davemclaren Posted June 27, 2021 Share Posted June 27, 2021 Just now, Francis Albert said: Four wins when they were not called pre-season. Matcheds or beats our record in any other competition. The, early or otherwise, group sections aren’t where our problems in winning it are, typically. 😄 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted June 27, 2021 Share Posted June 27, 2021 Just now, davemclaren said: The, early or otherwise, group sections aren’t where our problems in winning it are, typically. 😄 But when we demote the early or group sections to "pre-season" as an excuse for not progressing to later stages we reduce our chances of winning the thing. The simple fact is they are not "pre-season". They are part of the season. Amazed this is even a debate! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davemclaren Posted June 27, 2021 Share Posted June 27, 2021 2 minutes ago, Francis Albert said: But when we demote the early or group sections to "pre-season" as an excuse for not progressing to later stages we reduce our chances of winning the thing. The simple fact is they are not "pre-season". They are part of the season. Amazed this is even a debate! I’m not quite sure what the debate is either but they do start pre league season. However, I think we’ve only failed to get out of the groups once since they were re-introduced, so not sure how anyone has made that an excuse. The early games ( before the league season starts ) are seldom the reason we get knocked out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ToqueJambo Posted June 27, 2021 Share Posted June 27, 2021 (edited) 5 minutes ago, davemclaren said: I’m not quite sure what the debate is either but they do start pre league season. However, I think we’ve only failed to get out of the groups once since they were re-introduced, so not sure how anyone has made that an excuse. The early games ( before the league season starts ) are seldom the reason we get knocked out. They set the tone though. Someone like Stendel would be forgiven poor performances in the group while qualifying. Neilson won't be. Even if he plays a team of kids for experience with an eye on the league and we still qualify, some folk will be on his back. He really needs to win and play well in every game in the group stages. He's really up against it in that respect as guaranteed our rivals in the Premiership won't sail through the group with the scintillating football and high scoring wins some seem to demand from Neilson to justify his position for next season. Edited June 27, 2021 by ToqueJambo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted June 27, 2021 Share Posted June 27, 2021 (edited) 6 minutes ago, davemclaren said: I’m not quite sure what the debate is either but they do start pre league season. However, I think we’ve only failed to get out of the groups once since they were re-introduced, so not sure how anyone has made that an excuse. The early games ( before the league season starts ) are seldom the reason we get knocked out. Fair enough. But they simply are not pre-season games. Edited June 27, 2021 by Francis Albert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davemclaren Posted June 27, 2021 Share Posted June 27, 2021 2 minutes ago, Francis Albert said: Fair enough. But they simply are not pre-season games. I can safely say they are certainly competitive matches we should be striving to win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted June 27, 2021 Share Posted June 27, 2021 2 minutes ago, davemclaren said: I can safely say they are certainly competitive matches we should be striving to win. And part of our season? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ToqueJambo Posted June 27, 2021 Share Posted June 27, 2021 13 minutes ago, Francis Albert said: But when we demote the early or group sections to "pre-season" as an excuse for not progressing to later stages we reduce our chances of winning the thing. The simple fact is they are not "pre-season". They are part of the season. Amazed this is even a debate! I like the introduction of the group stages as a competitive part of our pre-season - a chance to assess some players and improve fitness in a more challenging game. So long as we get through that should be all that matters. I'm not fussed by performances but unfortunately some are, which is unrealistic. I think it was Motherwell recently who sailed through the group stages hammering everyone but then started in the league badly. However, because of some opinion against Neilson he really needs wins and performances, even though in reality hammering everyone 6-0 in the group won't mean a thing once the league starts, aside from maybe raising expectations in some to an unrealistic level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ToqueJambo Posted June 27, 2021 Share Posted June 27, 2021 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Francis Albert said: And part of our season? They are part of our season 2021/22 but they take place during pre-season which is the common term for the tightly-managed and important period before the league starts. It's all just semantics. Edited June 27, 2021 by ToqueJambo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davemclaren Posted June 27, 2021 Share Posted June 27, 2021 9 minutes ago, Francis Albert said: And part of our season? According to the SPFL it is. ‘Season 2021/22 will begin with the group stage of the League Cup on the weekend of July 10/11, with further matchdays on July 13/14, July 17/18, July 20/21 and July 24/25.’ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted June 27, 2021 Share Posted June 27, 2021 (edited) 11 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said: They are part of our season 2021/22 but they take place during pre-season which is the common term for the tightly-managed and important period before the league starts. It's all just semantics. It really Isn't. The League Cup is part of the season. Just as the League and Scottish Cup are. And wtf does "tightly managed" and "important" mean? Edited June 27, 2021 by Francis Albert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted June 27, 2021 Share Posted June 27, 2021 2 minutes ago, davemclaren said: According to the SPFL it is. ‘Season 2021/22 will begin with the group stage of the League Cup on the weekend of July 10/11, with further matchdays on July 13/14, July 17/18, July 20/21 and July 24/25.’ Statement of the bleeding obvious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ToqueJambo Posted June 27, 2021 Share Posted June 27, 2021 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Francis Albert said: It really Isn't. The League Cup is part of the season. Just as the League and Scottish Cup are. And why does "tightly managed" and "important" mean? 🤣 Pre-season is a specific thing in football when specific things happen, whether you think it is or not. You know it is. You hear the term pre-season every summer and you know exactly what it means. Teams could start their pre-season earlier to peak for the LC games I suppose but what about their hols! Personally I've always thought the whole pre-season thing is silly. Shouldn't highly paid footballers maintain a high level of fitness 365 days a year instead of, in Scotland anyhow, being allowed to go on holiday and do what they want for a few weeks meaning they need a pre-season? Maybe it's changed and they're a bit more professional year-round so they don't need to run up and down sand dunes for a few weeks. Edited June 27, 2021 by ToqueJambo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davemclaren Posted June 27, 2021 Share Posted June 27, 2021 2 minutes ago, Francis Albert said: Statement of the bleeding obvious. I can’t use my season ticket for the matches though. 😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ToqueJambo Posted June 27, 2021 Share Posted June 27, 2021 Just now, davemclaren said: I can’t use my season ticket for the matches though. 😂 Maybe we should agree on them being pre-season ticket games and be done with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted June 27, 2021 Share Posted June 27, 2021 Basically I see the excuses for any underperforming in the LC group stages getting in early. Why otherwise claim they are not part of the season? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted June 27, 2021 Share Posted June 27, 2021 10 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said: 🤣 Pre-season is a specific thing in football when specific things happen, whether you think it is or not. You know it is. You hear the term pre-season every summer and you know exactly what it means. Teams could start their pre-season earlier to peak for the LC games I suppose but what about their hols! Personally I've always thought the whole pre-season thing is silly. Shouldn't highly paid footballers maintain a high level of fitness 365 days a year instead of, in Scotland anyhow, being allowed to go on holiday and do what they want for a few weeks meaning they need a pre-season? Maybe it's changed and they're a bit more professional year-round so they don't need to run up and down sand dunes for a few weeks. I have been following Hearts for nearly sixty years. And until recently I have never heard this argument that the initial League Cup games are pre-season. As for your first sentence ... "pre-season is a specific thing in football when specific things happen". Right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted June 27, 2021 Share Posted June 27, 2021 17 minutes ago, davemclaren said: I can’t use my season ticket for the matches though. 😂 So Scottish cup games are not part of the season either? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davemclaren Posted June 27, 2021 Share Posted June 27, 2021 5 minutes ago, Francis Albert said: So Scottish cup games are not part of the season either? Clearly not, or my season ticket would cover them. 🧐 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted June 27, 2021 Share Posted June 27, 2021 (edited) In 1954 we beat Dundee 3 -1 before 35000 at Tynie then Falkirk before 30000 at Tynie and then Celtic 3-2 at Tynie before 40000 before going on to win the League Cup. Now classed as just pre-season games apparently. Because they were before the League started. Edited June 27, 2021 by Francis Albert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted June 27, 2021 Share Posted June 27, 2021 (edited) ' Edited June 27, 2021 by Francis Albert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboAl Posted June 27, 2021 Share Posted June 27, 2021 1 hour ago, davemclaren said: Clearly not, or my season ticket would cover them. 🧐 I think your ST doesn't cover it for a different reason. STs, unless otherwise specified, only cover league matches where the home team receive all gate receipts. Cup games have a sharing formula. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ri Alban Posted June 28, 2021 Share Posted June 28, 2021 (edited) 6 hours ago, Francis Albert said: I have been following Hearts for nearly sixty years. And until recently I have never heard this argument that the initial League Cup games are pre-season. As for your first sentence ... "pre-season is a specific thing in football when specific things happen". Right. The season starts when competition starts. Whether we start with the league Cup, European Qualifiers or the League championship. But anything played before the league started used to be pre season. Maybe we'll get back to this soon. But at this point, we're shite. Edited June 28, 2021 by ri Alban Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colinmaroon Posted June 28, 2021 Share Posted June 28, 2021 And here was me, jumping in at the end to read about the game and it's all about replacing the Gregorian calendar with a JKB variant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Gilbert Wauchope Posted June 28, 2021 Share Posted June 28, 2021 18 minutes ago, colinmaroon said: And here was me, jumping in at the end to read about the game and it's all about replacing the Gregorian calendar with a JKB variant. Only on JKB could such a sterile argument extend over so many posts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davemclaren Posted June 28, 2021 Share Posted June 28, 2021 47 minutes ago, colinmaroon said: And here was me, jumping in at the end to read about the game and it's all about replacing the Gregorian calendar with a JKB variant. 