Bauld Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 Ignoring our manager and current squad, it's injury problems etc. Robbie is good enough to get us third place. The squads good enough, if everyone is fit or, at least the vast majority are anyway. We all know that. Even with all the problems we have we are 3 points off 3rd spot just now and the league seasons barely started. But where are we supposed to find this other level from? First thing is obviously money. Celtic and Rangers can pay 10-25k a week to players. Pocket change compared to other leagues. How do we reach that level? How do we attract a player of that quality, how do we build a squad of that quality? Where do we get the money to throw down 2-3 million on a player and then pay his fees, wages etc? The teams we are playing are heavily invested. The teams across Europe are heavily invested in. Its a big boys playground. You look at other countries and think diddy nation like Cyprus and then you see their teams have players in them like ****ing Kokorin on loan from Fiorentina! We are a fan run club. Living tightly within its means. In a league that earns buttons. Scraping the free transfer market and bargain bins for players that'll accept 2k a week. If you can tell me where we find these next levels from. I'm all ears because I'm looking at the whole infrastructure and what we are up against. I see nothing more for us beyond where we are at for at least another 7-10 years. Until then we will be 3rd in Scotland and in Europe we'll be making up the numbers like RFS and others are and just taking the cash for our troubles. We may as well just get behind the team and manager and enjoy the ride. Highs and lows. HHGH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hearts00 Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 Agree for the most part but let’s start with this. Our wage bill is miles ahead of 8 of the teams in the Premiership. How about we don’t look utter pish against Livingston, motherwell and Kilmarnock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malinga the Swinga Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 Apparently players just need to believe. That and the mystic manager who will bring players who are never injured, never want to leave for more money, never want to play at a higher level and never have a bad game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hmfc1965 Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 There's a lot of sense in this. I think though some of us would like to see us actually competing as opposed to looking like conceding a goal every time the ball comes near our box. We aren't making the best of what we have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegas-voss Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 2 minutes ago, hearts00 said: Agree for the most part but let’s start with this. Our wage bill is miles ahead of 8 of the teams in the Premiership. How about we don’t look utter pish against Livingston, motherwell and Kilmarnock. Is it miles ahead in the terms of players we can largely bring in.We all still pretty much fish in the same areas for players.Just because we pay better wages doesn't mean we are bringing in miles better quality wise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegas-voss Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 Biggest problem and it has been for decades we don't produce good enough home grown talent in Scotland and the odd ones we do now are pretty much zipped off down to England before they even reach the pro stage now.Not just a Hearts problem though it's Scotland on a whole. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bauld Posted October 13, 2022 Author Share Posted October 13, 2022 3 minutes ago, vegas-voss said: Is it miles ahead in the terms of players we can largely bring in.We all still pretty much fish in the same areas for players.Just because we pay better wages doesn't mean we are bringing in miles better quality wise. Exactly this. The difference between being able to pay a player 1k a week and 3k a week is really not going to change the area you're fishing in. It is still bottom feeding stuff in the football world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamboinglasgow Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 3 minutes ago, vegas-voss said: Biggest problem and it has been for decades we don't produce good enough home grown talent in Scotland and the odd ones we do now are pretty much zipped off down to England before they even reach the pro stage now.Not just a Hearts problem though it's Scotland on a whole. Completely agree, there is talent in Scottish youngsters but as you say, clubs down south are now snapping them all up (which Brexit has made worse as English clubs cant sign young foreign talent like they could, so they Scottish youngsters are cheap.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirkdiggler77 Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 Could the club not use the loan market better? Emerging talents from EPL whom would normally go to the Championship with the Offer of European Football and playing in front of demanding big crowds. Or get free agents out of our price range with a deal that gives the player greater back end like sell on % so they can get their career back on track for a year then move on and take a chunk. More faith in the youth, that 18-21 period is crucial and sending players out on loan to lower league for 2-3 seasons kills their trajectory, if they have genuine skill get them in early and let them feel part of the club with an incentive to do well Try to sign up the best of the rest prospects in Scotland that the old firm don't have like Souttar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nookie Bear Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 Good OP because I wonder the same thing. That Istanbul nob that took us apart at Tynie get pitiful crowds but have Ozil playing for them. How does that happen? ”I see nothing more for us beyond where we are at for at least another 7-10 years.” I think by then the old firm will be joining a European league and we will be a force in the Scottish league. