Andy Irving

[gar jambo]

37 minutes ago, Taffin said:

Must have some serious sprinting coaches at Klagenfurt. 

 

Nice for the lad that he's made a career out of it but I'm in no way disappointed he left. He'll also obviously never play for West Ham, there's something fishy about this move.

No any slower than snodgrass and he played EPL ! 

[Taffin]

15 minutes ago, gar jambo said:

No any slower than snodgrass and he played EPL ! 

 

Snodgrass was a lot better than Andy Irving though (unless he's seriously transformed since leaving us, may well have done). 

 

If he plays more than 20 minutes (combined) of first team football for West Ham I'll eat my hat.

Edited September 19, 2023 by Taffin

[alanjambo]

I liked Andy Irving. I remember a game against Aberdeen when Stendel was the manager and he was outstanding. He did really tail off towards the end of his time with us though. I'd have liked us to have kept him but he's gone abroad and done well. Fair play to him.

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

He was a really nice player, struggled going back the way. I think he probably suits the league he is in, there will be a method of play, that doesnt make the game helter skelter, 2nd balls etc, which really wasnt him. Obua was a player who was similarly languid, but had quality. Players coming from Netherlands can struggle in our division at first too as an example

[Bob Loblaw]

Hat trick against RB Salzburg today in a 4-3 win. That's 9 goals and 5 assists from central midfield in 27 games. Glad to see the laddie doing well.

[fabienleclerq]

7 minutes ago, Bob Loblaw said:

Hat trick against RB Salzburg today in a 4-3 win. That's 9 goals and 5 assists from central midfield in 27 games. Glad to see the laddie doing well.

Excellent, he was always a good player. I assume the slower pace and more technical game suit him.

[Ford Prentice]

22 minutes ago, Bob Loblaw said:

Hat trick against RB Salzburg today in a 4-3 win. That's 9 goals and 5 assists from central midfield in 27 games. Glad to see the laddie doing well.

Impressive as Salzburg are league leaders. We could come up against Klagenfurt in Europe next season but I think Andy goes to West Ham for next season.

[Bob Loblaw]

24 minutes ago, Ford Prentice said:

Impressive as Salzburg are league leaders. We could come up against Klagenfurt in Europe next season but I think Andy goes to West Ham for next season.

Aye will be interesting to see what happens with him next season. Chat is he's only been signed as bit of a thank you for a link up with Klagenfurt and he won't be in the plans, but he's playing at a decent level so even if he gets a loan it should be to a decent level.

[Bongo 1874]

Lads a ****ing player,salzburg would give both Celtic&Rangers a go in our league.

 

Kick on Andy son.

 

Never mind what that tit of a coach, done to you and treated you.

 

He's clueless.

Edited April 24 by Bongo 1874

[Sooperstar]

39 minutes ago, Ford Prentice said:

Impressive as Salzburg are league leaders. We could come up against Klagenfurt in Europe next season but I think Andy goes to West Ham for next season.

Not a chance he gets a look in at West Ham.

[Hansel]

1 hour ago, Bob Loblaw said:

Hat trick against RB Salzburg today in a 4-3 win. That's 9 goals and 5 assists from central midfield in 27 games. Glad to see the laddie doing well.

[Bongo 1874]

2 hours ago, Bob Loblaw said:

Hat trick against RB Salzburg today in a 4-3 win. That's 9 goals and 5 assists from central midfield in 27 games. Glad to see the laddie doing well.

It was a play off so he actually scored 4 goals over 2 games.

 

That's largely impressive for a guy who was deemed not good enough to start regularly, for a championship side at the time 🤔.

 

Seems these foreign coaches can spot a player or two 🤔. 

 

7-6 to salzburg overall.

 

But that's some achievement even to run them close like that, considering the quality in both teams.

 

Andy and his team deserve huge credit for that.

Edited April 24 by Bongo 1874

[Mikey1874]

1 hour ago, Bob Loblaw said:

Aye will be interesting to see what happens with him next season. Chat is he's only been signed as bit of a thank you for a link up with Klagenfurt and he won't be in the plans, but he's playing at a decent level so even if he gets a loan it should be to a decent level.

 

Well he thinks he's turning up to pre season training. 

[Bob Loblaw]

5 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

Well he thinks he's turning up to pre season training. 

