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Marvin Bartley on Newsnight


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JimmyCant

Just been on national TV citing two separate cases of racism during Edinburgh derby matches, presumably by Hearts fans. 

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Heart of Darkness

I'll be in first with a bit whatabootery! But what did happen to the auld Hibs guy directing racist slurs live on TV?

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viva hate

Saw that, embarrassing that Tynecastle is cited. Marvin Bartley speaks well on the issue 

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2 minutes ago, JimmyCant said:

Just been on national TV citing two separate cases of racism during Edinburgh derby matches, presumably by Hearts fans. 

 

Jolly nice of him to cite Hearts supporters as the racists. I am surprised that he did not come out and applaud the Old Firm and all other Scottish clubs for being really nice to him whenever he played  in games against them.

 

Perhaps having played for Hibs he is agenda driven

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JimmyCant
Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, 7628mm said:

 

Jolly nice of him to cite Hearts supporters as the racists. I am surprised that he did not come out and applaud the Old Firm and all other Scottish clubs for being really nice to him whenever he played  in games against them.

 

Perhaps having played for Hibs he is agenda driven

I’m not defending anyone he was talking about by the way, but you just knew when he came on he was going to cite us as being the two worst cases off the top of his head. Selective finger pointing like this does nothing to improve things, especially since the two incidents are now ‘cold cases’ and it’s the first public statement he’s made about either of the incidents .

 

He speaks well and he actually made some decent points after he got his agenda led dig in

Edited by JimmyCant
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davieholt
2 minutes ago, 7628mm said:

 

Jolly nice of him to cite Hearts supporters as the racists. I am surprised that he did not come out and applaud the Old Firm and all other Scottish clubs for being really nice to him whenever he played  in games against them.

 

Perhaps having played for Hibs he is agenda driven


im afraid Hearts fans are no different from others when it comes to racism. We do have previous going all the way back to the treatment of Mark Walters. Even some of our own players have had abuse hurled at them for no reason other than their skin tone. 
 

it’s getting better but we’re not out of the woods yet

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August Landmesser

Yep, I'll be taking Marvin Bartley's side on this one. Whether they were Hearts fans or randoms in the street, they're racist ***** and can get ****ed.

 

Talk of 'agendas' etc is mealy-mouthed point scoring, and is wildly out of order. 

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BackOfTheNet

If Bartley was asked a direct question and responded with Hearts that’s not surprising considering he played for our rivals for years (so the most intense matches were with us) and we played them often. So if he’s received racist abuse during a match the most likely candidate for that abuse will undoubtedly be opposition fans in the most toxic of atmospheres he’s played in, so it can’t be a surprise that he’d say us.

 

He’s not saying all Hearts fans are like that. But if he’s been asked a direct question and you think his answer was dishonest or agenda driven and you have more of a problem with him than the allegation of racism coming from elements of our support then you’re part of the problem.

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JimmyCant
Posted (edited)
19 minutes ago, BackOfTheNet said:

If Bartley was asked a direct question and responded with Hearts that’s not surprising considering he played for our rivals for years (so the most intense matches were with us) and we played them often. So if he’s received racist abuse during a match the most likely candidate for that abuse will undoubtedly be opposition fans in the most toxic of atmospheres he’s played in, so it can’t be a surprise that he’d say us.

 

He’s not saying all Hearts fans are like that. But if he’s been asked a direct question and you think his answer was dishonest or agenda driven and you have more of a problem with him than the allegation of racism coming from elements of our support then you’re part of the problem.

I agree with all that. I just don’t think singling out one club does the issue any favours. It disguises the bigger picture and offers no solution.

 

The social media companies and lack of government action have led to this apparent racist pandemic. It’s virtually all online and mostly anonymous and untraceable.

 

Two effective things that could be done IMO

 

1. licence Sim Cards. I.e.You don’t get one with out ID and you have to register it. If your found in possession of an unlicensed SIM card from an illegal source that’s an offence. That tackles a lot more things other than online racist abuse. Stalking and scamming and drug dealing for starters.

 

2. The SM big hitters making millions ought to have the technology now to identify trace and remove these comments as soon as they are made. They can instantly track and remove copyright abuse having come under huge pressure to do so by the music industry. Why not racial abuse? 
 

A very doable combination of traceable SIM cards and aggressive action by the SM big hitters would fix a lot of this pretty quickly.

