*** Official St Mirren v Heart Of Midlothian thread ***

[poultry]

6 hours ago, OmiyaHearts said:

He looked good. Composed.

👍

[PortyBeach]

7 hours ago, J.T.F.Robertson said:

“fed up with the way we're being run, it's about football not our so-called off-the-field "successes", which appear to take precedence over everything else.”

I understand your point and share your frustration. 
On the other hand, any club needs strong foundations. We had a strong team in 2012 but the club’s foundations had turned to sand and it was all downhill from there.

I reckon if we get the club on a solid, secure, financial footing the football side will ultimately take care of itself.

I agree though things aren’t progressing as well or as fast as we’d like. I also agree with Michael Stewart that the time has come for Budge to turn her skills and acumen to the football side of the operation. I’m sure we can turn this around, but of course as paying customers we want results now.

We should normally expect to beat a St Mirren team but I think we also need a sense of perspective: this is a decent, well-coached, motivated St Mirren team playing with confidence and yesterday’s game was always going to be challenging.

Edited September 24, 2023 by PortyBeach

[Hearts1975]

Never posted anything after the St Midden game. Anything would have just been a rant and moan .... just disappointing all round. 

 

I was fully in support of Naismith and still am to a degree, but at this point, there is no doubt that either the players are not carrying out Naismith's instructions, or the players are incapable of carrying out his instructions. 

 

As the games pass us by I'm really starting to think it is the latter as opposed to the former. That's more of a concern as when I listened to Naismith yesterday you could see his frustration with the players not making the "correct" decisions on the field of play. 

 

Maybe they just aren't clever enough to do what he is asking of them. If he continues to ask them to do the same things, but they continue to do what they are capable of, then it's a bad bad recipe all round. 

 

When Naismith replaced Robbie I just fully believed that the players would have someone in charge who wouldn't accept mediocrity and demand the very best from our squad, for every single game. And someone who wouldn't fear anyone, including the OF. Having experience wasn't the b all and end all as far as I was concerned. 

 

Sacking him .... No. This won't help until there is another fundamental change that happens first. We need football people on the board and pronto. No doubt about that. 

 

AB said she had a good spread of skills throughout the existing board, and whilst she is correct in that a spread of knowledge is advantageous, she has forgotten to include the one skillset, which is the most important skillset, and that's having people on the board who actually understand football, and can make board level decisions with the performance of the first team in mind.  

 

 

[Harry Potter]

What an utter shambles of a goal, 1st, try and stop player  putting in cross, feeble attempt

at that one, ball went through our defence as they stood and watched, nightmare.

Clark seemed to lose sight of the ball, shambles all round.

[wavydavy]

10 hours ago, Pasquale for King said:

Boyce is a sub a best now, but the manager sees a lot of himself in him and will keep playing him.
How can he say he wants to play quickly and press teams with those two slow strikers up top, if he can’t see thats no working he should leave. 

 

We can't afford to play Shankland and Boyce in the same team. They are both too alike and slow. No doubt both intelligent players but we are a man down playing them together.

Edited September 24, 2023 by wavydavy

[wavydavy]

11 minutes ago, Harry Potter said:

What an utter shambles of a goal, 1st, try and stop player  putting in cross, feeble attempt

at that one, ball went through our defence as they stood and watched, nightmare.

Clark seemed to lose sight of the ball, shambles all round.

 

Kent should probably have cleared it but it seemed almost as if he got a shout from Clark who has been a bit of a calamity of late.

 

Might be time to give one of the other goalies a run of games.

[Pasquale for King]

6 minutes ago, wavydavy said:

 

We can't afford to play Shankland and Boyce in the same team. They are both too alike and slow. No doubt both intelligent players but we are a man down playing them together.

Absolutely, most people have eventually realised that, now we just need the coaches to.  But if they don’t know that by now, or think playing Devlin wide right then left is a good idea, then I have serious doubts about their competence. 

[wavydavy]

1 minute ago, Pasquale for King said:

Absolutely, most people have eventually realised that, now we just need the coaches to.  But if they don’t know that by now, or think playing Devlin wide right then left is a good idea, then I have serious doubts about their competence. 