Good for him in that case, hope he impresses. 

[Stendelnator]

1 hour ago, Bongo 1874 said:

Lads a ****ing player,salzburg would give both Celtic&Rangers a go in our league.

 

Kick on Andy son.

 

Never mind what that tit of a coach, done to you and treated you.

 

He's clueless.

 

Irving asked for more money than we wanted to pay him for his role in the squad. It happens. We moved on. You should try it. 

[Bongo 1874]

3 minutes ago, Stendelnator said:

 

Irving asked for more money than we wanted to pay him for his role in the squad. It happens. We moved on. You should try it. 

For his role in the squad? The boy is on fire.

 

How much was he asking for ? 

 

Considering our central midfield is still up for discussion.

 

This definitely deserves debate in my opinion.

 

 

Edited April 24 by Bongo 1874

[Taffin]

22 minutes ago, Bongo 1874 said:

For his role in the squad? The boy is on fire.

 

How much was he asking for ? 

 

Considering our central midfield is still up for discussion.

 

This definitely deserves debate in my opinion.

 

 

 

Maybe now he'd command a better role in the squad. At the time, he wasn't 'on fire'...he was merely lukewarm at best.

[Bongo 1874]

7 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

Maybe now he'd command a better role in the squad. At the time, he wasn't 'on fire'...he was merely lukewarm at best.

I could certainly see his potential along with others,I mean when you dominate Lewis Ferguson in midfield, I think it's sticking out to be quite honest.

 

 

[No Idle Talk]

I'm happy for the laddie that he seems to be doing well. I have to say it does also annoy me a bit because he is a player that we should never have let go the way we did. He had potential. I thought so anyway. He was good in possession and his range of passing was very good. There were tools there that could have been worked with and developed. There was obviously a disagreement about what he should be paid but I find it hard to believe he would have been asking for the earth at that point in time. Who knows.

 

I see Aiden Denholm and Macauley Tait getting a lot of praise for what they have shown this season. Personally I saw more potential in Andy Irving than I have seen from either of those two so far. 

 

Anyway, it's all spilled milk now. Good luck to the lad.

[davemclaren]

Good peg on him but didn't seem very mobile.  Good luck to him. 

[Fort Vallance]

Good luck to him making a decent career. Might be better staying where he is though. Won't get a sniff in East London.

[Ronald Villiers]

A good Jambo, glad he's doing well.  I thought he had a lot of potential but was lacking in pace.  He was no different to Walker, Paterson, Nicholson, king, etc I suppose when they first broke through.  Pity he never stayed.  

[Stendelnator]

36 minutes ago, Bongo 1874 said:

I could certainly see his potential along with others,I mean when you dominate Lewis Ferguson in midfield, I think it's sticking out to be quite honest.

 

 

 

He couldn't nail down a starting place in a Scottish Championship side.

[naeclue]

I'm impressed that he seems to have known the best path for him at such a young age.  The initial move (was it to a German second string squad?) struck me as odd, but it's clearly allowed him to thrive.  

 

Good luck to the guy, and congratulations on making it work after having the courage to move to a different country and a different level of football.  

[King prawn]

Bongo picking the one Hearts youngster to leave for a worse club and end up doing well. We’ve had dozens and dozens over the years that all ended up in the lower leagues of Scottish football or give up entirely and now he’s giving us the “foreign coaches can spot a player” chat … 

[RustyRightPeg]

41 minutes ago, King prawn said:

Bongo picking the one Hearts youngster to leave for a worse club and end up doing well. We’ve had dozens and dozens over the years that all ended up in the lower leagues of Scottish football or give up entirely and now he’s giving us the “foreign coaches can spot a player” chat … 

 

😂

[heartgarfunkel]

Andy Irving's talent and potential was never in doubt, any hindsight denialism specialists can GTF

[Phil D. Corners]

23 hours ago, Bob Loblaw said:

Hat trick against RB Salzburg today in a 4-3 win. That's 9 goals and 5 assists from central midfield in 27 games. Glad to see the laddie doing well.

 
He did a Paul Hartley after his 3rd. 😅

[OTT]

4 hours ago, heartgarfunkel said:

Andy Irving's talent and potential was never in doubt, any hindsight denialism specialists can GTF

 

Yep. Robbie Neilson youth development guru strikes again. 