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philfigo Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 5 minutes ago, Bauld said: Exactly this. The difference between being able to pay a player 1k a week and 3k a week is really not going to change the area you're fishing in. It is still bottom feeding stuff in the football world. Aye and sometimes the player on £1,000 per week is hungrier to get better than the £3,000 one that maybe thinks he's found his level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bozi Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 I said this to my mate Europe is clearly a step too far just now, but it's not been helped we the poor recruitment particularly in the defensive area. The same folk that said Robbie shat it last week are now slagging him.off for Kamikaze tactics. No matter the manager the team is lightweight, lacking in physicality and short of centre backs. It's not a "step up in quality" it's an absolute chasm and the only player in our team with the quality to compete at that level is a 39 year old goalie Tbh we COULD get a better manager than Robbie, I would have no problems if we found a really good, top level replacement. The thing is though, it would be expensive, we would need to pay top dollar. Additionally we would need to upgrade the recruitment, buying a better level of player as well. The fact is we are not, as a club, as a team at the level we the fans want us to be and securing 3rd and getting further European money is the only way it's going to happen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cade Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 Perhaps the club should be concentrating a bit less on future plans and a bit more on the here&now. You have to get the basics right before you can aim any higher. That goes for both on and off the pitch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamboy1982 Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 19 minutes ago, hearts00 said: Agree for the most part but let’s start with this. Our wage bill is miles ahead of 8 of the teams in the Premiership. How about we don’t look utter pish against Livingston, motherwell and Kilmarnock. Our wage bill is higher than those clubs but not miles ahead. Not anywhere like the difference between us and the old firm or fiorentina. In grand scheme there’s not much of a difference between us and the teams you listed. Certainly not enough for us to expect to beat them every time, more times than not maybe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeumboyce Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 23 minutes ago, Bauld said: Ignoring our manager and current squad, it's injury problems etc. Robbie is good enough to get us third place. The squads good enough, if everyone is fit or, at least the vast majority are anyway. We all know that. Even with all the problems we have we are 3 points off 3rd spot just now and the league seasons barely started. But where are we supposed to find this other level from? First thing is obviously money. Celtic and Rangers can pay 10-25k a week to players. Pocket change compared to other leagues. How do we reach that level? How do we attract a player of that quality, how do we build a squad of that quality? Where do we get the money to throw down 2-3 million on a player and then pay his fees, wages etc? The teams we are playing are heavily invested. The teams across Europe are heavily invested in. Its a big boys playground. You look at other countries and think diddy nation like Cyprus and then you see their teams have players in them like ****ing Kokorin on loan from Fiorentina! We are a fan run club. Living tightly within its means. In a league that earns buttons. Scraping the free transfer market and bargain bins for players that'll accept 2k a week. If you can tell me where we find these next levels from. I'm all ears because I'm looking at the whole infrastructure and what we are up against. I see nothing more for us beyond where we are at for at least another 7-10 years. Until then we will be 3rd in Scotland and in Europe we'll be making up the numbers like RFS and others are and just taking the cash for our troubles. We may as well just get behind the team and manager and enjoy the ride. Highs and lows. HHGH We are closed for business, if someone with money came along and put us that wee bit above water he/they wouldn't be accepted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bauld Posted October 13, 2022 Author Share Posted October 13, 2022 3 minutes ago, Dirkdiggler77 said: Could the club not use the loan market better? Emerging talents from EPL whom would normally go to the Championship with the Offer of European Football and playing in front of demanding big crowds. Or get free agents out of our price range with a deal that gives the player greater back end like sell on % so they can get their career back on track for a year then move on and take a chunk. More faith in the youth, that 18-21 period is crucial and sending players out on loan to lower league for 2-3 seasons kills their trajectory, if they have genuine skill get them in early and let them feel part of the club with an incentive to do well Try to sign up the best of the rest prospects in Scotland that the old firm don't have like Souttar The thing about the loan market is clubs demand teams pay a % of a players wages. These days players at 17-18 are earning massive money to make sure they stay put. If a club asks Hearts to pay 20% towards a young EPL players wage that could be 5-6k a week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirkdiggler77 Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 How much roughly will this year in Europe net the club for next year? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nookie Bear Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 Just now, leeumboyce said: We are closed for business, if someone with money came along and put us that wee bit above water he/they wouldn't be accepted. Has this been confirmed? What about McKinlay? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeartsandonlyHearts Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 22 minutes ago, Hmfc1965 said: There's a lot of sense in this. I think though some of us would like to see us actually competing as opposed to looking like conceding a goal every time the ball comes near our box. We aren't making the best of what we have. We don’t have available the best we have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WageThief Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 9 minutes ago, Bauld said: Exactly this. The difference between being able to pay a player 1k a week and 3k a week is really not going to change the area you're fishing in. It is still bottom feeding stuff in the football world. Yeah it is similar to buying anything. Pay 1000 or 500 for a car and it’ll not compare to the difference between 10k and 5k. You have a similar thing at the higher end above a certain amount you get less for each £. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamboinglasgow Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 1 minute ago, Bauld said: The thing about the loan market is clubs demand teams pay a % of a players wages. These days players at 17-18 are earning massive money to make sure they stay put. If a club asks Hearts to pay 20% towards a young EPL players wage that could be 5-6k a week. Yup, exactly. We could be in pole position for a talented EPL youngster, we could argue that we will take the player forward and give great opportunities but if a League One club came in offering to cover more of the players wage than we would, the EPL club would send the youngster to the League One club (I think thats what happened with Alex Mighten.) Scottish football needs much more money in it to grow, but we decided to go for a terrible TV deal for the next 7 years to would have a few hundred thousand more to our income. Europe is our best chance to grow our income, though non-football income could also help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirkdiggler77 Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 One thing i have often thought about which i doubt could happen it's a bit out there but not completely illogical Signing players in the summer on super short but expensive contracts purely for the Europa Qualifiers, pay them 10/20k per week just for a month Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bull's-eye Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 Just enjoy being part of a unique, special club. Its how I've always viewed my time as a PHM. I pretty much gave up on caring about results a very long time ago, when I walk out of the stadium on match days, it's gone. Granted, the beer tastes sweeter after a win 😜 I love the club more than ever, I've not got massive expectations and delusions of grandeur though. We are what we are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heartsfc_fan Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 I'm confident we'll get 3rd place. Europe has been a brilliant experience but with injuries it's been a touch of reality. World cup is looming. We'll have players back from injury after that and with no midweek games we'll be fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirkdiggler77 Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 2 minutes ago, Bull's-eye said: Just enjoy being part of a unique, special club. Its how I've always viewed my time as a PHM. I pretty much gave up on caring about results a very long time ago, when I walk out of the stadium on match days, it's gone. Granted, the beer tastes sweeter after a win 😜 I love the club more than ever, I've not got massive expectations and delusions of grandeur though. We are what we are. Spot on, Would people really be happier if another Romanov type came along ploughed in cash and won the SPL? It would all be completely superficial I feel sorry for the genuine Man City/and PSG fans who can't stand where they are and just want to go back to a regular crappy club Never sell your soul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirky Jambo Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 It’s reasonable to be realistic but still critical though. Poor transfer window, tactics and performances and ultimately 5 wins in 20 (or along those lines) should really see a manager under serious scrutiny for a club like us. There are mitigations as you say, injuries being one and the fact some of the fixtures were difficult and a couple relatively meaningless. I don’t think it’s unfair to be a little disgruntled. If we lose to Aberdeen and Celtic (both likely outcomes on current evidence) our chances of third will be looking pretty remote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricardo Quaresma Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 Another arsehole who thinks we pay 2k a week Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whodanny Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 9 minutes ago, Bull's-eye said: Just enjoy being part of a unique, special club. Its how I've always viewed my time as a PHM. I pretty much gave up on caring about results a very long time ago, when I walk out of the stadium on match days, it's