*** Heart Of Midlothian Vs H1b5 *** Offical Edinburgh Derby Match Thread

[cosanostra]

1 hour ago, TommyC said:

He did need to track Cadden's run better. The replays show he had him in his sights at one point and probably could have cleared with his right to avoid it becoming Cadden's ball. I'm mainly frustrated that the situation arose with a simple ball over the top that Rowles didn't defend. The line was too high.

 

It's definitely one of the more legit red cards we've had this season. The Shankland one at vermin park for example was a shocker.

We got the point we needed so **** it. I'm over it already.

[jamboiain13]

7 hours ago, RustyRightPeg said:

Cochrane shouldn’t have been sent off. Was a genuine attempt at the hall. Double jeopardy means he should’ve kept the booking he was awarded. 
 

****ing referees are clueless. 

I agree, at the time thought Cadden dived and having watched the highlights I don't think Cochrane expects Cadden to be right on top of him as he tries to hook the ball clear and since Cadden jumps through Cochrane in a vain attempt at winning the ball Alex catches the Hibs runt on the bottom of his foot and Cadden goes sprawling into the box appealing for a pen.  What was Cochrane supposed to do? Just let Cadden nick the ball of his toe?  Not for a second do I believe there was any malice or deliberate attempt to injure an opposition player in Cochrane's challenge (unlike several challenges initiated by JDH and others throughout the match especially the assault on big Pete) and I have no doubt that had Cadden managed to cleanly win the ball off Cochrane he would not have been in control of the ball simply because he was off the ground at speed and the ball most likely would have ran out for a goal kick or into Zander's arms.

Anyway...hope we appeal that one as well and it too gets rescinded so the like of Scott Allan might understand that their opinion is not ever correct _ last night he said 'like Cochrane's red against Maeda, it was the correct decision'...well since that got downgraded it obviously wasn't ya wee Hibs d**k

[whodanny]

9 minutes ago, jamboiain13 said:

I agree, at the time thought Cadden dived and having watched the highlights I don't think Cochrane expects Cadden to be right on top of him as he tries to hook the ball clear and since Cadden jumps through Cochrane in a vain attempt at winning the ball Alex catches the Hibs runt on the bottom of his foot and Cadden goes sprawling into the box appealing for a pen.  What was Cochrane supposed to do? Just let Cadden nick the ball of his toe?  Not for a second do I believe there was any malice or deliberate attempt to injure an opposition player in Cochrane's challenge (unlike several challenges initiated by JDH and others throughout the match especially the assault on big Pete) and I have no doubt that had Cadden managed to cleanly win the ball off Cochrane he would not have been in control of the ball simply because he was off the ground at speed and the ball most likely would have ran out for a goal kick or into Zander's arms.

Anyway...hope we appeal that one as well and it too gets rescinded so the like of Scott Allan might understand that their opinion is not ever correct _ last night he said 'like Cochrane's red against Maeda, it was the correct decision'...well since that got downgraded it obviously wasn't ya wee Hibs d**k

We didn't appeal Cochrane's red against Celtic. It was the Pete Haring one against St Midden we appealed and was recinded.

[TommyC]

37 minutes ago, cosanostra said:

 

It's definitely one of the more legit red cards we've had this season. The Shankland one at vermin park for example was a shocker.

We got the point we needed so **** it. I'm over it already.

Spot on. Don't mind about Cochrane because he's good and will be a good part of our team if he's still here. More Rowles I'm worried about with repeats of his defending.

[RedStarRiot]

31 minutes ago, jamboiain13 said:

I agree, at the time thought Cadden dived and having watched the highlights I don't think Cochrane expects Cadden to be right on top of him as he tries to hook the ball clear and since Cadden jumps through Cochrane in a vain attempt at winning the ball Alex catches the Hibs runt on the bottom of his foot and Cadden goes sprawling into the box appealing for a pen.  What was Cochrane supposed to do? Just let Cadden nick the ball of his toe?  Not for a second do I believe there was any malice or deliberate attempt to injure an opposition player in Cochrane's challenge (unlike several challenges initiated by JDH and others throughout the match especially the assault on big Pete) and I have no doubt that had Cadden managed to cleanly win the ball off Cochrane he would not have been in control of the ball simply because he was off the ground at speed and the ball most likely would have ran out for a goal kick or into Zander's arms.

