RS86 Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 Title contenders. If we had started the season differently... We are building an infrastructure and a skeleton of a squad who I hope may realistically push the top 2 within the coming 5 seasons. But I can't see where us going on a good run of form after such a terrible start suggest we are close to touching the top 2 just yet. I'd (insert Kevin Keegan) love it if we could, but lets just get 3rd secured and build on the big foundations we are laying currently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russ1977 Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 We will never win the league or really challenge as things stand. If the league expanded and we played teams twice a season then we might have half a chance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papa Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 Repeated qualification for European group stage football will make us much better and should take us further ahead of the also rans but it won’t bring us any closer to the gruesome twosome as by definition they will end up in the Champions League and that money if anything will take them further away from us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambo1975 Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 I don't think anyone with a realistic viewpoint would ever say we are close to challenging for the league. Today was an opportunity to see if there has been any progression in us moving towards that. We haven't, 3rd is the best we can ever hope to achieve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edramone Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 7 minutes ago, jambo1975 said: I don't think anyone with a realistic viewpoint would ever say we are close to challenging for the league. Today was an opportunity to see if there has been any progression in us moving towards that. We haven't, 3rd is the best we can ever hope to achieve Agree. And even 3rd will be a challenge every year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FerryJambo81 Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 Solid OP I'd say. Always say you don't have to be better than them to win a league, you need to be much better than everyone else and compete with them on individual games. We got soundly put back in our box today, goals at terrible times. Especially the second, however they were better all over the park. I digress.... It's not implausible we build a structure as op said that pulls us away, then we may challenge. It's certainly possible to create a better team with lesser players, that's the blue sky utopia. Unlikely, aye, possible...abso****inglutely Disappointing trip today but onwards and upwards. Meandered a shade but long old day Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FerryJambo81 Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 10 minutes ago, jambo1975 said: I don't think anyone with a realistic viewpoint would ever say we are close to challenging for the league. Today was an opportunity to see if there has been any progression in us moving towards that. We haven't, 3rd is the best we can ever hope to achieve I do think ever is too far. They're way ahead I do not doubt, but it's certainly not impossible. Done do death as example but there's always a Leicester, possibly the other Bayer (not even trying at this hour 😂) the classic a team is greater than the sum of its parts. Maybe I'm delusional, whats the point if I'm not 🤷♂️ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bull's-eye Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 1 defeat and the towel gets chucked in. That's more pathetic than the teams display today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RS86 Posted February 25 Author Share Posted February 25 52 minutes ago, jambo1975 said: I don't think anyone with a realistic viewpoint would ever say we are close to challenging for the league. Today was an opportunity to see if there has been any progression in us moving towards that. We haven't, 3rd is the best we can ever hope to achieve I watched a cringeworthy video earlier in the evening where someone said we were. This is the link if it will embed: https://www.facebook.com/share/v/mD7Knui7iMuqe2uY/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D4nny_ Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 I remember Ann Budge stating years ago that we’ll never outspend the old firm, but there could come a time we could outsmart them. I’ll always be optimistic the stars might align one day. We at least need to keep being the best of the rest for now and everything else will take care of itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricardo Quaresma Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 Was there really anyone seriously believing that we were chasing a top 2 spot? Really? Needless OP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watt-Zeefuik Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 23 minutes ago, Ricardo Quaresma said: Was there really anyone seriously believing that we were chasing a top 2 spot? Really? Needless OP For me it was a fun pipe dream, a "what if, you never know, funny things happen in football" kind of thing. Something I allowed myself to entertain because it was fun but not anything I really expected. The path to challenging the OF runs through Europe IMO. Huge potential source of revenue if we can up our performances there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Idle Talk Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 I don't want to be offensive but if anybody on this forum thought for one minute that we are 'title contenders' then they are seriously deluded. We have been on a great run but understand where we are. We are not there. Doesn't mean we can't win the Scottish Cup though. I'm still believing in that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buzzbomb1958 Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 9 hours ago, Papa said: Repeated qualification for European group stage football will make us much better and