Unforgivable by Savage

[longmalx]

Last season was derailed by a lack of strong ball winning centre back. To me that’s the main reason we lost 3rd place over the season. Savage knew we needed one to cover Halkett and failed to recruit.

 

This season we knew we needed a strong central midfielder who can hold the ball and move it on. Savage has failed again and has gambled on a combination of Beni regaining fitness quickly / a punt at an unproven Aussie.

 

To me it’s unforgivable that for 2 seasons in a row are team is being derailed by uncertainty in a key area. Changing CM every game to try and find a combo which works is ridiculous, made more so by us playing a CB, a LB and a recently released kid.

 

To me last season he was on a shoogly peg due to this. To repeat it 2 seasons in a row is incompetence.

Edited August 25, 2023 by longmalx

[briever]

🥱

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

[Sooks]

2 minutes ago, longmalx said:

Last season was derailed by a lack of strong ball winning centre back. To me that’s the main reason we lost 3rd place over the season. Savage knew we needed one to cover Halkett and failed to recruit.

 

This season we knew we needed a strong central midfielder who can hold the ball and move it on. Savage has failed again and has gambled on a combination of Beni regaining fitness quickly / a punt at an unproven Aussie.

 

To me it’s unforgivable that for 2 seasons in a row are team is being derailed by uncertainty in a key area. Changing CM every game to try and find a combo which works is ridiculous, made more so by us playing a CB, a LB and a recently released kid.

 

To me last season he was on a shoogly peg due to this. To repeat it 2 seasons in a row is incompetence.

Honestly think the elastic band in your mind may have snapped 

[A_A wehatethehibs]

He is a typical west coast blawbag in my opinion 

[Chuck Berry]

[Gordon Ramsay]

Think the title is a bit strong but we are still struggling in there. Playing a left back at centre mid in a game like last night is desperate. 

 

Is Nieuwenhof injured or just not fancied? 

 

Beni and Pete are injury prone. Halliday is pish and Grant looks like he's on the way out. 

 

We have a good squad now but we're still lacking there. 

[The Old Tolbooth]

Still the best part of a week left and deals to be done, calm down to a heart attack OP. 

[McCrae]

7 minutes ago, longmalx said:

Last season was derailed by a lack of strong ball winning centre back. To me that’s the main reason we lost 3rd place over the season. Savage knew we needed one to cover Halkett and failed to recruit.

 

This season we knew we needed a strong central midfielder who can hold the ball and move it on. Savage has failed again and has gambled on a combination of Beni regaining fitness quickly / a punt at an unproven Aussie.

 

To me it’s unforgivable that for 2 seasons in a row are team is being derailed by uncertainty in a key area. Changing CM every game to try and find a combo which works is ridiculous, made more so by us playing a CB, a LB and a recently released kid.

 

To me last season he was on a shoogly peg due to this. To repeat it 2 seasons in a row is incompetence.

Our midfield is good enough to secure 3rd in the SPFL.

[frankblack]

I think Savage was working on a deal for De Bruyne but his injury scuppered it or at least that is where I think the OP thought he should have been.

 

[frankblack]

1 minute ago, McCrae said:

Our midfield is good enough to secure 3rd in the SPFL.

 

Precisely - the type of quality you need to dominate in midfield costs serious money.

[kingantti1874]

Jesus ****ing christ. He like most of us is probably thinking the best CM outside Glasgow in the league is now fit.  Hes also probably working with a budget. If beni isn’t going to be for them maybe we look again but we have COMFORTABLY the strongest CM in the league outside the arse cheeks.

 

if you think otherwise then please list one

 

So please, shut up and stop talking shite 

Edited August 25, 2023 by kingantti1874

[Rick Sanchez]

1 minute ago, McCrae said:

Our midfield is good enough to secure 3rd in the SPFL.

 

I'm not saying I'd prefer Aberdeen's midfield but I wish I shared your confidence.

[jamboozy]

Oh great, another thread bashing club staff, how many games are we into the season? 

