*** Official Dundee v Heart of Midlothian Match Thread (merged) ***

[The Tackle]

1 minute ago, GinRummy said:

I remembered it from Neil Lennon about Samaras. Stuck in my mind because I thought it was funny.

Doesn’t really matter where you got it from tbf it’s 100% correct 

[GBJambo]

Absolutely shocking performance 

Never looked like scoring 

[Central Belt 1874]

Couldn't bring myself to watch the second half on the dodgy stream after that dreadful first half performance... and starting line up. 

 

Who knows what's going on behind the scenes at the club, but this away form just isint acceptable any more. 

[pettigrewsstylist]

Doesnt look like Lowry, Tagawa and Vargas ripping anyone up for toilet paper anytime soon.

[Captain Scarlett]

7 minutes ago, Danny Wilde said:

 

Yeah I credited us with a goal, my mistake. Finished 1-0 and not 2-1. Had Dundee win written all over it.  The club is going to repeat last season, or worse, and the season after this will be the same. Stagnation. No real ambition, a management team at the same poor level with the same attitudes, same tactics, same outcomes. Quality of players coming in just the same as before.  No gulf in quality between us and the other 9 old-firm team firms, and the other teams know it. They know that we're imposters, soft, punchless, vulnerable in every league game we play and points will be shed like confetti all the way between now and whatever top-6 finish we might achieve this season.

I agree with your post but I’m unsure about the top six part. We were expecting to have nine points after today but Hearts being Hearts we rather fortunately have a grand total of four.

[Sherbet]

The sooner we reslise we are not man city and can play from the back the same c,**p will continue

 During the 2nd half the stats said we had made over 200.passes more than dundee  to what affect. I'm not advocating aimless punts up the park but we are so pedestrian and there doesn't seem to be any organised tactics. Think we were fooled into thinking naismith would change things but I'm afraid not.  This is just a continuation of neolsen and levein.  Maybe robinson is not a bad shout after all

[usagi]

Not a knee jerk reaction but get the check book out hearts, nothing short of 3rd will be acceptable. Get a decent attacking midfielder in now.

[jock _turd]

1 hour ago, GinRummy said:

You not moved on

 

You are great at turning out this sort of guff but are you seeing an improvement? It has to be remembered that the team downed tools under RN and were no worse that the rot that is being dished out now and this lot are meant to be right behind the manager!

[billybalfour]

4 minutes ago, Tatlock said:

This is entirely down to the management. That starting 11 was just asking to be beaten. We are nowhere strong enough to make 5 changes. Offia not a full back. Denholm not ready to start. Midfield soft and predictable. Must play our strongest team every time to get a system bedded in.

Probably the reason we need to be out of Europe ASAP.We just aren't strong enough to compete on an extra front .Naismith needs to be in sole charge and if he isn't up to it make the change quickly.I hope he is but have serious doubts.

[Francis Albert]

Just now, Hashimoto said:

Neither did I.......Hearts board incapable of conducting proper recruitment procedure.

Any other candidates "down the corridor"?

 

The sight of McAvoy during the game trying to act like the Manager by having a protracted argument with the fourth official was a highlight of the game.  

 

And then the "Technical Director" shaking hands with the opposition bench at the final whistle while our "Manager" sneaked off in the background. 

 

Could UEFA please step in and end the farce?

 

 

[E3OBE]

For the time and effort put into bringing in Tagawa & Vargas I’d have expected a bit more so far. Understand it’s a new league/new country etc etc but we are literally banking on them for this season.

 

Even more than that though, our central midfield and central defence were a ****ing worrying.
 

PAOK -2 on Thursday is a shoe-in.

[Gmcjambo]

1st half was just awful,  hard to find the words,  2nd half was a big improvement but we lost a daft goal.    Naismith will learn but I think he rested key players ahead of the game on Thusday and that backfired.  We clearly need to get greater consistency in midfield but I think we had 3 CM's who would have started today injured or not fit.    If Boyce doens't stay fit this season then I will be worried!   Disappointing performance and result, and an opportunity lost to develop a strong early lead against Hibs and the sheep.

