Rittenhouse trial

[Vlad Magic]

15 hours ago, Sertse said:

That's completely untrue though. A .223 round is designed to ricochet within the body. The actual bullet is the exact same size as a .22 round. It's designed for accuracy. The actual casing of the round is irrelevant, FMJ is the standard for any type of cartridge. The idea it can go through multiple targets and is designed that way is absolute nonsense. A handgun can't kill multiple people despite having the exact same mechanism and usually larger rounds?

I get that your argument is politically charged etc but the things you're saying about firearms are just plain wrong.

 

Not strictly true without you specifying wether you are talking military ammunition or hunting ammunition.

 

It’s incorrect to state “a .223 round is designed to ricochet around the body”. Some are and some are not.

Military .223  REM or more commonly referred to as 5.56mm yes. It’s better to wound the guy you are shooting at because it takes 2 of his buddies to move him. At least that was the theory during war.

 

Hunting .223 REM are designed for maximum fragmentation. Specifically penetration first with a very hard ballistic tip then a lead core which fragments on impact to bone causing the round to break up into bits causing as much tissue and organ damage as possible thus killing the animal you are hunting.

 

“.223 REM are the exact same size as .22 round”

 

Again not strictly true. Yes they are the same diameter but that is the only similarity. I can’t be bothered going into rimfire, centerfire, magnum rimfire, etc etc etc however the number of variations in design, size (excluding diameter obviously) bullet weight, and application is vast. Really vast!!

 

Anyway I digress.

 

Americas constitutional laws regarding the right to bare arms is the problem. Always has been the problem and will continue to be the problem for years to come.

[JudyJudyJudy]

Quelle surprise 

[JudyJudyJudy]

 

[hughesie27]

1 minute ago, JamesM48 said:

Quelle surprise 

Proves he's a *****. Doesn't prove he is a murderer.

[JudyJudyJudy]

7 minutes ago, hughesie27 said:

Proves he's a *****. Doesn't prove he is a murderer.

Oh I don’t know about that . Gives a good insight into his poisonous mind 

[Gizmo]

3 hours ago, Captain Sausage said:

So he should be punished for putting himself into a volatile situation? Assume you’d agree that the same punishment should be doled out to everyone else there that night?

 

AC’s post 2 above is spot on. It’s bizarre that people are letting political leanings colour their opinion on this. As I see it, it’s a pretty simple case legally.

 

Should he have been there? Morally and practically speaking, no. Legally, no reason why not. 
 

Was he carrying an illegal weapon? Legally no. 
 

Did he murder anyone? Legally no. 
 

I’m not sure I get all the outrage. Dipshit idiot goes looking for trouble amongst a wave of other dipshit idiots. Gets attacked, reacts in self defence and a bunch of people died. Everything about that night was avoidable, but laying sole responsibility one one kid because it fits your political narrative is pathetic. 

The bit in bold is the only thing I agree with - he should never have had the responsibility of policing a potential riot zone with a gun when he was basically a kid. He's not trained how to police, how to diffuse confrontations or descalate a situation. He's a kid. His presence lead to the shootings and deaths. 

What a basket-case country but he'll now be elevated as a conservative, right-wing hero because he got to shoot the type of people they are also itching to shoot. Fits their "political narrative" after all, the same narrative that allows shooters to claim self-defense because they felt threatened by a kid in a hoody carrying a packet of skittles. 

The US should never have changed the law that stated self-defense only applies once you've tried to extricate yourself from the threatening situation.   

 

[Cade]

 

[Herbert.]

5 hours ago, Der Kaiser said:

 

There is no doubt he defended himself. (Although he'd never have fired as quickly with a bolt action so there would definitely have been a different outcome....probably including serious injury to himself)

He simply should not have been there and he escalated a situation by doing so. Just my opinion that he should face some sort of punishment.

 

Can you imagine if Scotland had a law where a 6th year high school pupil could turn up at a protest march with a semi automatic rifle? Their laws are ludicrous. 

 

 

 

 

So should everyone with a gun that was at the protest be punished?

[Der Kaiser]

3 minutes ago, Herbert said:

 

 

So should everyone with a gun that was at the protest be punished?

 

Yeah why not. 

 

"But the law says...yadda yadda yadda"

 

It's a backwards thinking country with a huge amount of idiots with guns. They won't change. The laws won't change. Who cares what I think.....they'll just keep killing each other because the 2nd amendment says they can collect as many guns as they want and put bullets in their trolley at Walmart beside nappies and canned cheese.

 

I've already said.....its the laws that are the real villains. 