[McCrae]

1 minute ago, Rick Sanchez said:

 

I'm not saying I'd prefer Aberdeen's midfield but I wish I shared your confidence.

We have two creative players on the wings and two ball winners in the middle. We are just fine.

Edited August 25, 2023 by McCrae

[Andyp1874]

We need a cm before the end of the window. 

[Luckies1874]

I think the OP is way OTT in his overall assassination but his point is valid in respect to the central midfield area. We simply don’t have enough quality in there. Relying on Beningame to come back and show his best was fairly delusional and we appear, though it is early days, to have signed a project in Hoff, rather than make the considerable upgrade on the likes of Kio, Halliday and Grant that was desperately needed. Having to use the likes of Sibbick and Cochrane in there and blood Denholm a player previously binned underlines this point further. If we have to go through the season using Devlin continually along with the likes of Haring and Beni if and when they are available it will undermine a lot of the encouraging signs we’ve seen from other new recruits. We need quality in the centre of the park to give ourselves the best opportunity. The boat has to be pushed out to achieve this. 

[OTT]

1 minute ago, Rick Sanchez said:

 

I'm not saying I'd prefer Aberdeen's midfield but I wish I shared your confidence.

 

Yeah, Devlin + whoever is fit isn't encouraging. 

 

Maybe Denholm will step up. 

[Alan_R]

They signed Frankie Kent.

 

This season I think they were banking on Beni being back to fitness and form 

 

The midfield is a bit concerning though, 

 

Grant and kio, havnt worked out. I don't think they were particularly bad but what was the plan for the midfield? Coz I don't see how they'd fit in. 

 

Midfield seems very unbalanced . Seem to have Lots of midfielders but no 'midfield'

[Bull's-eye]

Seeeesun us ower.

 

Um naw goan back.

[spacerjoe]

3 minutes ago, Gordon Ramsay said:

Think the title is a bit strong but we are still struggling in there. Playing a left back at centre mid in a game like last night is desperate. 

 

Is Nieuwenhof injured or just not fancied? 

 

Beni and Pete are injury prone. Halliday is pish and Grant looks like he's on the way out. 

 

We have a good squad now but we're still lacking there. 

Nieuwenhof is a young player, just in the door. He quite rightly wasn't picked if he's not up to speed yet.

On paper though he is exactly the type of player we need. Hopefully, if allowed more than 2 games to find his feet, he'll work out.

Grant is a weird one for me. Stupid sendings off aside, he always seems to add something positive. Even his early cameo this season was good. 

 

[frankblack]

1 minute ago, Alan_R said:

They signed Frankie Kent.

 

This season I think they were banking on Beni being back to fitness and form 

 

The midfield is a bit concerning though, 

 

Grant and kio, havnt worked out. I don't think they were particularly bad but what was the plan for the midfield? Coz I don't see how they'd fit in. 

 

Midfield seems very unbalanced . Seem to have Lots of midfielders but no 'midfield'

 

Kio is gone, but Grant I'd agree hasn't set the heather alight and neither has the Hoff so far from what I've seen.

[Carter]

6 minutes ago, Gordon Ramsay said:

Think the title is a bit strong but we are still struggling in there. Playing a left back at centre mid in a game like last night is desperate. 

 

Is Nieuwenhof injured or just not fancied? 

 

Beni and Pete are injury prone. Halliday is pish and Grant looks like he's on the way out. 

 

We have a good squad now but we're still lacking there. 

On the basis he's just arrived on a 4 year deal and played about 90 minutes combined you've got to assume he's injured. 

 

Not featuring against Rosenberg or last night really does little to dispel the view that we probably didn't get our transfer business done sufficiently early. 

[Chaps]

13 minutes ago, longmalx said:

Last season was derailed by a lack of strong ball winning centre back. To me that’s the main reason we lost 3rd place over the season. Savage knew we needed one to cover Halkett and failed to recruit.

 

This season we knew we needed a strong central midfielder who can hold the ball and move it on. Savage has failed again and has gambled on a combination of Beni regaining fitness quickly / a punt at an unproven Aussie.