Anyway...hope we appeal that one as well and it too gets rescinded so the like of Scott Allan might understand that their opinion is not ever correct _ last night he said 'like Cochrane's red against Maeda, it was the correct decision'...well since that got downgraded it obviously wasn't ya wee Hibs d**k

I agree with most of this. 

 

Only part you got wrong was the Celtic red card. We didn't appeal that one, although it's hard to keep track of the reds since we get so many. 

[RedStarRiot]

39 minutes ago, cosanostra said:

 

It's definitely one of the more legit red cards we've had this season. The Shankland one at vermin park for example was a shocker.

We got the point we needed so **** it. I'm over it already.

I watched it multiple times and I'm not convinced it was a red.

 

I don't believe Cadden had a clear goal scoring opportunity with the way he's coming in to clear the ball.

 

I also don't believe Cochrane initiated contact with him but the other way round.

[Beave1874]

9 hours ago, Aussie Jambo said:

Had to make it smaller as wouldn’t upload as too big. The clip I’ve got shows him walking off. But I’m sure if you watch game again on Hearts tv then you’ll see it. 

Not a criticism man, appreciate you posting that up. 👍👍

[i8hibsh]

7 hours ago, cosanostra said:

I'm not even mad at the red card. Cochrane needed to defend better but he'll learn and the better team finished in 4th.

We didn't look very well set up for the free kick though. 

 

 

I hope he does learn cosa but it is starting to be pretty clear that discipline and football intelligence are seriously lackiing at our club.

 

Cochrane has sold the jersey a good few times now. Without picking on him there are several players I would call a liability. Nothing to do with their fight, desire or abilities they are just always a split second away from a red. I always fear when Devlin plays too. 

 

Hearts discipline has cost us 3rd place. Hibs have half their points from playing with an extra man and we are always playing against an extra man it seems.

 

This MUST be a priority next season, we have to behave better and get smarter. I think Cochrane in no uncertain terms must be told to get smarter or get out. We must get ruthless as these constant red cards are unforgivable.

[cosanostra]

8 minutes ago, i8hibsh said:

 

 

I hope he does learn cosa but it is starting to be pretty clear that discipline and football intelligence are seriously lackiing at our club.

 

Cochrane has sold the jersey a good few times now. Without picking on him there are several players I would call a liability. Nothing to do with their fight, desire or abilities they are just always a split second away from a red. I always fear when Devlin plays too. 

 

Hearts discipline has cost us 3rd place. Hibs have half their points from playing with an extra man and we are always playing against an extra man it seems.

 

This MUST be a priority next season, we have to behave better and get smarter. I think Cochrane in no uncertain terms must be told to get smarter or get out. We must get ruthless as these constant red cards are unforgivable.

 

Definitely something that needs to be addressed. Red cards are such a massive disadvantage. 

Needless ones like Grant v Zurich still piss me off tbh. That one was hard to forgive. Although I can't even imagine how demoralising it would have been getting absolutely scudded in Europe 6 times instead of 4.

[Aussie Jambo]

29 minutes ago, Beave1874 said:

Not a criticism man, appreciate you posting that up. 👍👍

Not taken that way jambo brother. All good. 

[WorldChampions1902]

Portaloo at yesterdays game. Spewing again. Nice.

 

[WorldChampions1902]

Hubs Ultras sporting “Carry On” t-shirts. How appropriate!

 

[Drumjambo]

21 hours ago, busbyfth said:

something went wrong mid season - no idea if he fell out with Robbie but it was strange as earlier in the term he was starting to show just how good he might be 

 

Neilson wouldn't know a football player if he bit him on the arse From Connor Sammon to Kio an absolute clown

 

[Jingle Bells]

Hubs getting the same Refereeing privileges as the Hun and Tic at Tynie thanks to Petrie being the SFA Chairman?

5 hours ago, i8hibsh said:

 

 

I hope he does learn cosa but it is starting to be pretty clear that discipline and football intelligence are seriously lackiing at our club.

 

Cochrane has sold the jersey a good few times now. Without picking on him there are several players I would call a liability. Nothing to do with their fight, desire or abilities they are just always a split second away from a red. I always fear when Devlin plays too. 

 

Hearts discipline has cost us 3rd place. Hibs have half their points from playing with an extra man and we are always playing against an extra man it seems.

 

This MUST be a priority next season, we have to behave better and get smarter. I think Cochrane in no uncertain terms must be told to get smarter or get out. We must get ruthless as these constant red cards are unforgivable.