 

 

[Sharpie]

This whole thing is a tragedy. Not only because of the deaths, but because of the so different opinions expressed, including my own. 

From basically the start I have had a problem with a seventeen year old who illegally obtained a lethal firearm, then was filmed carrying it in a ready manner while walking in an area of hostility. He and his companion in the film I watched gave an impression of being ready to react with weapons if required. This boy also boldly stated that he knew the area well because he drove through it regularly, he then went on to state that he was driving without a drivers license. So far we have two breaches of the law committed by he. He then relates things he has done with, Police Departments, Fire Departments, and First Aid Training.  There are suggestions that these courses were not to the level he would have people believe.

If I read the evidence correctly he was given a responsibility to provide security at a car lot. His duties did not include fire fighting or administering first aid. He left the location he was assigned to and states he did so to fight a container fire, being in possession of  a fire extinguisher. He then went from there into the active scene of a demonstration or protest where persons of different views were taking advantage of free speech and gathering. He stated he was a Medic and was there to assist anyone needing attention. He became involved with people who were apparently of different opinion to he, there was conflict and people died a a result of shots from his weapon.

A Court case ensued and was televised, I have seen lots of Court procedures on television, the Judges conduct was the worst I can recall seeing, his actions gave some a feeling that he was advocating for the defence. A Jury considered the evidence and procedure, and passed a verdict of Not Guilty to all charges, he is a free man, and I accept that.

Where I now have difficulty is the political opportunitism by some, particularly Fox News to make this young man a poster boy for anti Democratic policies. I have sympathy for the young man because opportunists will now take advantage of his propensity to want to be a hero, and will use that to their own advantage. The whole thing is a sad experience for the United States, and their negative impression to many other countries.

 

 

[Sertse]

1 hour ago, Vlad Magic said:

Not strictly true without you specifying wether you are talking military ammunition or hunting ammunition.

 

It’s incorrect to state “a .223 round is designed to ricochet around the body”. Some are and some are not.

Military .223  REM or more commonly referred to as 5.56mm yes. It’s better to wound the guy you are shooting at because it takes 2 of his buddies to move him. At least that was the theory during war.

 

Hunting .223 REM are designed for maximum fragmentation. Specifically penetration first with a very hard ballistic tip then a lead core which fragments on impact to bone causing the round to break up into bits causing as much tissue and organ damage as possible thus killing the animal you are hunting.

 

“.223 REM are the exact same size as .22 round”

 

Again not strictly true. Yes they are the same diameter but that is the only similarity. I can’t be bothered going into rimfire, centerfire, magnum rimfire, etc etc etc however the number of variations in design, size (excluding diameter obviously) bullet weight, and application is vast. Really vast!!

 

Anyway I digress.

 

Americas constitutional laws regarding the right to bare arms is the problem. Always has been the problem and will continue to be the problem for years to come.

In reference to the .22 I'm talking about the actual bullet size not the round size. 

That is true though, .223 designed to fragment does exist. I was talking about standard no frills FMJ round though. I guess the issue arises when people use 5.56 and .223 interchangeably which I'm guilty of!

[Sertse]

1 hour ago, JackLadd said:

 

You are the one getting emotional and clearly a crank.

Nothing you've said has been technically correct regarding firearms. You seem obsessed with AR15's but know nothing about them.

Keep up with the ad hominem attacks though. 

[Sertse]

1 hour ago, JamesM48 said:

 

Pretty sure that photo was from when he was 12 years old, do you know he was 6'4? He also attacked George Zimmerman while trespassing through a gated community and smashed his head into the pavement repeatedly, while grabbing for his pistol?

[Sharpie]

9 minutes ago, Sertse said:

In reference to the .22 I'm talking about the actual bullet size not the round size. 

That is true though, .223 designed to fragment does exist. I was talking about standard no frills FMJ round though. I guess the issue arises when people use 5.56 and .223 interchangeably which I'm guilty of!

 

I have to say you are informed and up on firearms, it was not something I ever was really up on unless I had to deal with a matter involving one, is it too nosey to ask for some minor may it well be about your gleaning of knowledge. I am not a critic of your points just an interested observer.

[Tazio]

13 minutes ago, Sertse said:

Pretty sure that photo was from when he was 12 years old, do you know he was 6'4? He also attacked George Zimmerman while trespassing through a gated community and smashed his head into the pavement repeatedly, while grabbing for his pistol?

Point A nobody really knows what happened in the altercation. 
Point B he was 5’11” and just over 11 stone in the account from the local newspaper. 