 

To me it’s unforgivable that for 2 seasons in a row are team is being derailed by uncertainty in a key area. Changing CM every game to try and find a combo which works is ridiculous, made more so by us playing a CB, a LB and a recently released kid.

 

To me last season he was on a shoogly peg due to this. To repeat it 2 seasons in a row is incompetence.

 

Another idiot that hasn’t a clue.

Savage and the scouting team only go out for players for certain position the management request for

 

If you want to blame anyone it ain’t Savage.

[frankblack]

Just now, Carter said:

On the basis he's just arrived on a 4 year deal and played about 90 minutes combined you've got to assume he's injured. 

 

Not featuring against Rosenberg or last night really does little to dispel the view that we probably didn't get our transfer business done sufficiently early. 

 

He played against Partick on Sunday.

[Gordon Ramsay]

Just now, Luckies1874 said:

I think the OP is way OTT in his overall assassination but his point is valid in respect to the central midfield area. We simply don’t have enough quality in there. Relying on Beningame to come back and show his best was fairly delusional and we appear, though it is early days, to have signed a project in Hoff, rather than make the considerable upgrade on the likes of Kio, Halliday and Grant that was desperately needed. Having to use the likes of Sibbick and Cochrane in there and blood Denholm a player previously binned underlines this point further. If we have to go through the season using Devlin continually along with the likes of Haring and Beni if and when they are available it will undermine a lot of the encouraging signs we’ve seen from other new recruits. We need quality in the centre of the park to give ourselves the best opportunity. The boat has to be pushed out to achieve this. 

 

Spot on. 

 

I've been impressed with Devlin so far this season but we need someone next to him with real quality. 

 

I like Pete but he has his limits and injury record speaks for itself. No idea what's going on with Beni, not sure if we'll ever see him back to his best. 

 

Halliday and Grant? Not good enough. Denholm has been tried but he's just a kid. Sibbick tried but he's not a centre mid. Cochrane tried, done ok but not his position. 

 

That leaves Nieuwenhof, not been very impressed of what I've seen of him tbh. Didn't make the bench again last night. Is he injured or have we signed a dud? 

 

We need someone else in there but I doubt it'll happen now. 

[busbyfth]

11 minutes ago, Gordon Ramsay said:

Think the title is a bit strong but we are still struggling in there. Playing a left back at centre mid in a game like last night is desperate. 

 

Is Nieuwenhof injured or just not fancied? 

 

Beni and Pete are injury prone. Halliday is pish and Grant looks like he's on the way out. 

 

We have a good squad now but we're still lacking there. 

And Cochrane proved once again that he isnt as yet quite up to the task - either there or at left back .....last nights move to central was  a poisoned chalice so he cant really be blamed but he often gave the ball away, which is his trademark. 

[GinRummy]

10 minutes ago, Luckies1874 said:

I think the OP is way OTT in his overall assassination but his point is valid in respect to the central midfield area. We simply don’t have enough quality in there. Relying on Beningame to come back and show his best was fairly delusional and we appear, though it is early days, to have signed a project in Hoff, rather than make the considerable upgrade on the likes of Kio, Halliday and Grant that was desperately needed. Having to use the likes of Sibbick and Cochrane in there and blood Denholm a player previously binned underlines this point further. If we have to go through the season using Devlin continually along with the likes of Haring and Beni if and when they are available it will undermine a lot of the encouraging signs we’ve seen from other new recruits. We need quality in the centre of the park to give ourselves the best opportunity. The boat has to be pushed out to achieve this. 

We bought Devlin and Beni in the same window, since then Beni, Haring and Devlin have been our best midfielders. Beni has had a long time been injured, Haring has been injured and Devlin has had to make do with some utter mugs as midfield partners. 

 

Too early to tell on Calem or Denholm, so as it stands, since summer 2021 we haven't improved the midfield one bit.  That's a sorry state of affairs.

