Massive clear out required immediately.

[AC Mallin_51]

6 minutes ago, Bazzas right boot said:

 

Yet entirely predictable.

 

Clubs like Aberdeen went through it after McInnes,  hibs after Jack, even Rangers after Gerrard.

 

Even big clubs like Arsenal, man utd, Aston villa, Spurs,  taken a few attempts when they tried to reshuffle things.

Ajax after a 3rd place finish this season.

 

It's not easy to replicate any sort of relative success,  no idea why fans and boardrooms don't realise this.

 

It's infuriating and obvious.

 

When sacking people, it should be for a very good reason. 

Cathro after destroying the original bob team, Cl bottoming out after a round of fixtures , stendel after taking us bottom- all obvious.

 

Dropping from 3rd to 4th......

 

We're close to  turning  a dressing room divide and poor form into a full blown crisis.

 

 

Hard to disagree

[Carter]

6 minutes ago, AC Mallin_51 said:

We’ve got 6th place written all over us. It reeks of the sub standard crap we saw in 17/18 & 18/19. We regressed after Neilson’s departure the first time which was frustrating but to do it again after his second departure is infuriating 

If you read stuff on here its pretty clear people evaluate of performance in the Budge era through the prism of the two Neilson spells. He should never have come back for a second spell. It just spoke to a terrible lack of imagination and ambition. I fully appreciate many folk will disagree with that assessment, as it their right. Hearts really should've moved on and seen year in year improvement. Instead we've wasted millions and never managed to capitalise on the undoubted financial prosperity we hold over our direct rivals. 

 

If this club had been managed competently we would still finish a long way behind the uglies. But we would be producing young players who could come into the side and make an impact before moving for good fees. We would be looking at year on year European participation which would allow us to improve the squad and benefit therefore from player trading upside. We've done none of that.

 

I keep reading about the apparent ceiling of ambition and capability of this club through the prism of historical under achievement. I genuinely don't think most fans appreciate the magnitude of what happened during the insolvency event of 2013. This club had been a financial basket case for decades. We managed to extricate ourselves from over £25M of debt burden, something that pre the opaque Romanov ownership was costing us over £1M a year merely to cover the interest on that debt burden to BoS alone. So when folk go on about how often we've managed to finish 3rd over the past 50+ years, it's really massively skewed. We had a great financial reset opportunity since 2014 and we've failed spectacularly to make any advantage of it. 

[AC Mallin_51]

2 minutes ago, Carter said:

If you read stuff on here its pretty clear people evaluate of performance in the Budge era through the prism of the two Neilson spells. He should never have come back for a second spell. It just spoke to a terrible lack of imagination and ambition. I fully appreciate many folk will disagree with that assessment, as it their right. Hearts really should've moved on and seen year in year improvement. Instead we've wasted millions and never managed to capitalise on the undoubted financial prosperity we hold over our direct rivals. 

 

If this club had been managed competently we would still finish a long way behind the uglies. But we would be producing young players who could come into the side and make an impact before moving for good fees. We would be looking at year on year European participation which would allow us to improve the squad and benefit therefore from player trading upside. We've done none of that.

 

I keep reading about the apparent ceiling of ambition and capability of this club through the prism of historical under achievement. I genuinely don't think most fans appreciate the magnitude of what happened during the insolvency event of 2013. This club had been a financial basket case for decades. We managed to extricate ourselves from over £25M of debt burden, something that pre the opaque Romanov ownership was costing us over £1M a year merely to cover the interest on that debt burden to BoS alone. So when folk go on about how often we've managed to finish 3rd over the past 50+ years, it's really massively skewed. We had a great financial reset opportunity since 2014 and we've failed spectacularly to make any advantage of it. 

A lot of good points, agree with a lot of it. Personally for me I thought neilson coming back when we ended up back in the championship was a decent move but I completely get where you’re coming from, as you said it very much lacked any imagination. Thankfully we are miles past the events of admin and the potential extinction event, we’ve moved on fantastically off the park and credit where credit is due on that. However you hit the nail on head, 2014 was a giant reset button, clean slate, no debt as the 3rd biggest club, with the 3rd biggest support. It was a real chance to kick on

[OTT]

9 minutes ago, AC Mallin_51 said:

We’ve got 6th place written all over us. It reeks of the sub standard crap we saw in 17/18 & 18/19. We regressed after Neilson’s departure the first time was frustrating but to do it again after his second departure is infuriating 

 

Yep. Hard to get away from the feeling this will be a lacklustre and utterly forgettable season of mediocrity (doing a ****ing rain dance to eat those words btw 🙏)

 

I think the board have badly let us down with the Naismith appointment. 

