***Official Aberdeen FC Vs Heart of Midlothian FC Match Thread ***

[IveSeenTheLight]

38 minutes ago, Hearts1975 said:

Your keeper should have been sent off the park at the penalty (by the rules of the game) 

By the rules of the game, it’s not a sending off.

 

38 minutes ago, Hearts1975 said:

The second goal, from the corner, where Broony pushed your own player right into Beni’s path was blatant obstruction and that was an even bigger f… up from the referee 

Fair play, can’t defend that.

Its one of those that you love if it goes for you and hate if it goes against you.

[Bazzas right boot]

7 hours ago, davemclaren said:

The other 9 teams are told to pass it back the way. Fine margins. 

 

Apparently so. 

 

 

[OTT]

37 minutes ago, IveSeenTheLight said:

By the rules of the game, it’s not a sending off.

 

Fair play, can’t defend that.

Its one of those that you love if it goes for you and hate if it goes against you.

 

I think the big frustration in Scottish football is these 'mistakes' happen constantly for everyone bar the OF (as you learned last week ). 

 

Its beyond a joke how pish our officials are and I'd like to see Hearts, Aberdeen and Hibs especially (although all non-OF sides would be welcome) to start pushing harder for more parity in refereeing selection. The last Edinburgh FIFA ref was Callum Murray and he retired in 2013. You're a dons fan, when was the last FIFA list referee from Aberdeen? Because we currently have 5 all from Glasgow/Renfrewshire and Lanarkshire and we wonder why we get zilch when we go through there. 

 

My view is that we can't prove Beaton/ Madden/ Collum etc are biased individually, but we could prove the way referees are selected is by looking at how many 'graduate' their local refereeing association to go on and become grade 1/FIFA listed. I genuinely think the stats will be horrifying. I think Levein when he lost the rag a couple seasons back was pointing out that there has only been 1 Edinburgh referee appointed to the Scottish cup final in over 100 years... Edinburgh is the 2nd largest population centre in Scotland, so if anyone has a background is stats/maths I'd love to hear the probability of that/ it be justified  

[Hearts1975]

43 minutes ago, IveSeenTheLight said:

By the rules of the game, it’s not a sending off.

 

Fair play, can’t defend that.

Its one of those that you love if it goes for you and hate if it goes against you.

It was most definitely a sending off. You had no defenders between our man, and the goal, and the keeper took him down. Clear goal scoring opportunity stopped 

 

Your 2 defenders ran past the keeper but the keeper had already downed our player at that point so they wouldn’t have stopped the goal 

 

By the laws of the game that’s a sending off. 
 

The referee had a mare full stop.

 

I reckon that the only reason that there isn’t being more said about it is that we didn’t deserve anything from the performance. That said, you have to trust that the ref will get the big decisions right 

 

If that’s a referee on the continent, the 2nd half starts, your down to 10 men and we are a goal up. 

[Hearts1975]

52 minutes ago, IveSeenTheLight said:

By the rules of the game, it’s not a sending off.

 

Fair play, can’t defend that.

Its one of those that you love if it goes for you and hate if it goes against you.

I’m not saying that you didn’t deserve the win in terms of the 2nd half, but you got the win with the referee’s help. You were by far the better side but we weren’t at the races at all 

[Hearts1975]

13 minutes ago, OTT said:

 

I think the big frustration in Scottish football is these 'mistakes' happen constantly for everyone bar the OF (as you learned last week ). 

 

Its beyond a joke how pish our officials are and I'd like to see Hearts, Aberdeen and Hibs especially (although all non-OF sides would be welcome) to start pushing harder for more parity in refereeing selection. The last Edinburgh FIFA ref was Callum Murray and he retired in 2013. You're a dons fan, when was the last FIFA list referee from Aberdeen? Because we currently have 5 all from Glasgow/Renfrewshire and Lanarkshire and we wonder why we get zilch when we go through there. 

