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John souttar


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Seymour M Hersh

His agent will make sure he doesn't extend with us as that wouldn't maximise his fee (the agents). Obviously given we've stuck with through two potentially career ending injuries I feel he owes it to the club to maximise his sale by extending his contract. If he stays fit and continues to improve any financial loss from a bigger (free agent) signing fee will be erased with the massive earning potential down south. Sadly though his agent won't be thinking like that. 

Edited by Seymour M Hersh
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Pasquale for King
7 hours ago, JimmyCant said:

How can Moore be away in January?

 

Edit. I’ve just seen that BC have a recall clause in January right enough. Unlikely they will recall him but it appears they could 

Yeah all cross border loans have that break option. 

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Pasquale for King
48 minutes ago, innerjambo said:

I know it's going back a while, but did Hibs not get quite good transfer fees for Brown, Whittaker and Thomson?

They got £2.5m for Whitaker, £2m for Thomson and Strachan bought Brown for £4.4m which turned out to be exactly how much they needed to buy East Mains funnily enough 🤔🤷🏾‍♂️?

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Broxburn Jambo
1 hour ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

As a fan I agree, but " push the boat out" means nothing tbh.

 

It's like "get into them" or "attack them", it's a saying but has little substance.

 

We could be offering Souttar £10k a week but if Blackburn are offering £25k a week we are ****ed, no amount of boat pushing matters.

 

We also have folk saying shorter deals are better so we don't get stuck with folk if the don't work out.

Some folk iirc on here were even saying that they wouldn't be bothered if Souttar left or he was a big risk when he was injured.

There is no one rule for our  club or any club that will work.

 

Players leave far bigger clubs, for example Messi, Ramsey and  Pogba situation atm.

If These clubs can't help it , what chance do Hearts have?

 

Player has all the power.

 

Excellent reading of the situation, Bosman turned everything on it's head, pervious to Bosman the player just stopped playing if he wanted away example a certain W Wallace when Celtic came calling

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18 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

They got £2.5m for Whitaker, £2m for Thomson and Strachan bought Brown for £4.4m which turned out to be exactly how much they needed to buy East Mains funnily enough 🤔🤷🏾‍♂️?

 

Haha, all that money for a poxy field. Maybe Strachan had shares? 🤣 

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Bazzas right boot
17 minutes ago, Broxburn Jambo said:

Excellent reading of the situation, Bosman turned everything on it's head, pervious to Bosman the player just stopped playing if he wanted away example a certain W Wallace when Celtic came calling

 

yip.

 

pretty much sums it up.

 

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Pasquale for King
1 hour ago, innerjambo said:

 

Haha, all that money for a poxy field. Maybe Strachan had shares? 🤣 

Helping out his boyhood heroes 🤮

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Pasquale for King

I don’t think the club can be criticised in this instance, if we had offered a deal before he had regained some semblance of fitness and he broke down again they would’ve been slated. We’ve done what we can and if he doesn’t want to resign there’s not much else the club can do. 

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A deal could be structured with highest earner being offered, and if he is still with us and plays a certain amount of games he gets a wage increase. 

 

Probably in the players interests to run his contract down, I've heard Leeds will make a bid for him in January. 

 

 

They are also interested in Nathan Patterson. 

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15 hours ago, Getintaethem said:

Looks like it’s championship clubs that are showing interest.  Tough decision for him.  I always think it’s a massive gamble for any players and can’t really think of any who have left Hearts and it’s really paid off.  
 

  Financially he’d no doubt be better off, he’s only likely to get around £5k a week from Hearts, he’d probably treble that in the championship.  However, if you look at guys like Paterson, Berra and others that have gone down there, what have they won?  You’re basically giving up the chance of silverware and European football.  I’m not sure it helps players international career, his brother Harry for instance is never quoted for Scotland despite allegedly playing at a higher level.

 

  Looks like his heart is set on a move though.  Money talks.

Messi's never quoted for Scotland, WTF has he been thinking playing for Barca then PSG?

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9 hours ago, Paulp74 said:

Was offering a large contract not what we did with Gordon and got £9m for him a year or so later? 