gone. Granted, the beer tastes sweeter after a win 😜 I love the club more than ever, I've not got massive expectations and delusions of grandeur though. We are what we are. I want us to be better, always. But after so many years, you get to realise that we are Hearts, sometimes we're up, sometimes we're down. I don't like it, I hate it, but as long as Scottish football is run for the benefit of two horrible, corrupt organisations in Glasgow, it will ever be. Love The Hearts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naisys Tackle Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Dirkdiggler77 said: Spot on, Would people really be happier if another Romanov type came along ploughed in cash and won the SPL? It would all be completely superficial I feel sorry for the genuine Man City/and PSG fans who can't stand where they are and just want to go back to a regular crappy club Never sell your soul Yes. Under Romanov before it went shit was much better than it's ever been under Budge/Fan owned (in name only). Nicosia just lost a last min goal to lose at Old Trafford. Whats the difference of the players for both thems? I 'm pretty certain in terms of wages and transfer fees MUCH more of a financial gulf in that game than there is between us and Fiorentina/Istanbul and even the Old Firm. Edited October 13, 2022 by Robbies Tackle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirkdiggler77 Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 5 minutes ago, Robbies Tackle said: Yes. Under Romanov before it went shit was much better than it's ever been under Budge/Fan owned (in name only). Nicosia just lost a last min goal to lose at Old Trafford. Whats the difference of the players for both thems? I 'm pretty certain in terms of wages and transfer fees MUCH more of a financial gulf in that game than there is between us and Fiorentina/Istanbul and even the Old Firm. But none of it is real, anything won would always be met with 'yeah but you bought it' If in anyworld the Old Firm are the toppled don't you want it to be on your own merit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naisys Tackle Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 Hearts value transfermarkt - Just under £14m Nicosia - just under £19m Fiorentina - £260m Man Utd - £713m. Nicosia are valued £5m more than us but give them a game home and away. Fiorentina are valued a lot less than half of Man Utd and beat us by half time easily both games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naisys Tackle Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 (edited) 1 minute ago, Dirkdiggler77 said: But none of it is real, anything won would always be met with 'yeah but you bought it' If in anyworld the Old Firm are the toppled don't you want it to be on your own merit What? We won the Cup twice and it meant the world to me. No, if we became the best team in Scotland with Champions League etc I wouldn't care less, like I never when we won the cups. Edited October 13, 2022 by Robbies Tackle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watt-Zeefuik Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 52 minutes ago, hearts00 said: Agree for the most part but let’s start with this. Our wage bill is miles ahead of 8 of the teams in the Premiership. How about we don’t look utter pish against Livingston, motherwell and Kilmarnock. It really isn't miles ahead. Absent an infusion of European money (only a little of which has arrived yet), it's largely indistinguishable from the wage bill of Hibs or Aberdeen, and it's only maybe 1.25-1.75 that of United and Motherwell. Even County, who probably have the smallest wage bill, are probably at 30-40% of our wage bill. It's nowhere near the multiple between us and the OF, much less Fiorentina. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmreido Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 If we were gonna get humped tonight, the scoreline was what we all wished for😅 Never let them forget. HHGH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salvo69 Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 4 minutes ago, Robbies Tackle said: Hearts value transfermarkt - Just under £14m Nicosia - just under £19m Fiorentina - £260m Man Utd - £713m. Nicosia are valued £5m more than us but give them a game home and away. Fiorentina are valued a lot less than half of Man Utd and beat us by half time easily both games. Some times you get lucky….I watched the Man U game and they had 40 shots on goal! They could easily have beaten them 10-0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naisys Tackle Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 Just now, salvo69 said: Some times you get lucky….I watched the Man U game and they had 40 shots on goal! They could easily have beaten them 10-0 Sometimes you do. But the same team lead 1-0 at half time last week. Half time for us usually means game over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watt-Zeefuik Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 To respond to the OP, to me any squad is necessarily the accumulation of the contract and transfer work of the last three years, primarily. While 2019/20 was an utterly dismal season in all respects, we did sign a few mainstays then. We also have a few long term holdovers like Haring and Smith. But for the most part, our squad is now based off of two windows signing players for the Championship one window as a newly promoted team, one window as a team in third, and one window headed to Europe, with a bit of European cash to spend. The way we progress is by having a run of windows where we're in the top four and paying with a European credit card. If we somehow manage that for three seasons running, I expect us to be in a much stronger place than we are now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bauld