Booing Baningime Backpasses

[BackOfTheNet]

Although we could/should have been on the front foot more and had more pace about our game, the loud vociferous booing when Baningime played a back pass was stupidly over the top. One of them he was facing his own goal to start with and didn’t know what was behind him for crying out loud.

 

So, the booers: Naive fans not knowing how football works, or impatient imbeciles venting? Discuss…

Edited November 26, 2023 by BackOfTheNet

[kingantti1874]

I only recall it happening once.   Cochrane was in about 50 yards of free space on left touchline and about 4 players didn’t spot him and we end up back deep in our own half.

 

it was very poor play all round.  Not sure the booing was aimed at Beni more frustration of how bad it was.

 

that said. I’d never boo my own team so I agree with you on that front. When they went off at half time was a joke.  Supporters my hoop 

[Sherbet]

3 minutes ago, BackOfTheNet said:

Although we could/should have been on the front foot more and had more pace about our game, the loud vociferous booing when Baningime played a back pass was stupidly over the top. One of them he was facing his own goal to start with and didn’t know what was behind him for crying out loud.

 

So, the booers: Naive fans not knowing how football works, or impatient imbeciles venting? Discuss…

Frustration with our tactics. He did it twice in succession.  

[Ford Prentice]

I didn't boo but I did groan and moan and on one occasion swore loudly. St Johnstone were happy to have Kent on the ball and Beni just passed it back to him again and again and again. The time that got the loudest response was a pass back to Kent when Beni was in the opposition half and had clear options ahead, passing back to Kent looked harder than passing it forward. Disappointment with the lack of imagination and bravery on the ball was neither naive nor imbecilic, if anything the crowd was very patient given how bloody awful most of it was to watch.

Edited November 26, 2023 by Ford Prentice
typo

[Sooks]

We have some really grim fans . Booing your own players is idiotic and doing it when they complete a pass to their team mate is even more stupid 

[Rick Sanchez]

I don't understand the people who moan when we're 1-0 up and Kent isn't moving the ball quickly enough.

 

They were still backs to the wall defending. Let him wait as long as it takes for them to come to him so we can draw them out.

 

We're winning 🤷‍♂️

[Byyy The Light]

5 minutes ago, Ford Prentice said:

I didn't boo but I did groan and moan and on one occasion swore loudly. St Johnstone were happy to have Kent on the ball and Beni just passed it back to him again and again and again. The time that got the loudest response was a pass back to Kent when Beni was in the opposition half and had clear options ahead, passing back to Kent looked harder than passing it forward. Disappointment with the lack of imagination and bravey on the ball was neither naive nor imbecilic, if anything the crowd was very patient given how bloody awful most of it was to watch.

This pretty much nails it. Booing is a lot of nonsense but players were taking the easy safe option yesterday. 

Edited November 26, 2023 by Byyy The Light

[Sooks]

Just now, Rick Sanchez said:

I don't understand the people who moan when we're 1-0 up and Kent isn't moving the ball quickly enough.

 

They were still backs to the wall defending. Let him wait as long as it takes for them to come to him so we can draw them out.

 

We're winning 🤷‍♂️

Exactly , it is absolutely stupid 

[brawlad74]

Didn't boo but am hacked off at lack of awareness as to who's on and lack of moment. Apart from great 1st half move Cochrane didn't really overlap and that was down to static front men and poor support from Grant and Lowry. Beni needs to lift his head but others need to move and shout for ball more. Another welcome 3 points tho. 

[kingantti1874]

4 minutes ago, Ford Prentice said:

I didn't boo but I did groan and moan and on one occasion swore loudly. St Johnstone were happy to have Kent on the ball and Beni just passed it back to him again and again and again. The time that got the loudest response was a pass back to Kent when Beni was in the opposition half and had clear options ahead, passing back to Kent looked harder than passing it forward. Disappointment with the lack of imagination and bravery on the ball was neither naive nor imbecilic, if anything the crowd was very patient given how bloody awful most of it was to watch.