Edited August 27, 2023 by Gmcjambo

[savage]

The same boring tippy tippy possession football that apparently we were not going to play anymore.  Zero urgency

[GBJambo]

6 minutes ago, pettigrewsstylist said:

Doesnt look like Lowry, Tagawa and Vargas ripping anyone up for toilet paper anytime soon.

They were awful . Particularly Lowry 🤦🏻

[Hashimoto]

Do this bunch of charlatans actually train?.......WTF do they do at the Oriam?.......No pace, no energy, no idea. A management team who are reluctant to run at teams. I notice it all the time, ball passes into the midfield, whoever gets it just stand with his foot on the ball and invariably it gets passed back to the guy who gave it to him it in the first place......Eye bleeding stuff.
But's that what you get when the board can't even do the simple thing like appoint "real" management.  

[colinmaroon]

What are management playing at.  First half was slow and completely lacking in penetration.  All change 2nd half, how come? Can't see it in advance what good are you? 

 

Also, we obviously do not have the strength in depth we are being touted with.  And what the hades was our keeper doing at that goal. 90% to blame.  Denholm 10%.  A 0-0 draw would have been bad enough but that travesty? 

 

Sibbick not a midfielder. We had a superb display from him in Europe, lots of strength; where's it gone.  Big marshmallow now.  Wasted Lowry and he made impact on left in the 2nd for 20 minutes, then pulled inside? 

[Pans Jambo]

Its obvious we set out to rest players for the trip to Greece and I understand that as making it to the group stages means a health pay day. We tried Lowry behind Boyce, we tried Toby in midfield. Oda was not having a good day and Denholm tried but was shown to not have it today. 
 

What we tried. It doesnt work. 
 

Its obvious that our squad only has about 14 or so ‘decent’ players. The reat are amateurs, bairns and shite bags.

 

Dundee are utter shyte. Our best under 21’s team should be tucking them away!

 

Or are Hearts just a

smaller club than we think they are?
 

I dont think so but today does make you second guess youself. 
 

Spend the money, build a decent squad that can be rotated because its obvious the players we have currently (or the management team) are not what we need. 

[Gundermann]

13 minutes ago, BackOfTheNet said:

I know you mean Denholm, but I don’t want Rowles near our first XI for a while now.

 

Rowles needs benched.

[Portable Badger]

1 minute ago, Gmcjambo said:

1st half was just awful,  hard to find the words,  2nd half was a big improvement but we lost a daft goal.    Naismith will learn but I think he rested key players ahead of the game on Thusday and that backfired.  We clearly need to get greater consistency in midfield but I think we had 3 CM's who would have started today injured or not fit.    If Boyce doens't stay fit this season then I will be worried!   Disappointing performance and result, and an opportunity lost to develop a strong early lead against Hibs and the sheep.

Too many squad players shoehorned into the team at the same time.  We just didn't gel at all and the disparity in our squad strength wholly evident.

[Pans Jambo]

7 minutes ago, Sherbet said:

The sooner we reslise we are not man city and can play from the back the same c,**p will continue

 During the 2nd half the stats said we had made over 200.passes more than dundee  to what affect. I'm not advocating aimless punts up the park but we are so pedestrian and there doesn't seem to be any organised tactics. Think we were fooled into thinking naismith would change things but I'm afraid not.  This is just a continuation of neolsen and levein.  Maybe robinson is not a bad shout after all

I was praying we would at least try route 1 hoofball in the 2nd half. Sometimes you get lucky and it works 😩

[Gundermann]

1 minute ago, colinmaroon said:

What are management playing at.  First half was slow and completely lacking in penetration.  All change 2nd half, how come? Can't see it in advance what good are you? 

 

Also, we obviously do not have the strength in depth we are being touted with.  And what the hades was our keeper doing at that goal. 90% to blame.  Denholm 10%.  A 0-0 draw would have been bad enough but that travesty? 

 

Sibbick not a midfielder. We had a superb display from him in Europe, lots of strength; where's it gone.  Big marshmallow now.  Wasted Lowry and he made impact on left in the 2nd for 20 minutes, then pulled inside? 

