We have the best academy in Scotland.

[Sub4TiddlerMurray]

8 minutes ago, Smithee said:

Zanatta got more of a run than he deserved IMO, he's nowhere near good enough.

 

 

TBF I was saying the same thing about Henderson before Saturday 

[Unknown user]

Just now, Sub4TiddlerMurray said:

 

 

TBF I was saying the same thing about Henderson before Saturday 

 

I've always quite like Henderson myself but I didn't expect that performance either!

 

Dario's played more than a hundred games in the lower leagues now, it's hard to argue against that being his level.

[Sub4TiddlerMurray]

1 minute ago, Smithee said:

Dario's played more than a hundred games in the lower leagues now, it's hard to argue against that being his level.

 

100%

[A_A wehatethehibs]

Christ we’re really trawling through the obscure youth players now. ****ing Zanatta. What’s Gary Glen up to these days? The boy had ability. And what about Denis Prychynenko he could’ve been a player if we’d only had “trust and belief” in him! 

[R1874]

Mcdonald is definitely the one who deserved a chance but never got one 

 

I hope Smith gets games next year 

Edited April 12, 2021 by R1874

[Ron Burgundy]

24 minutes ago, A_A wehatethehibs said:

Christ we’re really trawling through the obscure youth players now. ****ing Zanatta. What’s Gary Glen up to these days? The boy had ability. And what about Denis Prychynenko he could’ve been a player if we’d only had “trust and belief” in him! 

He is a cup winning legend, wash your mouth out.

[A_A wehatethehibs]

3 minutes ago, Ron Burgundy said:

He is a cup winning legend, wash your mouth out.

Tbf he is playing in the Belgian premier these days. Could do a job? Get him and Scotty Rob back in. Winners 

[Glamorgan Jambo]

Can't get too excited about any of these players. Way too early to say anything about Doig.

 

Really pleased they have been able to make careers in football for themselves.

 

Especially pleased for Scott Robinson. Will be very interested to see how he gets on at Motherwell. Livi have a very well defined system that's been drilled into players successfully for years by Martindale. Not all of them have reached that level of performance when they moved on.

 

Great to see so many alumni contributing at Inverness under McCann. Brad McKay back in the team at centre half, Todorov now starting and scoring regulalry up front and McHattie now back involved in match day squads.

[jr ewing]

3 hours ago, A_A wehatethehibs said:

Christ we’re really trawling through the obscure youth players now. ****ing Zanatta. What’s Gary Glen up to these days? The boy had ability. And what about Denis Prychynenko he could’ve been a player if we’d only had “trust and belief” in him! 

Just proves that the Academy is a complete waste of time and money. 

[jambonian]

All i'll say about the Academy is that it costs more to run than it actually brings us in transfers. Need to work out if it's worth the expense. Loads of players been mentioned on this thread and barely a few quid amongst all of them. Still....at least it's saved other clubs paying for development. They haven't needed to when Hearts have done it for them.

Krr-chiiing!

[Bongo 1874]

Yeah every single player we let go wasn't good enough 👍. 

 

Every single player signed in place of them was far better than what we let go. 

 

The evidence to back this up and the academy is doing fantastic, we have played many youth team players this season. 

 

We don't have an experienced old squad it's based on youth players which was the plan, Ann budge Craig Levein and Robbie Neilson have far exceeded there expectations, so much so I suggest we get three statues for them outside Tynecastle. 

 

 

[jamboinglasgow]

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/scottish-premiership-oldest-squad-revealed-23901234

 

Thought this was an interesting article. They calculated the average of the average of each Premiership team this season and also the percentage of minutes played by players under the age of 21.

 

Kilmarnock were the oldest with 28.3, Rangers second with 28.1 while the youngest side is Hamilton with 24.6 followed by Celtic with 25.6.

 

When it comes to percentage of minutes played by players under the age of 21,  the team with the highest percentage is Hamilton with 12.9 %followed by Ross County with 10.8%. The lowest teams were Motherwell with 0.4% followed by Livingston on 0.9%

 

The interesting thing is seeing Motherwell so low. They have been lauded, rightfully over the last few seasons as a team who brings through young talent and even used as an example we should be following. But its curious to see this has not continued this season. I suspect Motherwells poor season may mean that their managers have been reluctant to bleed young talent, or it could be that there is others to come in but they are not ready to next season. But certainly curious.

[mscjambo]

2 minutes ago, jamboinglasgow said:

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/scottish-premiership-oldest-squad-revealed-23901234

 

Thought this was an interesting article. They calculated the average of the average of each Premiership team this season and also the percentage of minutes played by players under the age of 21.

 

Kilmarnock were the oldest with 28.3, Rangers second with 28.1 while the youngest side is Hamilton with 24.6 followed by Celtic with 25.6.

 

When it comes to percentage of minutes played by players under the age of 21,  the team with the highest percentage is Hamilton with 12.9 %followed by Ross County with 10.8%. The lowest teams were Motherwell with 0.4% followed by Livingston on 0.9%

 

The interesting thing is seeing Motherwell so low. They have been lauded, rightfully over the last few seasons as a team who brings through young talent and even used as an example we should be following. But its curious to see this has not continued this season. I suspect Motherwells poor season may mean that their managers have been reluctant to bleed young talent, or it could be that there is others to come in but they are not ready to next season. But certainly curious.