😂😄 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasAndy Posted June 28, 2021 Share Posted June 28, 2021 Jeez jumped on here to see what the take was on our young players that played on saturday. Another thread stuck in a maze. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Burgundy Posted June 28, 2021 Share Posted June 28, 2021 A 6-0 thumping of a team like Rose is exactly what you would expect regardless of the team Hearts put out. More of the same please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dayman Posted June 28, 2021 Share Posted June 28, 2021 (edited) 13 hours ago, Stu_HMFC said: Spartans on Tuesday night at Ainslie Park £8 Adult £5 kid . Better going to watch Hearts pre season or not midweek than sitting in the house watching the Euros . And playing Civil Service at 6pm that day too. I've heard Robbie will be taking the Civil game and then heading over to watch the Spartans game. I imagine the Civil game will have more first teamers, but I may be wrong. Edited June 28, 2021 by Dayman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dayman Posted June 28, 2021 Share Posted June 28, 2021 3 minutes ago, Dayman said: And playing Civil Service at 6pm that day too. I've heard Robbie will be taking the Civil game and then heading over to watch the Spartans game. I imagine the Civil game will have more first teamers, but things may be wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu_HMFC Posted June 28, 2021 Share Posted June 28, 2021 48 minutes ago, Dayman said: And playing Civil Service at 6pm that day too. I've heard Robbie will be taking the Civil game and then heading over to watch the Spartans game. I imagine the Civil game will have more first teamers, but I may be wrong. Don't think Robbie took Linlithgow think it was Rankin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milky_26 Posted June 28, 2021 Share Posted June 28, 2021 3 minutes ago, Stu_HMFC said: Don't think Robbie took Linlithgow think it was Rankin RN might have been one of those having to self isolate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu_HMFC Posted June 28, 2021 Share Posted June 28, 2021 4 minutes ago, milky_26 said: RN might have been one of those having to self isolate Yeah I was thinking that. think if their is two games tomorrow the team will be split I think that was the idea for Friday v Berwick and Sat v the Rose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
upgotheheads Posted June 28, 2021 Share Posted June 28, 2021 Has anybody mentioned what kind of game Damour had? I'm not particularly hopeful but It would be great if he could turn out to be a useful player in the Premier league as a defensive midfielder/ball winner but further up the park than he played last time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadj Posted June 28, 2021 Share Posted June 28, 2021 4 hours ago, Andrew Gilbert Wauchope said: Only on JKB could such a sterile argument extend over so many posts. 🤣🤣 4 hours ago, colinmaroon said: And here was me, jumping in at the end to read about the game and it's all about replacing the Gregorian calendar with a JKB variant. 🤣🤣 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Brown Posted June 28, 2021 Share Posted June 28, 2021 14 hours ago, davemclaren said: Clearly not, or my season ticket would cover them. 🧐 Not had a ST for 3 or 4 seasons now. Cup ties were not part of it for a while now. Or Am I wrong? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davemclaren Posted June 28, 2021 Share Posted June 28, 2021 5 minutes ago, Tommy Brown said: Not had a ST for 3 or 4 seasons now. Cup ties were not part of it for a while now. Or Am I wrong? Not for about 25 years iirc. I wasn’t being entirely serious tbf. 😎 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Brown Posted June 28, 2021 Share Posted June 28, 2021 Certainly surprised me winning 6-0 against Linlithgow Rose. A team that have been one of the better junior sides of the past few decades. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newton51 Posted June 28, 2021 Share Posted June 28, 2021 Quality goal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davemclaren Posted June 28, 2021 Share Posted June 28, 2021 19 minutes ago, Newton51 said: Quality goal Nice hit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Gilbert Wauchope Posted June 28, 2021 Share Posted June 28, 2021 1 hour ago, sadj said: 🤣🤣 🤣🤣 39 minutes ago, davemclaren said: Not for about 25 years iirc. I wasn’t being entirely serious tbf. 😎 I did have a suspicion that one of you was on the wind-up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GinRummy Posted June 28, 2021 Share Posted June 28, 2021 3 hours ago, Newton51 said: Quality goal Lovely. Well done Finlay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwidoug Posted June 28, 2021 Share Posted June 28, 2021 When's our next glamour friendly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwidoug Posted June 28, 2021 Share Posted June 28, 2021 50 minutes ago, Kiwidoug said: When's our next glamour friendly? Doh. Checked the proper thread. All clear now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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