Edited by JimmyCant
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BackOfTheNet
1 minute ago, JimmyCant said:

I agree with all that. I just don’t think singling out one club does the issue any favours. It disguises the bigger picture and offers no solution.

 

The social media companies and lack of government action have led to this apparent racist pandemic. It’s virtually all online and mostly anonymous and untraceable.

 

Two effective things that could be done IMO

 

1. licence Sim Cards. I.e.You don’t get one with out ID and you have to register it. If your found in possession of an unlicensed SIM card from an illegal source that’s an offence. That tackles a lot more things other than online racist abuse. Stalking and drug dealing for starters.

 

2. The SM big hitters making millions ought to have the technology now to identify trace and remove these comments as soon as they are made. They can instantly track and remove copyright abuse. Why not racial abuse? 
 

A very doable combination of traceable SIM cards and aggressive action by the SM big hitters would fix a lot of this pretty quickly.


Interesting ideas. As for the singling out, it seems he was asked a direct question and answered. He didn’t go on to talk specifically about Hearts. I’ve listened to a podcast he spoke on previously where he talked about he and some teammates when down south were treated with racial profiling at a Pizza Hut, as he was talking about racism in general. But if he’s being asked specifically about racism directed to him during a game - when on a show to talk about racism in football - I wouldn’t expect him to say “there are certain instances, but I won’t name the clubs” I would expect him to cite examples, which he did.

 

I won’t discuss your other points/suggestions too much as there’s no easy fix and it would be long conversation which can easily go away from the topic of racism and into things like social engineering, identity theft risks and privacy rights. All I will say though is people need to realise behind these anonymous accounts sending the abuse are real people, and they’re not just some random loner in a one bedroom flat that keeps himself to himself, they are your neighbours, your co-workers, family members, and yes - supporters of the club we support. We need to call things out when we see them, ironically it’s a lot easier to do that online than it is to a boozed up bellend at a game looking to fight anyone that disagrees with them.

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Hope he washed that finger before pointing it.

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1971fozzy

To be fair I think he always comes across well. No doubting we have a few arseholes , as other clubs do. Sooner racism is stamped out the better. It’s disgusting and if anyone is found to be racist I’d fully support lifetime bans. It’s exactly what the pond life deserve at the very least.

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Savage Vince
1 hour ago, davieholt said:


im afraid Hearts fans are no different from others when it comes to racism. We do have previous going all the way back to the treatment of Mark Walters. Even some of our own players have had abuse hurled at them for no reason other than their skin tone. 
 

it’s getting better but we’re not out of the woods yet

 

Anyone suggesting that this isn't exactly where we are with regard to this issue is either kidding themselves on or doesn't attend many matches or follow Hearts-related posts on social media. 

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TypoonJambo
7 hours ago, Shanks said:

He would know all about abuse tbf

Definitely got his finger on the pulse of the issue. 

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GinRummy

I find it quite strange that Bartley continues to be given a platform by the media. Would a racist be given a platform to discuss threatening women and mysoginy?

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Ainsley Harriott

There was an article in bbc news about women who fall victim to stalking. He could have provided some real insights on that.

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Kiwidoug

If I didnt like JJ because he was white, would that make me a racist?

 

I suppose it would but just to complete the picture, i am embarassingly white.  What if I was black?

While I deplore racism, I find it all a bit one-sided.  The only racism I have ever experienced personally has bern directed at me from Maori people.

 

Just saying.

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schillaci

If we didn't have an issue, we would be justified in our outrage about being cited.

 

We do have an issue, so we should take the heat. 

 

I once called somebody out for racist abuse at Tynecastle. I've never had the courage to do it again, partly because nobody backed me up.

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A_A wehatethehibs
1 minute ago, schillaci said:

If we didn't have an issue, we would be justified in our outrage about being cited.

 

We do have an issue, so we should take the heat. 

 

I once called somebody out for racist abuse at Tynecastle. I've never had the courage to do it again, partly because nobody backed me up.

 

There are racist neds at every football club - fact. So don't try and talk about our club as some unique case.

 

Racist abuse of Uche at ER - https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/hibs-probe-alleged-racist-abuse-20155936

 

Racist abuse of Clevid at ER - https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/scottish/hearts-vs-hibernian-clevid-dikamona-racism-television-abuse-scottish-premiership-a8704051.html 

 

 

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The Treasurer
8 minutes ago, schillaci said:

If we didn't have an issue, we would be justified in our outrage about being cited.

