*****Official Heart of Midlothian v Rangers Match Thread *****

[One five]

10 minutes ago, OmiyaHearts said:

Everyone knows we won't turn up. Even with 4 wins in a row, we'll get pumped.

What bugs me is they play always show up against us 🤦‍♂️

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

1 hour ago, Debut 4 said:

Fair point about the blueprint but it comes back to the percentages thing.

 

You are still going to lose most of the time v the old firm but how do you increase your chances of sniffing out an odd win more often?  It’s always been hard work and a willingness to basically run yourself ragged.  
 

You just have to look over history at our better moments against them. Of course, I’m not ignoring shape and quality but that’s nothing without hard work and a willingness and presence of mind to always be active and sometimes take that chance to chase a lost cause.  

Its the balance between headless chicken and passive. Get it right there is always a chance at home

[Bazzas right boot]

2 hours ago, Lord Beni of Gorgie said:

I dont rate Aberdeen either, but they surely must be the fittest team in the league. They do an awful lot of running, which helps deny space and win ball back. And for the amount of running they dont seem to pick up any injuries.

 

Not sure we have the personnel to mimic their method of stopping them, however, they did lose 6 to Celtic, so its hardly a blueprint either.

 

 

Maybe, but tbh the last game in Aberdeen Rangers passed up numerous chances.

 

It was more Rangers passing up opportunities as opposesd to Aberdeen being good, especially from the Aberdeen goal onwards. 

 

Imo most results against the OF rely on them missing their chances, very rarely are they restricted or out played in any way.

 

 

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

Just now, Bazzas right boot said:

 

 

Maybe, but tbh the last game in Aberdeen Rangers passed up numerous chances.

 

It was more Rangers passing up opportunities as opposesd to Aberdeen being good, especially from the Aberdeen goal onwards. 

 

Imo most results against the OF rely on them missing their chances, very rarely are they restricted or out played in any way.

 

 

Only tends to happen when they are caught unawares, arrogance spills through. They tend always to have 60% possession and over and 20 efforts on goal. Some new stats, touches in box is quite a good one, its limiting those

[Luckies1874]

49 minutes ago, indianajones said:

Ticket exchange open for this one? 

 

No chance. Nearly 700 tickets still available. 

[karipidis]

Liam Boyce and Cammy Devlin are out, while Craig Halkett, Barrie McKay and Craig Gordon are "in contention". 😱😱

[wavydavy]

20 minutes ago, karipidis said:

Liam Boyce and Cammy Devlin are out, while Craig Halkett, Barrie McKay and Craig Gordon are "in contention". 😱😱

 

It would be madness to consider any of them in this game. 

[Jim Panzee]

2 minutes ago, wavydavy said:

 

It would be madness to consider any of them in this game. 

suspect it's to perhaps make sevco think.

 

which.....if they did, they'd probably think "so what"....

[Nerja Jambo]

1 hour ago, One five said:

What bugs me is they play always show up against us 🤦‍♂️

It may be looks that way, but it is equally down to use not showing up against them.

[indianajones]

1 hour ago, Luckies1874 said:

 

No chance. Nearly 700 tickets still available. 

 

Cheers Luckies. 

 

Another game I can't attend! 

[PapaShango]

1 hour ago, karipidis said:

Liam Boyce and Cammy Devlin are out, while Craig Halkett, Barrie McKay and Craig Gordon are "in contention". 😱😱

Where are you hearing this? I can't see any of them in the match day squad but you never know. Even Gordon on the bench would be a massive boost to see him out on the grass. 

[Pasquale for King]

4 hours ago, gordon simpson said:

the only way to play them ,give them time and space they will hurt you ,press them and they will be all over the place 

Absolutely 

[Kyle Lafferty HoMSC]

28 minutes ago, PapaShango said:

Where are you hearing this? I can't see any of them in the match day squad but you never know. Even Gordon on the bench would be a massive boost to see him out on the grass. 

Naismith said it to Hearts TV. 

[PapaShango]

5 minutes ago, Kyle Lafferty HoMSC said:

Naismith said it to Hearts TV. 