 

 

Edited August 25, 2023 by GinRummy

[Nerja Jambo]

5 minutes ago, Luckies1874 said:

I think the OP is way OTT in his overall assassination but his point is valid in respect to the central midfield area. We simply don’t have enough quality in there. Relying on Beningame to come back and show his best was fairly delusional and we appear, though it is early days, to have signed a project in Hoff, rather than make the considerable upgrade on the likes of Kio, Halliday and Grant that was desperately needed. Having to use the likes of Sibbick and Cochrane in there and blood Denholm a player previously binned underlines this point further. If we have to go through the season using Devlin continually along with the likes of Haring and Beni if and when they are available it will undermine a lot of the encouraging signs we’ve seen from other new recruits. We need quality in the centre of the park to give ourselves the best opportunity. The boat has to be pushed out to achieve this. 

You're right, we need a younger fitter version of Haring, a Tziollis type player. I know his attitude was poor, but when he could be arsed he was oozing class. All our midfield , other than Haring are all very young and would appear to be a conveyer belt of projects. There must be someone out there who fits the bill.

[Cruyff]

Old cliché but Rome wasn't built in a day. 

[John Findlay]

25 minutes ago, longmalx said:

Last season was derailed by a lack of strong ball winning centre back. To me that’s the main reason we lost 3rd place over the season. Savage knew we needed one to cover Halkett and failed to recruit.

 

This season we knew we needed a strong central midfielder who can hold the ball and move it on. Savage has failed again and has gambled on a combination of Beni regaining fitness quickly / a punt at an unproven Aussie.

 

To me it’s unforgivable that for 2 seasons in a row are team is being derailed by uncertainty in a key area. Changing CM every game to try and find a combo which works is ridiculous, made more so by us playing a CB, a LB and a recently released kid.

 

To me last season he was on a shoogly peg due to this. To repeat it 2 seasons in a row is incompetence.

[jamboinglasgow]

5 minutes ago, spacerjoe said:

Nieuwenhof is a young player, just in the door. He quite rightly wasn't picked if he's not up to speed yet.

On paper though he is exactly the type of player we need. Hopefully, if allowed more than 2 games to find his feet, he'll work out.

Grant is a weird one for me. Stupid sendings off aside, he always seems to add something positive. Even his early cameo this season was good. 

 

 

To me, we are building a central midfield for the season, not for the first few games. So Haring and Beni coming back and up to speed make a big difference. Nieuwenhof gets up to speed and he makes a big difference. Denholm has contributed well so far and will get better as the season goes on. I think Tait when he is ready to play will play a good part. Pollock if he ever is fit will also play a part. So we should have plenty options through the season that will make that midfield stronger. Signing another central midfielder will just block things up.

 

I understand the short term clamour for another central midfielder, Devlin needs a settled partner next to him, but there is no point signing someone for now, when there is plenty long term for us.

[spacerjoe]

4 minutes ago, Luckies1874 said:

I think the OP is way OTT in his overall assassination but his point is valid in respect to the central midfield area. We simply don’t have enough quality in there. Relying on Beningame to come back and show his best was fairly delusional and we appear, though it is early days, to have signed a project in Hoff, rather than make the considerable upgrade on the likes of Kio, Halliday and Grant that was desperately needed. Having to use the likes of Sibbick and Cochrane in there and blood Denholm a player previously binned underlines this point further. If we have to go through the season using Devlin continually along with the likes of Haring and Beni if and when they are available it will undermine a lot of the encouraging signs we’ve seen from other new recruits. We need quality in the centre of the park to give ourselves the best opportunity. The boat has to be pushed out to achieve this. 

I thought Denholm, in his few appearances, was much better than both Sibbick and Cochrane in there from a forward play perspective. We actually lost a bit of momentum against Rosenborg when he went off.

However, I get why Naismith wanted two more combative midfielders in there against PAOK to ensure that we continually pressed and harried their midfield. In the most part that worked as we stopped them playing, but by doing this we sacrificed any composure or cutting edge required to get it to our four forwards on a regular basis.

 

Sibbick playing against Partick was clearly getting him ready for this in case we needed to make a change.