 

We do have an issue, so we should take the heat. 

 

I once called somebody out for racist abuse at Tynecastle. I've never had the courage to do it again, partly because nobody backed me up.

Of course we still have a problem, only a fool would say otherwise.

It's the fact that we are constantly singled out that people have a problem with. You only need to look back at the BBC "in depth" look at sectarianism in Scottish football that focused on a match at Tynecastle v sellik that was so one sided it could have been edited at parkhead

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Brick Tamland

Absolutely no place for racism at all, anywhere, ever.  I’ll take what Bartley says with a large pinch of salt though, and I’m not sure he should be getting the media coverage he gets based on his past which is what the Hearts fans really slaughtered him for, a bit like when Lennon was saying it was because he was Irish/Catholic when in truth it was because he was a **** 
 

“ Hibs player Marvin Bartley convicted of threats charge. 

Hibs player Marvin Bartley has been convicted of threatening to ruin the life of a girl he was seeing after she told his girlfriend about them.

The English midfielder made unwanted phone calls and threats to Ainsley McRae after she told his girlfriend of over five years about their relationship.

Paisley Sheriff Court heard how Bartley met Miss McRae, 25, through Facebook and the pair began chatting before meeting up in person.

Matters came to a head on January 13 this year when Bartley’s long-term girlfriend noticed a message from Miss McRae on Facebook which revealed she and Bartley had been meeting up and messaging each other.

Bartley, 31, told the court he ducked out of Hibs’ training to phone Miss McRae, 25 before driving to Glasgow once the training session was over to confront her. He turned up at her workplace, in Glasgow city centre, but was told she was not there.

He then told her in an “angry” and “aggressive” phone call he would try and ruin her life before adding: “Protect the people around you.”

He shouted and swore at Miss McCrae, of East Kilbride, leaving her so scared that she was in floods of tears and was shaking so much her teeth were “chattering,” court heard.

Miss Mcrae said he told her he’d tell his girlfriend about them but did not - prompting her to message his girlfriend to break the news as “she had a right to know.”

Yesterday, Bartley gave evidence, saying he and his long term girlfriend “were on a break” at the time he met Miss McRae.

He said he told Miss McRae he had a girlfriend, and only ever met her twice before going to her work and phoning her a few times on the day in question.

He described himself as “a polite young gentleman” and denied he was “angry” with her for telling his girlfriend about them, adding: “I was disappointed.”

But Sheriff Seith Ireland convicted him of breaking Section 38(1) of the Criminal Justice and Licensing (Scotland) Act 2010 by behaving in a manner which would be likely to cause a reasonable person to suffer fear or alarm.

He said: “I find, beyond reasonable doubt, the accused is guilty of this offence. In my view Mr Bartley can’t be described as a credible and reliable witness.”
 

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gorgie rd eh11

 

I find it a bit weird that Hearts seem to be the go to scapegoats when it comes to racism.

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21 minutes ago, Kiwidoug said:

If I didnt like JJ because he was white, would that make me a racist?

 

I suppose it would but just to complete the picture, i am embarassingly white.  What if I was black?

While I deplore racism, I find it all a bit one-sided.  The only racism I have ever experienced personally has bern directed at me from Maori people.

 

Just saying.

Bloody hell, could say more but would end up banned

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GinRummy
26 minutes ago, schillaci said:

If we didn't have an issue, we would be justified in our outrage about being cited.

 

We do have an issue, so we should take the heat. 

 

I once called somebody out for racist abuse at Tynecastle. I've never had the courage to do it again, partly because nobody backed me up.

There’s no doubt we have an issue but that doesn’t mean confirmed liar Bartley is telling the truth. 

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20 minutes ago, A_A wehatethehibs said:

 

There are racist neds at every football club - fact. So don't try and talk about our club as some unique case.

 

Racist abuse of Uche at ER - https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/hibs-probe-alleged-racist-abuse-20155936

 

Racist abuse of Clevid at ER - https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/scottish/hearts-vs-hibernian-clevid-dikamona-racism-television-abuse-scottish-premiership-a8704051.html 

 

 

I don't think he was trying to say our club was unique. 
 

The fact Hearts players have been racially abused at other grounds doesn't make it ok for Hearts Supporters to racially abuse opposition players. 

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whanganui jambo
8 hours ago, jonesy said:

Hope he washed that finger before pointing it.

