The Fear of Losing

[GinRummy]

2 minutes ago, merrymac said:

"McAneff would be a revelation at wing back - 

evidence - it worked for Clare 😂

Tbf Clare was part of a back 4 when he played RB. 

[merrymac]

1 minute ago, GinRummy said:

Tbf Clare was part of a back 4 when he played RB. 

So he got that wrong as well😂

[GinRummy]

Just now, davemclaren said:

He’s certainly more cautious than Stendel but less cautious than Levein imo. 

😂 that’s a fairly solid statement. Have we ever had a manager who was less cautious than Daniel. 

[GinRummy]

1 minute ago, merrymac said:

So he got that wrong as well😂

You’ve got me thinking if I’m wrong now. I’m fairly sure we played a back 4 when Clare played full back. 

[davemclaren]

2 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

😂 that’s a fairly solid statement. Have we ever had a manager who was less cautious than Daniel. 

Not in my lifetime. 😄

[GinRummy]

2 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

Not in my lifetime. 😄

Maybe the ‘he was the right manager at the wrong time’ chat was completely misinterpreted. A time machine and back to the 1950’s could have seen him do well. 

[mitch41]

Defend this team:

                                                                                Gordon

 

                                       Souttar.                          Halkett.                      Kingsley

 

                                                      Beni.                              Haring

Smith.                                                                                                                                         Cochrane 

      
 

                                                               Woodburn.                             GMS

 

                                                                                       Boyce 

[GinRummy]

15 minutes ago, mitch41 said:

Defend this team:

                                                                                Gordon

 

                                       Souttar.                          Halkett.                      Kingsley

 

                                                      Beni.                              Haring

Smith.                                                                                                                                         Cochrane 

      
 

                                                               Woodburn.                             GMS

 

                                                                                       Boyce 

I agree Mitch. It either needs a more attack minded central midfielder or Woodburn playing number 10 with McKay or Gino or GMS on either side. 

Edited September 14, 2021 by GinRummy

[mitch41]

14 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

I agree Mitch. It either needs a more attack minded central midfielder or Woodburn playing number 10 with McKay or Gino on the other side. 

Most fans would agree. Those who know how to have a go at winning this league.

please get this into your heads there is no team that Hearts should be frightened of let’s show everyone that we are going to have a go in this league. Let’s grow a pair is my message to Neilson.

Edited September 14, 2021 by mitch41

[Russ1977]

36 minutes ago, mitch41 said:

Ok let’s say Woodburn, a goal scorer, for McKay & GMS for Ginnelly, like for like, and Moore for Smith thinking of being more defensive !! No, maybe but definitely not going for a win. Thank god for Craig Gordon, yes !

My biggest problems with the subs was the timing of them. Smith fair enough as he was struggling with injury. Woodburn and GMS were heavily involved and causing hibs problems when they were taken off. Very obvious at the time that these subs were pre planned and didn’t take in to account how the games was going. No idea why any manager would work like that, I get having plans in place but surely there must be flexibility as well. 

[Jim Panzee]

19 minutes ago, mitch41 said:

Defend this team:

                                                                                Gordon

 

                                       Souttar.                          Halkett.                      Kingsley

 

                                                      Beni.                              Haring

Smith.                                                                                                                                         Cochrane 

      
 

                                                               Woodburn.                             GMS

 

                                                                                       Boyce 

pretty easy really.

 

joint second in the Premiership table. Lost zero games in the prem.

 

 

[merrymac]

24 minutes ago, mitch41 said:

Defend this team:

                                                                                Gordon

 

                                       Souttar.                          Halkett.                      Kingsley

 

                                                      Beni.                              Haring

Smith.                                                                                                                                         Cochrane 

      
 

                                                               Woodburn.                             GMS

 

                                                                                       Boyce 

[Nookie Bear]

5 minutes ago, merrymac said:

 

 

(the image, not the quote itself)

[merrymac]

Just now, Nookie Bear said:

 

 

(the image, not the quote itself)

??