 

Well I totally agree and it shows how incompetent our management is by even contemplating Devlin in that position.

 

Time for change.

[Pasquale for King]

8 minutes ago, wavydavy said:

 

Kent should probably have cleared it but it seemed almost as if he got a shout from Clark who has been a bit of a calamity of late.

 

Might be time to give one of the other goalies a run of games.

He’s always been a calamity, he was at St Johnstone for a reason and was available on a free for 9 months before we signed him. If Gordon doesn’t return to his best we will need a 1st choice GK next summer at the latest. 

[Pasquale for King]

Just now, wavydavy said:

 

Well I totally agree and it shows how incompetent our management is by even contemplating Devlin in that position.

 

Time for change.

I wanted SN to be successful but it’s just too early for him. 

[Pasquale for King]

34 minutes ago, Hearts1975 said:

Never posted anything after the St Midden game. Anything would have just been a rant and moan .... just disappointing all round. 

 

I was fully in support of Naismith and still am to a degree, but at this point, there is no doubt that either the players are not carrying out Naismith's instructions, or the players are incapable of carrying out his instructions. 

 

As the games pass us by I'm really starting to think it is the latter as opposed to the former. That's more of a concern as when I listened to Naismith yesterday you could see his frustration with the players not making the "correct" decisions on the field of play. 

 

Maybe they just aren't clever enough to do what he is asking of them. If he continues to ask them to do the same things, but they continue to do what they are capable of, then it's a bad bad recipe all round. 

 

When Naismith replaced Robbie I just fully believed that the players would have someone in charge who wouldn't accept mediocrity and demand the very best from our squad, for every single game. And someone who wouldn't fear anyone, including the OF. Having experience wasn't the b all and end all as far as I was concerned. 

 

Sacking him .... No. This won't help until there is another fundamental change that happens first. We need football people on the board and pronto. No doubt about that. 

 

AB said she had a good spread of skills throughout the existing board, and whilst she is correct in that a spread of knowledge is advantageous, she has forgotten to include the one skillset, which is the most important skillset, and that's having people on the board who actually understand football, and can make board level decisions with the performance of the first team in mind.  

 

 

Who would you trust to bring in these people with football experience though, the last appointment was the CEO who is a pen pusher who seems to have changed jobs a hell of a lot, and got his wife to get him the job. 
As for the players they seemed to manage to implement the tactics against Aberdeen and Ross County last season and did well against the uglies. 
There are a lot of problems at the club and the fish rots from the head. 

[Hearts1975]

5 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Who would you trust to bring in these people with football experience though, the last appointment was the CEO who is a pen pusher who seems to have changed jobs a hell of a lot, and got his wife to get him the job. 
As for the players they seemed to manage to implement the tactics against Aberdeen and Ross County last season and did well against the uglies. 
There are a lot of problems at the club and the fish rots from the head. 

Don't disagree with that at all. I ventured an honest opinion in that I really think we need a shuffle at the top or at the very minimum a major review, but that doesn't mean I am confident it will happen. 

 

The silence doesn't help either. There is that much speculation and rumours flying about at the moment that its difficult to really understand what the board are actually planning to do. If anything. 

 

In terms of who I would personally trust to bring in these people ? Honestly, I don't know, that's the answer. There is a big silence at the moment coming from the top. There will be reasons for that but in terms of trying to figure it all out. 

 

I don't have the answers mate. In a nutshell. 

 

 

[GinRummy]

12 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Who would you trust to bring in these people with football experience though, the last appointment was the CEO who is a pen pusher who seems to have changed jobs a hell of a lot, and got his wife to get him the job. 
As for the players they seemed to manage to implement the tactics against Aberdeen and Ross County last season and did well against the uglies. 
There are a lot of problems at the club and the fish rots from the head. 

Sometimes you just need to rip it up and start again. Not saying we are at that stage right now but we had one good transfer window, which was the season we were promoted, Beni, Devlin, Cochrane, McKay. The rest have been hit and miss. We sack a manager and bring in someone from within the club with two coaches that were also at the club. I will say I was happy with the Naismith appointment but it’s looking like I was wrong. 

 

It’s almost like we change things but try to keep continuity and familiarity. Neilson rightly took the fall but was that enough? 