 

Our management duo of Tweedle-Dee and Tweedle-Dum not setting the heather alight. Only saving grace is that with Neilson we may not even have finished 4th.

[Pans Jambo]

1 minute ago, Gundermann said:

 

Rowles needs benched.

Aye, in an Australian team

[sac]

I’m starting to question Rowles abilities. He is not the player I thought he was going to be.

[GinRummy]

7 minutes ago, jock _turd said:

 

You are great at turning out this sort of guff but are you seeing an improvement? It has to be remembered that the team downed tools under RN and were no worse that the rot that is being dished out now and this lot are meant to be right behind the manager!

You were never looking for an improvement. You liked the dross Neilson served up and you got that today. 
 

If there’s anyone on this forum that should be happy with the possession based shite we got today it’s you. 

[jbee647]

3 minutes ago, Pans Jambo said:

Its obvious we set out to rest players for the trip to Greece and I understand that as making it to the group stages means a health pay day. We tried Lowry behind Boyce, we tried Toby in midfield. Oda was not having a good day and Denholm tried but was shown to not have it today. 
 

What we tried. It doesnt work. 
 

Its obvious that our squad only has about 14 or so ‘decent’ players. The reat are amateurs, bairns and shite bags.

 

Dundee are utter shyte. Our best under 21’s team should be tucking them away!

 

Or are Hearts just a

smaller club than we think they are?
 

I dont think so but today does make you second guess youself. 
 

Spend the money, build a decent squad that can be rotated because it’s obvious the players we have currently (or the management team) are not what we need. 

[Cruyff]

Need a LCB that can pass. 

CM that can pass

And an actual RB, not a CB that can play RB. 

 

Need to get shot off a few as well. 

[Francis Albert]

15 minutes ago, 132goals1958 said:

When we inevitably exit Europe on Thursday there should be an announcement that Naismith is in total charge including team selection. It may be the case at the moment but McAvoy fronting up in the media telling all and sundry that he has the final say has to stop. Now that the stupid badges rule is irrelevant he is expendable.

There was a suggestion when the current set up was put in place that the badges requirement applied to the top flight leagues in all UEFA associated countries  not just UEFA competitions. 

 

The solution is to do what we should have done --- appoint an experienced manager with a track record at a decent level.. Naismith needs to learn the trade at somehere higher than the Lowland League.

[Deevers]

All our midfield options are almost identical  - all ball winners and not a creative player there. Until that gets sorted there will be more sway days like this. 

[Homme]

Only caught some of it today. Looked absolutely pathetic from everyone.

 

[The Treasurer]

Good to welcome back some posters who have been missing for the first few games 

[pettigrewsstylist]

5 minutes ago, Hashimoto said:

Do this bunch of charlatans actually train?.......WTF do they do at the Oriam?.......No pace, no energy, no idea. A management team who are reluctant to run at teams. I notice it all the time, ball passes into the midfield, whoever gets it just stand with his foot on the ball and invariably it gets passed back to the guy who gave it to him it in the first place......Eye bleeding stuff.
But's that what you get when the board can't even do the simple thing like appoint "real" management.  

Tagawa was returning balls to central defenders immediately upon receiving it from them, with 10-15 yds space behind him to turn into. Grant was telling Boyce to not give him the ball despite Boyce having 2 closing in on him and Grant having more space.

Somethings wrong.

[jbee647]

People before the game advising we should be resting players and rotating the squad, because “our squad is strong enough to beat Dundee”

Thats obviously nonsense, we don’t.

Strongest XI on the park every week, if the player is tired he can have a day off during the week 

[Zen Jambo]

Dire. 
 

 

[jock _turd]

5 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

You were never looking for an improvement. You liked the dross Neilson served up and you got that today. 
 

If there’s anyone on this forum that should be happy with the possession based shite we got today it’s you. 

 

You have totally avoided the question 😅 You have shat the bed and are now don't have an out .

[flem]

15 minutes ago, pettigrewsstylist said:

Doesnt look like Lowry, Tagawa and Vargas ripping anyone up for toilet paper anytime soon.

 

Lowry looked good for a 10 minute spell at the start of the second half. Need more than that. 