 

Would make sense to do this for Souttar. Means we get him for the rest of the season and potentially £4m or so for him in the summer or beyond. Even £15k is £750k a year so we would easy get our cash back and more. Getting into the Scotland team and Hearts having a good season would only do his profile good. 

£15k is £780k a year before adding on other costs such as employer NI, etc. Total cost probably in the region of £900k per year. 

 

We would easily get our cash back and more? Would we? What if he gets another bad injury before a sale? Buying interest would instantly disappear and we're left with a player on massive (for us) wages on a long term deal that's contributing nothing.  Andy Driver all over again. 

 

Also, put him on those wages and everyone else wants similar. All our other out of contract players that we want to keep hold of will be asking for huge pay rises or they're off. Everyone else we try to bring in will also start demanding similar wages.  As for Craig Gordon first time around, yes we put him on a huge deal and got a fantastic fee in return, but we had loads of other players on huge deals too, and didn't get big fees for many of them.  We were losing money hand over fist and only keeping afloat because Romanov was subsidising everything, despite the Gordon fee. As soon as his other business interests ran into trouble, we were Donald Ducked.

 

You're living in fantasy land if you think we can give a player the sort of deal you're suggesting. 

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12 minutes ago, FarmerTweedy said:

£15k is £780k a year before adding on other costs such as employer NI, etc. Total cost probably in the region of £900k per year. 

 

We would easily get our cash back and more? Would we? What if he gets another bad injury before a sale? Buying interest would instantly disappear and we're left with a player on massive (for us) wages on a long term deal that's contributing nothing.  Andy Driver all over again. 

 

Also, put him on those wages and everyone else wants similar. All our other out of contract players that we want to keep hold of will be asking for huge pay rises or they're off. Everyone else we try to bring in will also start demanding similar wages.  As for Craig Gordon first time around, yes we put him on a huge deal and got a fantastic fee in return, but we had loads of other players on huge deals too, and didn't get big fees for many of them.  We were losing money hand over fist and only keeping afloat because Romanov was subsidising everything, despite the Gordon fee. As soon as his other business interests ran into trouble, we were Donald Ducked.

 

You're living in fantasy land if you think we can give a player the sort of deal you're suggesting. 

We gave Gordon a similar deal! 

 

It's not fantasy land - its basic mathematics! We pay out even the £900k you're talking about but get 4 times that as a transfer fee. Gordon was apparently on £18k a week/£1m a year but we received £9m. 

 

Clubs have income protection plans in place so if he gets injured, they pay his wages. 

 

You speculate to accumulate and its a no brainer for me. Plus we get the benefit of him for this season 

Edited by Paulp74
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I think he will be away in January. Even if the fee isn’t great then put it towards a replacement even in the summer.

moore looks more than capable for cover

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Think it's a done deal unfortunately.  Not the end of the world though. Use whatever we get to sign Moore ( in his last year at Bristol I believe) Smith into CB and young Logan as back up RB. Its the Cochrane, Woodburn probable losses next season that worry me.

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6 hours ago, FarmerTweedy said:

Messi's never quoted for Scotland, WTF has he been thinking playing for Barca then PSG?


I’m not really sure of the relevance of this point.  Messi wasn’t born in Laurencekirk.  Messi was Finnish.

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Bazzas right boot
5 hours ago, Paulp74 said:

We gave Gordon a similar deal! 

 

It's not fantasy land - its basic mathematics! We pay out even the £900k you're talking about but get 4 times that as a transfer fee. Gordon was apparently on £18k a week/£1m a year but we received £9m. 

 

Clubs have income protection plans in place so if he gets injured, they pay his wages. 

 

You speculate to accumulate and its a no brainer for me. Plus we get the benefit of him for this season 

 

 

At that time iirc guys like Pressly and Hartley also got big pay rises not to mention the money some of our our stars where on.( rudi, Edgar, Fysass- Al on big wages. 

 

If you give Souttar £18k a week then Beni, Devlin, McKay, Kingsley etc want that. 

Then guys like Woodburn, Cochrane, Moore are thinking if you want me to stay then offer me like for like. 

 

You really just can't go about and give one player double the others. 