It’s early in the season and things can change quickly, somehow win the next two and it’s a whole new conversation but our next appointment should be a manager who is in charge of everything rather than a head coach, someone who has experience in recruitment and knows what he wants. Not someone who is going to fit in with the status quo.

[Pasquale for King]

13 minutes ago, Hearts1975 said:

Don't disagree with that at all. I ventured an honest opinion in that I really think we need a shuffle at the top or at the very minimum a major review, but that doesn't mean I am confident it will happen. 

 

The silence doesn't help either. There is that much speculation and rumours flying about at the moment that its difficult to really understand what the board are actually planning to do. If anything. 

 

In terms of who I would personally trust to bring in these people ? Honestly, I don't know, that's the answer. There is a big silence at the moment coming from the top. There will be reasons for that but in terms of trying to figure it all out. 

 

I don't have the answers mate. In a nutshell. 

 

 

I’m not sure what the answer is either but it appears changes are required. 

[Pasquale for King]

3 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

Sometimes you just need to rip it up and start again. Not saying we are at that stage right now but we had one good transfer window, which was the season we were promoted, Beni, Devlin, Cochrane, McKay. The rest have been hit and miss. We sack a manager and bring in someone from within the club with two coaches that were also at the club. I will say I was happy with the Naismith appointment but it’s looking like I was wrong. 

 

It’s almost like we change things but try to keep continuity and familiarity. Neilson rightly took the fall but was that enough? 

It’s early in the season and things can change quickly, somehow win the next two and it’s a whole new conversation but our next appointment should be a manager who is in charge of everything rather than a head coach, someone who has experience in recruitment and knows what he wants. Not someone who is going to fit in with the status quo.

Definitely, RN had to go but the two guys who remained put all the blame on him to deflect attention from their own failures. They will do the same to Naismith.

[Hearts1975]

19 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Definitely, RN had to go but the two guys who remained put all the blame on him to deflect attention from their own failures. They will do the same to Naismith.

We keep hearing that Gordy Forrest is highly rated and well thought of by the players ... with him being the coach ....

 

I do wonder as to his actual involvement in terms of coaching. IE, Does he implement his own coaching ideas on the training field or does he literally do what he is told to do 

 

I mean, if it's the latter and he coaches tactics and systems the way the manager wants him to, but not the way he believes in, then how effective can he actually be 

 

The reason I am saying this is that normally a manager comes with his own assistant, and coaches, but I assume that managers take on coaches that also believe in the same systems as what the manager believes in, so it is extremely easy for them to get behind it 

 

If you move internal parts, existing, and within the club to form a backroom team for the manager, how effective is this for the manager ? 

 

Far too many questions, and not enough answers. 

[Pasquale for King]

7 minutes ago, Hearts1975 said:

We keep hearing that Gordy Forrest is highly rated and well thought of by the players ... with him being the coach ....

 

I do wonder as to his actual involvement in terms of coaching. IE, Does he implement his own coaching ideas on the training field or does he literally do what he is told to do 

 

I mean, if it's the latter and he coaches tactics and systems the way the manager wants him to, but not the way he believes in, then how effective can he actually be 

 

The reason I am saying this is that normally a manager comes with his own assistant, and coaches, but I assume that managers take on coaches that also believe in the same systems as what the manager believes in, so it is extremely easy for them to get behind it 

 

If you move internal parts, existing, and within the club to form a backroom team for the manager, how effective is this for the manager ? 

 

Far too many questions, and not enough answers. 

Celtic seem to have the same plebs for every manager and that seems to work? I would think most coaches believe they could do a better job than the manager, but don’t get the chance or look for one to show that. I think the manager has to choose his own backroom team, still doesnt always work and the blame rests with the manager, albeit the circumstances can play a huge part. 
Absolutely too many questions and not enough answers 👍🏽. 

Edited September 24, 2023 by Pasquale for King

[Hearts1975]

3 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Celtic seem to have the same plebs for every manager and that seems to work? I would think most coaches believe they could do a better job than the manager, but don’t get the chance or look for one to show that. I think the manager has to choose his own backroom team, still doesnt always work and the blame rests with the manager, albeit the circumstances can play a huge part. 
Absolutely too many questions and not enough answers 👍🏽. 

