Former concentration camp guard on trial

[Maple Leaf]

52 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

The choice was join or be shot 

 

That is incorrect.  If you have evidence that SS members were shot if they refused guard duty in concentration camps, I would appreciate you pointing to it.

 

With regard to your earlier post where you said it was ludicrous to put a 100-year old on trial, at what age do you draw the line?  Is 90 too old? 80?

 

In my opinion, he should stand trial.  Let him plead his case.  If he was "only following orders" let him prove it.  If he's found guilty, he should spend his remaining years or months in a cell.

[leginten]

5 minutes ago, Ulysses said:

 

Nor am I convinced that I would have had the courage.  But if I went along with being an accessory to (at least) 3,518 counts of murder, and someone caught me years later at 96 or 100 years of age, they would be well within their rights to try me.

I’m in absolute agreement.

[JudyJudyJudy]

12 minutes ago, leginten said:

That’s a very interesting question, and incredibly difficult to answer. There’s an excellent book on this subject called “Hitler’s Willing Executioners” by Daniel Goldhagen. As the title suggests, his thesis is that most ordinary Germans were aware of what was going on and went along with it willingly.

 

As ever when it comes to standing up to the terrors of totalitarianism, the question for the individual is: “What would you have done? And when?”

 

I’m not convinced I would have had the courage.

Most people wouldn’t have 

5 minutes ago, Sharpie said:

 

I am not sure from my recollections of the war, and my ensuing studies of it as I have grown up. My view is that the German people of the time were open to a ranting lunatic promising them greatness again. Do not forget  Hitler got into power in a reasonably short time after Germany had lost a World War. His preachings and rantings gave the citizens hope that their Country would again be a world power. Many put their sons into the Hitler Youth, a basic army cadet force, many of these well brainwashed youngsters became members of the S.S. who had responsibility for concentration camps. As a member of one of Britains elite Regiments, my training was total belief in the Regiment and the orders of my superiors, its not hard for me to see how young men could be brainwashed into absolute belief in their orders and the purpose of such. Hitler was seen by his enemies a a buffoon, but he did have the ability to stir a crowd, especially one with the desire to hear and accept what he had to say. Germany also had some very capable military leaders, Rommel probably one of the best known, his problem he was becoming more of a celebrity and hero than his Master so he was disposed of. Hitler to me was a gifted public speaker, but intellectually challenged. He wanted to get rid of a race, the Jews ,because they were successful, a semi intelligent man would not have annihilated them but would have controlled them but availed himself of their talents.

The camps were exactly what they were seen to be a place of nuisance disposal, everyone who worked in them knew exactly what they were doing and why, despite advanced age any participant must be Tried, and if the evidence supports conviction, so should it be, no need to jail an excessively elderly man, but to show proof that he was part of a homicidal gang should be enough to ensure that at no time in the future should he be classed as a man who was just doing his duty, he was an accomplice to murder, and the total elimination of a class, race and religion, of other human bings.

 

Interesting points . 

[Savage Vince]

6 hours ago, Cade said:

It's somewhat strange that some people are both in support of prosecuting centenarians for war crimes committed 80 years ago but are also in support of giving UK troopers immunity from prosecution for relatively recent war crimes committed in Afghanistan, Iraq and Northern Ireland.

 

You either prosecute all war crimes, or you don't.

 

 

Take a ****ing bow pal. 👌

[sadj]

6 minutes ago, Maple Leaf said:

 

That is incorrect.  If you have evidence that SS members were shot if they refused guard duty in concentration camps, I would appreciate you pointing to it.

 

With regard to your earlier post where you said it was ludicrous to put a 100-year old on trial, at what age do you draw the line?  Is 90 too old? 80?

 

In my opinion, he should stand trial.  Let him plead his case.  If he was "only following orders" let him prove it.  If he's found guilty, he should spend his remaining years or months in a cell.

The gentleman in question has the opportunity to plead his case bit has stated (in the original article) that he will only speak to confirm personal details and nothing else. 

[The Hogfather]

3 hours ago, Herbert said:

I watched something about how Hitler basically brainwashed the Germans into his way of thinking, it was very smart how he turned the Germans against the Jews and ordinary people became fanatics caught up in his storm. Its not worth the time and money prosecuting a guy thats had to live with what he's done for 80years.