 

My view is that we can't prove Beaton/ Madden/ Collum etc are biased individually, but we could prove the way referees are selected is by looking at how many 'graduate' their local refereeing association to go on and become grade 1/FIFA listed. I genuinely think the stats will be horrifying. I think Levein when he lost the rag a couple seasons back was pointing out that there has only been 1 Edinburgh referee appointed to the Scottish cup final in over 100 years... Edinburgh is the 2nd largest population centre in Scotland, so if anyone has a background is stats/maths I'd love to hear the probability of that/ it be justified  

You make a lot of good points OTT especially around the ref selection process. For me, the only way that it will change is when the referees are held to account over their decision making like the rest of us in our daily work lives 

 

They seem to get it pretty easy, and they get paid for what they do therefore they should be subject to the same scrutiny in terms of how they perform 

 

Some stats in terms of key refereeing decisions through each game would be welcome, considering we have stats on the go for everyone else, including the players 

[A_A wehatethehibs]

17 minutes ago, IveSeenTheLight said:

By the rules of the game, it’s not a sending off.

 

Fair play, can’t defend that.

Its one of those that you love if it goes for you and hate if it goes against you.

No it isn’t, it’s one of those where once the dust has settled everyone agrees. Get VAR in and get incorrect refereeing decisions like that eradicated from the game. Back in the day folk would use examples like the 2 decisions that have decided your last 2 games as evidence of the old wives tale that  “decisions evens themselves out” shite because you dropped points there but this time you were the beneficiary. Fact is when a referee affects the outcome of a game wrongfully it is shite win lose or draw 👎 

[IveSeenTheLight]

48 minutes ago, Hearts1975 said:

It was most definitely a sending off. You had no defenders between our man, and the goal, and the keeper took him down. Clear goal scoring opportunity stopped 

 

Your 2 defenders ran past the keeper but the keeper had already downed our player at that point so they wouldn’t have stopped the goal 

 

By the laws of the game that’s a sending off. 
 

The referee had a mare full stop.

 

I reckon that the only reason that there isn’t being more said about it is that we didn’t deserve anything from the performance. That said, you have to trust that the ref will get the big decisions right 

 

If that’s a referee on the continent, the 2nd half starts, your down to 10 men and we are a goal up. 

 

I would recommend you update yourself on the rules of the game

[Hearts1975]

25 minutes ago, IveSeenTheLight said:

 

I would recommend you update yourself on the rules of the game

Well how about you give your reasoning for it being a yellow, rather than saying nothing but making out that you understand the “rules of the game” . It’s blatantly obvious to me that you don’t. 

[IveSeenTheLight]

19 minutes ago, Hearts1975 said:

Well how about you give your reasoning for it being a yellow, rather than saying nothing but making out that you understand the “rules of the game” . It’s blatantly obvious to me that you don’t. 

 

In accordance with the updated rule applied 5 years ago

 

Here, have a read.

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/36047575

[IveSeenTheLight]

DENYING A GOAL OR AN OBVIOUS GOAL-SCORING OPPORTUNITY

Where a player denies the opposing team a goal or an obvious goal-scoring opportunity by a handball offence the player is sent off wherever the offence occurs.

Where a player commits an offence against an opponent within their own penalty area which denies an opponent an obvious goal-scoring opportunity and the referee awards a penalty kick, the offending player is cautioned if the offence was an attempt to play the ball; in all other circumstances (e.g. holding, pulling, pushing, no possibility to play the ball etc.) the offending player must be sent off.

[Hearts1975]

3 minutes ago, IveSeenTheLight said:

 

In accordance with the updated rule applied 5 years ago

 

Here, have a read.

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/36047575

Aye, your keeper took down our player accidentally. 
 

get a grip ffs 

[IveSeenTheLight]

Just now, Hearts1975 said:

Aye, your keeper took down our player accidentally. 
 

get a grip ffs 

 

So you're now claiming that Lewis made no attempt to play the ball

[Hearts1975]

Just now, IveSeenTheLight said:

DENYING A GOAL OR AN OBVIOUS GOAL-SCORING OPPORTUNITY

Where a player denies the opposing team a goal or an obvious goal-scoring opportunity by a handball offence the player is sent off wherever the offence occurs.