 

If there was a fear he'd have walked, then we should have let him walk. We needed experience. 

 

30 minutes ago, Rods said:

 

The Devlin point lays bare the issue. We are buying players as projects hoping they are getting a sell on value. Yes there should be a couple of projects but they should be aligned with consistent SPFL performers. It seems as a footballing side we have forgotten the SPFL still needs to be played and a lot of the players that have come in are being allowed 6-12 months to settle. 

 

It all has similarities to the Levien DOF/Coach era. 

 

The minute there is injuries to our main players or we lose a main player the backup squad of projects with the remit of fitting in to the team in the future send the team sideways. 

 

Joe Savage is to blame for this as was Levein they are both looking for vanity projects players rather than building a squad fit for the SPFL. This is probably down to having to much sway art the club due to their relationship with Budge.

 

We by now should have an SPFL level player in every position x2 

 

 

 

See the whole idea of buying projects and such, its basically built on the premise that your coaching will improve them. We've then cheaped out on the coach. I mean WTF. The logic doesn't flow. 

 

You buy projects, because they're cheaper and have a higher talent ceiling than 27-31 year olds in our budget. The one area you cannot cheap out on is the coaching staff. You need a quality manager, you need a quality coaching team. 

[Selkirkhmfc1874]

46 minutes ago, Carter said:

I've seen nothing to date under Naismith to suggest 3rd is likely. We're probably on a points per game ratio which would suggest top 6 finish is in the balance as things stand. The next sequence of 11 games after next Wednesday may yield even less points. The Board will not want to admit they've been wrong with Naismith given the job titles charade etc. Therefore I'd expect this to go on for a while yet. After all this is a group of people who didn't consider a 5-0 defeat at Livingston as a red line and went on to oversee a relegation 16 months later. 

Sad state of affairs buddy 

[Rods]

52 minutes ago, Sooks said:

So are “ projects “ just any player from abroad now or what 

No there are foreign players who can hit the ground running. 
 

Just not at Hearts due to our Joe Savage vanity project.

 

 

 

 

[Sooks]

16 minutes ago, Rods said:

No there are foreign players who can hit the ground running. 
 

Just not at Hearts due to our Joe Savage vanity project.

 

 

 

 

Okay 

[Carter]

50 minutes ago, Selkirkhmfc1874 said:

Sad state of affairs buddy 

Desperate, mate. Our fans tolerate it though 🤷‍♂️

[Selkirkhmfc1874]

1 minute ago, Carter said:

Desperate, mate. Our fans tolerate it though 🤷‍♂️

We certainly do have some that just accept mediocrity that's for sure! 

[leginten]

1 hour ago, Carter said:

If you read stuff on here its pretty clear people evaluate of performance in the Budge era through the prism of the two Neilson spells. He should never have come back for a second spell. It just spoke to a terrible lack of imagination and ambition. I fully appreciate many folk will disagree with that assessment, as it their right. Hearts really should've moved on and seen year in year improvement. Instead we've wasted millions and never managed to capitalise on the undoubted financial prosperity we hold over our direct rivals. 

 

If this club had been managed competently we would still finish a long way behind the uglies. But we would be producing young players who could come into the side and make an impact before moving for good fees. We would be looking at year on year European participation which would allow us to improve the squad and benefit therefore from player trading upside. We've done none of that.

 

I keep reading about the apparent ceiling of ambition and capability of this club through the prism of historical under achievement. I genuinely don't think most fans appreciate the magnitude of what happened during the insolvency event of 2013. This club had been a financial basket case for decades. We managed to extricate ourselves from over £25M of debt burden, something that pre the opaque Romanov ownership was costing us over £1M a year merely to cover the interest on that debt burden to BoS alone. So when folk go on about how often we've managed to finish 3rd over the past 50+ years, it's really massively skewed. We had a great financial reset opportunity since 2014 and we've failed spectacularly to make any advantage of it. 

Good post. What you say in the last paragraph cannot be stated too loudly or too often. Right now is when the club should be fighting like there is no tomorrow to pull clear of the other nine. All the conditions are right for us to take that step, if only we have the right people running the show.

 

To hell with the philosophy of despair and the “we’ve always been mediocre, the next level is unattainable, know your place and suck it up” crap.

[sac]

4 minutes ago, Carter said:

Desperate, mate. Our fans tolerate it though 🤷‍♂️

Since the sixties, we have underachieved for a club our size, we had a couple of chances to win the league, should have had a couple of league cups and maybe another couple of Scottish cups but came up short.