I think you've hit the nail on the head regarding motherwell. Short term fixes where managers are brought in to make a quick fix very few will put youngsters in.  Jose at Chelsea, man u etc is the classic example. To some degree I think managers are reluctant to put young guys in and them not hit the ground running and struggle. It's a tricky one. But probably easier to bed young guys in to a as you say a team thats not struggling 

[Tazio]

39 minutes ago, jamboinglasgow said:

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/scottish-premiership-oldest-squad-revealed-23901234

 

Thought this was an interesting article. They calculated the average of the average of each Premiership team this season and also the percentage of minutes played by players under the age of 21.

 

Kilmarnock were the oldest with 28.3, Rangers second with 28.1 while the youngest side is Hamilton with 24.6 followed by Celtic with 25.6.

 

When it comes to percentage of minutes played by players under the age of 21,  the team with the highest percentage is Hamilton with 12.9 %followed by Ross County with 10.8%. The lowest teams were Motherwell with 0.4% followed by Livingston on 0.9%

 

The interesting thing is seeing Motherwell so low. They have been lauded, rightfully over the last few seasons as a team who brings through young talent and even used as an example we should be following. But its curious to see this has not continued this season. I suspect Motherwells poor season may mean that their managers have been reluctant to bleed young talent, or it could be that there is others to come in but they are not ready to next season. But certainly curious.

It wasn’t that long ago we were getting publicity for playing more minutes of teenagers than any other team in a European top league. 

[Bongo 1874]

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.edinburghlive.co.uk/sport/football/anthony-mcdonald-explains-hearts-departure-19381653.amp&ved=2ahUKEwiJub3t7PnvAhVp_rsIHc1SCJkQFjAYegQIGRAC&usg=AOvVaw0_4iuu5g_L5459r6_wWq57&ampcf=1

 

[sadj]

On 12/04/2021 at 08:32, Jeffros Furios said:

In the strange  world of Bongo . . Hearts are to  blame for McGhee's handball and Pereira being shite . 

Also you can ask all these players who Bongo is as he's well known 

Who needs fans slating the club when you have someone who going by their words has been close in to the club for about 600 years.... 

[sadj]

17 hours ago, Bongo 1874 said:

Yeah every single player we let go wasn't good enough 👍. 

 

Every single player signed in place of them was far better than what we let go. 

 

The evidence to back this up and the academy is doing fantastic, we have played many youth team players this season. 

 

We don't have an experienced old squad it's based on youth players which was the plan, Ann budge Craig Levein and Robbie Neilson have far exceeded there expectations, so much so I suggest we get three statues for them outside Tynecastle. 

 

 

Did someone tel you DS isnt coming back that you’ve just gone off on one the last few days. Maybe its because you want to fit in with the constant abuse the club gets but jesus christ this thread is mad

[Dunks]

On 11/04/2021 at 07:50, A_A wehatethehibs said:

Looked into it this week and the youth narrative is a wee bit of a busted hand tbh. Seems to be a bit of a podcast meme that doesn’t properly add up in reality. 
 

End of the day it has always been the case that from 10-15 youths that gets whittled down to 2 or 3 making it to the first team squads. OP appears to follow the academy so you should know that. Go back however far you want. The one time we were forced to play an entire youth team under Locke in 13-14 with Dylan McGowans and Kevin mchatties etc Hearts literally could not compete, Locke went 20 odd games without a win mid season, we got relegated, and would have been in a relegation battle and still bottom even without the points deduction. In the end, from that crop, only Walker, Paterson and Nicholson made it into an actual Hearts team that was up to Hearts standards and finished 3rd in the league.
 

These players today who are out at Montrose or Cove Rangers need to really skyrocket to go from that level up to Hearts first team, you can look back all through history and you’ll see that most of the time, they don’t. But this season in particular the kids are at an even bigger disadvantage as they are all way way off the game time levels they need. Covid has been a real spanner in the works. How can folk slate the club when the normal progression from U20s to reserves to first team hasn’t even been operational for a year? These kids haven’t even played reserve games till now? They need to get those 10-15 games which they’ll hopefully get now. So we’ll see pre season, but the only names on OPs list there who I’m optimistic about are Logan and Henderson. The rest, I am calling it now, none of them will be playing any games in the Hearts Premiership first team next season. Maybe either Cochrane or Smith, if Irving leaves. Even if we changed the manager it’d be the same. The pressure to win and get above Hibs next season and get to the latter stages of cups, is absolutely immense. And we also actually have a bit of a transfer war chest too, with the large amount of dross that’s getting slashed off the wage bill.  
 

From the last crop it was whittled down to Brandon, Irving, Henderson. A few like Leonard, Morrison, Doig and others chose to leave in search of football or a different path into pro level. Others like Moore weren’t good enough and were let go. 1 was sold for 7 figures and that bankrolls the whole academy for a few more seasons. Yes we’ve not given very many debuts which is disappointing at surface level, but these things do go in cycles as OP will know from his stellar knowledge of youth football. You’ll have a season where there’s a lot of debuts then the next few years it gets whittled down as you sort wheat from the chaff. Next crop will be similar. Great to see the U18s are back playing, I’m sure a number of them will have great careers to look forward to. Maybe 1 of them could even be on to bigger things and english Premier etc. But the vast 90% majority won’t. If there’s any more than 3-4 youth players age 20 or under in a matchday squad of 18 players, I would say we’re doing pretty well. 20% matchday squad representation would be 3-4 academy players under the age of say 23. I think that’s a very decent aim and if you look at the facts we’ve actually been pretty close to that this season, a pity McGill hasn’t got more games but how good is he really? Is he a better player than Haring Mceneff Irving and Halliday? 