[Sertse]

7 minutes ago, Sharpie said:

 

I have to say you are informed and up on firearms, it was not something I ever was really up on unless I had to deal with a matter involving one, is it too nosey to ask for some minor may it well be about your gleaning of knowledge. I am not a critic of your points just an interested observer.

I wanted to be a gunsmith a few years ago and was planning on joining the army as an armourer. Spent a lot of time reading online about the history and manufacturing of firearms. Ended up having a change of heart and fixing people instead of weapons and joined as a medic. Made friends with armourers since I joined and have carried on learning basically.

[Vlad Magic]

45 minutes ago, Sertse said:

In reference to the .22 I'm talking about the actual bullet size not the round size. 

That is true though, .223 designed to fragment does exist. I was talking about standard no frills FMJ round though. I guess the issue arises when people use 5.56 and .223 interchangeably which I'm guilty of!

A .22 bullet wether it be LR, WMR, Hornet is not the same size as a .223 REM bullet. It’s in the same caliber family but completely different in size and shape and characteristics. The Hornet and WMR for example are closest to .223 REM being supersonic. The LR being subsonic doesn’t have ballistic tip whereas Hornet and WMR do.

 

 

[JackLadd]

2 hours ago, Sertse said:

Nothing you've said has been technically correct regarding firearms. You seem obsessed with AR15's but know nothing about them.

Keep up with the ad hominem attacks though. 

 

You know zero about weapons or ballistics but keep coming back and to me and projecting. Kindly gtf. 

[Captain Sausage]

3 hours ago, Gizmo said:

The bit in bold is the only thing I agree with - he should never have had the responsibility of policing a potential riot zone with a gun when he was basically a kid. He's not trained how to police, how to diffuse confrontations or descalate a situation. He's a kid. His presence lead to the shootings and deaths. 

What a basket-case country but he'll now be elevated as a conservative, right-wing hero because he got to shoot the type of people they are also itching to shoot. Fits their "political narrative" after all, the same narrative that allows shooters to claim self-defense because they felt threatened by a kid in a hoody carrying a packet of skittles. 

The US should never have changed the law that stated self-defense only applies once you've tried to extricate yourself from the threatening situation.   

 

Could you advise on the bits of my previous post you disagree with please?

[JudyJudyJudy]

2 hours ago, Sertse said:

Pretty sure that photo was from when he was 12 years old, do you know he was 6'4? He also attacked George Zimmerman while trespassing through a gated community and smashed his head into the pavement repeatedly, while grabbing for his pistol?

Pretty sure your wrong

 

Trayvon Martin Photos | Snopes.com

 

 

Edited November 20, 2021 by JamesM48

[JudyJudyJudy]

2 hours ago, Tazio said:

Point A nobody really knows what happened in the altercation. 
Point B he was 5’11” and just over 11 stone in the account from the local newspaper. 

Correct 

[Sooperstar]

4 hours ago, JamesM48 said:

Quelle surprise 

I don't think that's a new video. Is this not something the prosecution tried to get into evidence but the judge said no?

[Des Lynam]

4 hours ago, JamesM48 said:

Quelle surprise 

Have you never said something in the comfort of friends at seventeen others might find horrendous? 
 

Anyway James I thought you were against stuff you’ve posted/said prior being brought up again? 
 

🙂

[Rocco_Jambo]

5 minutes ago, Sooperstar said:

I don't think that's a new video. Is this not something the prosecution tried to get into evidence but the judge said no?

It was well know prior to the trial.

 

But likely not deemed relevant to what actually happened on the night in the same way neither was the fact 2 of those shot were violent criminals with convictions for domestic abuse and molesting children.

[JudyJudyJudy]

15 minutes ago, Des Lynam said:

Have you never said something in the comfort of friends at seventeen others might find horrendous? 
 

Anyway James I thought you were against stuff you’ve posted/said prior being brought up again? 
 

🙂

That was 15 days before the incident . !  The other things you are alluded to are probably postings re the cricket thread?  Or are u on about that poster who shall not be named who regularly dredges up other historical postings ?   Its not comparable he murdered 2 people ive just waffled crap at times.  

[JudyJudyJudy]

18 minutes ago, Des Lynam said:

Have you never said something in the comfort of friends at seventeen others might find horrendous? 
 

Anyway James I thought you were against stuff you’ve posted/said prior being brought up again? 
 

🙂

and no at 17 i never discussed shooting N***** 

[Des Lynam]

8 minutes ago, Rocco_Jambo said:

It was well know prior to the trial.

 

But likely not deemed relevant to what actually happened on the night in the same way neither was the fact 2 of those shot were violent criminals with convictions for domestic abuse and molesting children.