We play the OF 8 times a season and barely lay a glove on them and that isn’t going to change for the foreseeable, so we’re not winning the league, and if we get drawn against the OF in the cups we need the stars to align to get past them.

I agree we shouldn’t tolerate poor performances, but we’re a long way away from being where we should be.

[Carter]

9 minutes ago, sac said:

Since the sixties, we have underachieved for a club our size, we had a couple of chances to win the league, should have had a couple of league cups and maybe another couple of Scottish cups but came up short.

We play the OF 8 times a season and barely lay a glove on them and that isn’t going to change for the foreseeable, so we’re not winning the league, and if we get drawn against the OF in the cups we need the stars to align to get past them.

I agree we shouldn’t tolerate poor performances, but we’re a long way away from being where we should be.

There's a huge opportunity that's come following the 2013 reboot though. That should've been a profound turning point. Instead we appear to consider what might be possible based on how tangibly little we've achieved historically. It's a comfort blanket for too many, including our Chair. 

[soonbe110]

9 hours ago, Carter said:

Always a difficult window as you say. I'll be truly amazed if Naismith is still here on 1st January.

So will I. 

[soonbe110]

8 hours ago, Luckies1874 said:

 

I feel like I've heard this before!  😂

One year we will get it right. 

[Central Belt 1874]

1 hour ago, OTT said:

 

Yep. Hard to get away from the feeling this will be a lacklustre and utterly forgettable season of mediocrity (doing a ****ing rain dance to eat those words btw 🙏)

 

I think the board have badly let us down with the Naismith appointment. 

 

If there was a fear he'd have walked, then we should have let him walk. We needed experience. 

 

 

See the whole idea of buying projects and such, its basically built on the premise that your coaching will improve them. We've then cheaped out on the coach. I mean WTF. The logic doesn't flow. 

 

You buy projects, because they're cheaper and have a higher talent ceiling than 27-31 year olds in our budget. The one area you cannot cheap out on is the coaching staff. You need a quality manager, you need a quality coaching team. 

 

Great post. I'd argue when Neilson left us fist time around we made a massive mistake not bringing in the experience we required at management level. We are paying the price still to this day on the pitch. 

35 minutes ago, leginten said:

Good post. What you say in the last paragraph cannot be stated too loudly or too often. Right now is when the club should be fighting like there is no tomorrow to pull clear of the other nine. All the conditions are right for us to take that step, if only we have the right people running the show.

 

To hell with the philosophy of despair and the “we’ve always been mediocre, the next level is unattainable, know your place and suck it up” crap.

 

Absolutely. We'll said. 

[Korky]

On 23/10/2023 at 23:17, Bazzas right boot said:

 

 

Or we might have beaten hibs twice and finished 3rd.

No one will ever know

 

It's speculation either way.

 

 

 

Yes, but having lost 6 on the bounce I know where I’d have bet my money.

[Bazzas right boot]

3 minutes ago, Korky said:

Yes, but having lost 6 on the bounce I know where I’d have bet my money.

 

Football is a funny game, my guess is we'd have at least  taken 4 from hibs.

 

Edited October 26, 2023 by Bazzas right boot

[Aussie Jambo]

On 24/10/2023 at 07:20, OTT said:

 

I don't understand how this keeps happening. Stendel spotted it straight away after picking up from Levein. Then Robbie comes out with this bollocks to justify NOT doing the extra fitness sessions he did in 2014 as the squad was older so needed more rest. 

 

At our level, we're not good enough to coast on technical ability. Fitness is absolutely essential, and its insane that our managers haven't taken it seriously. 

👏👏 spot on

[Seymour M Hersh]

On 28/10/2023 at 22:31, Aussie Jambo said:

👏👏 spot on

 

Is it still spot on? Asking for a friend. 

[Bull's-eye]

JKB at its finest !!

[Ked]

On 25/10/2023 at 10:20, Carter said:

Always a difficult window as you say. I'll be truly amazed if Naismith is still here on 1st January.

😁

[Ked]

14 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

Is it still spot on? Asking for a friend. 

Well played

[trotter]

Somewhat telling that the prolific posters on this thread some to have been conspicuously absent of late. 

 

Wonder why. Can't be a coincidence Shirley? 

[GinRummy]

On 23/10/2023 at 13:29, Lightbulb said:

Indeed - a clear out of the arseholes who frequent kickback calling for everyones head because we lost a game. As others have commented...Get real !

A few belting comments on here (myself included 😂). Lightbulb had a lightbulb moment in the midst of all the doom and gloom. 