They must be closer than was being reported in the media then which is good. As much as we have missed Gordon and Halkett, we've missed McKay big time IMO, especially in tight games where teams sit in, he can be the difference with one pass. 

[Hungry hippo]

Sounds like a couple on the bench maybe. Copied from Hearts Standard which I'd 100% recommend:

 

Edited December 5, 2023 by Hungry hippo

[Kyle Lafferty HoMSC]

7 minutes ago, PapaShango said:

They must be closer than was being reported in the media then which is good. As much as we have missed Gordon and Halkett, we've missed McKay big time IMO, especially in tight games where teams sit in, he can be the difference with one pass. 

McKay and Atkinson (surprisingly) have been huge misses imo. 

Agree fully about McKay, think he could hopefully put an end to our relative struggles in front of goal.

[PapaShango]

1 minute ago, Kyle Lafferty HoMSC said:

McKay and Atkinson (surprisingly) have been huge misses imo. 

Agree fully about McKay, think he could hopefully put an end to our relative struggles in front of goal.

The games against Livi and St Johnstone were games where he is missed the most when teams sit in and leave little space. Having Mckay to play one pass can be the difference. He's not at it all the time but when he plays well we inevitably makes chances and score goals. 

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

How exciting todays news, both Craigs and Barrie, what additions to the squad for this period. Getting Atkinson back would balance things out better on the right also

[RustyRightPeg]

10 minutes ago, Kyle Lafferty HoMSC said:

McKay and Atkinson (surprisingly) have been huge misses imo. 

Agree fully about McKay, think he could hopefully put an end to our relative struggles in front of goal.

McKay being a miss should be a surprise to no one with a footballing brain.

[joondalupjambo]

9 minutes ago, PapaShango said:

The games against Livi and St Johnstone were games where he is missed the most when teams sit in and leave little space. Having Mckay to play one pass can be the difference. He's not at it all the time but when he plays well we inevitably makes chances and score goals. 

Has he ever been at it against Rangers or Celtic?  I like him but has he seems to be usually at his best against the lower teams?  The annoying thing against these two teams is that everyone has to be on there game and more.  They come to us pumped up, which might be because they respect us but also because they want to put us in a box.  We need to find a way to break this horrible, what seems like a never ending cycle or we will never progress.

[RDSK]

5 minutes ago, joondalupjambo said:

Has he ever been at it against Rangers or Celtic?  I like him but has he seems to be usually at his best against the lower teams?  The annoying thing against these two teams is that everyone has to be on there game and more.  They come to us pumped up, which might be because they respect us but also because they want to put us in a box.  We need to find a way to break this horrible, what seems like a never ending cycle or we will never progress.

Remember Barrie being quite good at Ibrox when Halkett scored a last minute equaliser. Other than than he hasn’t really turned up. 
 

Before Barrie we’d been missing a player who could really unlock a resolute opposition defence for years. I’d pick him every week against the other 9 teams.

[HopeDiouf]

14 minutes ago, joondalupjambo said:

Has he ever been at it against Rangers or Celtic?  I like him but has he seems to be usually at his best against the lower teams?  The annoying thing against these two teams is that everyone has to be on there game and more.  They come to us pumped up, which might be because they respect us but also because they want to put us in a box.  We need to find a way to break this horrible, what seems like a never ending cycle or we will never progress.

Lot easier to be a breaker upper than a creator when up against better players.

[Corstorphine Jambo]

Over the last couple of seasons, McKay combining with Cochrane has been just about our most potent attacking weapon. And boy, have we missed McKay's pace in helping get us up the pitch.

[GinRummy]

51 minutes ago, Corstorphine Jambo said:

Over the last couple of seasons, McKay combining with Cochrane has been just about our most potent attacking weapon. And boy, have we missed McKay's pace in helping get us up the pitch.

McKay hasn’t had any good games against rangers or celtic as far as I can remember. Happy to be corrected on that. 

[Sooks]

2 hours ago, Jim Panzee said:

suspect it's to perhaps make sevco think.

 

which.....if they did, they'd probably think "so what"....