Yup. That's a good point tbf.

Maybe it's all about the quality of coach rather than where they are assembled from.

Begs to ask the question though as to whether Gordy and Frankie were Naismith's choices as opposed to the boards ?

 

One things for sure, something has to give. 

 

We are powder puff on the road. The most annoying thing about it all is most away games we play in, we have a bigger support than the home team, such is the loyalty and money that the fans spend collectively and to follow the team over the whole country, and beyond.

 

It's tragic at times, the level of performance delivered, and the players, management and the board should all be ashamed of themselves.

 

That part makes me angry and sad in equal measure. 

 

[Jingle Bells]

I thought it a strange one leaving Haring out given the physicality St Mirren possess.

We had a chance to build on the Codheid victory but made an unnecessary change instead, injuries aside.

FWIW, I feel that Haring and Beni are our best defensive central midfield pairing and as others have mentioned playing Shanks and Boyce together is a non starter due to their combined lack of pace.

Speedy No10 needed, which should have been apparent to the Club during the last transfer window.

 

[Jingle Bells]

2 hours ago, Hearts1975 said:

Yup. That's a good point tbf.

Maybe it's all about the quality of coach rather than where they are assembled from.

Begs to ask the question though as to whether Gordy and Frankie were Naismith's choices as opposed to the boards ?

 

One things for sure, something has to give. 

 

We are powder puff on the road. The most annoying thing about it all is most away games we play in, we have a bigger support than the home team, such is the loyalty and money that the fans spend collectively and to follow the team over the whole country, and beyond.

 

It's tragic at times, the level of performance delivered, and the players, management and the board should all be ashamed of themselves.

 

That part makes me angry and sad in equal measure. 

 

 

 

Used to watch training before starting work but only for a short periods.

Never the less, Forrest always seemed to be working hard whilst the others were doing very little.

[Swimmer]

Why won’t we shoot? We seem to want to pass the ball to death 

[Pasquale for King]

3 hours ago, Hearts1975 said:

Yup. That's a good point tbf.

Maybe it's all about the quality of coach rather than where they are assembled from.

Begs to ask the question though as to whether Gordy and Frankie were Naismith's choices as opposed to the boards ?

 

One things for sure, something has to give. 

 

We are powder puff on the road. The most annoying thing about it all is most away games we play in, we have a bigger support than the home team, such is the loyalty and money that the fans spend collectively and to follow the team over the whole country, and beyond.

 

It's tragic at times, the level of performance delivered, and the players, management and the board should all be ashamed of themselves.

 

That part makes me angry and sad in equal measure. 

 

 

Yeah that’s true, Savage has definitely got his pal McAvoy in the academy and then Asst Manager, he will probably take over as caretaker if Naismith gets sacked. 

[chrystaf]

5 hours ago, Pasquale for King said:

Who would you trust to bring in these people with football experience though, the last appointment was the CEO who is a pen pusher who seems to have changed jobs a hell of a lot, and got his wife to get him the job. 
As for the players they seemed to manage to implement the tactics against Aberdeen and Ross County last season and did well against the uglies. 
There are a lot of problems at the club and the fish rots from the head. 

A sensible well thought out post. You could say don't blame the messenger. 

[chrystaf]

1 hour ago, Swimmer said:

Why won’t we shoot? We seem to want to pass the ball to death 

Maybe a confidence thing, or relinquishing responsibility.  Or is it just that our build-ups are so slow that opposing teams have time to guard their goal, thus blocking the possibility of a scoring shot.  When we break quickly there is a real chance of a scoring shot as with Oda's against the Dons.

[Hearts1975]

2 hours ago, Jingle Bells said:

 

Used to watch training before starting work but only for a short periods.

Never the less, Forrest always seemed to be working hard whilst the others were doing very little.

It would be interesting to know how much input he has into what they actually train toward. 

That said, I could be doing the guy a dis-service here, and he isnt the problem at all. 

Can the players actually execute what's being asked of them on the park ? That might explain things a bit better 

52 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Yeah that’s true, Savage has definitely got his pal McAvoy in the academy and then Asst Manager, he will probably take over as caretaker if Naismith gets sacked. 