St Johnstone had all 11 players behind the ball, some tight some marking space.  They were very solid.  Sometimes you have to be patient. They want you to launch long balls.
 

 

[OTT]

Naismiths talking about players being braver on the ball, and we've seen so often how back passes can set us up to return to a negative rhythm of play - where players begin abdicating responsibility to make something happen. 

 

I know folk will disagree, but I don't have any issue with it. The same fans would cheer to see forward passing and a bit more ambition. 

 

There absolutely is a time to pass the ball back, but the boos haven't come from nowhere, everyone knows what ends up happening when we keep passing the ball back - get more and more negative and lacking in ambition. 

[Sooks]

1 minute ago, kingantti1874 said:

St Johnstone had all 11 players behind the ball, some tight some marking space.  They were very solid.  Sometimes you have to be patient. They want you to launch long balls.
 

 

Spot on

[Thomaso]

16 minutes ago, BackOfTheNet said:

Although we could/should have been on the front foot more and had more pace about our game, the loud vociferous booing when Baningime played a back pass was stupidly over the top. One of them he was facing his own goal to start with and didn’t know what was behind him for crying out loud.

 

So, the booers: Naive fans not knowing how football works, or impatient imbeciles venting? Discuss…

It was a build up of fans frustrations over the relentless sideward and backwards passing from our team.

Seems without Ginnelly in the team we no longer play long balls in behind.

[Selkirkhmfc1874]

Not a fan of booing our own players and not something I'd do myself 

[Sooks]

2 minutes ago, OTT said:

Naismiths talking about players being braver on the ball, and we've seen so often how back passes can set us up to return to a negative rhythm of play - where players begin abdicating responsibility to make something happen. 

 

I know folk will disagree, but I don't have any issue with it. The same fans would cheer to see forward passing and a bit more ambition. 

 

There absolutely is a time to pass the ball back, but the boos haven't come from nowhere, everyone knows what ends up happening when we keep passing the ball back - get more and more negative and lacking in ambition. 

Beni literally played a fantastic forward through ball in our last game before yesterday which released Shankland and led to a goal 

[Thomaso]

2 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

St Johnstone had all 11 players behind the ball, some tight some marking space.  They were very solid.  Sometimes you have to be patient. They want you to launch long balls.
 

 

Something we did to our advantage with Ginnelly in the team - he’s a big miss!

[Perth to Paisley]

At that point Beni had 20 players ahead of him with little space between them. I would rather he retained possession than 'put it in the mixer' and be subject to a breakaway attack.

There's a time and a place to be 'brave' but this wasn't one of them.

 

 

[OTT]

2 minutes ago, Sooks said:

Beni literally played a fantastic forward through ball in our last game before yesterday which released Shankland and led to a goal 

 

Exactly, so they can do it. Hence the frustration. 

[Sooks]

Just now, Perth to Paisley said:

At that point Beni had 20 players ahead of him with little space between them. I would rather he retained possession than 'put it in the mixer' and be subject to a breakaway attack.

There's a time and a place to be 'brave' but this wasn't one of them.

 

 

I dont know how people can not see or understand this 

[Bazzas right boot]

10 minutes ago, Rick Sanchez said:

I don't understand the people who moan when we're 1-0 up and Kent isn't moving the ball quickly enough.

 

They were still backs to the wall defending. Let him wait as long as it takes for them to come to him so we can draw them out.

 

We're winning 🤷‍♂️

 

10 minutes ago, Sooks said:

We have some really grim fans . Booing your own players is idiotic and doing it when they complete a pass to their team mate is even more stupid 

 

 

Pretty much.

[Bazzas right boot]

1 minute ago, Perth to Paisley said:

At that point Beni had 20 players ahead of him with little space between them. I would rather he retained possession than 'put it in the mixer' and be subject to a breakaway attack.