 

Maybe you would advocate that 20% squad levels to be say 30%. That would be 6 academy U23s out of the matchday 18 players. I actually agree with that, but would say maybe it would just be an age thing rather than just academy. We need to be signing more 20-21 year old players as well. Thats something we’ve not done. But the main thing, our overall squad age has been too high. I think that is achievable and what I’d be wanting as well  But that would have to be a long term thing to manage. And it would be very ambitious to get consistently to Europe while doing it. Because the fact is, not every kid is particularly good. A lot of them just aren’t. We can sign better quality players than them. Mceneff vs Irving, case in point. Mceneff is pushing for full international caps for his country. Irving will likely never get a cap. So what, we have to just not sign anyone and play Irving? That’s where it gets difficult. 

 

If Cochrane and Smith were not attached to hearts, they were just 20 year old Cove/ Montrose players. Would you be advocating for Hearts to go and buy them for next season from these clubs, for Hearts first team? Talking shite if you say yes tbh 

 

Next season i hope to see 2 or 3 more of them into the squad as the likes of White Berra and others move on. But I expect signings as well. A shame none of these kids are a top Center half as we could really use an 18 year old version of Berra to come through now.  That would be very handy. Next season there will hopefully be a full pre season, youth season and reserves season underway and we will be in a position to give a couple of debuts, if a few of the u18 lads look ready. 

 

Neilson is a long way away from putting that cup exit right. He’s at the bottom of Mount Everest in fact. But we got the promotion job done and avoided the disaster of failing to get up first time of asking as happened with other “biggest clubs in the division” of previous years. So it’s basically time to move on. Maybe he’s at base camp of Mount Everest now. A mammoth task ahead for him to recover, and that’s without of forcing him to have to play an absurd number of 10-15 kids next season. That won’t be happening and it doesn’t matter who the manager is. That’ll never happen. 
 

And if you want to discuss what’s happened to Irving as well, that is pretty obvious to me. Peter Haring has got back to fitness, he is now only 70-80% back to his best and he is better than Irving. Mceneff has come in to the club and he is better than Irving in terms of his pedigree, experience, pace, athleticism. Took some games to get up to speed but showed what he’s about now. Fact is Irving should be signing on, and looking to be Peter Harings shadow and start to copy all these wee tricks Haring plays, traps he sets and the way he skids the ball about. Irving can be that good if he has the patience to be a sponge, he’s only 20 so next season is ideal for him to turn 21, then on to 22 you’d think it’s perfect progression for him. But he isn’t going to be a certain starter or on big money. That’s not “ruining” him that’s just having better players than him and setting high standards for him to reach which at this time, Irving, looking back to the last 2 years under 3 managers, he just hasn’t got there yet. Nowhere near. And those standards I expect to be even higher next season as my expectation is for a Djoum type athletic power house midfielder to come into the engine room as well.

 

As for Doig well to be honest, I’m not going to use him as a stick to beat Neilson and Savage with. Neither of them was at Hearts when he was let go. We have already binned the man who was responsible. Folk need to understand that Craig Levein is gone from Hearts. The first step in recovery from Levein, was to get back promoted. That’s only the starting line. So folk need to start to move on from going over every single cock up the man made, there are literally hundreds. And though Doig was let go, we did still get 7 figures for Hickey so it’s not all bad. Give Savage and Neilson their first chance in the Premiership, that’s what we will do now. And if you don’t like that cancel your dd and stay away till budge and her appointees savage and Neilson are all gone. 

 

So the short version of the above. It’s right to have high hopes for the academy. But the first team bar is high and needs to go way way up next season. 

 

[Bongo 1874]

17 minutes ago, Dunks said:

 

It's not it's a terrible post, how much have we made on youth?. 

 

We have failed big time Motherwell got the same for James Scott as we did Hickey?. 

 

We have a fantastic youth academy, but we don't have the coaches/manager to take the players forward and progress them to the next level. 

 

 

Edited April 13, 2021 by Bongo 1874

[OldGorgie]

Even taking into account the utter shambles that is the SFA, youth development in Scottish football is a joke. Hearts are no different in that respect.

[A_A wehatethehibs]

1 hour ago, Bongo 1874 said:

It's not it's a terrible post, how much have we made on youth?. 

 

We have failed big time Motherwell got the same for James Scott as we did Hickey?. 

 

We have a fantastic youth academy, but we don't have the coaches/manager to take the players forward and progress them to the next level. 

