Neilson ( merged )

[davemclaren]

Just now, Pasquale for King said:

It should be parked because we clearly have recruited well and have the third best squad, it’s a moot point. 

It’s not a moot point ( though I get you want it to be 😄) as you have to understand our starting point in order to truly judge our progress this season. 
 

 

[Debut 4]

14 hours ago, Big John Colquhoun said:

 

Crucial to our attacking play, in that they  leave our front three to get on with it, are there to win the ball back when an attack breaks down and recycle possession? Get that to an extent.

 

You’ve got to ask how necessary it is to play a “double pivot” whose main attributes are winning the ball back and protecting the defence, particularly when they’re playing in front of a back 5.

 

I could see the sense if you were playing a back four and leaving big gaps to cover when either of the fullbacks went forward.

 

As it is, the front three get left to do far too much of the creating and attacking on their own. As a centre back you’d love to play in this team, loads of protection, no big gaps to cover and not getting isolated one on one too often. It would be a tough team to play in as one of the front three.

I agree.  In all honesty I only ever like one out and out defensive midfielder.

 

I hate the tag though.  Midfield used to be about being more rounded as a player.  Of course, every player has different strengths and weaknesses but you should be able to do bits and bobs of everything in that role.

 

We’ve found two very decent midfielders in Dev and Beni but I’d rather we found someone of that standard who had a pass in his locker, can still drop into defend and break forward when it’s on.   Neilson seems to pin those hopes on GMS and Mackay by playing them just off the striker(s) but they don’t have the natural midfielder instinct.  

[Pasquale for King]

1 hour ago, davemclaren said:

It’s not a moot point ( though I get you want it to be 😄) as you have to understand our starting point in order to truly judge our progress this season. 
 

 

Our starting point was a wage bill of around £8m from last year, probably about £10 now. We are not St Mirren or Dundee Utd, we are not pulling up any trees at the minute. We are third biggest club in the country no matter what league we were demoted too. 

[FTH]

23 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Our starting point was a wage bill of around £8m from last year, probably about £10 now. We are not St Mirren or Dundee Utd, we are not pulling up any trees at the minute. We are third biggest club in the country no matter what league we were demoted too. 

 

Seems to be a common opinion on here that we weren't operating like a Premiership club while in the Championship.

 

Sure we cut our cloth a bit but we were still being run on a bigger budget than a lot of teams in the Premiership and we still signed players teams in the Premiership would have happily taken if they could afford them (granted along with a lot of Kasteneer and Frear shaped garbage too). But let's just gloss over that...

Edited February 3, 2022 by FTH

[Bazzas right boot]

He needs a contract extension. 

 

If we Continue our progress into next season Bob will get some attention from elsewhere. 

 

 

[Bazzas right boot]

27 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Our starting point was a wage bill of around £8m from last year, probably about £10 now. We are not St Mirren or Dundee Utd, we are not pulling up any trees at the minute. We are third biggest club in the country no matter what league we were demoted too. 

 

 

Football manager stuff. 

No reality or context. 

 

Also, Aberdeen spend more on wages so even your incorrect point is incorrect on a point that you think is correct. 

 

 

 

[Pasquale for King]

1 hour ago, FTH said:

 

Seems to be a common opinion on here that we weren't operating like a Premiership club while in the Championship.

 

Sure we cut our cloth a bit but we were still being run on a bigger budget than a lot of teams in the Premiership and we still signed players teams in the Premiership would have happily taken if they could afford them (granted along with a lot of Kasteneer and Frear shaped garbage too). But let's just gloss over that...

Definitely 

[damo]

3 hours ago, Debut 4 said:

I agree.  In all honesty I only ever like one out and out defensive midfielder.

 

I hate the tag though.  Midfield used to be about being more rounded as a player.  Of course, every player has different strengths and weaknesses but you should be able to do bits and bobs of everything in that role.

 

We’ve found two very decent midfielders in Dev and Beni but I’d rather we found someone of that standard who had a pass in his locker, can still drop into defend and break forward when it’s on.   Neilson seems to pin those hopes on GMS and Mackay by playing them just off the striker(s) but they don’t have the natural midfielder instinct.  

Agree.

 

When I think of an attacking midfielder I think of Skacel. The way he could pick up the ball around the centre circle and after 2 or 3 touches he was in range of goals, striking a shot on target, at the very least forcing the keeper into a save (more so at Tynecastle ). As others have quite rightly said, Beni, Devlin and Haring are good players but do not have that side to their game. I've not seen them demonstrate that technique anyway. Maybe they have.