If we’re judging Kyle post trial then Joseph Rosenbaum’s ten year sentence for molesting three kids surely has to be mentioned. 
 

Gaige’s friend posted on Facebook that after seeing him in hospital he had stated he wished he’d been quicker to shoot. 
 

 

[Rocco_Jambo]

3 minutes ago, Des Lynam said:

If we’re judging Kyle post trial then Joseph Rosenbaum’s ten year sentence for molesting three kids surely has to be mentioned. 
 

Gaige’s friend posted on Facebook that after seeing him in hospital he had stated he wished he’d been quicker to shoot. 
 

 

Absolutely. A lot of people are tying to suggest he should not have been there and he was out looking for trouble and therefore he was the one in the wrong.

 

That equally applies to the the violent criminals some who were carrying unlicensed firearms who were also out looking for trouble, shouldn’t have been there and would probably still be alive if they hadn’t started attacking people with guns.

[Sharpie]

Well at least he didn't have to walk home from Court, Fox news sent a car and done an interview with him.

[Felix Lighter]

4 minutes ago, Sharpie said:

Well at least he didn't have to walk home from Court, Fox news sent a car and done an interview with him.

 

Where as MSNBC sent a car to follow the jury.

[Sharpie]

7 minutes ago, Felix Lighter said:

 

Where as MSNBC sent a car to follow the jury.

 

I think they mentioned Oblivion.

[Jeffros Furios]

17 minutes ago, Sharpie said:

Well at least he didn't have to walk home from Court, Fox news sent a car and done an interview with him.

I see the interview is with Carlston Tucker ,, I suppose we should be grateful its not Hannity .

[Sharpie]

40 minutes ago, Rocco_Jambo said:

Absolutely. A lot of people are tying to suggest he should not have been there and he was out looking for trouble and therefore he was the one in the wrong.

 

That equally applies to the the violent criminals some who were carrying unlicensed firearms who were also out looking for trouble, shouldn’t have been there and would probably still be alive if they hadn’t started attacking people with guns.

 

I read all these things and I ponder my own experience. Of course in civilised Canada never had anything like that. But there were occasions  when we had  information about proposed demonstrations or protests that that may incur civilm disobedience, and or property damage. I would delegate a couple of men to deal with informants, get what information and intelligence as I could,  and the proceed to conceive a plan, manpower needs, and what laws may be contravened, and how these would be dealt with either by arrest or summons.  If possible a meeting would be arranged between organisers and my staff, an understanding developed about what would be allowed and what not, of course 100% agreement was unlikely,but a path to conversation had been developed. Basically the important thing seemed to be manpower,manpower, and more manpower. None of these things seemed to be present in the discussed incident. It would seem to me an old former leader but now just another old fart with the in my days rapport, that what had once seemed so simple has become an insurmountable problem.

[William H. Bonney]

57 minutes ago, Des Lynam said:

If we’re judging Kyle post trial then Joseph Rosenbaum’s ten year sentence for molesting three kids surely has to be mentioned. 
 

Gaige’s friend posted on Facebook that after seeing him in hospital he had stated he wished he’d been quicker to shoot. 
 

 

Rosenbaum was a piece of shit. A racist **** and a convicted paedophile. He was there looking for trouble. I doubt anyone seriously gives a shit about his death. 
Rittenhouse should still be in prison though. 

[Sharpie]

9 minutes ago, Jeffros Furios said:

I see the interview is with Carlston Tucker ,, I suppose we should be grateful its not Hannity .

 

Hannity is probably in the front seat holding their guns.

[AndyNic]

7 hours ago, hughesie27 said:

Well thats not an accurate caption.

 

What was happening there?

[Felix Lighter]

2 minutes ago, Sharpie said:

 

I think they mentioned Oblivion.

 

Sorry Boab, Oblivion?

While we're at it though, might I ask you, as a retired cop. The night in question, imagine the exact same scenario but replace Rittenhouse with a cop?

 

[Seymour M Hersh]

2 hours ago, JackLadd said:

 

You know zero about weapons or ballistics but keep coming back and to me and projecting. Kindly gtf. 

 

Stop digging ffs! 

[SuperstarSteve]

Zimmerman should have been found guilty in my opinion. 
 

Ignored police instructions when told not to follow the kid for no logical reason. 
 

If he listens to those orders. Nobody dies. 100% his fault.
 

 

[Seymour M Hersh]

28 minutes ago, William H. Bonney said:

Rosenbaum was a piece of shit. A racist **** and a convicted paedophile. He was there looking for trouble. I doubt anyone seriously gives a shit about his death. 
Rittenhouse should still be in prison though. 