 

 

Must be something in that post because t’s been replied to every page of your thread with folk from all sides of the debate saying “good post” 

 

And the post never even said the academy has been some great success story. It was just a rational assessment of the here and now, today’s story about today’s squad. Has been a very tough year to do anything with progression youths as they’ve all not even been kicked a ball. And in Henderson and Irving, they’ve been ever presents in the squad this season and Henderson looks to be on the rise now with Wighton binned in Jan, while Irving on the wane with Mceneff brought in in jan and Haring getting fitter. But they’ve had their crack of the whip over the last few years it cannot be denied. They’re both on about 50 appearances each now. Yes, some of their ups and downs is down to coaching but there’s a point where it’s down to the footballer to write his own script. I thought Henderson looked to do that vs Alloa he took responsibility and took matters into his own hands. End of the day a coach can’t always have the power to do that, it has to come from within the player. And that’s why so few eventually do make it through because it is tough when you’re a club that has the budget to sign quality. Recruitment is its own issue the point is, for a kid to come through he’s got to be seriously good for us not to be able to buy someone better than him. That’s not to say we always do buy someone better than him. But whether we’re getting the right signings or not, that’s recruitment so a separate topic. Irving vs mceneff or Irving vs Haring is the best example we can look at that’s relevant today. Irving’s the 3rd best player out of them 3 names at the time of writing. And we will look to sign someone even better than any of them in the summer with the war chest we’ve got. So it’s very very tough for even the best kids to get up to that standard when they’re only 20-21.  
 

We’ve now removed Levein, his directorship failings has been done to death. We’ve got a new management structure in place with new ideas, promotion is the first step, so most of the fans are just now looking onwards to that. Many have their doubts about Neilson, which is perfectly fair enough. He isn’t getting sacked though, so all there is to do, is try to look to the future and whether he succeeds or fails the hearts support will be watching and the pressure will be intense. So let’s hope he succeeds. We’re Hearts fans after all. I’m looking forward to next season now. We made a 7 figures sum out of sales of the last batch youth players so, let’s hope we can beat that and maybe make that £5m plus from the next batch of today’s U18s. But irrespective of that, I’m not so fussed about the money, I want us to produce lads who perform for Hearts and win us honours. I couldn’t really care less what money we get. I would rather guys like Euan Henderson and Andy Irving are never sold and go on to become reliable long term players here that benefit our team on the pitch. That’s the main thing for me.

 

These younger U18 lads who we will be looking to next, have had a big big set back with the lack of games due to Covid-19. So it’s right for us to be patient now. Especially with the upgrades we need to our personnel next season. But for some reason, you’re just rabbiting on about how we shouldn’t of let Jordan McGhee and Liam Smith go 4 or 5 years ago. Think forwards. 

[Bongo 1874]

1 hour ago, A_A wehatethehibs said:

Must be something in that post because t’s been replied to every page of your thread with folk from all sides of the debate saying “good post” 

 

And the post never even said the academy has been some great success story. It was just a rational assessment of the here and now, today’s story about today’s squad. Has been a very tough year to do anything with progression youths as they’ve all not even been kicked a ball. And in Henderson and Irving, they’ve been ever presents in the squad this season and Henderson looks to be on the rise now with Wighton binned in Jan, while Irving on the wane with Mceneff brought in in jan and Haring getting fitter. But they’ve had their crack of the whip over the last few years it cannot be denied. They’re both on about 50 appearances each now. Yes, some of their ups and downs is down to coaching but there’s a point where it’s down to the footballer to write his own script. I thought Henderson looked to do that vs Alloa he took responsibility and took matters into his own hands. End of the day a coach can’t always have the power to do that, it has to come from within the player. And that’s why so few eventually do make it through because it is tough when you’re a club that has the budget to sign quality. Recruitment is its own issue the point is, for a kid to come through he’s got to be seriously good for us not to be able to buy someone better than him. That’s not to say we always do buy someone better than him. But whether we’re getting the right signings or not, that’s recruitment so a separate topic. Irving vs mceneff or Irving vs Haring is the best example we can look at that’s relevant today. Irving’s the 3rd best player out of them 3 names at the time of writing. And we will look to sign someone even better than any of them in the summer with the war chest we’ve got. So it’s very very tough for even the best kids to get up to that standard when they’re only 20-21.  
 

We’ve now removed Levein, his directorship failings has been done to death. We’ve got a new management structure in place with new ideas, promotion is the first step, so most of the fans are just now looking onwards to that. Many have their doubts about Neilson, which is perfectly fair enough. He isn’t getting sacked though, so all there is to do, is try to look to the future and whether he succeeds or fails the hearts support will be watching and the pressure will be intense. So let’s hope he succeeds. We’re Hearts fans after all. I’m looking forward to next season now. We made a 7 figures sum out of sales of the last batch youth players so, let’s hope we can beat that and maybe make that £5m plus from the next batch of today’s U18s. But irrespective of that, I’m not so fussed about the money, I want us to produce lads who perform for Hearts and win us honours. I couldn’t really care less what money we get. I would rather guys like Euan Henderson and Andy Irving are never sold and go on to become reliable long term players here that benefit our team on the pitch. That’s the main thing for me.

 

These younger U18 lads who we will be looking to next, have had a big big set back with the lack of games due to Covid-19. So it’s right for us to be patient now. Especially with the upgrades we need to our personnel next season. But for some reason, you’re just rabbiting on about how we shouldn’t of let Jordan McGhee and Liam Smith go 4 or 5 years ago. Think forwards. 

First of all how many games has Henderson started this season?. 

 

Second during Robbie's first time in charge of the club how many youths players did he play regulary, remember Locke played a lot of them before he came in?. 

 

So you can't give him credit for that, as far as you saying u18s haven't played etc that is correct, but is that not the same with every team or just us let me know. 

 

And it doesn't seem to have effected them that much judging on Fridays result against Aberdeen 😉🤔. 

 

As I've said before they have been getting 1-1 training regularly, and this never came from me, but some of them have been meeting up and training together. 