should take us further ahead of the also rans but it won’t bring us any closer to the gruesome twosome as by definition they will end up in the Champions League and that money if anything will take them further away from us. The uglies will have one more season of automatic qualification to the champions league but the Czech teams are now close to overtaking them in the coefficient table which if they succeed will push the automatic qualifying place away from Scotland because then even the winner of the SPL will have to play 2 qualifiers to move forward into the actual group stages , therefor depriving the uglies of the big money if they do not qualify, So I for one will be cheering on the Czech teams **** the coefficient Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King prawn Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 8 hours ago, Bull's-eye said: 1 defeat and the towel gets chucked in. That's more pathetic than the teams display today. This. We’ve now got fans saying people will turn on the team if we don’t score early next week after 11 wins of our last 12 matches Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinnybob72 Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 The issue we have is that Rantic seem to be able to up their game significantly if we look like doing anything. None of us saw a 0-5 coming yesterday. From memory most of our meagre wins at Ibrox have come in when we’ve been poor, the win under Sergio, the Joe Hamill game, the Johnson hat-trick. On the few occasions when something has been expected of us we have usually failed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pettigrewsstylist Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 9 hours ago, Papa said: Repeated qualification for European group stage football will make us much better and should take us further ahead of the also rans but it won’t bring us any closer to the gruesome twosome as by definition they will end up in the Champions League and that money if anything will take them further away from us. Will we continue to see any Euro groups qualification after next season? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sooks Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 10 hours ago, RS86 said: Title contenders. If we had started the season differently... We are building an infrastructure and a skeleton of a squad who I hope may realistically push the top 2 within the coming 5 seasons. But I can't see where us going on a good run of form after such a terrible start suggest we are close to touching the top 2 just yet. I'd (insert Kevin Keegan) love it if we could, but lets just get 3rd secured and build on the big foundations we are laying currently. Good post . I think some actually believed we should have been favourites yesterday and just went to Ibrox and took the points home . We all love to pretend teams that we dislike are shite , but the reality is they are a very good team and they played very well yesterday Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBigO Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 Yesterday simply adds to the argument that a challenge cant happen when playing the OF SCUM 8x a season. Drop to 4, beat the rest, the league could get interesting on occasion. Which is also exactly why it wont happen But anyone getting their frillies twisted about the result is only showing themselves as a simpleton for not seeing it coming. Not sure i saw 5,but i knew we'd lose with daylight between. The fact we were 2 mins from victory there and have won at their sister's pit is an honorable anomaly. Yesterday is just maths. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GinRummy Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 3 minutes ago, Sooks said: Good post . I think some actually believed we should have been favourites yesterday and just went to Ibrox and took the points home . We all love to pretend teams that we dislike are shite , but the reality is they are a very good team and they played very well yesterday Obviously folk are focused on Hearts performance but Rangers were excellent yesterday. That press was as good as I’ve seen in a long time. Sure, we weren’t great and didn’t do ourselves any favours etc but we’re not good enough to beat either side of the old firm if they’re at their best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sooks Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 Just now, GinRummy said: Obviously folk are focused on Hearts performance but Rangers were excellent yesterday. That press was as good as I’ve seen in a long time. Sure, we weren’t great and didn’t do ourselves any favours etc but we’re not good enough to beat either side of the old firm if they’re at their best. Yip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bauld Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 1 minute ago, GinRummy said: Obviously folk are focused on Hearts performance but Rangers were excellent yesterday. That press was as good as I’ve seen in a long time. Sure, we weren’t great and didn’t do ourselves any favours etc but we’re not good enough to beat either side of the old firm if they’re at their best. I was watching match of the day this morning and if you watch their analysis of what Arsenal did to Newcastle it is identical to how rangers went after us and neither us nor Newcastle had an answer for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boag1874 Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 Yesterday showed how big the gap is. We’ve scored in every game for months & largely have been solid defensively in that time, we’ve controlled teams & have absolutely dominated in the latter stages of games. Whenever we’ve gone behind we’ve came roaring back into it and shown tremendous confidence in our ability. Yesterday Rangers ran right over us like we weren’t there. They dominated our midfield and gave us absolutely nothing to build off. It hurts to admit but when they turn up they’re miles ahead of us, yesterday they turned up and we couldn’t get near them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AC