[Des Lynam]

14 minutes ago, mitch41 said:

Most fans would agree. Those who know how to have a go at winning this league.

please get this into your heads there is no team that Hearts should be frightened of let’s show everyone that we are going to have a go in this league. Let’s grow a pair is my message to Neilson.

I get what you’re saying but you also need a touch of realism in there. He’s got to get the chance to build something. I think he would have thrown two up top on Saturday if hibs second half tactics weren’t just punt it up to Boyle. 

[Tasavallan]

10 minutes ago, Russ1977 said:

My biggest problems with the subs was the timing of them. Smith fair enough as he was struggling with injury. Woodburn and GMS were heavily involved and causing hibs problems when they were taken off. Very obvious at the time that these subs were pre planned and didn’t take in to account how the games was going. No idea why any manager would work like that, I get having plans in place but surely there must be flexibility as well. 

I agree GMS was at his most potent.  He just had 2 shots brilliantly saved and I reckoned the next shot would be a goal. Ginnelly was not quite to the same standard.   McKay for Woodburn was apples for pears.

[Nelly Terraces]

43 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

😂 that’s a fairly solid statement. Have we ever had a manager who was less cautious than Daniel. 

It was the most bonkers appointment going, as we literally went from an ultra defensive manager who didn't think you needed to bother attacking to win games to one who was totally kamikaze & didn't think you needed to defend. 

 

Only Hearts could go from one extreme to another like that. 

[Pasquale for King]

13 minutes ago, merrymac said:

Could you name 5 teams that have won titles with 8 defensive players in their teams?

[GinRummy]

1 minute ago, Nelly Terraces said:

It was the most bonkers appointment going, as we literally went from an ultra defensive manager who didn't think you needed to bother attacking to win games to one who was totally kamikaze & didn't think you needed to defend. 

 

Only Hearts could go from one extreme to another like that. 

I’m not going to lie, at the time I was buzzing for it. You look back on things with hindsight and you’re like ‘how the **** did that happen’. Same with Leveins bluster. I fell for his pish for a long time as well. Not normally gullible but hearts seem to ge my soft spot. 

[Tasavallan]

The OP does tend to have a one-trick-pony of an agenda.  Whether I agree with it, or not, it is getting tremendously tedious.

[john thomas]

54 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

Tbf Clare was part of a back 4 when he played RB. 

Ah ! Was thinking he'd played in Co. Clare 

[Bazzas right boot]

17 minutes ago, merrymac said:

 

 

What does he know tho? 

 

Attack, get the full backs up high, press high and play 2 up front. 

That's the way to win games. 

[GinRummy]

2 minutes ago, john thomas said:

Ah ! Was thinking he'd played in Co. Clare 

😀

[merrymac]

3 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Could you name 5 teams that have won titles with 8 defensive players in their teams?

I will email Sir Alex and get back to you

We are newly back in the league, have had a difficult start in terms of the teams we had to play.

Surely a cautious approach to make sure we get off to a solid start, has been justified by the results?

Hopefully we will see a more expansive approach if results continue to be good and players settle in

[merrymac]

3 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

 

What does he know tho? 

 

Attack, get the full backs up high, press high and play 2 up front. 

That's the way to win games. 

press high is surely a form of positive defence?

[Homme]

10 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Could you name 5 teams that have won titles with 8 defensive players in their teams?

 

You're looking at previous positions for some players and not the position they are now being asked to do 

[DS98]

3 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Could you name 5 teams that have won titles with 8 defensive players in their teams?

But of a strange question. I’ve never seen a team play the same formation every single game in a season for about 20 years. 
 

However, Chelsea won the league under Conte with a very similar system. Moses and Alonso as wingbacks. 
 

Same team also just won the Champions League in May. Different manager, same system. 
 

(Btw I’m a fan of the system, not the personnel)

[Nelly Terraces]

Just now, GinRummy said:

I’m not going to lie, at the time I was buzzing for it. You look back on things with hindsight and you’re like ‘how the **** did that happen’. Same with Leveins bluster. I fell for his pish for a long time as well. Not normally gullible but hearts seem to get my soft spot. 