What a trick that would be . We should follow it up with water in to wine 

[DS98]

1 minute ago, GinRummy said:

McKay hasn’t had any good games against rangers or celtic as far as I can remember. Happy to be corrected on that. 

Quite easily explained. We need the ball for Barrie to be effective. He is what he is and he makes no apologies for it. If we  get him n good areas and with players around him he’s one of the best players in the league. 

[DS98]

I believe all 4 will be involved tomorrow which will be a tremendous boost for everyone. Especially the two Craig’s. That should push Zander and the defence to another level because they know just one poor game and that could be them out of the team for a while. 

Edited December 5, 2023 by DS98

[GinRummy]

1 minute ago, DS98 said:

Quite easily explained. We need the ball for Barrie to be effective. He is what he is and he makes no apologies for it. If we  get him n good areas and with players around him he’s one of the best players in the league. 

If that’s the reason he doesn’t play well then why play him. We’ve played them plenty times where he’s looked an absolute passenger so what’s going to have changed?

[DS98]

2 minutes ago, DS98 said:

Quite easily explained. We need the ball for Barrie to be effective. He is what he is and he makes no apologies for it. If we get him in good areas and with players around him he’s one of the best in the league. 

 

[Byyy The Light]

2 hours ago, Nerja Jambo said:

It may be looks that way, but it is equally down to use not showing up against them.

Nah, my theory is outwith their Glasgow derbies, we’re both clubs biggest league games by a considerable margin so they are always on it against it and up for it. 

 

Certainly more than they are at Killie, Livi or Ross County away. 

[DS98]

Just now, GinRummy said:

If that’s the reason he doesn’t play well then why play him. We’ve played them plenty times where he’s looked an absolute passenger so what’s going to have changed?

Good question. Nothing I suspect and I wouldn’t start him in these games. We probably go into them somewhat naively thinking we’ll see more of the ball than we actually do. It’s horses for courses and you only play Barrie when we’re going to be the dominant team possession wise, which we are 75% of the time. What you don’t do is ask Barrie McKay to man mark, press, harry, tackle etc because it’s not his game. Last season Neilson had him marking Callum McGregor which is madness.

[hearts00]

3 hours ago, karipidis said:

Liam Boyce and Cammy Devlin are out, while Craig Halkett, Barrie McKay and Craig Gordon are "in contention". 😱😱

I just can’t see any of Gordon, Halks, McKay or Atkinson playing before the winter break. 
 

More to the point how does McKay fit into the current shape? Also if Halks comes back where does he play in the back 3 and for who? He should play but you aint dropping Kent. Does Halks play RCB? 

[joondalupjambo]

Shankland first scorer 2-0 is 145/1 and 2-1 is 85/1 so some odds.  Probably reflects the truth but got to be worth even 50p and a £1 respectively.

 

Edit: Sorry that is in Skybet.

Edited December 5, 2023 by joondalupjambo

[RENE]

7 minutes ago, Byyy The Light said:

Nah, my theory is outwith their Glasgow derbies, we’re both clubs biggest league games by a considerable margin so they are always on it against it and up for it. 

 

Certainly more than they are at Killie, Livi or Ross County away. 

The late Jimmy Mann once told me 'the Old Firm always raise their game against us'. He was right then but maybe not so much now.

[GinRummy]

5 minutes ago, DS98 said:

Good question. Nothing I suspect and I wouldn’t start him in these games. We probably go into them somewhat naively thinking we’ll see more of the ball than we actually do. It’s horses for courses and you only play Barrie when we’re going to be the dominant team possession wise, which we are 75% of the time. What you don’t do is ask Barrie McKay to man mark, press, harry, tackle etc because it’s not his game. Last season Neilson had him marking Callum McGregor which is madness.

Aye, I reckon the St Mirren game could maybe be his first start. Be good to have him back, especially for home games as unlocking defences is definitely his game. We’ve missed someone who sees that pass that nobody else sees. 

[GinRummy]

10 minutes ago, Byyy The Light said:

Nah, my theory is outwith their Glasgow derbies, we’re both clubs biggest league games by a considerable margin so they are always on it against it and up for it. 

 

Certainly more than they are at Killie, Livi or Ross County away. 