Mallin_51 Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 Think we need to remember Rangers got to the EL final not long ago and have genuine belief they can get deep into the competition again this year. I think it’d probably be accepted on here that a lot of teams in that competition would make mince meat of us. That’s a reminder of the level of gap Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sooks Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 Just now, AC Mallin_51 said: Think we need to remember Rangers got to the EL final not long ago and have genuine belief they can get deep into the competition again this year. I think it’d probably be accepted on here that a lot of teams in that competition would make mince meat of us. That’s a reminder of the level of gap Would it though . There were people chucking their faeces at the wall when we got beaten by Fiorentina . Some fans are just genuinely deluded Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AC Mallin_51 Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 1 minute ago, Sooks said: Would it though . There were people chucking their faeces at the wall when we got beaten by Fiorentina . Some fans are just genuinely deluded True, I’m sure I heard someone shout “reject” to Jovic when we played Fiorentina. Yes a reject he was… … from Real Madrid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomaso Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 9 hours ago, Bull's-eye said: 1 defeat and the towel gets chucked in. That's more pathetic than the teams display today. Realism more like Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramrod Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 No club outside Celtic or Rangers will ever finish 2nd in the league never mind win it. We or anyone else in the league don't have the finances to sign enough quality to do so over 38 games Thats the sad reality of Scottish football. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gregzy2k7 Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 10 hours ago, RS86 said: Title contenders. If we had started the season differently... We are building an infrastructure and a skeleton of a squad who I hope may realistically push the top 2 within the coming 5 seasons. But I can't see where us going on a good run of form after such a terrible start suggest we are close to touching the top 2 just yet. I'd (insert Kevin Keegan) love it if we could, but lets just get 3rd secured and build on the big foundations we are laying currently. I'm wise enough to not expect us to challenge for the Title, However, Even as things stand, we should be doing a good bit better against them imo, All i am really expecting us to show is a bit more fight and resilience and to not capitulate after 2 minutes at Ibrox. I don't think that's too much to ask. Especially when you look at the run of form we have been on, If we had lost 2-0 to a couple of wonder goals or really well worked goals and potentially had shown a bit of bottle and fight and not had our trousers pulled down and spanked, then I think most on here would have been over it tbh. Unfortunately we showed 0 bottle and 0 resilience and lost a barrow load of cheap goals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnking123 Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 What annoys me is when the players come out say we are going to this and that. Then put in a performance like that. I would fine them for talking shit to the papers. Go do it then have your say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RENE Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 We have never been able to deal with the high press. We seem to be all over the place when a team closes us down high up the park. We have to get this sorted because we're coming up against this tactic more and more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1874Jambo Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 The problem starts with these youngsters that haven't even started shaving thinking we're entitled to win because we've had a bit of success over the past 20 years or so. Thinking they're better supporters because they hang about in a black jumper brigade Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haj Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 1 minute ago, 1874Jambo said: The problem starts with these youngsters that haven't even started shaving thinking we're entitled to win because we've had a bit of success over the past 20 years or so. Thinking they're better supporters because they hang about in a black jumper brigade If you’re referring to the ultras, that certainly hasn’t been my view on things. The young guys recently have been brilliant - constantly backing the team and I even saw them out collecting money for big hearts (I think) outside tynie a few weeks ago, which is a far cry from what the young team were up to when I started going to the games. I’ve always found it’s the grumpy auld gits who just go to the football for a moan and who want every tom, dick and harry that takes the managerial role to be punted after one game, to be far more entitled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dsjambo Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 1 hour ago, RENE said: We have never been able to deal with the high press. We seem to be all over the place when a team closes us down high up the park. We have to get this sorted because we're coming up against this tactic more and more. Correct and yesterdays game was a good example of a high press from them. Unless you are Man City, the only way to beat it is to go long and play off the 2nd balls in their half. Unfortunately, we don’t have a presence up front for this to work so there’s no doubt we have a problem with this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricardo Quaresma Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 10 hours ago, Watt-Zeefuik said: For me it was a fun pipe dream, a "what if, you never know, funny things happen in football" kind of thing. Something I allowed myself to entertain because it was