 

Without knowing the details of this particular man and his role during the war, I'd still exercise caution at suggesting that "having to live with what he's done". There are plenty examples of Germans who lived long after the war, who still held the same beliefs they did during Hitlers regime. I've seen a few documentaries where former Wehrmacht soldiers or SS officers maintain their absolute belief in what the Third Reich did.

 

2 hours ago, JamesM48 said:

Well what would sending him to jail accomplish ? Revenge ? Satisfaction ? It’s important to move forward and not be consumed with ideas of revenge . It doesn’t help people really.  Sorry some may equate justice with revenge . Why isn’t the secretary just as culpable ? She helped keep the camp functioning ? Some would argue . People state that joining the SS was voluntary ? Im

not So sure that people maybe felt they had a choice 

 

Justice. Sending someone to prison for crimes they have committed isn't revenge, as you keep trying to claim, it's making sure justice is done. If this individual has committed some of the atrocities we now know the Third Reich committed, then his age is absolutely irrelevant to the matter. Those who suffered in those camps deserve to have justice meted out to those who caused it. 

[leginten]

16 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

Undoubtedly many did, and many were shot by the gestapo.

The Nazi regime had infiltrated every facet of society, friends & neighbours turned fellow friends & neighbours over to the police, nobody was safe, therefore it took a very brave person to even question the regime in public, let alone try and resist it.

The story of Sophie Scholl and Die Weiße Rose (the White Rose) in Munich is one of the best-known examples of domestic resistance. She organised a group which tried to instigate protest and non co-operation amongst university students by distributing anti-Nazi leaflets and other material.

 

They were caught. She, her brother and a third member were guillotined in a Munich prison. She was 21.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

5 minutes ago, sadj said:

The gentleman in question has the opportunity to plead his case bit has stated (in the original article) that he will only speak to confirm personal details and nothing else. 

 

Effectively name rank & serial number, a soldier to the end, which kinda says it all, if he did nothing wrong why not plead his innocence.

[Ulysses]

Just now, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

Effectively name rank & serial number, a soldier to the end, which kinda says it all, if he did nothing wrong why not plead his innocence.

 

Befehl ist befehl.

[Ray Gin]

17 minutes ago, Maple Leaf said:

 

That is incorrect.  If you have evidence that SS members were shot if they refused guard duty in concentration camps, I would appreciate you pointing to it.

 

With regard to your earlier post where you said it was ludicrous to put a 100-year old on trial, at what age do you draw the line?  Is 90 too old? 80?

 

In my opinion, he should stand trial.  Let him plead his case.  If he was "only following orders" let him prove it.  If he's found guilty, he should spend his remaining years or months in a cell.

 

👍👍

[Sharpie]

22 minutes ago, Savage Vince said:

 

Take a ****ing bow pal. 👌

 

I have no argument with that, standards are standards.

[SectionDJambo]

14 minutes ago, Sharpie said:

 

I am not sure from my recollections of the war, and my ensuing studies of it as I have grown up. My view is that the German people of the time were open to a ranting lunatic promising them greatness again. Do not forget  Hitler got into power in a reasonably short time after Germany had lost a World War. His preachings and rantings gave the citizens hope that their Country would again be a world power. Many put their sons into the Hitler Youth, a basic army cadet force, many of these well brainwashed youngsters became members of the S.S. who had responsibility for concentration camps. As a member of one of Britains elite Regiments, my training was total belief in the Regiment and the orders of my superiors, its not hard for me to see how young men could be brainwashed into absolute belief in their orders and the purpose of such. Hitler was seen by his enemies a a buffoon, but he did have the ability to stir a crowd, especially one with the desire to hear and accept what he had to say. Germany also had some very capable military leaders, Rommel probably one of the best known, his problem he was becoming more of a celebrity and hero than his Master so he was disposed of. Hitler to me was a gifted public speaker, but intellectually challenged. He wanted to get rid of a race, the Jews ,because they were successful, a semi intelligent man would not have annihilated them but would have controlled them but availed himself of their talents.