That doesnt even bear thinking about 

[Pasquale for King]

54 minutes ago, chrystaf said:

A sensible well thought out post. You could say don't blame the messenger. 

Definitely 

[mitch41]

Watching the game who noticed how many times we failed to stop or block them crossing the ball into our box. At times it looked as if the players were uninterested or lazy to put a challenge in. This was just one of many basic things we never did on a day our travelling support were let down again.  No Teamwork, no playing for each other, one decent move in the whole game, no leadership which tells me there is problems within the first team squad. Is there a clique, do some not get on with others, whatever it is it needs to be sorted out asap.

[Exile fae Main Street]

18 hours ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

He was pish before he got injured too although I’m sure you’ll still blame Naismith even though he wasn’t the manager. 

This in spades...

[soonbe110]

There were 6 Aussies on the pitch at ko yesterday. It was a dreadful game of football with virtually no skilful stuff on display from either side. It was attrition football and no surprise a howling mistake produced the only goal. Nearly a third of the outfield from Oz and that’s where we have placed the bet on our future. It was the same at Perth where five Aussies were involved and the best of a bad bunch used to play for us but doesn’t now.    Need to cut the ties now and not waste any more money on a footballing backwater. 

[Pasquale for King]

25 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

There were 6 Aussies on the pitch at ko yesterday. It was a dreadful game of football with virtually no skilful stuff on display from either side. It was attrition football and no surprise a howling mistake produced the only goal. Nearly a third of the outfield from Oz and that’s where we have placed the bet on our future. It was the same at Perth where five Aussies were involved and the best of a bad bunch used to play for us but doesn’t now.    Need to cut the ties now and not waste any more money on a footballing backwater. 

Borderline racist about Aussies, first it was their fault that your boy Bob was sacked and now that. They may well come from a footballing backwater but as they’ve came to another they fit well in. They are not at fault for the problems of Scottish football, managers like Bob and the other 41 UK managers working here most certainly are. 

[FJT]

32 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

There were 6 Aussies on the pitch at ko yesterday. It was a dreadful game of football with virtually no skilful stuff on display from either side. It was attrition football and no surprise a howling mistake produced the only goal. Nearly a third of the outfield from Oz and that’s where we have placed the bet on our future. It was the same at Perth where five Aussies were involved and the best of a bad bunch used to play for us but doesn’t now.    Need to cut the ties now and not waste any more money on a footballing backwater. 

Bizarre take!

[soonbe110]

4 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Borderline racist about Aussies, first it was their fault that your boy Bob was sacked and now that. They may well come from a footballing backwater but as they’ve came to another they fit well in. They are not at fault for the problems of Scottish football, managers like Bob and the other 41 UK managers working here most certainly are. 

No, but they are a part of our problem. 

[soonbe110]

39 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Borderline racist about Aussies, first it was their fault that your boy Bob was sacked and now that. They may well come from a footballing backwater but as they’ve came to another they fit well in. They are not at fault for the problems of Scottish football, managers like Bob and the other 41 UK managers working here most certainly are. 

Hardly close to racist   Just a comment that all 6 Aussies that played yesterday looked poor  and witnessed similar at other games  

There’s nothing I have seen to suggest players from that league are any better than what’s already available to us in the uk   

[Pasquale for King]

12 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

Hardly close to racist   Just a comment that all 6 Aussies that played yesterday looked poor  and witnessed similar at other games  

There’s nothing I have seen to suggest players from that league are any better than what’s already available to us in the uk   

One of them scored the winner 🤔🤷🏾‍♂️😆

[Jarhead]

3 hours ago, soonbe110 said:

There were 6 Aussies on the pitch at ko yesterday. It was a dreadful game of football with virtually no skilful stuff on display from either side. It was attrition football and no surprise a howling mistake produced the only goal. Nearly a third of the outfield from Oz and that’s where we have placed the bet on our future. It was the same at Perth where five Aussies were involved and the best of a bad bunch used to play for us but doesn’t now.    Need to cut the ties now and not waste any more money on a footballing backwater. 