 

It will at best piss everyone off and have them  hating Souttar at worse have a raft of players speaking to their agents and wanting to leave. 

 

Either way the harmony of the team gets trashed. 

 

It's not football manager. 

 

 

 

 

 

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Just now, Getintaethem said:


I’m not really sure of the relevance of this point.  Messi wasn’t born in Laurencekirk.  Messi was Finnish.

Messis no finished ffs

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Byyy The Light
6 hours ago, Paulp74 said:

We gave Gordon a similar deal! 

 

It's not fantasy land - its basic mathematics! We pay out even the £900k you're talking about but get 4 times that as a transfer fee. Gordon was apparently on £18k a week/£1m a year but we received £9m. 

 

Clubs have income protection plans in place so if he gets injured, they pay his wages. 

 

You speculate to accumulate and its a no brainer for me. Plus we get the benefit of him for this season 


It’s complete fantasy land. That’s not how things work in the real world. 

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Jean Louis Valois

It was always going to be a matter of time before Souttar moved on, would have been gone years ago if he hadn't had the bad injuries. It will just be really frustrating to again miss out on a large fee for one of our best players, tricky one though considering hes only been back playing for a few months. What was the club supposed to do, especially with all the uncertainty of the past 18 months.

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kingantti1874
3 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

 

At that time iirc guys like Pressly and Hartley also got big pay rises not to mention the money some of our our stars where on.( rudi, Edgar, Fysass- Al on big wages. 

 

If you give Souttar £18k a week then Beni, Devlin, McKay, Kingsley etc want that. 

Then guys like Woodburn, Cochrane, Moore are thinking if you want me to stay then offer me like for like. 

 

You really just can't go about and give one player double the others. 

 

It will at best piss everyone off and have them  hating Souttar at worse have a raft of players speaking to their agents and wanting to leave. 

 

Either way the harmony of the team gets trashed. 

 

It's not football manager. 

 

 

 

 

 


Why? It happens at every football club in the world.  You give Souttar a big contract then sell him for £££££££

 

you then can invest that money - buy new players and give other players bigger contracts and then sell them for £££££££

 

Ithis is the way you build the club, this is the way you build every business in fact ! You  Invest in the right people(assets) at the right time with a view to monetising those assets.

 

If we don’t invest our best assets will be pillaged for next to nothing and we  will be stuck in a spin of mediocrity 

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kingantti1874
1 minute ago, Byyy The Light said:


It’s complete fantasy land. That’s not how things work in the real world. 


that couldn’t be more wrong. That’s exactly how it works for every business which aims to succeed

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Byyy The Light
4 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:


that couldn’t be more wrong. That’s exactly how it works for every business which aims to succeed


Not at football clubs like Hearts

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Fozzyonthefence
3 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:


Why? It happens at every football club in the world.  You give Souttar a big contract then sell him for £££££££

 

you then can invest that money - buy new players and give other players bigger contracts and then sell them for £££££££

 

Ithis is the way you build the club, this is the way you build every business in fact ! You  Invest in the right people(assets) at the right time with a view to monetising those assets.

 

If we don’t invest our best assets will be pillaged for next to nothing and we  will be stuck in a spin of mediocrity 


That’s not how it works!  What happens when no clubs want to pay £9m for them?  How many players have we even sold for more than £2m in our history? I think Gordon might be the only one?

 

You can’t run a business like that.  Romanov did and it ended up in administration.  Let’s not be like that again.

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Bazzas right boot
5 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:


Why? It happens at every football club in the world.  You give Souttar a big contract then sell him for £££££££

 

you then can invest that money - buy new players and give other players bigger contracts and then sell them for £££££££

 

Ithis is the way you build the club, this is the way you build every business in fact ! You  Invest in the right people(assets) at the right time with a view to monetising those assets.

 

If we don’t invest our best assets will be pillaged for next to nothing and we  will be stuck in a spin of mediocrity 

 

I explained why. 

 

It's also not how you build your club long term. 

 

No point in keeping Souttar if we lose Woodburn, Moore, Beni, Devlin etc as they all go in the huff and want to leave or don't sign as they want the same money. 