There's a time and a place to be 'brave' but this wasn't one of them.

 

 

 

Yarp. 

 

[Sooks]

Just now, OTT said:

 

Exactly, so they can do it. Hence the frustration. 

They situations were completely different though if Beni did not pass back at that point he was firing it in to a crowd of St Johnstone players and hoping for the best 

[This is My Story Podcast]

Booing at half time as well 🙈

[Luckies1874]

Don’t think it’s particularly helpful especially when possession is retained and God knows we struggle to do that often enough but the incident being talked about yesterday was simply a build up of frustration and because the player in question took the safe option continually. His confidence is fragile that’s for sure and given previous costly errors this season he’s taking the simple option to avoid any other nightmares. In general we passed the ball to death in nothing areas and after a terrible first 15 minutes of the 2nd half the goal actually halted what was about to become a far more hostile Tynecastle. 

[Bazzas right boot]

9 minutes ago, OTT said:

Naismiths talking about players being braver on the ball, and we've seen so often how back passes can set us up to return to a negative rhythm of play - where players begin abdicating responsibility to make something happen. 

 

I know folk will disagree, but I don't have any issue with it. The same fans would cheer to see forward passing and a bit more ambition. 

 

There absolutely is a time to pass the ball back, but the boos haven't come from nowhere, everyone knows what ends up happening when we keep passing the ball back - get more and more negative and lacking in ambition. 

 

Lacking ambition?

That makes no sense.

 

To make forward passes you generally need movement and space.

Giving the ball away just so the pass is forward is also useless, keeping possession is far better than giving it away, especially when winning.

 

Beni also played a fantastic through ball v Motherwell which led to a goal.

 

Kicking the ball forward just for the sakes of playing it forward is Lacking bravery, intelligence,  courage and ambition.

 

 

[GBJambo]

Beni was great . If he was passing back it was due to there being nothing on forward and surrounded by their players . 
 

It kept possession 

[Bazzas right boot]

6 minutes ago, Sooks said:

They situations were completely different though if Beni did not pass back at that point he was firing it in to a crowd of St Johnstone players and hoping for the best 

 

How folk can't see that is beyond me.

 

It's frustrating,  but that was saint's game plan, even at 0-1.

 

 

[Lord Montpelier]

He was passing backwards quite a bit

 

But don't think need to be overly critical, he also made two forward passes in the build up to the goal... 

[kingantti1874]

17 minutes ago, Thomaso said:

Something we did to our advantage with Ginnelly in the team - he’s a big miss!

a huge miss.  That said. You can’t play a long ball with 20 players in one half of the pitch. 

[Russ1977]

20 minutes ago, Thomaso said:

It was a build up of fans frustrations over the relentless sideward and backwards passing from our team.

Seems without Ginnelly in the team we no longer play long balls in behind.

With shankland and Boyce up front it’s pointless playing balls in behind as they’ve zero pace. 

[Russ1977]

2 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

a huge miss.  That said. You can’t play a long ball with 20 players in one half of the pitch. 

In games like yesterday it would be handy having a target man on the bench to bring on and give us a different option. Shankland and Boyce are both good players but they are very similar. 

[Bazzas right boot]

9 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

a huge miss.  That said. You can’t play a long ball with 20 players in one half of the pitch. 

 

Quite, a long ball and getting behind wasn't an option yesterday.

 

 

[Bazzas right boot]

9 minutes ago, Russ1977 said:

With shankland and Boyce up front it’s pointless playing balls in behind as they’ve zero pace. 

 

Did you see you Shanklands 2nd goal last week?

[John Findlay]

Yesterday's game was crying out for a John Souttar type Centre Back. For all his good points, Frankie Kent's two major flaws are his diagonal passing and coming out the back with the ball at his feet. He doesn't trust himself to come over the halfway line with the ball at his feet. He can't diagonal pass with the same accuracy as John Souttar. Two things he has to work far more on, on the training ground.