 

Sadly, these type of players don't come cheap. Not for the ones that can do it consistently anyway.

 

I dont remember Skacel dropping back too much but think we could excuse him for that !

[Riccarton3]

3 minutes ago, damo said:

Agree.

 

When I think of an attacking midfielder I think of Skacel. The way he could pick up the ball around the centre circle and after 2 or 3 touches he was in range of goals, striking a shot on target, at the very least forcing the keeper into a save (more so at Tynecastle ). As others have quite rightly said, Beni, Devlin and Haring are good players but do not have that side to their game. I've not seen them demonstrate that technique anyway. Maybe they have.

 

Sadly, these type of players don't come cheap. Not for the ones that can do it consistently anyway.

 

I dont remember Skacel dropping back too much but think we could excuse him for that !

Hartley, too, was exceptional breaking  forward with goals to match. 

[Debut 4]

49 minutes ago, damo said:

Agree.

 

When I think of an attacking midfielder I think of Skacel. The way he could pick up the ball around the centre circle and after 2 or 3 touches he was in range of goals, striking a shot on target, at the very least forcing the keeper into a save (more so at Tynecastle ). As others have quite rightly said, Beni, Devlin and Haring are good players but do not have that side to their game. I've not seen them demonstrate that technique anyway. Maybe they have.

 

Sadly, these type of players don't come cheap. Not for the ones that can do it consistently anyway.

 

I dont remember Skacel dropping back too much but think we could excuse him for that !

Aye. But as you know, Skacel was an exceptional player at our level. He was everything rolled into one.  He was courageous too, in different ways.  
 

He always looked for the ball and stood up to the physical challenge. 
 

I don’t believe we can’t find a player with a different element to their game that can compliment who we have in midfield but give us that threat.  We all thought McEneff may have been that man but doesn’t seem favoured.  
 

Even if he’s now not deemed quite good enough he’s the kind of style we need, imo.  A more natural midfielder who likes a pop but works the length of the park.  

[Big John Colquhoun]

9 hours ago, Debut 4 said:

I agree.  In all honesty I only ever like one out and out defensive midfielder.

 

I hate the tag though.  Midfield used to be about being more rounded as a player.  Of course, every player has different strengths and weaknesses but you should be able to do bits and bobs of everything in that role.

 

We’ve found two very decent midfielders in Dev and Beni but I’d rather we found someone of that standard who had a pass in his locker, can still drop into defend and break forward when it’s on.   Neilson seems to pin those hopes on GMS and Mackay by playing them just off the striker(s) but they don’t have the natural midfielder instinct.  

Aye, they’re both good at what they do. You’re right actually, I’ll rephrase, it’s not them, it’s the balance of the team going forward that’s a problem.

 

They could both be really effective in a 433 with one extra midfielder who got forward a bit more and was a creative passer.

 

They’d even work well as they are in our current 523/343 if the wing backs were actual wing backs or more comfortable in the final third/getting forward than they are.

 

Problem at the moment, the wing backs aren’t natural attacking wing players so we don’t have massive threat from them. Add that to two centre midfielders whose main attributes are winning the ball and aren’t very creative or pop up with a goal - leaves the balance going forward not quite right. Seven defensive minded players.

 

The front three just get left to do it themselves. I think that’s an entirely fair observation.

[Watt-Zeefuik]

13 hours ago, Pasquale for King said:

Some good research there, I would add in the two draws against this awful Hibs team as poor draws also. 
We have the 3rd best squad in the league so the newly promoted nonsense needs parked. 
Once again “we’ve always done this” so what do you expect, i hope for and want the best for our club. 
 

 

As I explained in the post, I did not put Hibs losses (or in earlier years, OF loses that were poor) because they'd already been noted.

 

That "awful" Hibs team is sitting 5th and counts a win over Rangers this season, and has been strengthened recently. This is what I mean by banter bleeding into kayfabe. Yes, we always like to talk about how Hibs are shit, and we are indeed a better side, but in an honest evaluation you have to go on empirical results and not on bantz.

 

You also might have noted that the great team of 97/98 dropped 4 points to a Hibs team that finished last and was relegated at the end of the season, surely a far poorer dropping of points. Indeed, had Hearts taken full points off of Hibs that season and managed a win over 9th placed Motherwell late, we'd have finished second. On top of those, add a reversal of a loss to eventual 8th placed finisher Dunfermline and we'd have won the league.