Likewise re Stendel mate, thought 'here we go', but it was all a bit mad under him, despite a couple of marquee results v Secvo & the vermin, I mean that Hamilton game at home was just WTF stuff as it looked like we only had a back 2 playing! Wish you COULD win games playing like that but sadly no chance!

 

I'd had it with Levein a long way back though, the guy is full of BS. 

[Bazzas right boot]

8 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Could you name 5 teams that have won titles with 8 defensive players in their teams?

 

Leagues, European cups and world cups have been won on defence. 

 

Good Defending is good. 

If you defend bad, it's bad. 

 

 

1 minute ago, merrymac said:

press high is surely a form of positive defence?

 

Aye, but what if both teams do it? 

Might blow some minds. 

[The Tackle]

Both the anti Neilson Brigade and the Happy clappers are getting boring now. 

 

I'll admit i wanted Neilson gone after Brora but the start to this season has earned him time. This never ending argument is ruining this forum 

[GinRummy]

1 minute ago, Nelly Terraces said:

Likewise re Stendel mate, thought 'here we go', but it was all a bit mad under him, despite a couple of marquee results v Secvo & the vermin, I mean that Hamilton game at home was just WTF stuff as it looked like we only had a back 2 playing! Wish you COULD win games playing like that but sadly no chance!

 

I'd had it with Levein a long way back though, the guy is full of BS. 

When the whole the right guy was along the corridor chat was quoted on the press I was like “of course, how daft could I have been not to realise”. 😂😂

 

 

[merrymac]

1 minute ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

Leagues, European cups and world cups have been won on defence. 

 

Good Defending is good. 

If you defend bad, it's bad. 

 

 

 

Aye, but what if both teams do it? 

Might blow some minds. 

WE might not only end up with preconceived subs but agreeing the type of defence with the opposition before the start😂

[Des Lynam]

12 minutes ago, The Tackle said:

Both the anti Neilson Brigade and the Happy clappers are getting boring now. 

 

I'll admit i wanted Neilson gone after Brora but the start to this season has earned him time. This never ending argument is ruining this forum 

This. 

[Pasquale for King]

22 minutes ago, merrymac said:

I will email Sir Alex and get back to you

We are newly back in the league, have had a difficult start in terms of the teams we had to play.

Surely a cautious approach to make sure we get off to a solid start, has been justified by the results?

Hopefully we will see a more expansive approach if results continue to be good and players settle in

No need, he never put 8 defensive players on any pitch in any match. 
Glad to see you admit he’s cautious, he always has been and always will be. His changes after we scored cost us a win against Aberdeen and we failed to score against a poor Hibs defence whilst only creating a couple of clear chances. 
We are just back in the league, so what we know everything about it. 
Drawing home games against the teams we need to get ahead of will not achieve anything. 
So you can’t back up your meme with any actual proof?

Edited September 14, 2021 by Pasquale for King

[Jim Panzee]

16 minutes ago, The Tackle said:

Both the anti Neilson Brigade and the Happy clappers are getting boring now. 

 

I'll admit i wanted Neilson gone after Brora but the start to this season has earned him time. This never ending argument is ruining this forum 

hard to disagree with this TBF

[Nelly Terraces]

8 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

When the whole the right guy was along the corridor chat was quoted on the press I was like “of course, how daft could I have been not to realise”. 😂😂

 

 

Haha. That genuinely made me laugh there fella. Least you're man enough to admit you may've called it incorrect on that one.👍 Wish a few more people would confess they get things wrong occasionally, it takes the bigger person to admit the fact they do, and leads to a more adult debate.

 

As for Robbie, if you're backing him then I sincerely hope you've called it right & not on here in a couple of years going 'what was I thinking!'