[Mikey1874]

On 23/10/2023 at 06:57, Selkirkhmfc1874 said:

This shit show can't go on any longer! From the top down heads must roll and now not weeks or months down the line.

Chief executive and sporting director should be utterly ashamed of themselves for appointing a manager who's only experience was managing the b team and without even the required qualifications to manage in Europe, total gross incompetence and they should be out the door this morning.

Naismith is so far out his depth it's untrue and him , McAvoy and Forrest should be out the door this morning aswell and we should be speaking to people like Jim Jefferies to help lead the search for a proper experienced management team with a track record befitting the 3rd biggest club in Scotland with the best supporters in the world.

This downright stupid experiment has got to be stopped now and people who sanctioned it held accountable because who could trust them to get next appointment correct?

Empty seats yesterday shows to me apathy has set in and it will only grow if this lot of charlatans are allowed to continue selling us short.

It's all very well growing income streams but this lot are wasting money at an alarming rate on experiments and absolute dross football players.

Get them to fcuk this morning.

 

Yeah.

 

Sport can take time to get right. Was still a risky appointment but there is something about Naismith. Speak to Gary Locke if you get a chance. 

[OTT]

In complete fairness, I think a lot of us are still reeling from the utter shambles under Levein. Competent football people that know what they're doing is something of a surprise  

 

I'm over the moon for Naisy, he's really got to grips with things, and I think he'll deliver us silverware. I think the challenge comes if we need to replace Shankland. Probably why retaining him is so crucial. Most managers need to worry about where the goals are coming from. With Shanks in the team, that burden is completely and utterly lifted. The challenge then becomes, how do we effectively break teams down to create openings for our prolific striker and stopping goals going in at the other end of the pitch. 

 

3 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

Yeah.

 

Sport can take time to get right. Was still a risky appointment but there is something about Naismith. Speak to Gary Locke if you get a chance. 

 

What has Gary Locke said out of interest?  - Imagine it was along the lines of give him time?

[Mikey1874]

On 23/10/2023 at 07:14, BackOfTheNet said:

As with conversations around sacking management, a clear out is only useful if you replace with better. Clear out for the sake of it is no good. As there’s a higher chance of us getting worse than better if we do it that way. And a club our size is not going to pay massive amounts in compensation and redundancies, and then pay massive amounts to replace them with quality.
 

However, management is one place they could do that, given the inexperience and short term deal of the contract. But we had the opportunity to go down a more experienced route, and we didn’t. (Although I understood at the time as it looked like we were on the right trajectory) But now is the time to seek someone who not only has his sea legs, but has a team of people he can bring in to help implement a philosophy. Not saying we can have a Steve Clarke at Kilmarnock style appointment, but it’s possible to get much, much better out of the players currently at the club than we are.

 

We did have that chance.

 

It's a good debate the balance between experience and football nous. 

 

You can point to examples both ways. Guardiola, we had Alex MacDonald. Not sure what the stats say. Most experienced managers have good and bad. Mourinho just now. 

 

But you can judge the character of someone.

[BigAlim]

11 minutes ago, trotter said:

Somewhat telling that the prolific posters on this thread some to have been conspicuously absent of late. 

 

Wonder why. Can't be a coincidence Shirley? 

Massive clear out 

[Mikey1874]

Just now, OTT said:

In complete fairness, I think a lot of us are still reeling from the utter shambles under Levein. Competent football people that know what they're doing is something of a surprise  

 

I'm over the moon for Naisy, he's really got to grips with things, and I think he'll deliver us silverware. I think the challenge comes if we need to replace Shankland. Probably why retaining him is so crucial. Most managers need to worry about where the goals are coming from. With Shanks in the team, that burden is completely and utterly lifted. The challenge then becomes, how do we effectively break teams down to create openings for our prolific striker and stopping goals going in at the other end of the pitch. 

 

 

What has Gary Locke said out of interest?  - Imagine it was along the lines of give him time?

 

Gary was captain of Kilmarnock when Naismith joined the first team as a 19 year old. He can tell you how professional, committed and clever he was then. 

[OTT]

Just now, Mikey1874 said:

 

Gary was captain of Kilmarnock when Naismith joined the first team as a 19 year old. He can tell you how professional, committed and clever he was then. 

 

Ahhh gotcha  

 

Yeah, I think a good sign of Naismiths credibility was Steve Clarke having him with the national team. With all the connections he has in the game, Naismith being his pick for one of his number 2s was quite a statement. Suspect nobody has a bad work to say about his professionalism. 

 

I hope we can see him really build something here. 