[Bongo 1874]

Some Genuinely wouldn't know a good player, if it slapped them straight in the pus.

[Bongo 1874]

On 25/04/2024 at 09:47, King prawn said:

Bongo picking the one Hearts youngster to leave for a worse club and end up doing well. We’ve had dozens and dozens over the years that all ended up in the lower leagues of Scottish football or give up entirely and now he’s giving us the “foreign coaches can spot a player” chat … 

Just the one oh my lord.

 

To think what we could of got.

 

For Doig,Hickey, Irving, Leonard, 

 

And Souttar is rightly questioned.

 

For those 5 alone you should be taking in atleast over £10mil.

 

See it for what it is.

 

See what Naismith is trying to change.

 

Our club has been ****ed under previous legends at our club.

 

They don't look at the bigger picture.

 

And put there own interests and agendas before the club.

 

Yes I'm raging!!!! That some can't see this or are they choosing to ignore it,because they have emotional feeling's towards these people,that put us backwards?

 

[Jocam2325]

4 minutes ago, Bongo 1874 said:

Just the one oh my lord.

 

To think what we could of got.

 

For Doig,Hickey, Irving, Leonard, 

 

And Souttar is rightly questioned.

 

For those 5 alone you should be taking in atleast over £10mil.

 

See it for what it is.

 

See what Naismith is trying to change.

 

Our club has been ****ed under previous legends at our club.

 

They don't look at the bigger picture.

 

And put there own interests and agendas before the club.

 

Yes I'm raging!!!! That some can't see this or are they choosing to ignore it,because they have emotional feeling's towards these people,that put us backwards?

 

What do you think we could have got for Leonard? Souttar, would have been a gamble by the club given his Injury situation. The one I would agree with is Doig. 

Not sure what more we could have done to get more for Hickey. 

[Takeshi kovac]

10 minutes ago, Jocam2325 said:

What do you think we could have got for Leonard? Souttar, would have been a gamble by the club given his Injury situation. The one I would agree with is Doig. 

Not sure what more we could have done to get more for Hickey. 

Well the sell on fee was a 💩show, that could have been handled way better

[Dalstonjambo]

17 minutes ago, Bongo 1874 said:

Just the one oh my lord.

 

To think what we could of got.

 

For Doig,Hickey, Irving, Leonard, 

 

And Souttar is rightly questioned.

 

For those 5 alone you should be taking in atleast over £10mil.

 

See it for what it is.

 

See what Naismith is trying to change.

 

Our club has been ****ed under previous legends at our club.

 

They don't look at the bigger picture.

 

And put there own interests and agendas before the club.

 

Yes I'm raging!!!! That some can't see this or are they choosing to ignore it,because they have emotional feeling's towards these people,that put us backwards?

 

There was an article this week about Leonard going to the English Championship for about 300k. So interested in your logic of how Hearts would have got 4 or 5 times that circa 5 years ago. Also wasn't it discussed on here that we told him the path to the first team but his Dad was expecting him to play when he was too young or something? Sure that was covered by one of the posters more knowledgeable on the youths. 

Edited April 26 by Dalstonjambo

[RustyRightPeg]

2 minutes ago, Dalstonjambo said:

There was an article this week about Leonard going to the English Championship for about 300k. So interested in your logic of how Hearts would have got 4 or 5 times that circa 5 years ago. Also wasn't it discussed on here that we told him the path to the first team but his Dad was expecting him to play when he was too young or something? Sure that was covered by one of the posters more knowledgeable on the youths. 

 

Also Souttar was all but sold before his achilles went bye bye

Edited April 26 by RustyRightPeg

[spacerjoe]

17 hours ago, OTT said:

 

Yep. Robbie Neilson youth development guru strikes again. 

Neilsons record of bringing through young players was poor, but he arrived with a clear remit of getting the **** out of the Championship at the first ask.

 

He thought the best approach was without Andy Irving and it worked out.

 

Don't think anybody expected Andy to go on and do this well; not even Andy given he left to join a German 3rd Division side.

 

And nobody gave two shits while he was there. It's only now that it seems to have been seen a 'massive mistake', by some. Are there any threads of this ilk from back then?