 

I agree that Cochrane was a bit naïve but I'm still not so sure that Nesbit wasn't off side earlier too 

[wavydavy]

7 minutes ago, Jingle Bells said:

Hubs getting the same Refereeing privileges as the Hun and Tic at Tynie thanks to Petrie being the SFA Chairman?

 

I agree that Cochrane was a bit naïve but I'm still not so sure that Nesbit wasn't off side earlier too 

 

One thing is for sure we should never leave Rowles as the last man as he is so weak it is unreal. He seems to have trouble staying upright and is far too easily moved off the ball without even being fouled.

 

He looked decent when playing alongside Halkett but Sibbick is a similar type to him and we need a much stronger CB.

 

Cochrane needs to learn from his mistakes.

 

[briever]

7 hours ago, cosanostra said:

 

It's definitely one of the more legit red cards we've had this season. The Shankland one at vermin park for example was a shocker.

We got the point we needed so **** it. I'm over it already.

 

I dont like these fk/pens etc given for players who sneak in between the ball and player who has no idea he is there - award a foul, but there is zero intent and that should matter when doling out cards.

[Jingle Bells]

13 minutes ago, wavydavy said:

 

One thing is for sure we should never leave Rowles as the last man as he is so weak it is unreal. He seems to have trouble staying upright and is far too easily moved off the ball without even being fouled.

 

He looked decent when playing alongside Halkett but Sibbick is a similar type to him and we need a much stronger CB.

 

Cochrane needs to learn from his mistakes.

 

 

I'm hoping that better coaching and gym work will help them both together with a years playing experience  under their belts.

I agree though that the defending this season has been a bit iffy to say the least 

Kio is the one I worry about , very odd running style for a footballer.

[briever]

20 minutes ago, wavydavy said:

 

One thing is for sure we should never leave Rowles as the last man as he is so weak it is unreal. He seems to have trouble staying upright and is far too easily moved off the ball without even being fouled.

 

He looked decent when playing alongside Halkett but Sibbick is a similar type to him and we need a much stronger CB.

 

Cochrane needs to learn from his mistakes.

 

Both Rowles and Atkinson need a summer in the gym - their upper body strength is very poor.  Rowles really needs to improve his defensive heading too.

[TyphoonJambo]

On 27/05/2023 at 12:06, rwmhmfc said:

 

 

[TyphoonJambo]

Bushiri scrubs up well tbf

[sadj]

6 hours ago, i8hibsh said:

 

 

I hope he does learn cosa but it is starting to be pretty clear that discipline and football intelligence are seriously lackiing at our club.

 

Cochrane has sold the jersey a good few times now. Without picking on him there are several players I would call a liability. Nothing to do with their fight, desire or abilities they are just always a split second away from a red. I always fear when Devlin plays too. 

 

Hearts discipline has cost us 3rd place. Hibs have half their points from playing with an extra man and we are always playing against an extra man it seems.

 

This MUST be a priority next season, we have to behave better and get smarter. I think Cochrane in no uncertain terms must be told to get smarter or get out. We must get ruthless as these constant red cards are unforgivable.

i think youll find your post is where the intelligence is lacking football or not ill let you think about. You are absolutely just one of the main things about this forum that makes it awful these days. 

[sadj]

6 hours ago, cosanostra said:

 

Definitely something that needs to be addressed. Red cards are such a massive disadvantage. 

Needless ones like Grant v Zurich still piss me off tbh. That one was hard to forgive. Although I can't even imagine how demoralising it would have been getting absolutely scudded in Europe 6 times instead of 4.

Those ones are fair enough “i8”s pish post is just that though. Discipline hasnt been an issue in general. Weve had some awful decisions against us. Cochrane v Celtic, Haring v St Mirren Grant v Motherwell etc just horrendous. Grant v Zurich was a disgrace and that sort of thing should and would have brought a big fine others havent really been that bad or contentious bar Shankland v Hibs. So no it doesnt need addressed. You can legislate for awful reffing. Look at the lino on Wed trying to rule out our first goal for example. Thats what we deal with regularly and you cant “get smarter” or “address that with players to avoid it”

Edited May 28, 2023 by sadj

[wavydavy]

9 minutes ago, Jingle Bells said:

 

I'm hoping that better coaching and gym work will help them both together with a years playing experience  under their belts.

I agree though that the defending this season has been a bit iffy to say the least 

Kio is the one I worry about , very odd running style for a footballer.

 

This guy should be nowhere near our team in any capacity and that goes for Grant as well.

 

Folk on here keep saying there is a player in there somewhere but I have yet to see it. He offers nothing defensively or going forward.