 

Exact opposite of building a club. 

 

What's the limit, £10, 20,30k?

 

Do we give all players that, if we do we'll end up in massive debt. 

 

We offer what we can afford. 

It's really that simple, unfortunately clubs like Stoke will double it. 

 

 

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Byyy The Light
1 minute ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

I explained why. 

 

It's also not how you build your club long term. 

 

No point in keeping Souttar if we lose Woodburn, Moore, Beni, Devlin etc as they all go in the huff and want to leave or don't sign as they want the same money. 

 

Exact opposite of building a club. 

 

What's the limit, £10, 20,30k?

 

Do we give all players that, if we do we'll end up in massive debt. 

 

We offer what we can afford. 

It's really that simple, unfortunately clubs like Stoke will double it. 

 

 


Exactly. Next target level is £7-8k a week for us. Takes us in to the next calibre bracket.

 

 

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11 hours ago, Pasquale for King said:

They got £2.5m for Whitaker, £2m for Thomson and Strachan bought Brown for £4.4m which turned out to be exactly how much they needed to buy East Mains funnily enough 🤔🤷🏾‍♂️?

 

£4 million for Steven Fletcher too.

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He wasn't needed by Scotland last night. Hendry and Cooper did well. Actually the way the game went it might have been too hard a game for him coming in again. 

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Bazzas right boot
19 minutes ago, Byyy The Light said:


Exactly. Next target level is £7-8k a week for us. Takes us in to the next calibre bracket.

 

 

 

Tbh I think we are about there atm. 

 

Guys, like Beni, Gordon, Boyce, McKay will be on about that if not a little more imo. 

 

 

But when mediocre championship clubs can offer £20-£30k it's a busted flush. 😪

 

Absolute shite. 

 

 

Edited by Smith's right boot
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Bazzas right boot
12 minutes ago, Rick Sanchez said:

If he injures himself again before signing any contract I would hope we would release him.

 

Why would you hope we release him? 

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kingantti1874
31 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

I explained why. 

 

It's also not how you build your club long term. 

 

No point in keeping Souttar if we lose Woodburn, Moore, Beni, Devlin etc as they all go in the huff and want to leave or don't sign as they want the same money. 

 

Exact opposite of building a club. 

 

What's the limit, £10, 20,30k?

 

Do we give all players that, if we do we'll end up in massive debt. 

 

We offer what we can afford. 

It's really that simple, unfortunately clubs like Stoke will double it. 

 

 


you didn’t explain it very well and this aside and your logic is fundamentally wrong.  We won’t end up in debt if we invest in the right players, and those assets generate a return
 

Maybe the limit now is £10k, and we secure fees commensurate with £10k per week players to reinvest in the squad .. in 5 years time, if we have managed it well  maybe it’s £15k

 

got to speculate to accumulate.  This is exactly the business model celtic have adopted for the last decade or so and it’s generate huge returns 

 

 

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10 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

Why would you hope we release him? 

 

Would you give him a bumper contract if he's out long term again? I'd imagine it's in the back of our minds in the deal we've offered.

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Byyy The Light
12 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

Tbh I think we are about there atm. 

 

Guys, like Beni, Gordon, Boyce, McKay will be on about that if not a little more imo. 

 

 

But when mediocre championship clubs can offer £20-£30k it's a busted flush. 😪

 

Absolute shite. 

 

 


Aye.

 

They can’t signed everyone though so if we can be at the front of the queue for the likes of Beni/Cochrane/Moore then we’ll get them ahead of Hibs and Aberdeen.

 

Then we can set about challenging. 

 

 

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kingantti1874
13 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

Tbh I think we are about there atm. 

 

Guys, like Beni, Gordon, Boyce, McKay will be on about that if not a little more imo. 

 

 

But when mediocre championship clubs can offer £20-£30k it's a busted flush. 😪

 

Absolute shite. 

 

 

 
Right so we should just pay a max £2/3 k per week forever.  “Hope” to uncover more Souttars, benny’s and Devlin’s and have a brief period of success then other clubs come along and pinch them for buttons.. 