fun but not anything I really expected. The path to challenging the OF runs through Europe IMO. Huge potential source of revenue if we can up our performances there. I got why you leaned into that, no worries 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watt-Zeefuik Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 4 hours ago, GinRummy said: Obviously folk are focused on Hearts performance but Rangers were excellent yesterday. That press was as good as I’ve seen in a long time. Sure, we weren’t great and didn’t do ourselves any favours etc but we’re not good enough to beat either side of the old firm if they’re at their best. Absolutely. Some folk saying they were nothing special, pfff. Wash my mouth out with soap for praising that horrid club, but they were outstanding all over the pitch yesterday, 12 minutes ago, Ricardo Quaresma said: I got why you leaned into that, no worries 👍 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OTT Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 There is only so much we can do in the league, and I think the level we can realistically get to within the confines of our current turnover. We can compete with the OF in just the right circumstances, but over the piece? Its just not doable. We don't have the depth or quality, and I think the longer our unbeaten run goes on, its like the more cracks start to show. Its probably why getting more money into the club infrastructure is so important. Give the club the kind of foundation from which to compete at that higher level. As things stand, it often seems like the difference between winning and losing against 9 teams in this league is individual decision making. Any team can beat another with a little bit of luck and slightly better decision making. The amount of games that are fine margins is insane and extremely frustrating because it says the gulf in quality between 3rd and 12th actually, isn't that huge. We've not won a game in the league this season by more than 2 goals, so every game is a cagey mess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buzzbomb1958 Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 20 hours ago, Papa said: Repeated qualification for European group stage football will make us much better and should take us further ahead of the also rans but it won’t bring us any closer to the gruesome twosome as by definition they will end up in the Champions League and that money if anything will take them further away from us. Have you forgot that the winners of SPL have one more season of automatic qualification into the group stages of the Champions League,and depending on how the Czech teams get on in Europe this season will decide the coefficient table for next again season . Rangers are .5 of a point in front but with 3 Czech sides still in Europe this will possibly change , I hope so to see the path made even harder to get into the big money would be brilliant so shout out loud FECK THE COEFFICIENT COME ON THE CZECHS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Berry Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 7 minutes ago, buzzbomb1958 said: Have you forgot that the winners of SPL have one more season of automatic qualification into the group stages of the Champions League,and depending on how the Czech teams get on in Europe this season will decide the coefficient table for next again season . Rangers are .5 of a point in front but with 3 Czech sides still in Europe this will possibly change , I hope so to see the path made even harder to get into the big money would be brilliant so shout out loud FECK THE COEFFICIENT COME ON THE CZECHS Are you as thick as your posts on here suggest? If we want group stage European football to continue to be a realistic possibility for finishing 3rd/winning Scottish Cup, then we need to remain high in the coefficients. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Berry Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 6 hours ago, OTT said: Its probably why getting more money into the club infrastructure is so important. Give the club the kind of foundation from which to compete at that higher level. Long term, I'd like us to be the best in Scotland at producing quality players from our Academy which both funds operations through sales, and also strengthens the team without spending transfer fees. That I assume is why we're looking closely at Oriam or relocating. We can't get near the OF in turnover and never will. We can get closer, but probably not close enough, but we can look at other ways at making in-roads and this is probably the main one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watt-Zeefuik Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 8 minutes ago, Chuck Berry said: Are you as thick as your posts on here suggest? If we want group stage European football to continue to be a realistic possibility for finishing 3rd/winning Scottish Cup, then we need to remain high in the coefficients. Right, I ****ing hate this new potential for £5m annually that lets us finally put in competitive bids for players without getting pipped by the likes of Stevenage and Exeter City. GET RID. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buzzbomb1958 Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 8 minutes ago, Chuck Berry said: Are you as thick as your posts on here suggest? If we want group stage European football to continue to be a realistic possibility for finishing 3rd/winning Scottish Cup, then we need to remain high in the coefficients. We won’t ,UEFA are pumping up the prize money to suit the Giants of European football to stop any thoughts of breakaway leagues etc. do you think Scottish team will be given a second thought ? Unless we get a Saudi billionaire on board we won’t see Europe group stage football ever not in the market we shop in, even the uglies will struggle to qualify, unless they go all in and spend spend spend , so in answer to your question of course the coefficient matters by unless Rangers go further than every Czech team in Europe then it’s goosed , I’m not thick I’m just being