 

I truly believe the players we let go,are more than good enough to play a part at our club. 

 

Especially when we get beat by mobs like Brora. 

 

 

[Tazio]

1 minute ago, Bongo 1874 said:

First of all how many games has Henderson started this season?. 

 

Second during Robbie's first time in charge of the club how many youths players did he play regulary, remember Locke played a lot of them before he came in?. 

 

So you can't give him credit for that, as far as you saying u18s haven't played etc that is correct, but is that not the same with every team or just us let me know. 

 

And it doesn't seem to have effected them that much judging on Fridays result against Aberdeen 😉🤔. 

 

As I've said before they have been getting 1-1 training regularly, and this never came from me, but some of them have been meeting up and training together. 

 

I truly believe the players we let go,are more than good enough to play a part at our club. 

 

Especially when we get beat by mobs like Brora. 

 

 

Locke didn’t have any choice. He had 3 players in the first team squad older than 21. 
If you’ve seen any of the Dunfermline Dundee match tonight you’re seriously claiming McGhee or Cummings could add to and improve our team? There’s no point keeping them as can ‘play a part at the club’. 

[Bongo 1874]

3 minutes ago, Tazio said:

Locke didn’t have any choice. He had 3 players in the first team squad older than 21. 
If you’ve seen any of the Dunfermline Dundee match tonight you’re seriously claiming McGhee or Cummings could add to and improve our team? There’s no point keeping them as can ‘play a part at the club’. 

Hold on a minute are you seriously saying players can't improve with better players around them?. 

 

I seem to remember people having the same opinion on Wighton 🤔 and Henderson was written off by man on here, but Bongo backed him 😁. 

[Tazio]

Just now, Bongo 1874 said:

Hold on a minute are you seriously saying players can't improve with better players around them?. 

 

I seem to remember people having the same opinion on Wighton 🤔 and Henderson was written off by man on here, but Bongo backed him 😁. 

You were ridiculous before but now you’ve taken to referring to yourself in the 3rd person you’ve reached a new level. 
I’m out. 

[Hearts1975]

1 hour ago, A_A wehatethehibs said:

Must be something in that post because t’s been replied to every page of your thread with folk from all sides of the debate saying “good post” 

 

And the post never even said the academy has been some great success story. It was just a rational assessment of the here and now, today’s story about today’s squad. Has been a very tough year to do anything with progression youths as they’ve all not even been kicked a ball. And in Henderson and Irving, they’ve been ever presents in the squad this season and Henderson looks to be on the rise now with Wighton binned in Jan, while Irving on the wane with Mceneff brought in in jan and Haring getting fitter. But they’ve had their crack of the whip over the last few years it cannot be denied. They’re both on about 50 appearances each now. Yes, some of their ups and downs is down to coaching but there’s a point where it’s down to the footballer to write his own script. I thought Henderson looked to do that vs Alloa he took responsibility and took matters into his own hands. End of the day a coach can’t always have the power to do that, it has to come from within the player. And that’s why so few eventually do make it through because it is tough when you’re a club that has the budget to sign quality. Recruitment is its own issue the point is, for a kid to come through he’s got to be seriously good for us not to be able to buy someone better than him. That’s not to say we always do buy someone better than him. But whether we’re getting the right signings or not, that’s recruitment so a separate topic. Irving vs mceneff or Irving vs Haring is the best example we can look at that’s relevant today. Irving’s the 3rd best player out of them 3 names at the time of writing. And we will look to sign someone even better than any of them in the summer with the war chest we’ve got. So it’s very very tough for even the best kids to get up to that standard when they’re only 20-21.  
 

We’ve now removed Levein, his directorship failings has been done to death. We’ve got a new management structure in place with new ideas, promotion is the first step, so most of the fans are just now looking onwards to that. Many have their doubts about Neilson, which is perfectly fair enough. He isn’t getting sacked though, so all there is to do, is try to look to the future and whether he succeeds or fails the hearts support will be watching and the pressure will be intense. So let’s hope he succeeds. We’re Hearts fans after all. I’m looking forward to next season now. We made a 7 figures sum out of sales of the last batch youth players so, let’s hope we can beat that and maybe make that £5m plus from the next batch of today’s U18s. But irrespective of that, I’m not so fussed about the money, I want us to produce lads who perform for Hearts and win us honours. I couldn’t really care less what money we get. I would rather guys like Euan Henderson and Andy Irving are never sold and go on to become reliable long term players here that benefit our team on the pitch. That’s the main thing for me.

 

These younger U18 lads who we will be looking to next, have had a big big set back with the lack of games due to Covid-19. So it’s right for us to be patient now. Especially with the upgrades we need to our personnel next season. But for some reason, you’re just rabbiting on about how we shouldn’t of let Jordan McGhee and Liam Smith go 4 or 5 years ago. Think forwards. 

Just reading the post and a lot of the points make sense. Cant argue with any of the desired outcomes that you make. It’s bang on the money 

 

Once you read it through the problem that we have and that still stands is the symptoms and root cause piece 
 

AB done her bit but she is now fast becoming the problem. Like any large organisation, or institution, the change is driven from the very very top 

 

There has been that many threads on manager failures, recruitment, academies, players (existing), poor performances and poor results 

 

All the above stuff is systematic but the root cause is AB (unfortunately) - the bottom line is that she has to take full responsibility for the football side - the buck stops with her and as much as she can remove failure upon failure, when does it get to the point where she is held accountable for said failures 

 

With the appointment of McKinlay and Savage you can argue that she has changed the dynamic in terms of the decision making process - To little, to late ?