[Pasquale for King]

20 minutes ago, Homme said:

 

You're looking at previous positions for some players and not the position they are now being asked to do 

Who? The wing backs are still defenders, when we don’t have the hall they drop back into a five. Both midfielders defend first and foremost. In the open goal interview he spoke about how they have to get about the pitch and defend, nothing about attacking. 
https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hearts/hearts-boss-robbie-neilson-reveals-what-is-key-to-making-the-3-4-3-work-3381803

[Bazzas right boot]

19 minutes ago, merrymac said:

WE might not only end up with preconceived subs but agreeing the type of defence with the opposition before the start😂

 

Makes sense. 

Maybe agree " nae blooters" at the start as well. 

[GinRummy]

3 minutes ago, Nelly Terraces said:

Haha. That genuinely made me laugh there fella. Least you're man enough to admit you may've called it incorrect on that one.👍 Wish a few more people would confess they get things wrong occasionally, it takes the bigger person to admit the fact they do, and leads to a more adult debate.

 

As for Robbie, if you're backing him then I sincerely hope you've called it right & not on here in a couple of years going 'what was I thinking!'

👍🏻 On the fence with Robbie. Good start this season though and the players he has at his disposal certainly gives him a head start. 
 

i’m mostly enjoying watching us play right now. Which is the first time in a while. That’ll do me for now. 

[Pasquale for King]

24 minutes ago, DS98 said:

But of a strange question. I’ve never seen a team play the same formation every single game in a season for about 20 years. 
 

However, Chelsea won the league under Conte with a very similar system. Moses and Alonso as wingbacks. 
 

Same team also just won the Champions League in May. Different manager, same system. 
 

(Btw I’m a fan of the system, not the personnel)

I don’t think Jorginho is a defensive player, deep as he plays. 
Conte played a 532 as he did last season to win the league, his third different team to do so. Again though it wasn’t 8 defensive players, two midfielders broke forward. 
That’s why I said 5 as there’s bound to be a couple. Man City had the best defence in England last season, as did Rangers up here. You don’t need to play 8 defensive players to have a good defence. 

[merrymac]

4 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

No need, he never put 8 defensive players on any pitch in any match. 
Glad to see you admit he’s cautious, he always has been and always will be. His changes after we scored cost us a win against Aberdeen and we failed to score against a poor Hibs defence whilst only creating a couple of clear chances. 
We are just back in the league, so what we know everything about it. 
Drawing home games against the teams we need to get ahead of will not achieve anything. 
So you can’t back up your meme with any actual proof?

Really not as fussed about it as you seem to be.

Countless managers have built great teams on a solid defence, without specifying an exact number, and i could probably prove that Sir Alex said it, you chose to relate it to 8 (subjective) defensive players.

I am not a Robbie fan and would have had him gone after the results last season, however i can appreciate that the team and players have improved since last season. If you want to be pedantic knowing everything about the league is not the same as actually playing in it, and we have a fair number of new players still trying to settle in and gain full fitness. A large % of fans are surely happy with the position we are in, and if our worst results are draws, then we have nothing to worry about. 

[merrymac]

7 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

Makes sense. 

Maybe agree " nae blooters" at the start as well. 

Like it, but what would  Hibs do then, Boyle would have nothing to chase😂

[Pasquale for King]

5 minutes ago, merrymac said:

Really not as fussed about it as you seem to be.

Countless managers have built great teams on a solid defence, without specifying an exact number, and i could probably prove that Sir Alex said it, you chose to relate it to 8 (subjective) defensive players.

I am not a Robbie fan and would have had him gone after the results last season, however i can appreciate that the team and players have improved since last season. If you want to be pedantic knowing everything about the league is not the same as actually playing in it, and we have a fair number of new players still trying to settle in and gain full fitness. A large % of fans are surely happy with the position we are in, and if our worst results are draws, then we have nothing to worry about. 

All the teams are facing the same issues though, draws at home will no be good enough to get us where we want to be. Scoring more goals will.
 Having a good defence and being defensive are different things, when we do go to a back four with the players he’s playing we give up chances. 
Changes need to be made. 