 

For what it's worth I thought he looked decent and had promise, albeit he wasn't very mobile. I was surprised when he left but not really that fussed.

 

Good luck to the guy - glad he's pushed on.

[OTT]

4 minutes ago, spacerjoe said:

Neilsons record of bringing through young players was poor, but he arrived with a clear remit of getting the **** out of the Championship at the first ask.

 

He thought the best approach was without Andy Irving and it worked out.

 

Don't think anybody expected Andy to go on and do this well; not even Andy given he left to join a German 3rd Division side.

 

And nobody gave two shits while he was there. It's only now that it seems to have been seen a 'massive mistake', by some. Are there any threads of this ilk from back then?

 

For what it's worth I thought he looked decent and had promise, albeit he wasn't very mobile. I was surprised when he left but not really that fussed.

 

Good luck to the guy - glad he's pushed on.

 

It was beyond poor. I'm genuinely not sure many/any youngsters can look back and say "Robbie gave me my big break", going back to his first stint, all the heavy lifting and tough miles was done by Gary Locke & John McGlynn, it was in 2012/13 & 2013/14 where the likes of Paterson, Walker, Holt, King, Nicholson etc. got meaningful game time and learned/made mistakes, by the time Robbie got them, most of these laddies had 40-50+ first team games under their belts. Fair enough, the academy was gutted by the point Robbie came in, but in his 2nd spell absolutely no youngsters got a chance, Irving despite being ready and obviously talented just wasn't fancied by him. 

 

The guy knows how to finish 3rd, but my god his underutilisation of youngsters is bordering on criminal for a club that needs to be making semi-regular player sales as part of its business plan. 

 

This isn't retconning Irvings time at Hearts btw, he wasn't the finished article, but neither is ANY youngster breaking through, christ, look at Tait, extremely composed but has made errors an experienced player wouldn't - likewise Denholm. Doesn't mean you chuck them. 

 

Robbies management of the team frustrated me in a number of ways, the results were solid but particularly the lack of youth development was unacceptable. 

[Footballfirst]

Irving's hat trick.  The second was great technique.

 

 

[jamboinglasgow]

1 hour ago, OTT said:

 

It was beyond poor. I'm genuinely not sure many/any youngsters can look back and say "Robbie gave me my big break", going back to his first stint, all the heavy lifting and tough miles was done by Gary Locke & John McGlynn, it was in 2012/13 & 2013/14 where the likes of Paterson, Walker, Holt, King, Nicholson etc. got meaningful game time and learned/made mistakes, by the time Robbie got them, most of these laddies had 40-50+ first team games under their belts. Fair enough, the academy was gutted by the point Robbie came in, but in his 2nd spell absolutely no youngsters got a chance, Irving despite being ready and obviously talented just wasn't fancied by him. 

 

The guy knows how to finish 3rd, but my god his underutilisation of youngsters is bordering on criminal for a club that needs to be making semi-regular player sales as part of its business plan. 

 

This isn't retconning Irvings time at Hearts btw, he wasn't the finished article, but neither is ANY youngster breaking through, christ, look at Tait, extremely composed but has made errors an experienced player wouldn't - likewise Denholm. Doesn't mean you chuck them. 

 

Robbies management of the team frustrated me in a number of ways, the results were solid but particularly the lack of youth development was unacceptable. 

 

Was looking at a list recently of all the academy or young players who have made debuts for Hearts since 2000.

 

From it Robbie gave 18 young players their debuts over two spells, 13 players in his first spell and 5 in his second.

 

First spell: Jack Hamilton, Angus Beith, Liam Gordon, Liam Henderson, Liam Smith, Robbie Buchanan, Ally Roy, Sean McKirdy, Nathan Flanagan, Callumn Morrison, Dario Zanatta, Lewis Moore, Rory Currie

 

Second Spell: Scott McGill, Finlay Pollock, Aidan Denholm Makenzie Kirk, Murray Thomas

 

In the first spell, seven players competitive debuts came just in the Challenge game v Livi when we put out a youth team.

 

Also noticeable of all 18 players, only two have made at least 10 competitive appearances under his time, Liam Smith and Dario Zanatta.

[King prawn]

2 hours ago, Bongo 1874 said:

Just the one oh my lord.

 

To think what we could of got.