Where a player commits an offence against an opponent within their own penalty area which denies an opponent an obvious goal-scoring opportunity and the referee awards a penalty kick, the offending player is cautioned if the offence was an attempt to play the ball; in all other circumstances (e.g. holding, pulling, pushing, no possibility to play the ball etc.) the offending player must be sent off.

Your keeper knew exactly what he was doing. He could have pulled out but didn’t.
 

That’s the point you are completely missing. 

[Hearts1975]

Just now, IveSeenTheLight said:

 

So you're now claiming that Lewis made no attempt to play the ball

I am claiming that Lewis knew the player had him and he took him down rather than pulling his hand back. Yes, absolutely. 

[IveSeenTheLight]

Just now, Hearts1975 said:

Your keeper knew exactly what he was doing. He could have pulled out but didn’t.
 

That’s the point you are completely missing. 

 

Ok, I think we are done here.

 

It was a pen, Lewis tried to play the ball, Rule 12 was changed in 2016 to stop a triple jeopardy of being awarded the pen, sending off and suspension

[IveSeenTheLight]

1 minute ago, Hearts1975 said:

I am claiming that Lewis knew the player had him and he took him down rather than pulling his hand back. Yes, absolutely. 

 

If he pulled his hand back, then he would not have been trying to play the ball and as such the rule would have been a sending off.

 

I've clarified why in my opinion the ref correctly only cautioned Lewis. Its ok if we have differing opinions on it.

[Hearts1975]

Just now, IveSeenTheLight said:

 

If he pulled his hand back, then he would not have been trying to play the ball and as such the rule would have been a sending off.

 

I've clarified why in my opinion the ref correctly only cautioned Lewis. Its ok if we have differing opinions on it.

If you watch it again our player shields the ball and puts his body in front of the ball.

 

Lewis comes crashing through him knowing full well he is going to HAVE to take the player down to get to the ball and without playing the ball. 
 

Go and watch it again. It’s a deliberate premeditated attempt to stop him scoring as he could not have touched the ball first as it was shielded from him. 

[Hearts1975]

14 minutes ago, IveSeenTheLight said:

 

Ok, I think we are done here.

 

It was a pen, Lewis tried to play the ball, Rule 12 was changed in 2016 to stop a triple jeopardy of being awarded the pen, sending off and suspension

Your keeper had a clear unobstructed view of what was in front of him and at the time it happened. So did the Ref. 
 

That included the keeper being able to see clearly that there was no way he could have got his hands to the ball without contacting our player first 

 

Yet he still committed and by doing so, he took him out way before his hands even touched the ball 

 

I agree that we are pretty much done here. 

[IveSeenTheLight]

1 minute ago, Hearts1975 said:

Your keeper had a clear unobstructed view of what was in front of him and at the time it happened. So did the Ref. 
 

That included the keeper being able to see clearly that there was no way he could have got his hands to the ball without contacting our player first 

 

Yet he still committed and by doing so, he took him out way before his hands even touched the ball 

 

I agree that we are pretty much done here. 

 

If he got his hands on the ball, it wouldn't have been a foul. The fact he didn't meant it was a pen.

Correct decision in my opinion, but feel free to continue to disagree

[Hearts1975]

3 minutes ago, IveSeenTheLight said:

 

If he got his hands on the ball, it wouldn't have been a foul. The fact he didn't meant it was a pen.

Correct decision in my opinion, but feel free to continue to disagree

I thought you understood the rules of the game ?
 

You need to take the ball first in order to not commit a foul. This is t something new. 