 

Only time will tell 

[Bongo 1874]

5 minutes ago, Tazio said:

Locke didn’t have any choice. He had 3 players in the first team squad older than 21. 
If you’ve seen any of the Dunfermline Dundee match tonight you’re seriously claiming McGhee or Cummings could add to and improve our team? There’s no point keeping them as can ‘play a part at the club’. 

As for Locke he was keeping us up with a squad full of kids if we didn't have a 15 point deduction. 

 

Was horribly treated by the club, just answer when Neilson left, what did he leave the next guy coming into to improve on. 

 

The guy thought mk dons was a bigger club than Hearts, I wonder why he didn't stay and look to finish above Rangers again?, could it be he knew over the course of the season in the Scottish Premiership, he wasn't going to finish above Rangers and Aberdeen?. 

[Bongo 1874]

6 minutes ago, Hearts1975 said:

Just reading the post and a lot of the points make sense. Cant argue with any of the desired outcomes that you make. It’s bang on the money 

 

Once you read it through the problem that we have and that still stands is the symptoms and root cause piece 
 

AB done her bit but she is now fast becoming the problem. Like any large organisation, or institution, the change is driven from the very very top 

 

There has been that many threads on manager failures, recruitment, academies, players (existing), poor performances and poor results 

 

All the above stuff is systematic but the root cause is AB (unfortunately) - the bottom line is that she has to take full responsibility for the football side - the buck stops with her and as much as she can remove failure upon failure, when does it get to the point where she is held accountable for said failures 

 

With the appointment of McKinlay and Savage you can argue that she has changed the dynamic in terms of the decision making process - To little, to late ?

 

Only time will tell 

 

6 minutes ago, Hearts1975 said:

Just reading the post and a lot of the points make sense. Cant argue with any of the desired outcomes that you make. It’s bang on the money 

 

Once you read it through the problem that we have and that still stands is the symptoms and root cause piece 
 

AB done her bit but she is now fast becoming the problem. Like any large organisation, or institution, the change is driven from the very very top 

 

There has been that many threads on manager failures, recruitment, academies, players (existing), poor performances and poor results 

 

All the above stuff is systematic but the root cause is AB (unfortunately) - the bottom line is that she has to take full responsibility for the football side - the buck stops with her and as much as she can remove failure upon failure, when does it get to the point where she is held accountable for said failures 

 

With the appointment of McKinlay and Savage you can argue that she has changed the dynamic in terms of the decision making process - To little, to late ?

 

Only time will tell 

Sorry but i disagree it's full of excuse after excuse, we were told by Levein that the squad would have half the academy in it 5-6 players from academy within the squad. 

 

That was nothing but a blatant lie. 

Edited April 13, 2021 by Bongo 1874

[Hearts1975]

1 minute ago, Bongo 1874 said:

 

Sorry but i disagree it's full of excuse after excuse, we were told by Levein that the squad would be have half the academy in it 5-6 players from academy within the squad. 

 

That was nothing but a blatant lie. 

The point I am making is that it’s fast becoming a pointless conversation, because until change is made at the very very top, the academy, and bringing youth into the side will probably not progress like we would all like it too. 

We need new vision, new philosophies and new ideas, and the chief making sure that the Indians know exactly what is required and expected of them for things to change 

[Bongo 1874]

Just a big lie the club has told 5year plan aye 🤔🙄 show me it? , and you have all taken it in like mugs. 

[Bongo 1874]

6 minutes ago, Hearts1975 said:

The point I am making is that it’s fast becoming a pointless conversation, because until change is made at the very very top, the academy, and bringing youth into the side will probably not progress like we would all like it too. 

We need new vision, new philosophies and new ideas, and the chief making sure that the Indians know exactly what is required and expected of them for things to change 

We have the Youth at the moment, at the club to do it mate 😂the manager has no trust in them. 

 

I have just had someone try to convince me that Henderson has had a fair crack, he's been on the bench most times this season, and 💩 like Frear etc have played ahead of him. 

 

Edited April 13, 2021 by Bongo 1874

[Bongo 1874]

Rather than blame the people responsible for player development, blame the players for not taking it by the scruff of the neck 😂😂😂 😂. 

 

Aye👍💩🙄. 

[Hearts1975]

1 minute ago, Bongo 1874 said:

Just a big lie the club has told 5year plan aye 🤔🙄 show me it? , and you have all taken it in like mugs. 

If we had a proper Footballing board in place and a CEO that knew what they were doing our academy would produce 

 

Them’s the facts Bongo. It’s like everything

 

A Porsche is a fast car but if you have some halfwit driving it ... That’s the real point. 

[Lone Striker]

21 minutes ago, Tazio said:

You were ridiculous before but now you’ve taken to referring to yourself in the 3rd person you’ve reached a new level. 
I’m out. 

😀  Maybe Billy Davies is Bongo's other hero .....

[Bongo 1874]

2 minutes ago, Hearts1975 said:

If we had a proper Footballing board in place and a CEO that knew what they were doing our academy would produce 

 

Them’s the facts Bongo. It’s like everything

 

A Porsche is a fast car but if you have some halfwit driving it ... That’s the real point. 