 

For Doig,Hickey, Irving, Leonard, 

 

And Souttar is rightly questioned.

 

For those 5 alone you should be taking in atleast over £10mil.

 

See it for what it is.

 

See what Naismith is trying to change.

 

Our club has been ****ed under previous legends at our club.

 

They don't look at the bigger picture.

 

And put there own interests and agendas before the club.

 

Yes I'm raging!!!! That some can't see this or are they choosing to ignore it,because they have emotional feeling's towards these people,that put us backwards?

 

Doig never played a professional game for us

Hickey went to Bologna in Serie A which isn’t a worse club than us 

Leonard has played twice for Brighton in 3 years in the EFL cup and is currently on loan at the mighty Northampton Town 

Souttar went on to play for Rangers after spending half his time with us injured and the rest not wanting to be here (fantastic player when he was fit mind) 

Irving went to the German 3rd division 

 

Where does any of this fall into your “foreign coaches can spot a player” ? 

[Greedy Jambo]

It's quite irritating that we don't produce many decent youngsters, and when we do, we can't keep them, or stupidly let them go. 

[spacerjoe]

2 hours ago, OTT said:

 

It was beyond poor. I'm genuinely not sure many/any youngsters can look back and say "Robbie gave me my big break", going back to his first stint, all the heavy lifting and tough miles was done by Gary Locke & John McGlynn, it was in 2012/13 & 2013/14 where the likes of Paterson, Walker, Holt, King, Nicholson etc. got meaningful game time and learned/made mistakes, by the time Robbie got them, most of these laddies had 40-50+ first team games under their belts. Fair enough, the academy was gutted by the point Robbie came in, but in his 2nd spell absolutely no youngsters got a chance, Irving despite being ready and obviously talented just wasn't fancied by him. 

 

The guy knows how to finish 3rd, but my god his underutilisation of youngsters is bordering on criminal for a club that needs to be making semi-regular player sales as part of its business plan. 

 

This isn't retconning Irvings time at Hearts btw, he wasn't the finished article, but neither is ANY youngster breaking through, christ, look at Tait, extremely composed but has made errors an experienced player wouldn't - likewise Denholm. Doesn't mean you chuck them. 

 

Robbies management of the team frustrated me in a number of ways, the results were solid but particularly the lack of youth development was unacceptable. 

I'm of the opinion that first team minutes by academy players should be a KPI.

 

Not that it's forced upon the manager to do so, but that if it's not hit then every owner of that KPI has to report to the board why it failed.

 

Other clubs are this strict and it works.

 

To your earlier point, you only have to look at the most fruitful years recently in terms of youth development, being the one year it was forced upon us to play them due to our first team being gutted.

 

Of course, their still needs to be talent there, but sometimes you just need to play them.

 

However the second championship season was not the time for that kind of attitude. It was promotion and nothing else.

[Saint Jambo]

2 hours ago, OTT said:

 

It was beyond poor. I'm genuinely not sure many/any youngsters can look back and say "Robbie gave me my big break", going back to his first stint, all the heavy lifting and tough miles was done by Gary Locke & John McGlynn, it was in 2012/13 & 2013/14 where the likes of Paterson, Walker, Holt, King, Nicholson etc. got meaningful game time and learned/made mistakes, by the time Robbie got them, most of these laddies had 40-50+ first team games under their belts. Fair enough, the academy was gutted by the point Robbie came in, but in his 2nd spell absolutely no youngsters got a chance, Irving despite being ready and obviously talented just wasn't fancied by him. 

 

The guy knows how to finish 3rd, but my god his underutilisation of youngsters is bordering on criminal for a club that needs to be making semi-regular player sales as part of its business plan. 

 

This isn't retconning Irvings time at Hearts btw, he wasn't the finished article, but neither is ANY youngster breaking through, christ, look at Tait, extremely composed but has made errors an experienced player wouldn't - likewise Denholm. Doesn't mean you chuck them. 

 

Robbies management of the team frustrated me in a number of ways, the results were solid but particularly the lack of youth development was unacceptable. 

 

Irving played 29 times under Neilson. 20 of those were starts. Only 3 players had more appearances and only 5 players made more starts than season. The idea that Neilson didn't fancy Irving or didn't give him game time just doesn't match reality. He was only 20 years old that season and Neilson had him as a key member of the squad.