😆

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Gordon Ramsay
16 minutes ago, Brick Tamland said:

Absolutely no place for racism at all, anywhere, ever.  I’ll take what Bartley says with a large pinch of salt though, and I’m not sure he should be getting the media coverage he gets based on his past which is what the Hearts fans really slaughtered him for, a bit like when Lennon was saying it was because he was Irish/Catholic when in truth it was because he was a **** 
 

“ Hibs player Marvin Bartley convicted of threats charge. 

Hibs player Marvin Bartley has been convicted of threatening to ruin the life of a girl he was seeing after she told his girlfriend about them.

The English midfielder made unwanted phone calls and threats to Ainsley McRae after she told his girlfriend of over five years about their relationship.

Paisley Sheriff Court heard how Bartley met Miss McRae, 25, through Facebook and the pair began chatting before meeting up in person.

Matters came to a head on January 13 this year when Bartley’s long-term girlfriend noticed a message from Miss McRae on Facebook which revealed she and Bartley had been meeting up and messaging each other.

Bartley, 31, told the court he ducked out of Hibs’ training to phone Miss McRae, 25 before driving to Glasgow once the training session was over to confront her. He turned up at her workplace, in Glasgow city centre, but was told she was not there.

He then told her in an “angry” and “aggressive” phone call he would try and ruin her life before adding: “Protect the people around you.”

He shouted and swore at Miss McCrae, of East Kilbride, leaving her so scared that she was in floods of tears and was shaking so much her teeth were “chattering,” court heard.

Miss Mcrae said he told her he’d tell his girlfriend about them but did not - prompting her to message his girlfriend to break the news as “she had a right to know.”

Yesterday, Bartley gave evidence, saying he and his long term girlfriend “were on a break” at the time he met Miss McRae.

He said he told Miss McRae he had a girlfriend, and only ever met her twice before going to her work and phoning her a few times on the day in question.

He described himself as “a polite young gentleman” and denied he was “angry” with her for telling his girlfriend about them, adding: “I was disappointed.”

But Sheriff Seith Ireland convicted him of breaking Section 38(1) of the Criminal Justice and Licensing (Scotland) Act 2010 by behaving in a manner which would be likely to cause a reasonable person to suffer fear or alarm.

He said: “I find, beyond reasonable doubt, the accused is guilty of this offence. In my view Mr Bartley can’t be described as a credible and reliable witness.”
 

 

Whislt I don't doubt he's received racist abuse in his career the guy is a creep and shouldn't be on TV preaching to folk. 

 

Racism is unacceptable but so is threatening woman like that. 

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A_A wehatethehibs
2 minutes ago, TurboT said:

I don't think he was trying to say our club was unique. 
 

The fact Hearts players have been racially abused at other grounds doesn't make it ok for Hearts Supporters to racially abuse opposition players. 

 

Oh right then, so Bartley did mention the Hearts players who got racially abused at Easter Road? 

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Just now, A_A wehatethehibs said:

 

Oh right then, so Bartley did mention the Hearts players who got racially abused at Easter Road? 

I've no idea, I didn't watch the program. 
 

 

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fast_blood
6 minutes ago, A_A wehatethehibs said:

 

Oh right then, so Bartley did mention the Hearts players who got racially abused at Easter Road? 

 

Pretty certain he'd only be in a position to talk about his own experiences. Stop being so defensive. Like you say it happens at every football ground but that does not excuse it. Some of our fans have been accused of acting in a racist manner towards our own team. This also is not unique to our club. 

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John Findlay

This interview will blowover, racism won't. Its no surprise that Marvin Bartley probably got it worse at both ER and Tynecastle whilst wearing a Hibs strip against Hearts, in the same way Uche Ikpeazu and Clevid Dikomona got it worse at both ER and Tynecastle whilst playing Hibs wearing a Hearts strip. No football supporters of any club can take the moral high ground hear. All clubs have supporters who have shouted racial abuse either in the heat of the moment or pre- meditated. The bottom line is its wrong pure and simple. 

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BackOfTheNet

Jesus, Hearts don’t get “singled out” on this issue. You only think that because - as a Hearts fan - you are made aware of it more. Aberdeen fans probably don’t have a clue what Bartley has said about us, or Motherwell fans don’t have a clue what Isma has said about us. But I’m sure they are aware of what people have said about their own fans that we have no clue about. It happens everywhere, so pointing out whatabouttery only helps the people being knuckledragging troglodytes.