You see the problem is we have essentially replaced Levein, then tried to implement Stendel's style of play, to then change it with Robbie wtf. 

 

And people wonder why the players can't perform, it's all to easy to blame the players. 

 

It's fecking him get him to feck man he ruins players. 

Edited April 13, 2021 by Bongo 1874

[jr ewing]

Facilities great. Academy awful. Let's keep the facilities. 

[Hearts1975]

1 minute ago, Bongo 1874 said:

Rather than blame the people responsible for player development, blame the players for not taking it by the scruff of the neck 😂😂😂 😂. 

 

Aye👍💩🙄. 

😀 I’m blaming the people running it and not the players. Thought that much was obvious

 

Is the academy shit ? - absolutely not. It’s got the potential to be one of the best in Scotland - it’s all there. 

 

Do I think that with different people running it we could or would have produced better ? Absolutely and I stand by that 

[Bongo 1874]

8 minutes ago, Hearts1975 said:

😀 I’m blaming the people running it and not the players. Thought that much was obvious

 

Is the academy shit ? - absolutely not. It’s got the potential to be one of the best in Scotland - it’s all there. 

 

Do I think that with different people running it we could or would have produced better ? Absolutely and I stand by that 

Not having a go at you all the others 👍. 

[Hearts1975]

2 minutes ago, Bongo 1874 said:

You see the problem is we have essentially replaced Levein, then tried to implement Stendel's style of play, to then change it with Robbie wtf. 

 

And people wonder why the players can't perform, it's all to easy to blame the players. 

 

It's fecking him get him to feck man he ruins players. 

On that point and just a personal thing - I could be right or wrong on this as I ain’t a football manager, but I would like the idea of one footballing philosophy that pretty much replicates down the various age groups - tactics similar, so all of the training and production lines means that the young players step into the first team environment but have learned how to play that style of football 

 

Replicated by the Ajax model. At the beginning of our new dawn I thought that this was something the club would try and do 

 

That’s not happened - we can change tactic in one full game 4 or 5 times over. No wonder sometimes it looks like we don’t know what to do 

 

I think if we changes to the above, it would provide more consistency and with the right “style of play” would produce better performances and better results 

 

I remember Burley being slated for his half time team talks - he wrote on the board every single opposition player from 1-11 and then went (Name - Shite, Name - Shite, Name - Shite)

 

But we still won games - the players didn’t know the style of play of their opposite number - they didn’t need to, because the opposite number spent all game trying to nullify our style of play, rather than trying to implement their own 

 

In the last 7 years we have went from being a side that goes out to destroy the opposition to figuring out how to stifle their own style of play because the managers that we employed were defensive tacticians, first and foremost 

 

AB might have just pulled herself out of it but couldn’t see that the whole club would need a 12-18 month transition to get back to the brand of football that we all wanted to see and got rid of DS within 3 months - she has now went back to the “safe and steady” and RN is going nowhere 

 

I desperately want us to get back to where we belong and where we can be. It will happen, of that I have no doubt. Just not under Ann’s tenure and that’s on track record - nothing else 

[Hearts1975]

4 minutes ago, Bongo 1874 said:

Not having a go at you all the others 👍. 

Never said you were 👍 - it’s fine to agree to disagree, regardless of what’s said 

 

Folk calling folk X, Y and Z names, hurling insults, and getting personal, just because the person they are debating with doesn’t agree with them, and/or says something that they don’t agree with, is shite patter, and more a reflection of their own character than anything else 

[BelgeJambo]

Club advertising for an Academy Coaching Development Manager.

Does that mean Arnott has gone?

Edited May 13, 2021 by BelgeJambo

[jamboinglasgow]

4 minutes ago, BelgeJambo said:

Club advertising for an Academy Youth Development Manager.

Does that mean Arnott has gone?

 

Reading the job description, it talks of working with the Academy manager, so it does not appear to be Rogert Arnott's role.

 

ACADEMY COACHING DEVELOPMENT MANAGER

We are recruiting an exciting new role within the Academy for an Academy Coaching Development Manager with a start date in July 2021.

The successful candidate will be responsible for overseeing the Academy coaching programme for all boys and girls within the Academy between the age groups of under 11 to under 18 under Club Academy Scotland (CAS).

This is an excellent opportunity for an experienced Coach who has worked at Elite level to contribute towards the development of elite level players and top talent within the Academy by ensuring the coaching staff work to the highest professional standards. The successful candidate will assist the Academy Manager to develop a culture and philosophy aligned to the ethos of the Football Department in delivering the club’s vision for a world class Football Academy developing talented youth players who go on to play in the first team and have a successful career.

[Lone Striker]

4 minutes ago, jamboinglasgow said:

 

Reading the job description, it talks of working with the Academy manager, so it does not appear to be Rogert Arnott's role.

 

ACADEMY COACHING DEVELOPMENT MANAGER

We are recruiting an exciting new role within the Academy for an Academy Coaching Development Manager with a start date in July 2021.

The successful candidate will be responsible for overseeing the Academy coaching programme for all boys and girls within the Academy between the age groups of under 11 to under 18 under Club Academy Scotland (CAS).

This is an excellent opportunity for an experienced Coach who has worked at Elite level to contribute towards the development of elite level players and top talent within the Academy by ensuring the coaching staff work to the highest professional standards. The successful candidate will assist the Academy Manager to develop a culture and philosophy aligned to the ethos of the Football Department in delivering the club’s vision for a world class Football Academy developing talented youth players who go on to play in the first team and have a successful career.