 

He had one decent header yesterday but most of the time he runs about pointing and doing nothing.

[wavydavy]

30 minutes ago, briever said:

Both Rowles and Atkinson need a summer in the gym - their upper body strength is very poor.  Rowles really needs to improve his defensive heading too.

 

I have to say I think Atkinson has improved in his last few games and looked stronger in the tackle however they both still need work.

[liam11]

3 minutes ago, wavydavy said:

 

I have to say I think Atkinson has improved in his last few games and looked stronger in the tackle however they both still need work.

His recovery tackle is immense. Hugh risk though and needs to work on getting not beat first time around

[john thomas]

48 minutes ago, briever said:

 

I dont like these fk/pens etc given for players who sneak in between the ball and player who has no idea he is there - award a foul, but there is zero intent and that should matter when doling out cards.

Agree . Something inherently unfair about being red carded for that 

[briever]

11 minutes ago, wavydavy said:

 

I have to say I think Atkinson has improved in his last few games and looked stronger in the tackle however they both still need work.

 

Atkinson is a different player in the last month - been really pleased with his progress - still far too easily forced off the ball though.

[briever]

32 minutes ago, wavydavy said:

 

This guy should be nowhere near our team in any capacity and that goes for Grant as well.

 

Folk on here keep saying there is a player in there somewhere but I have yet to see it. He offers nothing defensively or going forward.

 

He had one decent header yesterday but most of the time he runs about pointing and doing nothing.

 

I wouldn't be in the slightest bit bothered if Kio, Grant and Forrest left.

[1971fozzy]

Why did Hill get booked ?  Was it for celebrating Odas goal ?

If so then surely Nisbet should get booked by gesturing to Hearts fans when he scored ?

[Half time pie]

54 minutes ago, TypoonJambo said:

Bushiri scrubs up well tbf

🤣🤣🤣

[Jingle Bells]

43 minutes ago, wavydavy said:

 

This guy should be nowhere near our team in any capacity and that goes for Grant as well.

 

Folk on here keep saying there is a player in there somewhere but I have yet to see it. He offers nothing defensively or going forward.

 

He had one decent header yesterday but most of the time he runs about pointing and doing nothing.

 

I think he is meant to be plugging the gaps/spaces when other teams attack rather than proactively getting the boot in or doing any attacking.

Its the kinda pishy crap that Neilson was influenced by when watching to much EPL football and he would then go out and get a substandard player version of what was happening there.

He still couldn't get it to work though, no matter how much he tried!

[Mikey1874]

Schooled by Oda. Subbed off to prevent him being sent off.

 

 

[gregzy2k7]

5 hours ago, TypoonJambo said:

Bushiri scrubs up well tbf

😂😄😅🤣🤣🤣

[TexasAndy]

On 28/05/2023 at 01:34, cosanostra said:

I'm not even mad at the red card. Cochrane needed to defend better but he'll learn and the better team finished in 4th.

We didn't look very well set up for the free kick though. 

Spot on with Cochrane.  As good as he is this is a weakness he needs to work on.  I think you learn with experience, ie; it's hibs they are going to dive if you go anywhere near them.  Funny thing about the free kick is I thought we had left too much space on Clark's left side.   Thought we had the right side covered.  

[MattyK82]

 

[Skacelsid]

Rowles positioning was poor,  if Nisbet wants to be on the centre line let him, you do not follow him like he wants you to. Similar for St Mirren goal if I remember. Naive play/coaching. Then if Cochrane runs full out he gets there comfortably, he doesn't sprint though but still got there in time to just run it to the goal line and clear it for a throw. Poor defensively all round but easy fixes.

[PapaShango]

1 hour ago, MattyK82 said:

 

Hadn't seen that before, brilliant! 

[PapaShango]

1 hour ago, Skacelsid said:

Rowles positioning was poor,  if Nisbet wants to be on the centre line let him, you do not follow him like he wants you to. Similar for St Mirren goal if I remember. Naive play/coaching. Then if Cochrane runs full out he gets there comfortably, he doesn't sprint though but still got there in time to just run it to the goal line and clear it for a throw. Poor defensively all round but easy fixes.

Rowles caught big time in the lead up. I actually thought when the review was taking so long that they might have checked to see if he was offside. Haven't seen a replay again on how close he was. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

[Hackney Hearts]

19 hours ago, briever said:

 

I dont like these fk/pens etc given for players who sneak in between the ball and player who has no idea he is there - award a foul, but there is zero intent and that should matter when doling out cards.