The camps were exactly what they were seen to be a place of nuisance disposal, everyone who worked in them knew exactly what they were doing and why, despite advanced age any participant must be Tried, and if the evidence supports conviction, so should it be, no need to jail an excessively elderly man, but to show proof that he was part of a homicidal gang should be enough to ensure that at no time in the future should he be classed as a man who was just doing his duty, he was an accomplice to murder, and the total elimination of a class, race and religion, of other human bings.

 

I read, many years ago, that the Nazi party accused the Jewish community of taking advantage of the financial turmoil in Germany after the Great War, to create a lot of wealth for themselves at the expense of other, non Jewish, Germans. This accusation was promoted to excuse the harassment the Jews suffered in the 1930s and developed into the horrific "Final Solution". There can't be much doubt that German people knew that their Jewish neighbours weren't being taken away from their homes for anything but sinister reasons, but by that time it seems that most didn't really care, due to the relentless propaganda, or were too afraid to do or say anything in case they ended up in the same place. The Nazi dictatorship were the same as many others in that any critisism wasn't tolerated and intellectuals who may have spread thoughts of a different way of behaving were taken off to a similar fate as the German Jews.

It's my belief that we cannot condemn a nation's entire population for a situation that they couldn't control due to state domination. That doesn't just go for Germany. It also applies to other nations whose people couldn't prevent atrocities being carried out in their name. 

[leginten]

40 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

Interesting points . 

It’s also very difficult to determine who knew what because of the great silence that engulfed the whole subject of WW2 in the immediate post-war years in Germany, generally speaking until the 1970s. This affected the home, the workplace, education, just about every sector of society. It was understandable - nobody wanted to ask or answer questions about what their husband, father or colleague had been up to from 1939-45. Plus there was a country to rebuild, everyday life to get on with, exhaustion and hardship to deal with. It wasn’t a popular subject, and if you were a writer like Heinrich Böll who satirised the ignoring of the elephant in the room, you made yourself deeply unpopular with conservative society.

 

 

Edited October 8, 2021 by leginten

[Herbert.]

1 hour ago, Cruyff said:

There was actually a paper written on this by David H. Kittermann which includes a number of testimonials from German officers and soldiers who cited German Military Code which allowed soldiers to refuse any order recognised as illegal. Many did and were not executed for doing so. 

 

Bet 99% of those that refused a order were sent to the Eastern front where they would be complicit in war crimes anyway.

[Sharpie]

4 minutes ago, SectionDJambo said:

I read, many years ago, that the Nazi party accused the Jewish community of taking advantage of the financial turmoil in Germany after the Great War, to create a lot of wealth for themselves at the expense of other, non Jewish, Germans. This accusation was promoted to excuse the harassment the Jews suffered in the 1930s and developed into the horrific "Final Solution". There can't be much doubt that German people knew that their Jewish neighbours weren't being taken away from their homes for anything but sinister reasons, but by that time it seems that most didn't really care, due to the relentless propaganda, or were too afraid to do or say anything in case they ended up in the same place. The Nazi dictatorship were the same as many others in that any critisism wasn't tolerated and intellectuals who may have spread thoughts of a different way of behaving were taken off to a similar fate as the German Jews.

It's my belief that we cannot condemn a nation's entire population for a situation that they couldn't control due to state domination. That doesn't just go for Germany. It also applies to other nations whose people couldn't prevent atrocities being carried out in their name. 

  Really the only alternative the public have to a regime is public protest, such action against the Nazis would have put any German in danger of joining those for whom he/she were protesting. I have seen the period described as terrible times, and so it must have been for someone who just wanted to be a regular good living, human being.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

32 minutes ago, Maple Leaf said:

 

That is incorrect.  If you have evidence that SS members were shot if they refused guard duty in concentration camps, I would appreciate you pointing to it.

 

With regard to your earlier post where you said it was ludicrous to put a 100-year old on trial, at what age do you draw the line?  Is 90 too old? 80?

 

In my opinion, he should stand trial.  Let him plead his case.  If he was "only following orders" let him prove it.  If he's found guilty, he should spend his remaining years or months in a cell.