 

I hope Hoff finds his feet or one of the youngsters step up as I don't think we can feasibly afford a ready-made CM of the level that everyone is hoping for. We got lucky (and then very unlucky) with Beni.

 

 

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

26 minutes ago, longmalx said:

Last season was derailed by a lack of strong ball winning centre back. To me that’s the main reason we lost 3rd place over the season. Savage knew we needed one to cover Halkett and failed to recruit.

 

This season we knew we needed a strong central midfielder who can hold the ball and move it on. Savage has failed again and has gambled on a combination of Beni regaining fitness quickly / a punt at an unproven Aussie.

 

To me it’s unforgivable that for 2 seasons in a row are team is being derailed by uncertainty in a key area. Changing CM every game to try and find a combo which works is ridiculous, made more so by us playing a CB, a LB and a recently released kid.

 

To me last season he was on a shoogly peg due to this. To repeat it 2 seasons in a row is incompetence.

You can’t have everything. The midfield needs work, for sure, and Beni’s fitness is still a concern but there’s only so much you can do in one window and I like our business.

 

If most of the team is good, use future windows to address weaknesses - at present, Rowles and the absence of enough quality midfielders. But we’re looking decent and we’ll finish third.

[spacerjoe]

1 minute ago, jamboinglasgow said:

 

To me, we are building a central midfield for the season, not for the first few games. So Haring and Beni coming back and up to speed make a big difference. Nieuwenhof gets up to speed and he makes a big difference. Denholm has contributed well so far and will get better as the season goes on. I think Tait when he is ready to play will play a good part. Pollock if he ever is fit will also play a part. So we should have plenty options through the season that will make that midfield stronger. Signing another central midfielder will just block things up.

 

I understand the short term clamour for another central midfielder, Devlin needs a settled partner next to him, but there is no point signing someone for now, when there is plenty long term for us.

 

I agree.

 

We also probably can't afford to just keep adding midfielders to our books!

[frankblack]

1 minute ago, spacerjoe said:

 

I agree.

 

We also probably can't afford to just keep adding midfielders to our books!

 

Anything now in midfield is likely to be a loan deal.

[longmalx]

I know Savage is not responsible for transfers solely, but he is responsibility for football operations.

That for the 2nd season in a row we're going in with a major hole in the squad in terms of balance despite our healthy bank balance is a clear failing.

 

This time last year people would have laughed if it had been said that Haring / Cochrane / Denholm / Sibbick were all playing CM at this stage.
 

We know Devlin is limited, but games like last night he makes sense, games against bottom-6 teams less so.
Haring is solid, but is incompatible with Devlin. So its one or the other for me.

Beni we know and love but the signs have been there for a long time that his road back was going to be long.

Calem may come good but its clear he is a long way from ready for week in week out football. The game intelligence of players from Aussie league if the last 3 are anything to go by will be somewhat behind what we'd hope.

And of course Grant is being shoved out the door.

 

We don't need some amazing midfielder to run the show, just a good solid midfielder to keep the ball moving up field.
Lots will disagree but someone in Shinnie mould would be perfect short-term.
Someone with that experience may be difficult to find but it seems its not beyond the realms to have someone in that type of mould.

Edited August 25, 2023 by longmalx

[colinmorewasgash]

No more coming in unless we get rid of some is the mantra now. How often do we hear this from the club players not reliable in full season beni haring kingsley inj prone boyce cd get reoccurence halkett prob wont be bk and rowles not convincing. Still feel we need another cb but hey ho plus halliday finished grant wants out so still think midfielder and a striker with more height and bit pace wd defo help us. Shankland goes it could be long season.

[DS98]

Beni Baningime (the best midfielder outside the OF) was deemed fit in May. So you can forgive the powers that be for thinking he would be game ready in August after a pre season. 
 

We were all looking forward to a season without an insane amount of injuries and hoping this was it. That’s Beni, Haring and McKay unavailable and we’re no even out of August!

[Thunder and Lightning]

Surely it is down to the manager to tell the recruitment team either players he wants or positions he wants suggestions for?

 

Why would it be their fault if the manager doesn't do this?