 

Yes, solely on the back of points dropped to the bottom three finishers, we blew a chance to win the league. Do you wish to tear into the tactics of one of the finest sides Hearts sides assembled in my lifetime?

 

As to dismissing us being newly promoted, it must be repeated that mighty and wealthy theRangers took three whole seasons to manage even second. "We have the 3rd best squad." Aye, and how deep have we been in the striker department for most of the season so far?

 

This will hopefully be my last post on this, because frankly, while I enjoy your posts on other topics and hence don't really want to stick you on ignore, on this particular topic it seems there is no foundational fact you will not dismiss, no sensible grounding of perspective you will shoo away, no goalpost you will not move to repeat your insistence that Robbie is somehow not fit for purpose. It has gone from reasoned debate to bantz to obsession to tinfoil hat shit.

[Sertse]

This is going to be a busy thread shortly

[Telford_jambo123]

Robbie doesn’t deserve one single complaint today! People wanted us to have a go and we started the second half doing so unfortunately rangers have more quality 

[Ethan Hunt]

Typical Neilson against the old firm. 

[NB GIN]

The defending has been abysmal 

[Watt-Zeefuik]

Going to be lots of fun with folks pouring in here claiming Neilson sat back and let them have the ball.

 

Idiots gonna idiot.

[NB GIN]

1 minute ago, Ethan Hunt said:

Typical Neilson against the old firm. 

Nope disagree 

[ramrod]

1 minute ago, Ethan Hunt said:

Typical Neilson against the old firm. 

How the **** cam you blame Neilson for this shite , the players have bottled it pure and simple 

[Telford_jambo123]

Just now, ramrod said:

How the **** cam you blame Neilson for this shite , the players have bottled it pure and simple 

This.  We are being found out when we don’t have halkett or souttar

[Bungalow Bill]

Players have to take responsibility. Blaming the manager when we’re sitting comfortably in 3rd is illogical. 

[Fire_At_The_Disco]

When’s the vote? 

[Bing1874]

1 minute ago, ramrod said:

How the **** cam you blame Neilson for this shite , the players have bottled it pure and simple 

Because he picks the team that’s the joys of being a gaffer the buck stops with you..he’s lucky that the sheep and hibs have been shite or there’s no way we would be 3rd.terrible manager and his results in big games proves it

[Ethan Hunt]

1 minute ago, ramrod said:

How the **** cam you blame Neilson for this shite , the players have bottled it pure and simple 

Wrong team selection. Wrong formation. Wrong tactics. Substitutions at the wrong time. Apart from that he did fine.

[rory78]

Waste of time going just give them 3 points - Neilson has the same kind of idea as Levein through there sit sit sit try to get through 30 mins then see what happens!WHY do that we saw what happened a while back when Hibs took the game to them at Hampden and ripped them to pieces - we look scared or unable to make a pass to our own teammates,its all very well beating the other dross but not even putting up a show MAJORITY of time in Glasgow is a joke 

[theAlvasection]

It's not his fault FFS.

ALL the players have been shocking.

[Brown Stuff 74]

Just now, theAlvasection said:

It's not his fault FFS.

ALL the players have been shocking.

 

Get your head out sand man. He is absolutely rotten in every big game. 

[ramrod]

2 minutes ago, Ethan Hunt said:

Wrong team selection. Wrong formation. Wrong tactics. Substitutions at the wrong time. Apart from that he did fine.

Oh aye another football manager maestro, erse 

[kingantti1874]

Today he deserves criticism. ****ing shite selection, shite mentality, shite application 

[Bungalow Bill]

Was that Neilson’s fault the Woodburn opportunity?

[frankblack]

Just now, Ethan Hunt said:

Wrong team selection. Wrong formation. Wrong tactics. Substitutions at the wrong time. Apart from that he did fine.

 

 

Just the usual predictable negative garbage from the likes of you still seething because we are third in the league.

 

Whatever tactics or formation he picks is always the wrong one for you whenever we lose, but if we win you say **** all and disappear for months.

[bajthejambo]

Dropping Simms and starting McEneff wide right is worthy of criticism for a start.

[innerjambo]

Robbie brought back down to earth again,  from planet Zoomer!!

[Bing1874]

No style no bottle

[ScottieMac17]

When we are good... "Well done Savage"... 