[Russ1977]

1 minute ago, Bazzas right boot said:

 

Did you see you Shanklands 2nd goal last week?

The kind of ball in behind we are talking about is the ones we would play to Gino to stretch teams. Shanklands goal last week was from us winning the ball higher up the park and playing a through ball. 

[Bazzas right boot]

1 minute ago, Russ1977 said:

The kind of ball in behind we are talking about is the ones we would play to Gino to stretch teams. Shanklands goal last week was from us winning the ball higher up the park and playing a through ball. 

 

We do miss a pacey striker,  but not yesterday.

There was no space behind yesterday to play balls behind.

 

I'd like us to have the option.

 

[Jambof3tornado]

36 minutes ago, Sooks said:

Beni literally played a fantastic forward through ball in our last game before yesterday which released Shankland and led to a goal 

Yup,he's a forward pass in his locker,but it needs to come out his locker more often. The safe ball keeps possession but theres often a forward option that he and others fail to take up.

[kingantti1874]

7 minutes ago, Bazzas right boot said:

 

We do miss a pacey striker,  but not yesterday.

There was no space behind yesterday to play balls behind.

 

I'd like us to have the option.

 

what is required in these circumstances is width, players who can beat a man, and players who can pick a pass. 
 

we were far to narrow, Forrest was poor and had no one going beyond him. Lowry, Grant, Shankland and Boyce all want to drop off and play in the same areas.  They try no to but that is their natural inclination 

 

these games are tough. We dont make it easy on ourselves though. 

Edited November 26, 2023 by kingantti1874

[BackOfTheNet]

47 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

St Johnstone had all 11 players behind the ball, some tight some marking space.  They were very solid.  Sometimes you have to be patient. They want you to launch long balls.
 

 

There were groans when Oda didn’t take his man on and instead turned back and played it along to Baningime. Two passes later we scored. Sometimes it’s about the right pass, Lowry shows that forward passes aren’t always the right thing to do.

[Debut 4]

I can be the biggest moaner but wtf was the booing all about at half time and during the game?  Some fans are losing it.  
 

Yes, you have the right to moan and groan, I did a few times, but booing ffs?

 

We weren’t getting beat, we aren’t a bottom of the league team which may give more reason to boo as we’ve seen before in recent years.  I get there may be lingering issues in a lot of fans minds but if it’s starting to transmit to the pitch when it’s not really justified, it’s time for a lie down.  

 

 

[Luckies1874]

17 minutes ago, John Findlay said:

Yesterday's game was crying out for a John Souttar type Centre Back. For all his good points, Frankie Kent's two major flaws are his diagonal passing and coming out the back with the ball at his feet. He doesn't trust himself to come over the halfway line with the ball at his feet. He can't diagonal pass with the same accuracy as John Souttar. Two things he has to work far more on, on the training ground.

If Kent was better on the ball he’d be playing for a big English championship side. He has lots of the other qualities required. 

[kingantti1874]

Just now, Luckies1874 said:

If Kent was better on the ball he’d be playing for a big English championship side. He has lots of the other qualities required. 

In general terms amazing that this still has to be pointed out. 

 

btw he picked a pass first half which if Kevin de bruyne had played it we’d have been watching replayed for weeks. 

[Debut 4]

1 minute ago, Luckies1874 said:

If Kent was better on the ball he’d be playing for a big English championship side. He has lots of the other qualities required. 

The team is on a hiding to nothing in these types of games but what irked me was our drop in individual workrate.  It’s the key in these games.

 

When a team sits in you have to work harder in possession as much as out of it.  Pull people around, get the ball played on even quicker and ripple off that.  
 

Players need to do much more on the ball, not just pass and stand.  
 

It slipped in to a recycling of the ball exercise.  St Johnstone had some wee spells where they worked harder than us, they seemed to find space better than us , be stronger and find each other better in decent positions.  