 

For me his age is completely irrelevant and has no bearing on the case or the charges whatsoever.

 

If he had been brought to trial in the 1950's when he'd have been in his 30's, he'd be facing charges relating to his time in the camp between 1942-45, exactly the same date period and charges as he's facing today.  All that's changed is he's got older and many if not nearly all of the witnesses have died.

[JudyJudyJudy]

29 minutes ago, Ray Gin said:

 

👍👍

How can he prove anything now . Besides it’s up to the prosecution to prove guilt not the defendant to prove his or her guilt 

[sadj]

Just now, leginten said:

It’s also very difficult to determine who knew what because of the great silence that engulfed the whole subject of the WW2 in the immediate post-war years in Germany, generally speaking until the 1970s. This affected the home, the workplace, education, just about every sector of society. It was understandable - nobody wanted to ask or answer questions about what their husband, father or colleague had been up to from 1939-45. Plus there was a country to rebuild, everyday life to get on with, exhaustion and hardship to deal with. It wasn’t a popular subject, and if you were a writer like Heinrich Böll who satirised the ignoring of the elephant in the room, you made yourself deeply unpopular with conservative society.

 

 

Tbf it didnt end in 1945 either , the US for instance helped Barbie to get to South America , Peron helped upwards of 5000 Nazi officers and SS staff to escape to Argentina including people like Eichman and Mengele others were helped to escape from places like Italy and Spain to Brazil , Chile and Paraguay. Not opening up about it or pushing that until a quarter century after the war ended helped Germany but also helped other nations to avoid awkward questions. 

[sadj]

2 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

How can he prove anything now . Besides it’s up to the prosecution to prove guilt not the defendant to prove his or her guilt 

You are seriously all over the place here. You started with its ludicrous putting a man of his age through a trial and saying let it go move on. Now you have moved on to completely different issues. Are you still of the belief people over a certain age shouldn’t be bothered by the police and absolved of crimes they may have committed or is it only potential war criminals?

[The Hogfather]

2 minutes ago, sadj said:

You are seriously all over the place here. You started with its ludicrous putting a man of his age through a trial and saying let it go move on. Now you have moved on to completely different issues. Are you still of the belief people over a certain age shouldn’t be bothered by the police and absolved of crimes they may have committed or is it only potential war criminals?

 

James doesn't actually have a stance beyond being contrary for the sake of it. He's already demonstrated a distinct lack of knowledge around the subject matter and I doubt he really believes what he's saying.

[JudyJudyJudy]

Just now, sadj said:

You are seriously all over the place here. You started with its ludicrous putting a man of his age through a trial and saying let it go move on. Now you have moved on to completely different issues. Are you still of the belief people over a certain age shouldn’t be bothered by the police and absolved of crimes they may have committed or is it only potential war criminals?

No I have been clear I think we need to move on , it’s a show trial really . I never said he should be absolved of his crimes . Sorry alleged crimes . Let’s remember that . I think that as a civilised forgiven society we should rightly condemn him of guilty , but explore or try to understand how he became involved in it all . It may help in the future to try and understand how an individual can sink so low. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

2 minutes ago, Nunya Business said:

 

James doesn't actually have a stance beyond being contrary for the sake of it. He's already demonstrated a distinct lack of knowledge around the subject matter and I doubt he really believes what he's saying.

Wrong . 

[sadj]

3 minutes ago, Nunya Business said:

 

James doesn't actually have a stance beyond being contrary for the sake of it. He's already demonstrated a distinct lack of knowledge around the subject matter and I doubt he really believes what he's saying.

I have no doubt he believes what he’s saying and will double down rightly or wrongly. My knowledge is limited but I think if there is a case to answer it should be answered. 
 

 

2 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

No I have been clear I think we need to move on , it’s a show trial really . I never said he should be absolved of his crimes . Sorry alleged crimes . Let’s remember that . I think that as a civilised forgiven society we should rightly condemn him of guilty , but explore or try to understand how he became involved in it all . It may help in the future to try and understand how an individual can sink so low. 