 

He was a convicted kiddy fiddler. Sodomised at least one of the five young boys between the ages of 9 and 11 that he abused. However I doubt rittenhouse knew anything about that on the night. 

[Seymour M Hersh]

42 minutes ago, Jeffros Furios said:

I see the interview is with Carlston Tucker ,, I suppose we should be grateful its not Hannity .

 

I don't think he should be doing any interviews but I suppose he has legal bills to pay.

[Tazio]

5 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

I don't think he should be doing any interviews but I suppose he has legal bills to pay.

I’m confident he has no legal bills to pay. Someone will have been picking those up for him. 

[Felix Lighter]

1 minute ago, SuperstarSteve said:

Zimmerman should have been found guilty in my opinion. 
 

Ignored police instructions when told not to follow the kid for no logical reason. 
 

If he listens to those orders. Nobody dies. 100% his fault.
 

 

 

The Court calls Boab Dylan to the stand.

[Seymour M Hersh]

Just now, Tazio said:

I’m confident he has no legal bills to pay. Someone will have been picking those up for him. 

 

Aye you're probably right. Even more reason to not do any interviews. 

[Felix Lighter]

17 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

He was a convicted kiddy fiddler. Sodomised at least one of the five young boys between the ages of 9 and 11 that he abused. However I doubt rittenhouse knew anything about that on the night. 

 

Also rape. If there was anyone who should not have been there that night it was Rosenbaum. 

 

[Des Lynam]

1 hour ago, Sharpie said:

Well at least he didn't have to walk home from Court, Fox news sent a car and done an interview with him.

 

As someone who normally watches left leaning American news i'm pretty fed up with most of them now after the trial. I was watching CNN post trial and they mentioned Jacob Blakes murder, Kyle illegally taking the gun across state lines, executing two people etc. It was quite clear those commentating had never watched the trial. 

[Sharpie]

59 minutes ago, Felix Lighter said:

 

Sorry Boab, Oblivion?

While we're at it though, might I ask you, as a retired cop. The night in question, imagine the exact same scenario but replace Rittenhouse with a cop?

 

 When I wrote oblivion I seem to recall I thought it was funny, now I cannot remember why.

 

I am sorry but I cannot under any circumstance  see a cop putting himself in the circumstances Rittenhouse did.. In the kid we are discussing someone who I believe has what can be a harmless mental condition, but in his case has proven his desire to be someone  and  to  be noticed.  A cop with again my uneducated guesses as to his mental condition is unlikely to get through the employment screening.  I cannot even imagine a cop getting himself in that predicament.

[Sharpie]

6 minutes ago, Des Lynam said:

 

As someone who normally watches left leaning American news i'm pretty fed up with most of them now after the trial. I was watching CNN post trial and they mentioned Jacob Blakes murder, Kyle illegally taking the gun across state lines, executing two people etc. It was quite clear those commentating had never watched the trial. 

 

I mention Fox specifically and did so because as I do during Saturday breakfast was watching the news. I saw Rittenhouse in the back of  what would seem to be a pretty large car, I did not see and still do not know who was in the car with him. At the conclusion it was stated that Fox had provided the vehicle and reporter. I was not surprised as particularly Hannity has been very supportive of the boy, and it is his right to do so. To me it is another example of the crumbling of the U.S. news media, they are allowing their political bent to influence all their stories. This whole episode has lost entirely any resemblance to a Trial for an incident involving loss of lives, and a young naive eighteen year old. It is a travesty of news reporting and is not such it is political propaganda.

[Des Lynam]

10 minutes ago, Sharpie said:

 

I mention Fox specifically and did so because as I do during Saturday breakfast was watching the news. I saw Rittenhouse in the back of  what would seem to be a pretty large car, I did not see and still do not know who was in the car with him. At the conclusion it was stated that Fox had provided the vehicle and reporter. I was not surprised as particularly Hannity has been very supportive of the boy, and it is his right to do so. To me it is another example of the crumbling of the U.S. news media, they are allowing their political bent to influence all their stories. This whole episode has lost entirely any resemblance to a Trial for an incident involving loss of lives, and a young naive eighteen year old. It is a travesty of news reporting and is not such it is political propaganda.

 

Could not agree more Bob. I don't think it's always been like this. Sean Hannity makes me hope God is real so he'll have to answer for the shit he says. Apparently it's all just an on screen persona and he's not really like that. All done for the pay check. 

[hughesie27]

1 hour ago, AndyNic said:

 

What was happening there?

I watched the verdicts come in live. Thats not how they were positioned. I have no idea what they are doing in the photo.