 

Sounds like an ambitious strategy for growth! Have you offered your services to Jeff Bezos 😂

 

only one person talking shite here.. clueless / gutless in equal measure

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Byyy The Light
2 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:


you didn’t explain it very well and this aside and your logic is fundamentally wrong.  We won’t end up in debt if we invest in the right players, and those assets generate a return
 

Maybe the limit now is £10k, and we secure fees commensurate with £10k per week players to reinvest in the squad .. in 5 years time, if we have managed it well  maybe it’s £15k

 

got to speculate to accumulate.  This is exactly the business model celtic have adopted for the last decade or so and it’s generate huge returns 

 

 


Your plan fails when a player like Souttar comes along, gets injured and walks for nothing. The club are not in control. You are also completely ignoring the point about the rest of the squad.

 

It’s too simplistic and if it was easy and straight forward as you point out everyone would be doing it.

 

Your Celtic point is miles off the mark too as they operate on a different level, have Champions league as a carrot and don’t have to worry about the likes of Stoke tripling a players wages. 

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6 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

Why would Souttar accept £15,000 per week at Hearts when he can get £25,000 in the Championship then £60,000 in the Premiership. 

£15K a week? At Hearts? You tripping?

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Jack Torrance

If he's offered a great deal down south or anywhere else, he has to go. He could sign with us for another few months to help us get top dollar, then get injured and miss the chance. He has to be thinking with his head, not his heart. A shame for us and I'll be gutted to see him go but he'll always be welcome back, especially if we go on to do serious damage this season; and someone else will come in a do a (hopefully decent) job for us

 

Unless of course he comes back and beats his chest or something, for one of the uglies. Then he can gtf.

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2 minutes ago, Pans Jambo said:

£15K a week? At Hearts? You tripping?

 

What some posters say we should offer to keep him. Its them tripping. 

 

My point is it doesn't change anything for Souttar.

Edited by Mikey1874
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kingantti1874
3 minutes ago, Byyy The Light said:


Your plan fails when a player like Souttar comes along, gets injured and walks for nothing. The club are not in control. You are also completely ignoring the point about the rest of the squad.

 

It’s too simplistic and if it was easy and straight forward as you point out everyone would be doing it.

 

Your Celtic point is miles off the mark too as they operate on a different level, have Champions league as a carrot and don’t have to worry about the likes of Stoke tripling a players wages. 


It won’t  fail as a strategy if you invest in the right players and the right assets.. it needs to be done with certainty and confidence and only with player who merit it.
 

Of course - like every business some investments some will still not work out.. but it’s the clubs job to maximise the successes and minimise the failures.. 

 

not all clubs do it no, they also lack confidence and ambition.  The successful clubs however do.

 

Just as an example we could give Souttar, Beni and Devlin £10k per week contracts.. if they accepted and I’m sure they would it would cost circa £1.5m a year.. but I’m also certain we’d would be able to recoup well in excess of £10m for those 3 players.. 

 

 

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1 minute ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

What some posters say we should offer to keep him. Its them tripping. 

 

My point is it doesn't change anything for Souttar.

Fair enough. Has anyone ever been on £15k/week at hearts? Even during the batshit Vlad era? Doubt it. 

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kingantti1874
1 minute ago, Pans Jambo said:

Fair enough. Has anyone ever been on £15k/week at hearts? Even during the batshit Vlad era? Doubt it. 

Craig Gordon was on more than that 

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1 minute ago, kingantti1874 said:

Craig Gordon was on more than that 

Really? More than £60k a month? 
Not saying youre wrong just sounds far fetched to me. 

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Bazzas right boot
19 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

 
Right so we should just pay a max £2/3 k per week forever.  “Hope” to uncover more Souttars, benny’s and Devlin’s and have a brief period of success then other clubs come along and pinch them for buttons.. 

 

Sounds like an ambitious strategy for growth! Have you offered your services to Jeff Bezos 😂

 

only one person talking shite here.. clueless / gutless in equal measure

 

 

Nope, no one said that. 

 

**** knows what your last rants are about. 

Clearly a logical counter argument has triggered you. 

 

Gather yourself and stay on point or you will risk becoming a slavering mess. 

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