That is something that will all come out in a trial if he chooses to co-operate which he has said he won’t. That to me says enough. You have constantly said he was clearly coerced too. People have shown you that is at best highly unlikely yet you stick with that position. No one is saying execute him or jail him but he should rightly be tried.

 

Youve been asked twice now at what age you think it shouldn’t matter anymore and we should just forget about crimes but not answered.

[Maple Leaf]

16 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

How can he prove anything now . Besides it’s up to the prosecution to prove guilt not the defendant to prove his or her guilt 

 

The German Code of Criminal Proceedings is different from that of the UK.  In the UK, an accused is assumed to be innocent, and the burden of proof lies with the prosecution.  That is not the case in Germany.  A judge, or judges, will listen to the evidence from both parties then issue a decision.

 

I believe that there is precedent in Germany for this case.  If you were a member of the SS and were a guard at a concentration camp, you are guilty.  However, I'm not certain on that last point.

 

 

[The Hogfather]

6 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

Wrong . 

 

About what? That you don't really know what you're talking about? That's already been proven.

 

Just now, sadj said:

I have no doubt he believes what he’s saying and will double down rightly or wrongly. My knowledge is limited but I think if there is a case to answer it should be answered. 
 

 

That is something that will all come out in a trial if he chooses to co-operate which he has said he won’t. That to me says enough. You have constantly said he was clearly coerced too. People have shown you that is at best highly unlikely yet you stick with that position. No one is saying execute him or jail him but he should rightly be tried.

 

Youve been asked twice now at what age you think it shouldn’t matter anymore and we should just forget about crimes but not answered.

 

He should absolutely face justice, if he's guilty. At least you're open to admitting your lack of knowledge, rather than making wild, baseless claims about something of which you know little. It's better to be thought of as a fool than to open your mouth and prove people right.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

17 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

How can he prove anything now . Besides it’s up to the prosecution to prove guilt not the defendant to prove his or her guilt 

 

I'd imagine witnesses if there is any still alive, but also testaments from witnesses over the years, as someone said the authorities have a lot of information on many/most of the guards and what role they took part in the killings, if any.

[JudyJudyJudy]

3 minutes ago, Maple Leaf said:

 

The German Code of Criminal Proceedings is different from that of the UK.  In the UK, an accused is assumed to be innocent, and the burden of proof lies with the prosecution.  That is not the case in Germany.  A judge, or judges, will listen to the evidence from both parties then issue a decision.

 

I believe that there is precedent in Germany for this case.  If you were a member of the SS and were a guard at a concentration camp, you are guilty.  However, I'm not certain on that last point.

 

 

Thanks for that information . I didn’t know . Very interesting , 

2 minutes ago, Nunya Business said:

 

About what? That you don't really know what you're talking about? That's already been proven.

 

 

He should absolutely face justice, if he's guilty. At least you're open to admitting your lack of knowledge, rather than making wild, baseless claims about something of which you know little. It's better to be thought of as a fool than to open your mouth and prove people right.

I tend to

ignore you as I recall an unpleasant posting from you regarding me a few months back . 

[The Hogfather]

Just now, JamesM48 said:

Thanks for that information . I didn’t know . Very interesting , 

I tend to

ignore you as I recall an unpleasant posting from you regarding me a few months back . 

 

Yet here you are. Lucky me.

[leginten]

11 minutes ago, sadj said:

Tbf it didnt end in 1945 either , the US for instance helped Barbie to get to South America , Peron helped upwards of 5000 Nazi officers and SS staff to escape to Argentina including people like Eichman and Mengele others were helped to escape from places like Italy and Spain to Brazil , Chile and Paraguay. Not opening up about it or pushing that until a quarter century after the war ended helped Germany but also helped other nations to avoid awkward questions. 

Yes - a lot of people in many countries had a vested interest in silence. Not least in the newly-formed GDR, where millions of ex-Nazis miraculously became good communists within four years of the war ending. 

[sadj]

4 minutes ago, Nunya Business said:

 

About what? That you don't really know what you're talking about? That's already been proven.

 

 

He should absolutely face justice, if he's guilty. At least you're open to admitting your lack of knowledge, rather than making wild, baseless claims about something of which you know little. It's better to be thought of as a fool than to open your mouth and prove people right.