 

Agree completely. Maybe the rules need tweaking.

A foul is a foul obviously, but there should be some nuance between accidental and deliberate when it comes to red cards. Red cards usually ruin games as a spectacle, so there needs to be a higher burden of proof. The "denying a clear goalscoring opportunity" bit is meant to punish what used to called a professional foul, and implies intent. Cadden was being cute, Cochrane got unwittingly caught out - but the fairer sanction would have been free kick and yellow card.

Especially when you compare with some of the deliberate reckless challenges then went unpunished elsewhere.

[GBJambo]

9 minutes ago, Hackney Hearts said:

 

Agree completely. Maybe the rules need tweaking.

A foul is a foul obviously, but there should be some nuance between accidental and deliberate when it comes to red cards. Red cards usually ruin games as a spectacle, so there needs to be a higher burden of proof. The "denying a clear goalscoring opportunity" bit is meant to punish what used to called a professional foul, and implies intent. Cadden was being cute, Cochrane got unwittingly caught out - but the fairer sanction would have been free kick and yellow card.

Especially when you compare with some of the deliberate reckless challenges then went unpunished elsewhere.

Also compare it to when Shankland was brought down. If you take Caden having a goal scoring opportunity then so did Shankland . This seems to have been brushed over 

[132goals1958]

47 minutes ago, Hackney Hearts said:

 

Agree completely. Maybe the rules need tweaking.

A foul is a foul obviously, but there should be some nuance between accidental and deliberate when it comes to red cards. Red cards usually ruin games as a spectacle, so there needs to be a higher burden of proof. The "denying a clear goalscoring opportunity" bit is meant to punish what used to called a professional foul, and implies intent. Cadden was being cute, Cochrane got unwittingly caught out - but the fairer sanction would have been free kick and yellow card.

Especially when you compare with some of the deliberate reckless challenges then went unpunished elsewhere.

 

They really are ridiculous red cards. Cochrane has his back to Cadden, attempts to clear the ball and their is a coming together. Basically the offence is a straightforward foul as there was no intention to commit the offence .Some of the handball penalties given those days are an absolute joke. As you say there should be a " what is reasonable in the circumstances approach " Unfortunately the test of reasonability and common sense are in short supply with those who oversee the game. 

[spirt of 98]

No sure this was a penalty

 

Edited May 29, 2023 by spirt of 98

[RENE]

52 minutes ago, spirt of 98 said:

No sure this was a penalty

 

In that pic Cochrane got the ball. It was never inside the box anyway.

[spirt of 98]

3 hours ago, RENE said:

In that pic Cochrane got the ball. It was never inside the box anyway.

Sorry I should have said not sure this was even a free kick. Appears to get the ball. Same old SFA benefit of the doubt to anyone bar Hearts. 

[hughesie27]

5 hours ago, RENE said:

In that pic Cochrane got the ball. It was never inside the box anyway.

In that pic both players could easily have missed it. Red card and free kick was the right call in actual real time and replays. 

[Pasquale for King]

Never again do I want to hear Two Tribes at a derby, we always draw when its played “a point is all that you can score”. First heard it at 2016 cup game 🤦🏽. 

[Pasquale for King]

5 hours ago, spirt of 98 said:

Sorry I should have said not sure this was even a free kick. Appears to get the ball. Same old SFA benefit of the doubt to anyone bar Hearts. 

That picture is after Cadden touches it, Cochrane did not touch the ball.
That still is the kind of thing Celtic fans post on Twitter, we are better than that. 

[ri Alban]

On 28/05/2023 at 09:15, RedStarRiot said:

I watched it multiple times and I'm not convinced it was a red.

 

I don't believe Cadden had a clear goal scoring opportunity with the way he's coming in to clear the ball.

 

I also don't believe Cochrane initiated contact with him but the other way round.

If you think that's not red, you should stop watching football. Watch the Celtic red again and you can see him pull the attackers arm. Cochrane doesn't have a clue how to paly one on one. He nearly got Hearts in bother minutes early in the Derby with a dodgy tackle at the edge of the box near the corner flag. 

 

He's a liability, who needs heavy coaching on how to defend.

[ri Alban]

4 hours ago, Pasquale for King said:

Never again do I want to hear Two Tribes at a derby, we always draw when its played “a point is all that you can score”. First heard it at 2016 cup game 🤦🏽. 

Seven nation army on repeat, would be much better.💪