 

Vargas has loads of energy but not seen anything special from him. 

 

Tagawa doesn't look good enough, missing in action. 

 

[pettigrewsstylist]

7 minutes ago, Gundermann said:

 

Our management duo of Tweedle-Dee and Tweedle-Dum not setting the heather alight. Only saving grace is that with Neilson we may not even have finished 4th.

No way we beat Aberdeen and held hibs under him. The change at least got us 4 euro ties, a little improvement to co efficient and some £££.

[Luckies1874]

Horrendous performance. Even worse result. Just not good enough in any respects. Far too many players going through the motions, looking listless and as of they’d rather be somewhere else. Nowhere near what we’ve been told to expect from the management . No energy, no desire, no leadership and JFC hardly any talent or ability. No goals v Killie and Dundee is totally unacceptable. 
 

The midfield is actually embarrassing and nobody is coming in from the sidelines to improve it to what we need. That can only come from outside the club . It is actually shambolic that we are relying on the likes of Sibbick, Denholm and Cochrane to fulfill these roles. 
 

The start to the season has been completely underwhelming however positive some of us have tried to be. Today was a major setback given we’ve a long hot night ahead on Thursday before returning to a game we really need to win at Tynecastle, against Motherwell, next Sunday. Failure to do that is going to see the support extremely restless very early. They are going to be on a very short leash with further ‘efforts’ like today. 

[Tom Hardy’s Dug]

We really haven’t played well very much at all this season. It’s not just away games.

 

Without Shankland and Boyce we’d be nowhere.

 

The seeds were sown with the appointment of Naismith and then compounded with the shambolic pre-season.

[leginten]

Having wide players with pace and employing a style of play which means they only ever receive the ball standing still from players who’re also standing still. 
 

 

“When you get to the half-way line, boys, we want you to stop, look around a few times, then pass it sideways or backwards.”

[buzzbomb1958]

4 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

There was a suggestion when the current set up was put in place that the badges requirement applied to the top flight leagues in all UEFA associated countries  not just UEFA competitions. 

 

The solution is to do what we should have done --- appoint an experienced manager with a track record at a decent level.. Naismith needs to learn the trade at somehere higher than the Lowland League.

This Board have been taking the fans for granted for years they sit back and watch money flowing in and all they bother about is this feckin hotel , how long is it going to take before they actually finish everything that needs done then concentrate on the team  full time , This management team are a joke and we are a joke amongst other teams when we cannot put a real manager in place , shameful

[Tatlock]

17 minutes ago, billybalfour said:

Probably the reason we need to be out of Europe ASAP.We just aren't strong enough to compete on an extra front .Naismith needs to be in sole charge and if he isn't up to it make the change quickly.I hope he is but have serious doubts.

My thoughts exactly. It stinks of McAvoy insisting on doing it his way because of the European shit. Bin it and give Naismith a chance to “make his mark” so we can see if there’s any difference.

[pettigrewsstylist]

12 minutes ago, Pans Jambo said:

Its obvious we set out to rest players for the trip to Greece and I understand that as making it to the group stages means a health pay day. We tried Lowry behind Boyce, we tried Toby in midfield. Oda was not having a good day and Denholm tried but was shown to not have it today. 
 

What we tried. It doesnt work. 
 

Its obvious that our squad only has about 14 or so ‘decent’ players. The reat are amateurs, bairns and shite bags.

 

Dundee are utter shyte. Our best under 21’s team should be tucking them away!

 

Or are Hearts just a

smaller club than we think they are?
 

I dont think so but today does make you second guess youself. 
 

Spend the money, build a decent squad that can be rotated because its obvious the players we have currently (or the management team) are not what we need. 

 

2 minutes ago, Luckies1874 said:

Horrendous performance. Even worse result. Just not good enough in any respects. Far too many players going through the motions, looking listless and as of they’d rather be somewhere else. Nowhere near what we’ve been told to expect from the management . No energy, no desire, no leadership and JFC hardly any talent or ability. No goals v Killie and Dundee is totally unacceptable. 
 