My knowledge on the war is very limited. Iv read and seen a huge amount on the movement of Nazis to South America afterwards which I find insane but for instance Peron worked in Italy before the war and was interested in the beliefs of Mussolini and Hitler. He also wanted to bring them there to help advance the Argentine economy and infrastructure. Fascinating subject and leads to a lot of questions such as why theres been no comeuppance for those who helped people like Barbie escape to Bolivia in their employ when that country lost thousands of soldiers due to his party’s beliefs. 

[leginten]

1 hour ago, Tazio said:

And he's been pretty much denounced by most people for the book and the anti German tone of it that some have described as racist. He's an extremist in terms of his writings on the holocaust and throwing blame around. I seem to remember he wrote another piece accusing the catholic church of being part of it. 

It’s a fair cop. I read it when it came out and was impressed. To be honest, I wasn’t aware of the subsequent negative reaction. Successful rather than excellent.

 

 

[The Hogfather]

Just now, sadj said:

My knowledge on the war is very limited. Iv read and seen a huge amount on the movement of Nazis to South America afterwards which I find insane but for instance Peron worked in Italy before the war and was interested in the beliefs of Mussolini and Hitler. He also wanted to bring them there to help advance the Argentine economy and infrastructure. Fascinating subject and leads to a lot of questions such as why theres been no comeuppance for those who helped people like Barbie escape to Bolivia in their employ when that country lost thousands of soldiers due to his party’s beliefs. 

 

While I'm certainly no expert on the subject, I take quite a lot of interest in the events between 1918 and the end of WWII. I like a good documentary that looks beyond the battles and invasions. There's loads on Skys on demand service. 

[sadj]

6 minutes ago, leginten said:

Yes - a lot of people in many countries had a vested interest in silence. Not least in the newly-formed GDR, where millions of ex-Nazis miraculously became good communists within four years of the war ending. 

Indeed as Iv just said my knowledge on the war is limited but the stuff afterwards I find fascinating. 

[SectionDJambo]

30 minutes ago, sadj said:

Tbf it didnt end in 1945 either , the US for instance helped Barbie to get to South America , Peron helped upwards of 5000 Nazi officers and SS staff to escape to Argentina including people like Eichman and Mengele others were helped to escape from places like Italy and Spain to Brazil , Chile and Paraguay. Not opening up about it or pushing that until a quarter century after the war ended helped Germany but also helped other nations to avoid awkward questions. 

Let's not forget the Americans openly took Werner von Braun and some of his colleagues to America to develop their rocket program which ultimately gave them the advantage in the race to put a man on the moon. The same chap who had helped develop the rocket bombs that fell on London, otherwise nicknamed Doodlebugs, I believe.

[sadj]

Just now, SectionDJambo said:

Let's not forget the Americans openly took Werner von Braun and some of his colleagues to America to develop their rocket program which ultimately gave them the advantage in the race to put a man on the moon. The same chap who had helped develop the rocket bombs that fell on London, otherwise nicknamed Doodlebugs, I believe.

Lol i just had my wee potshot at the US with Barbie. He was employed by the US intelligence services to advise on how to get information through torture. 
 

Absolute brute his whole life , interesting article here that gives a small overview of what he got up to after the war

 

https://www.history.com/.amp/this-day-in-history/butcher-of-lyon-on-trial

[CF11JamTart]

33 minutes ago, leginten said:

Yes - a lot of people in many countries had a vested interest in silence. Not least in the newly-formed GDR, where millions of ex-Nazis miraculously became good communists within four years of the war ending. 

And lots of ex SS either got spirited away to South America (often with the assistance of the Catholic Church) or got identity changes and nice little influential jobs in post War West Germany, running businesses or in civil service positions. 

 

Philippe Sands' book "The Ratline" is well-worth a read for the "what happened next to the SS". 

 

It's also a podcast on BBC iplayer. 

 

Laurence Rees' "The Holocaust" is outstanding. 

[jack D and coke]

The nazis might just be the most fascinating movement ever. Incredibly clever, advanced, forward thinking and evil as ****. 
A whisker away from succeeding. Mind boggling. 

