathomable.

 

I agree the B teams could be a bit of a concern, but they would not be able to compete with the likes of us, Hibs and Aberdeen.

 

IMHO, I think your suggestion, as good intentioned as it was, would just completely rip out the remaining respect and integrity our league has.

[Watt-Zeefuik]

On 26/02/2024 at 07:45, Papa said:

Who knows? UEFA can change the qualification rules on a whim. We need to keep our focus on being best of the rest and getting to cup finals. That is all we can control. 
 

in my more wistful moments, recognising the near 40 years since the last time neither Rangers or Celtic won the league, I toy with the idea of a league within the league which excludes results against them, perhaps even with a trophy for the winners. Of course the current split would render this unworkable. Something needs to be done to maintain interest going forward.

 

Whether it helps us be competitive or not, the current 12 team/triple rondrel/split system should have been gone 10 years ago. It is just awful at every turn.

 

There are so many better options that address the concerns about OF derbies and TV revenue and all of that. We don't have to live with this madness.

 

I have no idea why the SPFL thinks its a good idea to maintain a structure all through its ranks that involves every team playing every other team *four* times a year. It's so absurdly repetitive and wasteful. I suppose we should count ourselves lucky that we only play 5 teams four times and the rest a weird, unbalanced three times that always causes scheduling headaches after the split.

 

Just deranged IMO.

[Der Kaiser]

Burley era was our best chance.

 

Never happening again with the Ugly Sisters in the league.

[Chuck Berry]

37 minutes ago, Watt-Zeefuik said:

 

Whether it helps us be competitive or not, the current 12 team/triple rondrel/split system should have been gone 10 years ago. It is just awful at every turn.

 

There are so many better options that address the concerns about OF derbies and TV revenue and all of that. We don't have to live with this madness.

 

I have no idea why the SPFL thinks its a good idea to maintain a structure all through its ranks that involves every team playing every other team *four* times a year. It's so absurdly repetitive and wasteful. I suppose we should count ourselves lucky that we only play 5 teams four times and the rest a weird, unbalanced three times that always causes scheduling headaches after the split.

 

Just deranged IMO.

 

Each and every club is shit scared of the unknown, all stemming from the Setanta collapse.

 

Why else would they agree to just extend the Sky deal to 2029 instead of going out to tender to see who bids highest? They're scared that there's not enough interest and they piss off Sky again, so we're saddled with a poor TV deal due to lack of ambition and frankly, business nous at the top.  Like it or not the arse cheeks are a very sellable global product, we don't come anywhere near capitalising on it for the benefit of everyone.

 

Then we have the L1 and L2 clubs who exist on SPFL handouts, they do not want less home games a 16/18 team league brings, they do not want more promotion/relegation to the Lowland/Highland, they do not want B teams. They just don't want things to change.

 

We're almost full circle again with a breakaway SPL.

 

 

Edited February 27 by Chuck Berry

[Hearts_fan]

Money is all it takes.

[Papa]

17 hours ago, Watt-Zeefuik said:

 

Whether it helps us be competitive or not, the current 12 team/triple rondrel/split system should have been gone 10 years ago. It is just awful at every turn.

 

There are so many better options that address the concerns about OF derbies and TV revenue and all of that. We don't have to live with this madness.

 

I have no idea why the SPFL thinks its a good idea to maintain a structure all through its ranks that involves every team playing every other team *four* times a year. It's so absurdly repetitive and wasteful. I suppose we should count ourselves lucky that we only play 5 teams four times and the rest a weird, unbalanced three times that always causes scheduling headaches after the split.

 

Just deranged IMO.

I agree. However there are too many clubs that rely on at least two visits from each of the uglies for survival. I’m afraid we are stuck with the current leagues in perpetuity. The absurd 11:1 voting system is another obstacle to meaningful change. We have the misguided sheep to blame for that.