 

Keepers also need to take the ball first in order for it not to be a foul 

 

Lewis came out and took the player right out and would have known he couldn’t have touched the ball before clattering the player as the ball was behind the player 
 

Premeditated decision making to prevent the goal scoring opportunity means that it is deliberate 

 

The rule change meant a deliberate foul would result in a red card and an accidental foul wouldn’t - penalty regardless 

 

He should have been sent packing and you are still making out that he was trying to play the ball when it’s blatantly obvious he knew perfectly well what he was doing, in advance of doing it 

[IveSeenTheLight]

3 minutes ago, Hearts1975 said:

I thought you understood the rules of the game ?

 

Clearly I do and you don't.

 

This has taken up enough of the conversation and its clear that neither of us is able to persuade each other to change their opinion of the rule and how it is interpreted

[Hearts1975]

1 minute ago, IveSeenTheLight said:

 

Clearly I do and you don't.

 

This has taken up enough of the conversation and its clear that neither of us is able to persuade each other to change their opinion of the rule and how it is interpreted

I just can’t understand how you see it like that when there was no way on planet earth that your keeper could have touched the ball, without cementing our player, first. That’s the fundamental difference between an accident and a deliberate ploy to stop him from scoring. 

 

I fully understand the rule and in this case the ref got it completely wrong. 
 

 

[Gizmo]

36 minutes ago, IveSeenTheLight said:

 

If he got his hands on the ball, it wouldn't have been a foul. The fact he didn't meant it was a pen.

Correct decision in my opinion, but feel free to continue to disagree

Absolute nonsense. So you're basically saying - player has beaten the keeper but if the keeper makes a flailing attempt to reach the ball - which he has NO chance of reaching, and takes the player down he only gets a yellow because of the pathetic, ineffective attempt?

Yeah - generous interpretation of your keeper's actions that.

He deliberately took the player out to stop him scoring. Red card. 

[Gizmo]

24 minutes ago, IveSeenTheLight said:

 

Clearly I do and you don't.

 

This has taken up enough of the conversation and its clear that neither of us is able to persuade each other to change their opinion of the rule and how it is interpreted

A) You don't - you've made a biased interpretation to suit your own agenda.
B) **** off to sheeple.net 

[IveSeenTheLight]

2 minutes ago, Gizmo said:

Absolute nonsense. So you're basically saying - player has beaten the keeper but if the keeper makes a flailing attempt to reach the ball - which he has NO chance of reaching, and takes the player down he only gets a yellow because of the pathetic, ineffective attempt?
 

 

That is the rule. You may not like it, but that is the reality.

 

Ryan Hedges got sent off a couple of years ago that tried to pull out and accidentally clipped the players trailing leg.

 

He tried to pull out and as such was not making an attempt to tackle, so by the rules, he was sent off.

 

https://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/rangers/aberdeen-v-rangers-why-ryan-hedges-was-red-carded-trip-alfredo-morelos-led-penalty-3091271

 

Lewis made an attempt to get the ball and didn't get there so it was a foul, a pen was awarded and correctly as per the rules a yellow card was applied

[IveSeenTheLight]

1 minute ago, Barack said:

Was it...?

Hmmm, looking back you're correct, Lewis didn't get a yellow, but he should have

[Gizmo]

Just now, IveSeenTheLight said:

 

That is the rule. You may not like it, but that is the reality.

 

Ryan Hedges got sent off a couple of years ago that tried to pull out and accidentally clipped the players trailing leg.

 

He tried to pull out and as such was not making an attempt to tackle, so by the rules, he was sent off.

 

https://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/rangers/aberdeen-v-rangers-why-ryan-hedges-was-red-carded-trip-alfredo-morelos-led-penalty-3091271

 

Lewis made an attempt to get the ball and didn't get there so it was a foul, a pen was awarded and correctly as per the rules a yellow card was applied

"clearly not a genuine attempt to play or challenge for the ball".

Gino was away - that was not  a genuine attempt rather it was flailing in desperation. If he reached the ball, maybe you could call it as a 50/50 - otherwise, it's not. 

 Red card. 

[IveSeenTheLight]

1 minute ago, Barack said:

I asked at the time. How, could that silly ***** not even book him? 