There might be some truth to that but in recent years we’ve played into their hands at times. The ridiculous midfield selection by Robbie that home game against Huns and continuing with a two man midfield after Beni got injured didn’t help one bit. Getting our bit right gives us a better chance and I actually think the current 3-5-2 shape could work well.  

[Corstorphine Jambo]

27 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

McKay hasn’t had any good games against rangers or celtic as far as I can remember. Happy to be corrected on that. 

He’s certainly not been at his best against the old firm - although as the results show, he’s not on his own there. I was referring more generally to having McKay back available.

[number-16]

18 minutes ago, hearts00 said:

Also if Halks comes back where does he play in the back 3 and for who? He should play but you aint dropping Kent. Does Halks play RCB? 

Halks to RCB and Kingsley to RWB could be an option for some games where we need a strong defence.

[GinRummy]

12 minutes ago, Corstorphine Jambo said:

He’s certainly not been at his best against the old firm - although as the results show, he’s not on his own there. I was referring more generally to having McKay back available.

Aye, just mentioned it because it’s the match day thread. 

[poultry]

2 hours ago, PapaShango said:

Where are you hearing this? I can't see any of them in the match day squad but you never know. Even Gordon on the bench would be a massive boost to see him out on the grass. 

[GinRummy]

Quite a good interview with Naismith on Hearts TV. Main pints already covered in this thread but he dealt with questions well and came across well 

[One five]

3 hours ago, Nerja Jambo said:

It may be looks that way, but it is equally down to use not showing up against them.

Yeah that’s true mate.

[TheBigO]

42 minutes ago, hearts00 said:

I just can’t see any of Gordon, Halks, McKay or Atkinson playing before the winter break. 
 

More to the point how does McKay fit into the current shape? Also if Halks comes back where does he play in the back 3 and for who? He should play but you aint dropping Kent. Does Halks play RCB? 

Yup both good questions. Cant drop Kent, and i dont see him being great at rcb, but Halks can play rcb so both can play. But then you cant drop Kingsley! Squad. There will be niggles.  Lots of games coming up.

 

Mckay is tricky imo. He's best as a wide left out ball imo. Gets lost in the mix centrally. But we're not playing a system with a lw. Hes best in a 442/424 type variation. Again, options i suppose.

[pettigrewsstylist]

50 minutes ago, hearts00 said:

I just can’t see any of Gordon, Halks, McKay or Atkinson playing before the winter break. 
 

More to the point how does McKay fit into the current shape? Also if Halks comes back where does he play in the back 3 and for who? He should play but you aint dropping Kent. Does Halks play RCB? 

Injuries will solve that problem soon enough i suspect.

[Go for it 1308]

59 minutes ago, Byyy The Light said:

Nah, my theory is outwith their Glasgow derbies, we’re both clubs biggest league games by a considerable margin so they are always on it against it and up for it. 

 

Certainly more than they are at Killie, Livi or Ross County away. 

Totally agree with that 👍 

[Cameronstheman]

All we want is a performance, just have right go and see what pans out

 

Water will always find  its level

 

Rangers aint all that 

[Doc Rob]

6 hours ago, OmiyaHearts said:

Everyone knows we won't turn up. Even with 4 wins in a row, we'll get pumped.

You’re most likely right, but the game at Ibrox suggested that maybe it isn’t an absolute foregone conclusion.

[briever]

Nothing in the previous 4 wins suggest we are going to win other than the fact we've won 4 in row. 

 

The huns are nothing special, time for us to really put in a performance this season.

[the posh bit]

1 hour ago, Byyy The Light said:

Nah, my theory is outwith their Glasgow derbies, we’re both clubs biggest league games by a considerable margin so they are always on it against it and up for it. 

 

Certainly more than they are at Killie, Livi or Ross County away. 

 

Maybe 15 years ago, not now. We are very much seen as another diddy. Only one club that can change that. 

[4marsbars]

On 03/12/2023 at 03:15, gregzy2k7 said:

This is the game that Naismith can win the majority of hearts fans over .....

 

 

 

Most of us were won over some time ago. 

 

And will remain won over regardless of what happens tomorrow.