logical, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bungalow Bill Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 20 hours ago, edramone said: Agree. And even 3rd will be a challenge every year It should get easier if we spend the European money well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Berry Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 7 minutes ago, buzzbomb1958 said: We won’t ,UEFA are pumping up the prize money to suit the Giants of European football to stop any thoughts of breakaway leagues etc. do you think Scottish team will be given a second thought ? Unless we get a Saudi billionaire on board we won’t see Europe group stage football ever not in the market we shop in, even the uglies will struggle to qualify, unless they go all in and spend spend spend , so in answer to your question of course the coefficient matters by unless Rangers go further than every Czech team in Europe then it’s goosed , I’m not thick I’m just being logical, I'll keep it simple; Drop in coefficient = less chance of group stage football = less European money for Hearts You may not want Rangers/Celtic to do well in Europe, and it does stick in the throat, but the money they earn from doing so makes hee haw difference to us winning the league, but it makes a huge difference to our turnover. It's not difficult to understand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EH11 2NL Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 Need a league where we don't play them combined 8 times in a season. If the league was structured to play each team home and away, we'd finish much closer to them. Problem is a lot of the bottom half of such a league would be whipping boys home and away for probably the top 4 or 5 making it a bit daft. But anything has to be better than the current set up, surely. 30 odd years since someone else won the league, we're in the territory that realistically no one outside them will ever win it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buzzbomb1958 Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 Just now, Chuck Berry said: I'll keep it simple; Drop in coefficient = less chance of group stage football = less European money for Hearts You may not want Rangers/Celtic to do well in Europe, and it does stick in the throat, but the money they earn from doing so makes hee haw difference to us winning the league, but it makes a huge difference to our turnover. It's not difficult to understand. I just explained to you UEFA are making it harder to qualify for their competitions, read what I wrote we won’t qualify as we are unless we have a massive injection of cash ffs we can hardly beat the 9 teams below us as it is , I’m talking the season after next even the uglies will toil to get champions league football stop over egging it read the post properly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buzzbomb1958 Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 5 minutes ago, EH11 2NL said: Need a league where we don't play them combined 8 times in a season. If the league was structured to play each team home and away, we'd finish much closer to them. Problem is a lot of the bottom half of such a league would be whipping boys home and away for probably the top 4 or 5 making it a bit daft. But anything has to be better than the current set up, surely. 30 odd years since someone else won the league, we're in the territory that realistically no one outside them will ever win it. SFA LOVE THIS SET UP IT WONT CHANGE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Berry Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 (edited) 21 minutes ago, buzzbomb1958 said: I just explained to you UEFA are making it harder to qualify for their competitions, read what I wrote we won’t qualify as we are unless we have a massive injection of cash ffs we can hardly beat the 9 teams below us as it is , I’m talking the season after next even the uglies will toil to get champions league football stop over egging it read the post properly Qualifying is based on Scotland's coefficient, the higher you are in the coefficient table, the easier it is to get group stage football in all three competitions. If the OF don't get CL football because the Czechs overtake us (which you want) and we drop down a few places, then it has knock-on effects for the Europa and Conference Leagues as well the further we fall. It's a simple concept to understand, or it should be. Edited February 25 by Chuck Berry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Australis Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 Nobody outside the old firm will win the league, ever again. Finance and officials will make it like that. Only if they leave for the English or European leagues will that change. Imagine in 100 years looking at the past winners of our league. 50 wins for the zombies and 50 for the mhanks. But our league will have the same interest and reputation as the Irish and Welsh league long before then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buzzbomb1958 Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 2 minutes ago, Chuck Berry said: Qualifying is based on Scotland's coefficient, the higher you are in the coefficient table, the easier it is to get group stage football in all three competitions. If the OF don't get CL football because the Czechs overtake us (which you want) and we drop down a few places, then it has knock-on effects for the Europa and Conference Leagues as well the further we fall. It's a simple concept to understand, or it should be. Of course it is but there is nothing we can do about the coefficient because Scottish teams have been so shit in Europe, The Czech teams have done much better, Its more to do with UEFA making a bigger purse for the Giants of Europe they are not interested in Scottish teams who are shit in Europe anyway , I could probably lay odds in 2 years time there will be no Scottish clubs in any group phase in Europe unless ,the Saudi sheiks fancy a holiday home in Scotland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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