Posted October 13, 2022 Author Share Posted October 13, 2022 12 minutes ago, Robbies Tackle said: Yes. Under Romanov before it went shit was much better than it's ever been under Budge/Fan owned (in name only). Nicosia just lost a last min goal to lose at Old Trafford. Whats the difference of the players for both thems? I 'm pretty certain in terms of wages and transfer fees MUCH more of a financial gulf in that game than there is between us and Fiorentina/Istanbul and even the Old Firm. It was better? The Vlad years were an absolute basket case. We won the cup and finished second. After that it was ****ing chaos! The brand of football . With Csaba especially was worse than anything Robbie and Levein conjure up. David Witteveen Christian Nade Paying Larry Kingston a fortune A squad of about 300 players at the training ground. All pish. How many times did we finish 3rd and look like scotlands third force between 06 and 12? Your memory must be brutal if you think we had it better then. We were eye bleeding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superjack Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 32 minutes ago, Dirkdiggler77 said: Spot on, Would people really be happier if another Romanov type came along ploughed in cash and won the SPL? It would all be completely superficial I feel sorry for the genuine Man City/and PSG fans who can't stand where they are and just want to go back to a regular crappy club Never sell your soul That's a good point. Part of me would be delighted if that happened and we won the league, it as you said, would it mean the same of wenonly won it because we were doing what the in firm have always done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dagger Is Back Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 I think we have to accept that for some time to come we’ll be miles off the pace in Europe. Focus needs to be on finishing 3rd, picking up cup trophies and continuing to build. We MUST be the best of the rest. I never ever want to see us in the hands of a sugar daddy. I’m happy to forego what success a sugar daddy might bring us. Once bitten twice shy. I think we should seek and embrace summer football and use that to secure an enhanced TV deal. Rangers/Celtic have shown that it doesn’t matter what your home crowds are. It doesn’t buy you or guarantee you success as they’ve found out. Ajax regularly produce outstanding young talent which is then half inched. We need to be doing similarly. How many of our young players have made the grade? What the games against Fiorentina and Istanbul have shown me is that we’re miles away. We need to be stronger, fitter, quicker of mind and feet and more technically adept. Our Euro campaign is disappointing but not unexpected. Absolute hats off to all the lads and lassies who spent their hard earned following the Hearts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Australis Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 1 hour ago, hearts00 said: Agree for the most part but let’s start with this. Our wage bill is miles ahead of 8 of the teams in the Premiership. How about we don’t look utter pish against Livingston, motherwell and Kilmarnock. Exactly. We can't even do the basics. But struggle so much especially away from home against the so called smaller teams. Is it because they have managers who can organise and get respect from their players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naisys Tackle Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 2 minutes ago, Led Tasso said: To respond to the OP, to me any squad is necessarily the accumulation of the contract and transfer work of the last three years, primarily. While 2019/20 was an utterly dismal season in all respects, we did sign a few mainstays then. We also have a few long term holdovers like Haring and Smith. But for the most part, our squad is now based off of two windows signing players for the Championship one window as a newly promoted team, one window as a team in third, and one window headed to Europe, with a bit of European cash to spend. The way we progress is by having a run of windows where we're in the top four and paying with a European credit card. If we somehow manage that for three seasons running, I expect us to be in a much stronger place than we are now. Yet it's still completely obvious that the strongest players we have are all from the former group. We need to be careful and bring in players to hit the ground running and improve the first team - the majority of the summer players simply do not do that sadly and it shows. Since January the only new players that have came to the club and have shown to improve the first team have been Simms, Rowles and Shankland/Humpreys (are they better additions than Simms? for me no). Rowles so far hasn't shown to be an upgrade on Souttar, you can claim JS's injuries but Rowles has been injured too. Forrest, Grant, Kio nothing yet to show they improve the first team. Neilson hopefully eventually, Snoddy probably will but will he stay fit? The Summer signings last year you could see right away there was direct upgrade in positions even the same the year before. Something has went really wrong this summer while shouting quality over quantity when ironically this was the first major window thats not happened for whatever reason. We look to have invested in a midfield full of squad fillers and neglected the CH position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brauhauser2012 Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 What we need is a really good manager. Someone who can punch well above the weight of the club. A modern JJ. Neilson is thick. You cannot compete on wages so you need to compete on superior tactics and team construction by finding players that work well together. Neilson