[Jambo in Bathgate]

3 minutes ago, OTT said:

 

Ahhh gotcha  

 

Yeah, I think a good sign of Naismiths credibility was Steve Clarke having him with the national team. With all the connections he has in the game, Naismith being his pick for one of his number 2s was quite a statement. Suspect nobody has a bad work to say about his professionalism. 

 

I hope we can see him really build something here. 

I’m sure JJ and Gary Locke would have had input into the due diligence regarding Naismith’s appointment. Also he has done a job on reviving the majority of the squad that let themselves down in the final round of games before the split. His additions have also improved the squad along with not being afraid to play academy players 

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

One of those threads that, when bumped, you are glad you went nowhere near originally.

 

[Jack Torrance]

Congratulations on the thread bump of the season. 😆 

[Carter]

33 minutes ago, Ked said:

😁

Wasn't looking good earlier in the season. The turnaround has been incredible and long may it continue. 

[Ked]

Just now, Carter said:

Wasn't looking good earlier in the season. The turnaround has been incredible and long may it continue. 

Mate .

I was miffed as well.

It's funny .

I was actually raging for a week or two.

😄

As if i wasn't radge enough I watch a team like ours.

It's the only way though no?

[dc-jambo]

Top bump. So revealing 👍

[upgotheheads]

36 minutes ago, trotter said:

Somewhat telling that the prolific posters on this thread some to have been conspicuously absent of late. 

 

Wonder why. Can't be a coincidence Shirley? 

 

 

Don't keep calling me Shirley.

[Fxxx the SPFL]

Would be nice if some of the folks who slagged off the club possibly came back on and ate a bit of humble pie.

[Bull's-eye]

2 minutes ago, **** the SPFL said:

Would be nice if some of the folks who slagged off the club possibly came back on and ate a bit of humble pie.

 

Dont worry, they'll be back next time we draw.

[Selkirkhmfc1874]

3 minutes ago, **** the SPFL said:

Would be nice if some of the folks who slagged off the club possibly came back on and ate a bit of humble pie.

Personally already have

[dannymack]

How opinions have changed

 

Edited February 13 by dannymack

[Fxxx the SPFL]

2 minutes ago, Selkirkhmfc1874 said:

Personally already have

👍

[Dazo]

What a delightful read. The slavers from the kickback peps. 

[Jack Torrance]

19 minutes ago, Selkirkhmfc1874 said:

Personally already have

 

You had a fair rage through a few posts on here. Its been funny reading through it again though. The benefits of hindsight. Fair play for holding your hands up! 👍

Edited February 13 by Jack Torrance

[Malinga the Swinga]

On 25/10/2023 at 15:45, MR INCREDIBLE said:

Does exist !

Probably pissed off he can’t get a game before an overweight,slow and huffy striker that seems undroppable !

Wonder who this is referring to? Overweight, slow and huffy apparently. That's some description of a guy who is banging then in right, left and centre.

[Vlad Magic]

Lessons learned chaps?

 

Always keep your powder dry!!!

 

 

[GlasgoJambo]

1 hour ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

Is it still spot on? Asking for a friend. 

lol

 

 

[gordon simpson]

On 23/10/2023 at 06:57, Selkirkhmfc1874 said:

This shit show can't go on any longer! From the top down heads must roll and now not weeks or months down the line.

Chief executive and sporting director should be utterly ashamed of themselves for appointing a manager who's only experience was managing the b team and without even the required qualifications to manage in Europe, total gross incompetence and they should be out the door this morning.

Naismith is so far out his depth it's untrue and him , McAvoy and Forrest should be out the door this morning aswell and we should be speaking to people like Jim Jefferies to help lead the search for a proper experienced management team with a track record befitting the 3rd biggest club in Scotland with the best supporters in the world.

This downright stupid experiment has got to be stopped now and people who sanctioned it held accountable because who could trust them to get next appointment correct?

Empty seats yesterday shows to me apathy has set in and it will only grow if this lot of charlatans are allowed to continue selling us short.

It's all very well growing income streams but this lot are wasting money at an alarming rate on experiments and absolute dross football players.

Get them to fcuk this morning.

ffs this man knows what he is talking about  *** tea pot 

[Vlad Magic]

2 minutes ago, gordon simpson said:

ffs this man knows what he is talking about  *** tea pot 

Hearts fan from Selkirk. 
 

Apparently? 🤣

[gordon simpson]

1 minute ago, Vlad Magic said:

Hearts fan from Selkirk. 
 

Apparently? 🤣

aye know diddly squat  about football but rugby now that's a different story