When we are bad... "FFS Neilson" 

[Guest ToqueJambo]

Interested to know what team the arseholes crawling out of the woodwork would have picked, given Souttar and Halkett are injured. Simms for McEneff is the obvious one but people have been crying out for McEneff to get a chance.

[Rory Mcilroy]

Neilson has to take part of the blame today however the players need to have a word, another big game where there is a lot of hiding going on, very few options for the man on the ball. A lot of panic leading to basic errors we don't usually see. We've got a good young squad but it feels like we are lacking character/mentality in the outfield players to win in Glasgow. Piss poor performances at Pittodrie and ER too this season. 

[StevenNaismith]

It’s easy to have a go when you’re behind in a game, takes a set of bollocks to do it from the off.

[jack D and coke]

An absolute riddy that was. They didn’t even have to play that well. Piece of pish every single ****ing time. 
Pitiful. 

[Walter Bishop]

When you have a manger with the mindset ours have its no wonder the team play with no belief at this venue. 

 

He is a shitebag. 

[Guest ToqueJambo]

4 minutes ago, Ethan Hunt said:

Wrong team selection. Wrong formation. Wrong tactics. Substitutions at the wrong time. Apart from that he did fine.

 

Enlighten us what team, formation and tactics you would have played against the 2nd best team in the country with million pound players throughout their squad?

[spacerjoe]

On 03/02/2022 at 13:09, Pasquale for King said:

Our starting point was a wage bill of around £8m from last year, probably about £10 now. We are not St Mirren or Dundee Utd, we are not pulling up any trees at the minute. We are third biggest club in the country no matter what league we were demoted too. 

And yet we've finished 3rd, how many times in the last decade?

[Stu_HMFC]

1 minute ago, Bing1874 said:

No style no bottle

Alex Neil in 😂

[Guest ToqueJambo]

2 minutes ago, Bing1874 said:

No style no bottle

 

🤣 Here they are. Get these twats to ****

 

Bring in Tommy Wright aye 🤣

Edited February 6, 2022 by ToqueJambo

[kingantti1874]

Just now, ToqueJambo said:

 

Enlighten us what team, formation and tactics you would have played against the 2nd best team in the country with million pound players throughout their squad?

he gets credit when it’s good, he is accountable when it’s bad.. badly organised, badly motivated and a poor selection 

[Ethan Hunt]

1 minute ago, frankblack said:

 

 

Just the usual predictable negative garbage from the likes of you still seething because we are third in the league.

 

Whatever tactics or formation he picks is always the wrong one for you whenever we lose, but if we win you say **** all and disappear for months.

Actually I disappear for months because I have a life. Still, as long as you’re happy with 5-0 humpings you can be on here every minute of the day. Enjoy!

[Scott Leitch]

Wouldn't have mattered had we lost by 10 today which we could have easily done. He's third and won't be going anywhere. For me this was a very predictable set up today. Haring, Gino and Simms should have started. 

 

Neilson deserves credit for getting us third and he's a safe pair of hands but we won't progress beyond third with him and maybe nobody will get us beyond third. Who knows. My opinion is we look at what options are out there in the summer though. 

[OTT]

That was a cowardly performance and a complete and utter capitulation.

 

I think the management and players need to seriously reflect on themselves following that. Devlins lack of composure meant our ascendency at the start of the 2nd half was a wasted. Boyce seems to be incapable of pressing. Rangers backline very rarely actually gets tested, when you press you can force them into mistakes which can be profited off. Boyce was sauntering about doing **** all. 

 

Yes, I'm aware that Halkett was out and Snakey was 'injured' but we were still in the game at half time. That was a 20 minute capitulation akin to what happened at Livi under Levein. Yes, Rangers are a bloody good side and I didn't expect to walk away with 3 points, but that was a seriously bad performance. Again, we looked overcome by the occasion. 

 

I also want to hear Neilsons justification for McEneff. The laddie has barely kicked a ball in anger for us for months and suddenly he's deemed good enough to start at Ibrox?? The time to get him game time was in the lead up to, not the day of. A baffling decision that warrants some explanation IMO. 

 

Both him and the team deserve to be slaughtered for that because that was miles away from good enough. Weird selection, and a total lack of composure from our players. 

 

Not ****ing good enough. 

[Dennis Reynolds]

He's got plenty praise this season, quite rightly. He got this one wrong and needs to deal with the criticism. The fact this was bumped by someone jumping to his defence is quite telling.

[Gambo]

Savage has his own men in in every department APART from manager.