cannot do this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naisys Tackle Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Bauld said: It was better? The Vlad years were an absolute basket case. We won the cup and finished second. After that it was ****ing chaos! The brand of football . With Csaba especially was worse than anything Robbie and Levein conjure up. David Witteveen Christian Nade Paying Larry Kingston a fortune A squad of about 300 players at the training ground. All pish. How many times did we finish 3rd and look like scotlands third force between 06 and 12? Your memory must be brutal if you think we had it better then. We were eye bleeding. Is that not what I said? Before it went wrong it was better than anything under Budge. Even after the greatest derby win ever. We finished second and splt the old Firm won 2 Cup and played in the Champions League. You want to compare it to finishing 3rd behind Aberdeen and winning nothing? Bash on. For all that we still didn't find ourselves bottom 6 much let alone in the Championship all done on Budges Hearts. Edited October 13, 2022 by Robbies Tackle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bauld Posted October 13, 2022 Author Share Posted October 13, 2022 3 minutes ago, Brauhauser2012 said: What we need is a really good manager. Someone who can punch well above the weight of the club. A modern JJ. Neilson is thick. You cannot compete on wages so you need to compete on superior tactics and team construction by finding players that work well together. Neilson cannot do this. You are aware that managers of that calibre also cost money and also get targeted for jobs way above our level? If we did find a manager like that he'd be lucky to get 2 seasons with us before some team like the OF or down south snap him up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamborich Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 6 minutes ago, Brauhauser2012 said: What we need is a really good manager. Someone who can punch well above the weight of the club. A modern JJ. Neilson is thick. You cannot compete on wages so you need to compete on superior tactics and team construction by finding players that work well together. Neilson cannot do this. Agree Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naisys Tackle Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 1 minute ago, Bauld said: You are aware that managers of that calibre also cost money and also get targeted for jobs way above our level? If we did find a manager like that he'd be lucky to get 2 seasons with us before some team like the OF or down south snap him up. So a manager like Lennon, who managed the shite falls into that category? I would gladly have a manager that good others want him or gets interest. It shows the job he would be doing. Robbie? No interest at all and dropped his pants to MK Dons. Why do you think that our best manager in modern history (cookoo) isnt wanted by any bigger clubs like ever? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougal Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 Yes we've had injuries and are missing several key players but some of the goals we are conceding are criminal. Giving decent teams free headers is bloody unforgivable. It doesn't matter how depleted you are or are how much better the other team is, the least that we should be doing is marking players properly when crosses come into the box. I would expect any team we play to make it difficult for us to score from crosses yet it seems to be so easy against us at this time. Yes we are missing crucial players but that is what coaches and training is for. If we're going to persist with playing players out of position then at least coach them how to defend crosses. The buck stops with the manager and coaches. As for how do we recruit/attract better players?? We've got a few options we can try. We could trawl through the free transfers and see if we can get lucky. We can do what we used to do and grab players from lower divisions before any other teams, like we did in the past with players like Cameron, McCann, Webster etc. We could try to sign players on loan from bigger clubs like we did with Simms and Cochrane. As we've seen with this method it can pay off but it can also mean certain players who do well price themselves out of our wage structure. We should always be trying to pick up highly rated youngsters as well and if they're good enough get them into the squad and into the team. Finally we could think about increasing our wage structure. Little steps at first, maybe one or two players be that as free transfers or on loan who are costing us more than we'd normally pay. With this option we need to be successful in some respect whether that be 3rd place and a place in Europe on a regular basis or cup finals with the odd cup win which would up our appeal and increase our budget year after year. If we could do that then hopefully we could start to increase our wage structure overall. Not an easy task but if we want to be the best of the rest and compete in European games rather than be turned over then it's what we should be aiming for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgan Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 A thread that started off with ‘ignoring our manager’ has, unsurprisingly, turned on our manager. FFS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LochcarronJambo Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 1 hour ago, Cade said: Perhaps the club should be concentrating a bit less on future plans and a bit more on the here&now. You have to get the basics right before you can aim any higher. That goes for both on and off the pitch. Totally Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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