 

The red rule is daft, but I didn't think red at the time, IMHO, as there were Aberdeen player's fairly close by, and one was behind Lewis at point of contact.

 

But it's a stonewall yellow. Incredibly poor from the ref. It's Scotland though after all.

 

Fully agree. It was a foul, it was a pen, it should have been a yellow

[Gizmo]

Aberdeen got leniency from the ref all day long. We weren't great but it's far easier to play and make challenges knowing you are never under pressure.

Clancy can do one. 

[Gizmo]

6 minutes ago, jonnothejambo said:

 

Next time I see him in the lift at the legal firm where he works I'll give him a telling off..

Good man. Remember to drop one before you get out at an early floor too. 😆

[busbyfth]

15 hours ago, Chuck Berry said:

 

I watched Red TV yesterday, Declan Gallacher was the co-commentator. We got a free kick in the middle of the park when it was still 0-0, commentator says it's a chance for Hearts to put a bit of pressure on the Aberdeen back line. Gallacher pipes-up "they'll pass it backwards" (we pass it backwards) "there you go, takes the pressure off us".

 

It doesn't take a genius to work out how we play, and it doesn't take a genius to conclude that we do not have any individuality, it's all structured and predictable.  Beni and Devlin have gone a bit backwards recently, I do wonder if that is because Neilson's coaching is starting to have an effect....

Robbie N.......when other teams/fans etc know that we do this far toom much - Doesnt it make you think ????????

[busbyfth]

15 hours ago, Pasquale for King said:

The uglies combined don’t have ten times our budget ffs, about 3 times each which is clearly enough to be ahead of us. We are currently level with Dundee Utd who have around a third of our budget, not that great is it?

Neilson said on Friday he wants another forward/wide player, dont see much change until next summer. 

Lets see now - do we need another winger (got 3 at least) or another centre forward (got one.......no others warrant getting called this) ?

[Pasquale for King]

Just now, busbyfth said:

Lets see now - do we need another winger (got 3 at least) or another centre forward (got one.......no others warrant getting called this) ?

Exactly, with Woodburn we have four players who play wide. He’s also used Walker and McEneff wide. 
He said in the last window he would like 5 or 6 wide men in a squad 🤔🤷🏾‍♂️🤦🏽?

[busbyfth]

5 hours ago, Hearts1975 said:

With the system being deployed, The wingers aren’t overlapping with the wing backs and getting in and behind.
That coupled with the fact that Gnando cannot hold the ball up to save himself, I get why we can’t pass forward at times. Who to pass to?

 

We need someone to hold the ball up front and we need some runs in behind the defenders toward the lines so the forward passes become available. I think that’s why Beni and Cammy are going left and right more often 

 

Having 1 up front means that they have to be able to hold the ball to allow others to penetrate. Gnando just can’t play the role effectively. Boyce can. Can’t believe some of the criticism he got before he got injured. 
 

That for me is what is causing the issue with the passing, and it’s a nonsense to suggest the players are being told to pass sideways and backwards. 

so they all just coincidentally choose to slowly grind sideways and back ? Gnando should stick to selling chicken dishes. 

[Pasquale for King]

5 hours ago, Hearts1975 said:

With the system being deployed, The wingers aren’t overlapping with the wing backs and getting in and behind.
That coupled with the fact that Gnando cannot hold the ball up to save himself, I get why we can’t pass forward at times. Who to pass to?

 

We need someone to hold the ball up front and we need some runs in behind the defenders toward the lines so the forward passes become available. I think that’s why Beni and Cammy are going left and right more often 

 

Having 1 up front means that they have to be able to hold the ball to allow others to penetrate. Gnando just can’t play the role effectively. Boyce can. Can’t believe some of the criticism he got before he got injured. 
 

That for me is what is causing the issue with the passing, and it’s a nonsense to suggest the players are being told to pass sideways and backwards. 