What a strange (and slightly sinister) thing to take away from yesterday. 
The nationality of any of our players is completely irrelevant to whether they are any good or not. 
Granted Rowles wasn’t great but anyone thinking the other 3 Aussies were the reason we lost then I’m not sure what they were watching 🤷‍♂️

[Jingle Bells]

3 hours ago, mitch41 said:

Watching the game who noticed how many times we failed to stop or block them crossing the ball into our box. At times it looked as if the players were uninterested or lazy to put a challenge in. This was just one of many basic things we never did on a day our travelling support were let down again.  No Teamwork, no playing for each other, one decent move in the whole game, no leadership which tells me there is problems within the first team squad. Is there a clique, do some not get on with others, whatever it is it needs to be sorted out asap.

 

4 hours ago, Hearts1975 said:

It would be interesting to know how much input he has into what they actually train toward. 

That said, I could be doing the guy a dis-service here, and he isnt the problem at all. 

Can the players actually execute what's being asked of them on the park ? That might explain things a bit better 

That doesnt even bear thinking about 

 

Forrest was normally carrying a clip board around with him so I'm guessing that was his instructions from Neilson, whom was rarely there. 

The back five practiced passing the ball as quickly as possible to each other in a line and there was a lot of five aside type games.

Like I said though I was only watching it for a short period so there would have been a lot more happening than that.

Couldn't tell you what happening this season as I'm now doing evening shifts

[Hearts1975]

5 minutes ago, Jingle Bells said:

 

 

Forrest was normally carrying a clip board around with him so I'm guessing that was his instructions from Neilson, whom was rarely there. 

The back five practiced passing the ball as quickly as possible to each other in a line and there was a lot of five aside type games.

Like I said though I was only watching it for a short period so there would have been a lot more happening than that.

Couldn't tell you what happening this season as I'm now doing evening shifts

It does sound like a lot of in-field decision making type drills. Interesting indeed. 

 

Another poster made a good point the other day where he said that most of the time, goals, come from turnovers in the opposition half, and dispossessing the other team, most notably from initiating a press. 

 

When we eventually get the ball into the opposition half, we are almost always carrying the ball in there, and are met with 10 men defending behind the ball. 

 

High possession statistics game on game but although the opposition in most cases have between 30-40% of the ball, they always seem to be creating far more chances than we do. 

 

The other teams seem to plan for getting the ball and creating chances in one box and defending their box, and we seem to plan for having most of the ball and when it doesn't work, and we don't make enough chances in the game, it's always stated that we didn't make the right "decisions" when we had the ball. 

 

We need a system where we almost need to remove that individual decision making from the players, as it's patently obvious that in the majority of games we just aren't capable of doing what the manager is asking of the players.

 

I wish we would try something different rather than continually try and bridge the obvious deficiencies when it comes to playing one football philosophy, and one football philosophy only. 

 

 

[The Old Tolbooth]

On 23/09/2023 at 17:47, Diadora Van Basten said:

That’s not correct he made a great save from Devlin.

 

I don't even remember that one, I must have fallen asleep. 

[Ex member of the SaS]

I have waited a bit before posting as I know most will disagree, but for me Shankland and Boyce are not good enough! There I've said it! Whether it's because they can't play together or they are too comfortable knowing they won't be dropped I can't tell. Shankland drops too deep and is never in the box for the knock on ( yes he score penalties, but we can't rely on getting one every game ) and Boyce does well but can't make a decision, should have shot when he had the chance instead of passing off to the winger.

We need a proper striker or two and a proper manager ( yes I thought Naismith could do a job, but I am now of the opinion he can't get these players to do what he says he does ) too slow and too many passes and still little forward movement. We need a complete shake up from top to bottom and God knows what our FoH rep does as there is no communication of what the fans want to see on the pitch.