[sadj]

5 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

The nazis might just be the most fascinating movement ever. Incredibly clever, advanced, forward thinking and evil as ****. 
A whisker away from succeeding. Mind boggling. 

Indeed , Some of the building techniques they used were insane for the time too. 

[SectionDJambo]

9 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

The nazis might just be the most fascinating movement ever. Incredibly clever, advanced, forward thinking and evil as ****. 
A whisker away from succeeding. Mind boggling. 

Thank goodness they had an idiot in charge. Invading Russia so close to winter was crazy.

[jack D and coke]

1 minute ago, sadj said:

Indeed , Some of the building techniques they used were insane for the time too. 

Had started messing with genetics and apparently explored alien life and stuff. What did they know? Or do? 
Mind boggling for the time. 
No man on the noon without the nazis either. 
Mental. 

[jack D and coke]

Just now, SectionDJambo said:

Thank goodness they had an idiot in charge. Invading Russia so close to winter was crazy.

He was anything but an idiot imo. 
Absolutely not. 
You can’t possibly do what he did if you were an idiot. 

[SectionDJambo]

Just now, jack D and coke said:

He was anything but an idiot imo. 
Absolutely not. 
You can’t possibly do what he did if you were an idiot. 

The arrogance of power then?

Thought he could do anything without adverse consequences?

[Savage Vince]

1 hour ago, CF11JamTart said:

And lots of ex SS either got spirited away to South America (often with the assistance of the Catholic Church) or got identity changes and nice little influential jobs in post War West Germany, running businesses or in civil service positions. 

 

Philippe Sands' book "The Ratline" is well-worth a read for the "what happened next to the SS". 

 

It's also a podcast on BBC iplayer. 

 

Laurence Rees' "The Holocaust" is outstanding. 

 

Been well documented too that a lot of very clever Nazi Party members began smuggling some of the remaining Jews out of Germany and the occupied countries from 1943 onwards when they knew the game was up. Some would escape and become character witnesses for those very people after the war. Most wouldn't get that far once they had handed over everything they had. It was an utter racket. 

Edited October 8, 2021 by Savage Vince

[The Hogfather]

4 minutes ago, SectionDJambo said:

Thank goodness they had an idiot in charge. Invading Russia so close to winter was crazy.

 

 

They actually invaded in June 1941, not the winter. They were never seriously going to conquer the Soviet Union, that would have been a genuine "until the last man" defence by the Russians.

[JudyJudyJudy]

16 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

The nazis might just be the most fascinating movement ever. Incredibly clever, advanced, forward thinking and evil as ****. 
A whisker away from succeeding. Mind boggling. 

I still can’t understand how they managed to invade so many countries and take over them like France Italy Poland ? Maybe some one knows That answer ?

[Cade]

The "World War Two" channel on YouTube has a sub-series called "War Against Humanity", which is truly harrowing viewing.
As it's being released in real time as events happened, the horrors are still increasing every episode.

They started the project almost three years ago.

 

 

Due to the nature of the videos, it won't allow embedding.

https://www.youtube.com/c/WorldWarTwo

 

The main series itself is a week by week account of the war. 

They do tons of other sub-series as well and it's all excellent content.

 

The same team also did a week-by-week coverage of The Great War.

[JudyJudyJudy]

12 minutes ago, sadj said:

Indeed , Some of the building techniques they used were insane for the time too. 

Their architecture was incredible . I always think Fountainbridge library is a classic example of Art Deco , it’s very  .Germanic in appearance .,

[The Hogfather]

5 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

I still can’t understand how they managed to invade so many countries and take over them like France Italy Poland ? Maybe some one knows That answer ?

 

The Germans never invaded Italy.

[jack D and coke]

5 minutes ago, Nunya Business said:

 

 

They actually invaded in June 1941, not the winter. They were never seriously going to conquer the Soviet Union, that would have been a genuine "until the last man" defence by the Russians.

Russia won the war really. 

[Savage Vince]

3 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

I still can’t understand how they managed to invade so many countries and take over them like France Italy Poland ? Maybe some one knows That answer ?

 

It's way easier to understand once you've read up on who was bankrolling them and to what extent.