Edited September 14, 2021 by Pasquale for King

[Nelly Terraces]

2 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

👍🏻 On the fence with Robbie. Good start this season though and the players he has at his disposal certainly gives him a head start. 
 

i’m mostly enjoying watching us play right now. Which is the first time in a while. That’ll do me for now. 

That's kinda where I am with him as well, he's certainly got a decent enough squad (on paper the best we've had in a while) to work with now so it's all down to him, he's no excuses.

 

Like, I think, most of us, I was a wee bit disappointed with Sundays result but in hindsight we did look the part for good spells, and our squad is really just coming together whereas theirs has been playing together a while, I'm hopeful it'll be a different story once the guys start to gel. And agree, it doesn't feel a chore to be watching Hearts right now which is a huge plus.

[GinRummy]

7 minutes ago, Nelly Terraces said:

That's kinda where I am with him as well, he's certainly got a decent enough squad (on paper the best we've had in a while) to work with now so it's all down to him, he's no excuses.

 

Like, I think, most of us, I was a wee bit disappointed with Sundays result but in hindsight we did look the part for good spells, and our squad is really just coming together whereas theirs has been playing together a while, I'm hopeful it'll be a different story once the guys start to gel. And agree, it doesn't feel a chore to be watching Hearts right now which is a huge plus.

Agree totally. A wee bit annoyed by Sunday. The subs and timing of the subs were a bit counter productive but it’s been a good start and on to the next game. Every game feels huge right now and something to look forward to. 

[Bazzas right boot]

17 minutes ago, merrymac said:

Like it, but what would  Hibs do then, Boyle would have nothing to chase😂

 

🤣🤣

[jambonian]

1 hour ago, GinRummy said:

You’ve got me thinking if I’m wrong now. I’m fairly sure we played a back 4 when Clare played full back. 

Always thought, and said numerous times on here, that Clare was not good enough defensively to play wing-back. His strength was getting forward and supporting midfield to front. Similar to when Mitchell was here, great first season getting forward, hopeless at left wing-back in his second spell.  Clare struggled to get back a lot of the time and was rash in tackles giving away numerous free kicks. It happened plenty times, the last one that sticks in the mind... in one of his last games, 1-0 up against Aberdeen and he brought their player down, got sent off and they scored from the free kick. Not his fault if he's played out of his natural position but, that's apparently modern football for you.

[Taffin]

2 minutes ago, jambonian said:

Always thought, and said numerous times on here, that Clare was not good enough defensively to play wing-back. His strength was getting forward and supporting midfield to front. Similar to when Mitchell was here, great first season getting forward, hopeless at left wing-back in his second spell.  Clare struggled to get back a lot of the time and was rash in tackles giving away numerous free kicks. It happened plenty times, the last one that sticks in the mind... in one of his last games, 1-0 up against Aberdeen and he brought their player down, got sent off and they scored from the free kick. Not his fault if he's played out of his natural position but, that's apparently modern football for you.

 

That's largely the point of a wing back. Clare and Mitchell would actually improve us currently imo deployed in those roles.

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

9 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

Agree totally. A wee bit annoyed by Sunday. The subs and timing of the subs were a bit counter productive but it’s been a good start and on to the next game. Every game feels huge right now and something to look forward to. 

Dont think they were, all 3 players were past their best in the match for one reason or another, though I may have taken on Gnanduillet before McKay. Bit of self gratification in bringing McKay on Gnanduillet would have given them a different problem I think

[jambonian]

1 minute ago, Taffin said:

 

That's largely the point of a wing back. Clare and Mitchell would actually improve us currently imo deployed in those roles.

Yes, but i meant as a right midfielder-come-winger type and leaving a right-back to do the defending. I remember when Levein was asked why young MacDonald wasn't getting many chances and his reply was "he needs to learn to defend" which i thought strange. He's an attacker. In his playing days his own ex-team-mate John Colquhoun never had to worry about defending, he left it to Walter Kidd. And they wonder why there are fewer flair players in the Scottish game these days? They don't get that luxury or freedom to create anymore.