[Batistuta87]

Watched the highlights again this morning and the more I see their first goal the worse it looks. WTF were Kent and Clark doing?? Kent was in a good position to block the cross at the front post and if he'd stayed where he was it would have hit off him and gone out for a corner - why on earth did he step back and let it go? Did he think he was inside the post and would have scored an OG? It was as if he'd had a shout from the keeper, but then the keeper didn't react like someone who had shouted to claim it for himself and didn't deal with it either... Very poor  

[Chimp]

20 minutes ago, Batistuta87 said:

Watched the highlights again this morning and the more I see their first goal the worse it looks. WTF were Kent and Clark doing?? Kent was in a good position to block the cross at the front post and if he'd stayed where he was it would have hit off him and gone out for a corner - why on earth did he step back and let it go? Did he think he was inside the post and would have scored an OG? It was as if he'd had a shout from the keeper, but then the keeper didn't react like someone who had shouted to claim it for himself and didn't deal with it either... Very poor  

 

For me someone (I presume Clark) has shouted for the ball. Don't think for a second Kent pulls his leg out of the way for no reason at all. You don't do that without hearing a shout, no chance.

 

Both players were at fault obviously but Clark has to deal with that for me. Sure I noticed he puts his hand in the air afterwards too as if to apologise, could be wrong but he f***** up massively there and not for the first time. Looks less and less reliable every time I watch him. No2 at best and shows how much we miss Gordon.

[Unknown user]

1 minute ago, Chimp said:

 

For me someone (I presume Clark) has shouted for the ball. Don't think for a second Kent pulls his leg out of the way for no reason at all. You don't do that without hearing a shout, no chance.

 

Both players were at fault obviously but Clark has to deal with that for me. Sure I noticed he puts his hand in the air afterwards too as if to apologise, could be wrong but he f***** up massively there and not for the first time. Looks less and less reliable every time I watch him. No2 at best and shows how much we miss Gordon.

 

If god almighty had shouted to leave it, Kent still should have cleared it. That's not a ball you let go.

[Chimp]

3 minutes ago, ǝǝɥʇᴉɯS said:

 

If god almighty had shouted to leave it, Kent still should have cleared it. That's not a ball you let go.

 

That's why I included him in the blame 👍

[Ex member of the SaS]

Basic rule of defending, boot it out. however if the keeper shouts he has to be sure he can deal with it. More and more I see Clark making mistakes and the sooner Craig is back the better

[Unknown user]

34 minutes ago, Chimp said:

 

That's why I included him in the blame 👍

 

I'm not arguing, I'm just saying it should never have got past him, for any reason, any shout.

[Chimp]

Just now, ǝǝɥʇᴉɯS said:

 

I'm not arguing, I'm just saying it should never have got past him, for any reason, any shout.

 

I wasn't arguing either mate and that's why I said they're both at fault. But if a GK is going to shout for the ball he needs to collect it, or at least make an effort to. Kent seems to be a no nonsense defender and was out of character so I can only presume it was Clark who shouted for it. A calamitous goal all round either way and sums up where we are at the minute.

[Batistuta87]

46 minutes ago, Chimp said:

 

For me someone (I presume Clark) has shouted for the ball. Don't think for a second Kent pulls his leg out of the way for no reason at all. You don't do that without hearing a shout, no chance.

 

Both players were at fault obviously but Clark has to deal with that for me. Sure I noticed he puts his hand in the air afterwards too as if to apologise, could be wrong but he f***** up massively there and not for the first time. Looks less and less reliable every time I watch him. No2 at best and shows how much we miss Gordon.

Yeah don't think he would have left it without a shout, but then Clark didn't claim it either so dunno what happened? Mental. 

 

[Unknown user]

4 minutes ago, Chimp said:

 

I wasn't arguing either mate and that's why I said they're both at fault. But if a GK is going to shout for the ball he needs to collect it, or at least make an effort to. Kent seems to be a no nonsense defender and was out of character so I can only presume it was Clark who shouted for it. A calamitous goal all round either way and sums up where we are at the minute.

 

I don't think Zander can take much blame TBH, no one in that stadium expected that to happen

[Chimp]

Just now, ǝǝɥʇᴉɯS said:

 

I don't think Zander can take much blame TBH, no one in that stadium expected that to happen

 

If he has shouted for it then he absolutely can take a lot of the blame. Who knows though, lack of or poor communication contributed to it either way.

[Batistuta87]

56 minutes ago, ǝǝɥʇᴉɯS said:

 

If god almighty had shouted to leave it, Kent still should have cleared it. That's not a ball you let go.

Agree with this. If you're defending the front post, under no circumstances should you leave a ball for the keeper.