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A_A wehatethehibs
6 minutes ago, TurboT said:

I've no idea, I didn't watch the program. 
 

 

 

Well that's my entire point. I won't have Hearts pulled out as some kind of example club, when there's examples at EVERY club

 

Celtic fan racist abuse of Morelos - Alfredo Morelos ‘subjected to racist abuse by Celtic fans’, claim Rangers | The Scotsman 

 

Rangers fan racist - Rangers fan who 'chanted I'd rather be a P*** than a Tim' nicked after pic appeal (thescottishsun.co.uk)

 

Aberdeen fan Scott sinclair = Shameful and embarrassing: Aberdeen boss Derek McInnes slams racist abuse directed at Celtic's Sinclair - Evening Express

 

We've seen Hibs PLAYERS sing racist songs about Rudi Skacel. 

 

It is a societal problem and seeing the odd player come out and have a pop at his opposition derby rivals, is not going to help it because it comes across as a partizan, biased attack which, if Bartley has not mentioned the abuse that's gone the other direction at Easter Road, is exactly what it is, biased, anti-Hearts trying to single Hearts out. What is needed is for ALL the major clubs to make a serious event of it. With all clubs representatives out at Hampden, talking about the new cross-club anti racism initiative where players will be identifying fans to the police and the police WILL be acting, launching the fans from the ground and issuing life time bans and to be honest, jail time. Get more aggressive and make public examples of any perpetrators, get their name plastered everywhere as a Racist. Why are these perpetrators not NAMED AND SHAMED in the articles? And the same goes for social media abuse as well. 

 

As long as it's individual tit for tat about club A or club B - 0 progress made. 

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stuart500

Racists are arseholes.

 

Bartley is good at fingering arseholes.

 

Unfortunately for him the message is diluted because he's been fingered by the law as also being an arsehole.

 

He's the wrong person to preach to others about bad behaviour which is a shame because racism needs to stop.

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8 minutes ago, stuart500 said:

Racists are arseholes.

 

Bartley is good at fingering arseholes.

 

Unfortunately for him the message is diluted because he's been fingered by the law as also being an arsehole.

 

He's the wrong person to preach to others about bad behaviour which is a shame because racism needs to stop.

Fingered by the law translated means convicted of threatening behaviour.

Not to say that he can’t comment on racism of course but you’re right, that will pop up every time he pops up !

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16 minutes ago, BackOfTheNet said:

Jesus, Hearts don’t get “singled out” on this issue. You only think that because - as a Hearts fan - you are made aware of it more. Aberdeen fans probably don’t have a clue what Bartley has said about us, or Motherwell fans don’t have a clue what Isma has said about us. But I’m sure they are aware of what people have said about their own fans that we have no clue about. It happens everywhere, so pointing out whatabouttery only helps the people being knuckledragging troglodytes.

If it was on national TV I think fans of whatever persuasion would be aware of it, no ?

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This weeks high horse for people to jump on and have a go at the club ? 
 

Racism is a on going society problem. Next to nothing ours or any other club can do to eradicate it. Ban one then the next when rolls into his/her place. 
 

Our club does not have a problem, society does. 

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Ron Burgundy
2 minutes ago, Dazo said:

This weeks high horse for people to jump on and have a go at the club ? 
 

Racism is a on going society problem. Next to nothing ours or any other club can do to eradicate it. Ban one then the next when rolls into his/her place. 
 

Our club does not have a problem, society does. 

Yip.

 

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BackOfTheNet
20 minutes ago, Boab said:

If it was on national TV I think fans of whatever persuasion would be aware of it, no ?


Would you have known he was on there if it wasn’t for this thread? Unless you’re saying Newsnight, a show I suspect majority of football fans don’t watch, has an agenda against us as a club?

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30 minutes ago, A_A wehatethehibs said:

 

Well that's my entire point. I won't have Hearts pulled out as some kind of example club, when there's examples at EVERY club

 

Celtic fan racist abuse of Morelos - Alfredo Morelos ‘subjected to racist abuse by Celtic fans’, claim Rangers | The Scotsman 

 

Rangers fan racist - Rangers fan who 'chanted I'd rather be a P*** than a Tim' nicked after pic appeal (thescottishsun.co.uk)

 

Aberdeen fan Scott sinclair = Shameful and embarrassing: Aberdeen boss Derek McInnes slams racist abuse directed at Celtic's Sinclair - Evening Express

 

We've seen Hibs PLAYERS sing racist songs about Rudi Skacel. 