[john thomas]

20 minutes ago, John Findlay said:

Yesterday's game was crying out for a John Souttar type Centre Back. For all his good points, Frankie Kent's two major flaws are his diagonal passing and coming out the back with the ball at his feet. He doesn't trust himself to come over the halfway line with the ball at his feet. He can't diagonal pass with the same accuracy as John Souttar. Two things he has to work far more on, on the training ground.

Kent is good CH but , when using a defender to make the telling pass/bring ball from defence , Rowles is surely the better option 

[wavydavy]

1 hour ago, BackOfTheNet said:

Although we could/should have been on the front foot more and had more pace about our game, the loud vociferous booing when Baningime played a back pass was stupidly over the top. One of them he was facing his own goal to start with and didn’t know what was behind him for crying out loud.

 

So, the booers: Naive fans not knowing how football works, or impatient imbeciles venting? Discuss…

 

I don't like the thought of our players being booed especially when we don't know what they are being asked to do by the Manager and his Coaches.

 

I really don't see any difference between the way we are playing now than when Robbie was in charge.

 

We have this mindset in the midfield area where players don't want to take anyone on and seem to prefer a sideways or backwards pass.

 

Now why is that? Partly lack of movement and maybe lack of confidence.

 

We really struggle to break down teams that sit in and just as under Robbie we don't seem to have a Plan B.

 

We replace like for like by taking off Forrest and bringing on Oda who now wants to cut inside most of the time making it more congested suiting the defending teams.

 

Surely we should be trying to spread the ball wide quickly and trying to stretch the game. Our main problem with that is Shankland and Boyce are so slow that they wouldn't be anywhere near the box when the crosses come in so we opt for the pedantic back and forward sideways stuff which is frustrating to watch.

 

Hopefully we can show a bit more in our coming games offensively.

[johnking123]

Did not boo. But fed up of team passing back the way when there was a pass going forward. 

[Luckies1874]

1 minute ago, kingantti1874 said:

In general terms amazing that this still has to be pointed out. 

 

btw he picked a pass first half which if Kevin de bruyne had played it we’d have been watching replayed for weeks. 

Yep. 
He isn’t terrible on the ball by any means and frankly dictating play and finding more telling passes is not the job he’s there to do for us. With a better midfield he wouldn’t be required to do what he was being asked to at times yesterday. There was a period in the first half he must have played 3 or 4 diagonals that were just jump balls basically and we don’t have Sandy Clark or Kevin Kyle up there! 

[wavydavy]

14 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

what is required in these circumstances is width, players who can beat a man, and players who can pick a pass. 
 

we were far to narrow, Forrest was poor and had no one going beyond him. Lowry, Grant, Shankland and Boyce all want to drop off and play in the same areas.  They try no to but that is their natural inclination 

 

these games are tough. We dont make it easy on ourselves though. 

 

Agree. Width and move the ball quicker into the wide areas to stretch the game more. That sort of play gets the crowd behind the team as well.

[Archie White]

55 minutes ago, Thomaso said:

Something we did to our advantage with Ginnelly in the team - he’s a big miss!

On that very point, I sit near the front at the Hearts dugout and when Kent had the ball in his own half first half, Forrest was continually making Ginnellyesque runs that Kent either ignored, did not see or did not have the skill to make the pass. The 2nd half booing was not at Beni personally, just crowd frustration at the lack of awareness by so many average players.

[DS98]

57 minutes ago, Thomaso said:

It was a build up of fans frustrations over the relentless sideward and backwards passing from our team.

Seems without Ginnelly in the team we no longer play long balls in behind.

Not sure if you noticed but St Johnstone defence sat more or less on the 18 yard line all game. Up until the last 10 mins there wasn’t an opportunity. De Bruyne would have struggled to play a ball over the top yesterday. We had to be patient and try and play through them. That’s why Naisy went with ball players over pace. Unfortunately that’s how 10/12 teams will shape up against us at Tynie. Probably why we’re better away from home this season.