 

Also for context, the season was only 27 league games long that season due to the delayed championship start because of covid.

Edited April 26 by Saint Jambo

[Saint Jambo]

And here is what he said in an interview I linked to when this thread started, talking about why he left because he wanted to move abroad and thought European football would suit him better. Nothing about not liking Neilson, not being valued or not being offered enough money.

 

“Leaving Hearts was a huge decision, as was leaving my family in Edinburgh. I had 13 amazing years at Hearts. It was my childhood dream to play for them, play at Tynecastle and score a goal in a Hearts shirt. It was everything I wanted as a kid. I still feel huge pride at that.

 

“I began to think about ending my contract and I'd always had the ambition to play abroad. I wanted to create a career in Europe. I'd always thought that maybe the European style of football would maybe suit me better than Scotland. I'm young and it was a good chance to try it.

 

“Hearts are still my club. I'm still a fan. The experiences and learning I had there was amazing, both as a footballer and a person. They gave me my chance to achieve this dream.”

[kila]

Andy's a good guy and if he's still doing well later on in his career I wouldn't object to a return back to Tynecastle.

 

[OTT]

32 minutes ago, spacerjoe said:

I'm of the opinion that first team minutes by academy players should be a KPI.

 

Not that it's forced upon the manager to do so, but that if it's not hit then every owner of that KPI has to report to the board why it failed.

 

Other clubs are this strict and it works.

 

To your earlier point, you only have to look at the most fruitful years recently in terms of youth development, being the one year it was forced upon us to play them due to our first team being gutted.

 

Of course, their still needs to be talent there, but sometimes you just need to play them.

 

However the second championship season was not the time for that kind of attitude. It was promotion and nothing else.

 

Completely agree - Something I've been really impressed with about Naisy is that he's not been shy about getting Denholm & Tait into the first team. Don't doubt for a second that Pollock would have had more game time if fit, and next season we'll see Lewis Neilson rejoin the first team, and no doubt many more. There maybe is an aspect of these being "his" players in terms of being in the B-team with him last season/year before last. But still. 

 

I don't see why we can't be looking to develop at least 1 youth player into the first team squad a season. Christ, clubs down south are that talent hungry a few games for a 16 year old will probably have bids flying in  

 

Seriously though, as you say, getting strict on it seems a sensible approach. We're not a club winning regular trophies, finishing 3rd whilst promoting youth surely isn't an impossible task. 

[tian447]

4 hours ago, Bongo 1874 said:

Some Genuinely wouldn't know a good player, if it slapped them straight in the pus.

 

And yet, here you are. 

[spacerjoe]

35 minutes ago, OTT said:

 

Completely agree - Something I've been really impressed with about Naisy is that he's not been shy about getting Denholm & Tait into the first team. Don't doubt for a second that Pollock would have had more game time if fit, and next season we'll see Lewis Neilson rejoin the first team, and no doubt many more. There maybe is an aspect of these being "his" players in terms of being in the B-team with him last season/year before last. But still. 

 

I don't see why we can't be looking to develop at least 1 youth player into the first team squad a season. Christ, clubs down south are that talent hungry a few games for a 16 year old will probably have bids flying in  

 

Seriously though, as you say, getting strict on it seems a sensible approach. We're not a club winning regular trophies, finishing 3rd whilst promoting youth surely isn't an impossible task. 

Agreed, yeah, one per season seems doable. At least on average. 

 

Naismith definitely gets it. Definitely an aspect of him knowing the players more, but I also feel like he's the type of manager that would do it anyway.

 

It always seems like it's the best man managers who promote from within, which makes sense I guess. I get that vibe from him.

[Maple Leaf]

44 minutes ago, kila said:

Andy's a good guy and if he's still doing well later on in his career I wouldn't object to a return back to Tynecastle.

 

I would be delighted.

[Bongo 1874]

6 hours ago, Jocam2325 said:

What do you think we could have got for Leonard? Souttar, would have been a gamble by the club given his Injury situation. The one I would agree with is Doig. 

Not sure what more we could have done to get more for Hickey. 

I have a feeling Brighton will renew his contract,allowing them to get more for him.

 

In our league and properly developed? He's a 2-3 mil pound player easy.

Edited April 26 by Bongo 1874