The midfield is actually embarrassing and nobody is coming in from the sidelines to improve it to what we need. That can only come from outside the club . It is actually shambolic that we are relying on the likes of Sibbick, Denholm and Cochrane to fulfill these roles. 
 

The start to the season has been completely underwhelming however positive some of us have tried to be. Today was a major setback given we’ve a long hot night ahead on Thursday before returning to a game we really need to win at Tynecastle, against Motherwell, next Sunday. Failure to do that is going to see the support extremely restless very early. They are going to be on a very short leash with further ‘efforts’ like today. 

Probably time to let Halliday have some minute, albeit Cohrane will be back, and has been missed hugely.

[EH11_2NL]

'Fruitless Hearts' away woes continue - analysis

Hearts haven't won outside Edinburgh - or Perth - since October last year'

 

Not a great statistic 😕

[Lone Striker]

5 minutes ago, billybalfour said:

Probably the reason we need to be out of Europe ASAP.We just aren't strong enough to compete on an extra front .Naismith needs to be in sole charge and if he isn't up to it make the change quickly.I hope he is but have serious doubts.

We will be out of Europe by Thursday evening.   I agree that the Thursday/Sunday schedule has been a factor last season and this one,  but imo our players are being coached into adopting a default style of play that any half-decent opposition knows how to deal with.

 

For some reason, we've regressed back to the "keep possession at all costs" stuff that Neilson pioneered. 

And when we do make it into the final third, the players look bereft of any creativity  about how to shoot accurately or play a killer 1-2 with someone.

 

Our recent recruits may well be decent players - but they're being coached very poorly.   I can't believe that pro footballers on good wages and  left to their own devices would serve up such timid displays off their own backs.    On current form (and similar going back several years), Hearts really don't deserve to have 15k ST holders plus a big waiting list. 

 

We're a massive disappointment, and I think we've all been a bit blinded by  all this  3rd place mantra due to Europe qualification.   Feck Europe - I just want us to be playing at a higher tempo and attacking with more intent and skill, measured by shots on target and goals scored.

 

 

[BackOfTheNet]

18 minutes ago, Gundermann said:

 

Rowles needs benched.

Heartily agree

[BackOfTheNet]

3 minutes ago, EH11_2NL said:

'Fruitless Hearts' away woes continue - analysis

Hearts haven't won outside Edinburgh - or Perth - since October last year'

 

Not a great statistic 😕

It’s utterly pathetic and defies logic. Everyone that is at or has been the club say a mixture of that we are an entitled or demanding fan base. Too **** right we are, as evidence shows the team does **** all without us backing them at Tynecastle.

Edited August 27, 2023 by BackOfTheNet

[DS98]

Tell you what it’s Groundhog Day again. This will be another result that we’ll look back in in May when Aberdeen pip us to third by a point and say ‘what if?’

 

Just like Livi, Motherwell, St Mirren etc away last season. 
 

 

[GinRummy]

14 minutes ago, jock _turd said:

 

You have totally avoided the question 😅 You have shat the bed and are now don't have an out .

You didn’t ask a question. The usual gibberish from you. Excusing Neilson because the players downed tools and completely failing to acknowledge it was Neilson’s job to get the best out the players. You’re incapable of having a discussion because you’ll never get over your hero getting sacked.

 

Apologies. No today wasn’t an improvement. I have said that already. 

Edited August 27, 2023 by GinRummy

[Costanza]

Our away performances and results continue to be a disgrace.

Early days and not writing players off but bar Kent, not overly optimistic on our recruitment turning out to be successful (including Oda in that as well).

 

I'm aware this is a completely unrealistic comparison given the disparity in quality of player and coach even but you look at Postecoglu at Spurs and a pre season and they already have an identity and intensity to their play whereas with us, I don't see any signs of either. At the very least, I thought we might have improved our press and intensity of play but not seeing it.

 

 

 

 

[151]

22 minutes ago, Gundermann said:

 

Rowles needs benched.

 

I genuinely do not understand what he brings to the table.

 

Yeh, he represented Australia at a WC. Is that really all we based the 5 year deal on?

 

He cannot win headers, he has no strength, no pace and cannot play out from the back.

 

5 year deal for a defender with no defensive attributes.