 

It is a societal problem and seeing the odd player come out and have a pop at his opposition derby rivals, is not going to help it because it comes across as a partizan, biased attack which, if Bartley has not mentioned the abuse that's gone the other direction at Easter Road, is exactly what it is, biased, anti-Hearts trying to single Hearts out. What is needed is for ALL the major clubs to make a serious event of it. With all clubs representatives out at Hampden, talking about the new cross-club anti racism initiative where players will be identifying fans to the police and the police WILL be acting, launching the fans from the ground and issuing life time bans and to be honest, jail time. Get more aggressive and make public examples of any perpetrators, get their name plastered everywhere as a Racist. Why are these perpetrators not NAMED AND SHAMED in the articles? And the same goes for social media abuse as well. 

 

As long as it's individual tit for tat about club A or club B - 0 progress made. 

 

The fact that other clubs have racists amongst their support is irrelevant until we get our own house in order.  

 

I recall arguing with a Celtic supporter about Sectarianism and the argument she gave me was that although Celtic sing / shout sectarian abuse, they aren't as bad as Rangers.  

 

 

 

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5 minutes ago, BackOfTheNet said:


Would you have known he was on there if it wasn’t for this thread? Unless you’re saying Newsnight, a show I suspect majority of football fans don’t watch, has an agenda against us as a club?

You looking for an argument ? 😂

I haven’t a scooby how many football fans watch Newsnight !

I don’t think you do either. It’s out there now, regardless of where it was broadcast. People will be aware of it.

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Nookie Bear
5 minutes ago, TurboT said:

 

The fact that other clubs have racists amongst their support is irrelevant until we get our own house in order.  

 

I recall arguing with a Celtic supporter about Sectarianism and the argument she gave me was that although Celtic sing / shout sectarian abuse, they aren't as bad as Rangers.  

 

 

 

 

We all do that tbf

 

It would be far more relevant up here to to see Scottish clubs taking a knee, or similar, against sectarianism.

 

 

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Nookie Bear
8 minutes ago, BackOfTheNet said:


Would you have known he was on there if it wasn’t for this thread? Unless you’re saying Newsnight, a show I suspect majority of football fans don’t watch, has an agenda against us as a club?

 

How many of thsoe who sent abusive social media messages watch Newsnight?

 

It's just preaching to the converted. Until the social media companies are forced by law to deal with the problem they have created then it is just an echo chamber.

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Deevers

I would reckon every black player has received racial abuse at some stage in their career. I honestly don’t know why Bartley was rolled out to tell us that. We’ve all seen it and heard it at some stage.  No club has a monopoly on piety with regard to this. 21st century and it’s time this behaviour was ended once and for all - from whoever or whatever group it comes from.

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He was on the radio earlier yesterday and mentioned Tynecastle, but it was a Hibs supporter he mentioned being the abuser, who was subsequently banned. I haven't seen this particular interview but perhaps it's the same example. He comes across well on this issue imo. Most would agree if he wasn't Hibs, I'm sure. 

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BackOfTheNet
27 minutes ago, Boab said:

You looking for an argument ? 😂

I haven’t a scooby how many football fans watch Newsnight !

I don’t think you do either. It’s out there now, regardless of where it was broadcast. People will be aware of it.


Not in the slightest. I’m just saying reacting to accusations of racism against elements of our support with anything other than a need to get our house in order isn’t right. Making excuses or whatabouttery (even if points about other clubs are valid) helps no one. We can’t sort out society, but we can call things out when we see it or are made aware of it, rather than sweeping it under the carpet by saying there’s only a minority and it’s not really an issue we can do anything about.

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GinRummy
3 minutes ago, BackOfTheNet said:


Not in the slightest. I’m just saying reacting to accusations of racism against elements of our support with anything other than a need to get our house in order isn’t right. Making excuses or whatabouttery (even if points about other clubs are valid) helps no one. We can’t sort out society, but we can call things out when we see it or are made aware of it, rather than sweeping it under the carpet by saying there’s only a minority and it’s not really an issue we can do anything about.

You’re missing out entirely who made the accusations. We have a problem with racism, Marvin Bartley has a problem with both lying and abusing women. Why should anyone pay him any attention. 

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