I agree but they do pass the ball sideways and backwards when Boyce is the team also, the manager bangs on about possession. We had 49% possession on Saturday and we were awful from start to finish with 5 formation changes. 

[Gizmo]

25 minutes ago, busbyfth said:

so they all just coincidentally choose to slowly grind sideways and back ? Gnando should stick to selling chicken dishes. 

FFS. 

[jamboozy]

1 hour ago, Gizmo said:

Good man. Remember to drop one before you get out at an early floor too. 😆

That’s just wrong on so many levels

[Gizmo]

Just now, jamboozy said:

That’s just wrong on so many levels

[jamboozy]

1 minute ago, Gizmo said:

😆

[Hearts1975]

10 hours ago, busbyfth said:

so they all just coincidentally choose to slowly grind sideways and back ? Gnando should stick to selling chicken dishes. 

We were passing forwards and creating lots of chances until Boyce got injured. Your right, I think Gnando is hopeless at holding up the ball, giving us less options to pass forward 
 

Plus the wingers and wing backs need to learn to overlap the full backs 

[Hearts1975]

10 hours ago, Pasquale for King said:

I agree but they do pass the ball sideways and backwards when Boyce is the team also, the manager bangs on about possession. We had 49% possession on Saturday and we were awful from start to finish with 5 formation changes. 

I get we have lost a bit of form but I just think losing Boyce and replacing him with Gnando hasn’t helped. Not that we had much choice but that’s another argument for us needing someone else in and when the window opens.

[Pasquale for King]

11 hours ago, Hearts1975 said:

I get we have lost a bit of form but I just think losing Boyce and replacing him with Gnando hasn’t helped. Not that we had much choice but that’s another argument for us needing someone else in and when the window opens.

It’s definitely made a difference but we weren’t exactly creating loads of chances and scoring for fun before that. Can you name any one in ones or sitters we’ve missed, them can’t think of one to be honest.
Teams have sussed out the tactics. 

Edited November 2, 2021 by Pasquale for King

[upgotheheads]

22 hours ago, Pasquale for King said:

Exactly, with Woodburn we have four players who play wide. He’s also used Walker and McEneff wide. 
He said in the last window he would like 5 or 6 wide men in a squad 🤔🤷🏾‍♂️🤦🏽?

 

Personally I like wing play, it's always been the most exciting thing to watch at a football match, currently we have four or five who can attack wide positions, and two who can attack through the middle. This was identified early in the season but we didn't address the problem and we haven't used the players who could arguably do that in McAneff and Walker. I think we might see both involved on Saturday.

[busbyfth]

22 hours ago, jamboozy said:

That’s just wrong on so many levels

oh....clever !!

[Lfhearts]

It was the bits of paper, the Halliday sub, the lack of change when Brown went to midfield that riled me. Typical Neilson performance.

[Pasquale for King]

44 minutes ago, upgotheheads said:

 

Personally I like wing play, it's always been the most exciting thing to watch at a football match, currently we have four or five who can attack wide positions, and two who can attack through the middle. This was identified early in the season but we didn't address the problem and we haven't used the players who could arguably do that in McAneff and Walker. I think we might see both involved on Saturday.

Everyone does, but I remember McInnes saying that when you play with wingbacks they get in the wingers way most of the time or make them go inside. I would play with two in 4231 or a 442, it’s the SPFL not the CL knockout stages. 

[Clear few]

On 30/10/2021 at 15:02, Awbdy Oot said:

 

It's ridiculous that our game isn't being shown on an illegal streaming site, you should complain mate. Not sure who to.

Cheers for the advice bud I complained and they got it on for me.

Not so sure it was worth it! 

[Nobreath]

4 hours ago, Lfhearts said:

It was the bits of paper, the Halliday sub, the lack of change when Brown went to midfield that riled me. Typical Neilson performance.

 

Neilson typically wins games at Hearts, but I'm just talking facts.

[Lfhearts]

2 hours ago, Nobreath said:

 

Neilson typically wins games at Hearts, but I'm just talking facts.

Not away from home in spl.