[kingantti1874]

6 minutes ago, DS98 said:

Beni Baningime (the best midfielder outside the OF) was deemed fit in May. So you can forgive the powers that be for thinking he would be game ready in August after a pre season. 
 

We were all looking forward to a season without an insane amount of injuries and hoping this was it. That’s Beni, Haring and McKay unavailable and we’re no even out of August!

👆to state the blindingly obvious. 
 

don’t forgive savage though . 🤣

Edited August 25, 2023 by kingantti1874

[Rods]

I blame the women’s team personally.

 

 

[OmiyaHearts]

We don't have a single centre mid who's any good at carrying the ball over half way line and able to set up attacks.

 

Our only creativity comes from out wide. Just about every time Boyce touches the ball he's got his back to goal.

 

Niewenhoff looks bang average and isn't the solution, going on his performances so far.

[kingantti1874]

Just now, OmiyaHearts said:

We don't have a single centre mid who's any good at carrying the ball over half way line and able to set up attacks.

 

Our only creativity comes from out wide. Just about every time Boyce touches the ball he's got his back to goal.

 

Niewenhoff looks bang average and isn't the solution, going on his performances so far.

 

 We absolutely do.  We just need to get him fit and playing 

[jamboinglasgow]

18 minutes ago, spacerjoe said:

 

I agree.

 

We also probably can't afford to just keep adding midfielders to our books!

 

Yup thats true. Football has become too much of a throw away culture in regards to players. Both clubs and fans will quickly dismiss a player if not doing well and demand a new one brought in. But the budget only stretches so far. We need coaches who can develop players to become more effective or play in a way that gets the most out of what we have.

[Rick Sanchez]

3 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

 

 We absolutely do.  We just need to get him fit and playing 

 

😭

 

I feel bad saying last night I've given up on him but I genuinely don't think he'll be back playing a meaningful role for us again.

[gregzy2k7]

51 minutes ago, longmalx said:

Last season was derailed by a lack of strong ball winning centre back. To me that’s the main reason we lost 3rd place over the season. Savage knew we needed one to cover Halkett and failed to recruit.

 

This season we knew we needed a strong central midfielder who can hold the ball and move it on. Savage has failed again and has gambled on a combination of Beni regaining fitness quickly / a punt at an unproven Aussie.

 

To me it’s unforgivable that for 2 seasons in a row are team is being derailed by uncertainty in a key area. Changing CM every game to try and find a combo which works is ridiculous, made more so by us playing a CB, a LB and a recently released kid.

 

To me last season he was on a shoogly peg due to this. To repeat it 2 seasons in a row is incompetence.

We are 2 games in to the league mate and have 4 points, come back to with this thread in 2/3 months and if we are bottom 6 then aye, mad savage oot and aw that but I'm pretty confident that's not going to happen.

[tian447]

"SAVAGE IS SHITE AND HASN'T FOUND ANY PLAYERS FOR US TO SIGN!!!"

 

Proceed to sign about 7 players, most of which are a massive upgrade to the squad.

 

"AYE, WELL SAVAGE IS SHITE AND HUSNAE SIGNED A MIDFIELDER AND I HATE HIM AND HE'S STILL SHITE!!1!1!one!"

 

Quality thread.

[Walter Bishop]

53 minutes ago, longmalx said:

Last season was derailed by a lack of strong ball winning centre back. To me that’s the main reason we lost 3rd place over the season. Savage knew we needed one to cover Halkett and failed to recruit.

 

This season we knew we needed a strong central midfielder who can hold the ball and move it on. Savage has failed again and has gambled on a combination of Beni regaining fitness quickly / a punt at an unproven Aussie.

 

To me it’s unforgivable that for 2 seasons in a row are team is being derailed by uncertainty in a key area. Changing CM every game to try and find a combo which works is ridiculous, made more so by us playing a CB, a LB and a recently released kid.

 

To me last season he was on a shoogly peg due to this. To repeat it 2 seasons in a row is incompetence.

Bore off. 

[henrysmithsgloves]

And here we go again 🥱