Seems a bit strange that this is being hailed as a "new role" - which implies no-one was doing this before.   If they want an experienced coach at Elite level, perhaps someone (Savage perhaps) has identified a potential reason why the so few of our U-18 graduates  are considered good enough to hold down a first team place.

 

On the plus side, we should probably give some credit to the FoH reps on the HMFC board for at least doing something about their failing "vision" for youth development at Hearts.   

 

[Portable Badger]

Seems to be a coaching the Coaches role

[jamboinglasgow]

16 minutes ago, Lone Striker said:

Seems a bit strange that this is being hailed as a "new role" - which implies no-one was doing this before.   If they want an experienced coach at Elite level, perhaps someone (Savage perhaps) has identified a potential reason why the so few of our U-18 graduates  are considered good enough to hold down a first team place.

 

On the plus side, we should probably give some credit to the FoH reps on the HMFC board for at least doing something about their failing "vision" for youth development at Hearts.   

 

 

It could be that the various parts of the role were done by other parts of the academy and they just want to bring it all under 1 person who is better qualified to do the role. I  know that certainly a few years ago under Levein, Darren Murray was Head of Coach Education (though I think that was done to implement Box Soccer.) Though from the job description it does suggest the academy is perhaps going a new way in how they are planning to coach youngsters. 

[CJGJ]

It is the setting up and running of a programme for the club signings from age 11

 

A coaching pattern to be established and overseen by the person chosen with the staff generally doing the coaching implementing the strategy laid down from above.

 

A senior manager who looks at the staff in close detail and will ask are they doing the job we require of them, in the manner they should ?  Constantly on this board we hear about quality of coaching and I would have thought this would be welcome by all

If I am a manager in charge of a number of staff at my work along with another group of managers then my boss rightly will look at me and assess my performance part of which will be the development of staff below me.....simply common sense

 

I am sure the coaches will be given support to improve their performance and development moving through the various badge levels and this is part of that given the expectation that as the coach improves so will the pupils he or she is responsible for.

[kingantti1874]

It does seem a sensible position. We don’t have the best academy in Scotland. Miles from it. We have a lot of coaches who are too interested in winning games and still look past genuine talent for the players who are bigger stronger and faster in the persuit of winning these meaningless games

[Guest ToqueJambo]

2 hours ago, kingantti1874 said:

It does seem a sensible position. We don’t have the best academy in Scotland. Miles from it. We have a lot of coaches who are too interested in winning games and still look past genuine talent for the players who are bigger stronger and faster in the persuit of winning these meaningless games

 

Which club does have the best academy? It's a major issue in Scotland with clubs not putting faith in teenagers when you see loads of them getting games in the EPL and Germany and elsewhere. Instead most teams seem to want to teach them "mans football" in the lower leagues. It's a problem with our national team as well - far too reluctant to give kids a chance.

 

It's not really a Hearts issue. Especially as we seem more willing than most to give 16 and 17 year olds a chance. Hickey, Cochrane and Irving recently all got good runs of games. What other clubs did that with players that age? We could even count Josh Doig as one of our products, we only released him because of the quality ahead of him. People are quick to point out Hickey came to us from Celtic after all.

 

Could we do better - of course. But I'm interested to know which Scottish teams are bringing players through on a regular basis - especially the teams with similar or greater budgets - Hibs, Aberdeen, Rangers and Celtic. Teams with smaller budgets might take more chances with youth because they have to.

[Lone Striker]

3 hours ago, CJGJ said:

It is the setting up and running of a programme for the club signings from age 11

 

A coaching pattern to be established and overseen by the person chosen with the staff generally doing the coaching implementing the strategy laid down from above.

 

A senior manager who looks at the staff in close detail and will ask are they doing the job we require of them, in the manner they should ?  Constantly on this board we hear about quality of coaching and I would have thought this would be welcome by all

If I am a manager in charge of a number of staff at my work along with another group of managers then my boss rightly will look at me and assess my performance part of which will be the development of staff below me.....simply common sense

 

I am sure the coaches will be given support to improve their performance and development moving through the various badge levels and this is part of that given the expectation that as the coach improves so will the pupils he or she is responsible for.

Good comments. But isn't that what Roger Arnott should have been doing for the last 6 years ?

[kingantti1874]

40 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

Which club does have the best academy? It's a major issue in Scotland with clubs not putting faith in teenagers when you see loads of them getting games in the EPL and Germany and elsewhere. Instead most teams seem to want to teach them "mans football" in the lower leagues. It's a problem with our national team as well - far too reluctant to give kids a chance.

 

It's not really a Hearts issue. Especially as we seem more willing than most to give 16 and 17 year olds a chance. Hickey, Cochrane and Irving recently all got good runs of games. What other clubs did that with players that age? We could even count Josh Doig as one of our products, we only released him because of the quality ahead of him. People are quick to point out Hickey came to us from Celtic after all.

 

Could we do better - of course. But I'm interested to know which Scottish teams are bringing players through on a regular basis - especially the teams with similar or greater budgets - Hibs, Aberdeen, Rangers and Celtic. Teams with smaller budgets might take more chances with youth because they have to.

Rangers, Celtic, Motherwell, St Johnstone defo. Haven’t seen enough of the others.