2021 Six Nations

[Tazio]

So the studio decide slagging off France is the best topic. Wales cheated all the way through the 2nd half giving away cynical penalties to restrict French movement. 

[Gizmo]

18 minutes ago, Barack said:

So Wales have played 3 teams who've had a red this year.

 

When your luck's in, eh... 

 

17 minutes ago, manaliveits105 said:

It’s in the rules Wales only warned never penalised and opposition not allowed to play with 15 for full 80 mins 

 

 

[neilnunb]

[Beni]

🇫🇷 

 

[Spellczech]

How good are rugby officials compared to football ones though...

[Tazio]

Even the Thumb must be looking at Jamie Roberts wondering what he’s got on his head. 

[willie wallace]

What a way to finish the game.

I was at the Scotland v France game in South Africa in 1995 when French flyhalf Roman Ntamack's dad Emile scored the winning try in the last minute.

It meant we played Joma Lomu +co. In the quarter finals rather than Ireland.😥

[Spellczech]

7 minutes ago, Tazio said:

Even the Thumb must be looking at Jamie Roberts wondering what he’s got on his head. 

@rse hair

[ri Alban]

C'mon Scotland, don't bother yer arse against France. A 21 nil lose will do.

[Seymour M Hersh]

13 hours ago, manaliveits105 said:

Good Luck to the French 14 

 

Called it manaliveits105!

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

10 hours ago, Spellczech said:

How good are rugby officials compared to football ones though...

Good in the main, although I thought Wales were lucky to avoid a third red card and a penalty try at one stage

[I P Knightley]

34 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

Good in the main, although I thought Wales were lucky to avoid a third red card and a penalty try at one stage

Agreed. They were cynical and got away with a lot more than was given. Glad they lost.

[milky_26]

2 minutes ago, I P Knightley said:

Agreed. They were cynical and got away with a lot more than was given. Glad they lost.

just like most of their others games in the 6 nations this year

[leginten]

Biggest winning margin in games between France, Ireland, Scotland and Wales - five points. Throw in England’s games against Scotland and France and you have an incredibly competitive championship. A few points either way and any one of four teams could have been going for a Grand Slam. I often find international rugby a bit of a let-down in many respects, but it has been absolutely compelling this season.

[leginten]

12 hours ago, Victorian said:

Tap an go you useless *****.

It has actually been pleasing to see the long overdue re-emergence of tap and go in this Six Nations. For years I have watched mystified as teams desperate for a try in the closing minutes opted for the kick to touch or the scrum, with all the attendant risks of losing the line-out or conceding a penalty, the clock running down all the time. And, at best, ending up with their scrum-half in possession five metres further back from where they could have tapped and gone.

[Victorian]

3 minutes ago, leginten said:

It has actually been pleasing to see the long overdue re-emergence of tap and go in this Six Nations. For years I have watched mystified as teams desperate for a try in the closing minutes opted for the kick to touch or the scrum, with all the attendant risks of losing the line-out or conceding a penalty, the clock running down all the time. And, at best, ending up with their scrum-half in possession five metres further back from where they could have tapped and gone.

 

Also add in the advantage gained from a quick tap to move inside to a central position.  Once under the posts it makes the massed defence more difficult.  The line-out certainly enables the easy formation of a driving maul but,  as you say,  only if you win the line-out.  The scrum option even riskier with another risk of the clock running down from resets.

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

1 hour ago, Victorian said:

 

Also add in the advantage gained from a quick tap to move inside to a central position.  Once under the posts it makes the massed defence more difficult.  The line-out certainly enables the easy formation of a driving maul but,  as you say,  only if you win the line-out.  The scrum option even riskier with another risk of the clock running down from resets.

When the referee stopped that flying tap and go for being in the wrong place, I actually thought France were going to attack him en masse

 

Have to say though, the respect players show to referees in rugby is commendable and the game is better for it. Was always one of the things that disappointed me about O’Driscoll - he was too gobby.

[Spellczech]

15 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

When the referee stopped that flying tap and go for being in the wrong place, I actually thought France were going to attack him en masse

 

Have to say though, the respect players show to referees in rugby is commendable and the game is better for it. Was always one of the things that disappointed me about O’Driscoll - he was too gobby.

It is the manner in which the referees behave. Towards the end when he called the captains to him and Wynn Jones was mouthing off, and he just made it clear that he was wasn't listening and wanted to speak himself...Football obviously cannot just have the referee only speaking to the captains, as some GKs would be running the length of the pitch several times a match, but they could introduce that only the captain can speak to the referee.

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

21 minutes ago, Spellczech said:

It is the manner in which the referees behave. Towards the end when he called the captains to him and Wynn Jones was mouthing off, and he just made it clear that he was wasn't listening and wanted to speak himself...Football obviously cannot just have the referee only speaking to the captains, as some GKs would be running the length of the pitch several times a match, but they could introduce that only the captain can speak to the referee.

I doubt it would work because football is programmed to blame the referee before blaming yourself. I know what you mean though, it’s a different sport played at a different pace and with fewer interruptions 

[Victorian]

The TMO system can work really well in rugby.  It's much better suited to rugby than VAR is to football.  The dynamics of the sports determine that.  TMO is working less well at the moment though due to two things.  The principle of on-field decision primacy and the newer directive to deter referees from relying on TMO.  They're trying to encourage more decisions without TMO which is leading to inconsistency.

[Spellczech]

21 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

I doubt it would work because football is programmed to blame the referee before blaming yourself. I know what you mean though, it’s a different sport played at a different pace and with fewer interruptions 

If they introduced 10 minute sinbins, at first just for things like swearing, or even talking to the referee instead of letting the captain do it. At the moment, a yellow card in football means diddly squat. It would also mean that captaincy in football actually means something on the pitch...

 

A warning card (yellow) could be reserved for things like mistimed tackles rather than professional fouls. Diving could be eradicated...

Edited March 21, 2021 by Spellczech

[ri Alban]

It's time holding up the ball is binned. Players who are under the ball should be classed as the turf and the try should be given. Imo

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

29 minutes ago, Victorian said:

The TMO system can work really well in rugby.  It's much better suited to rugby than VAR is to football.  The dynamics of the sports determine that.  TMO is working less well at the moment though due to two things.  The principle of on-field decision primacy and the newer directive to deter referees from relying on TMO.  They're trying to encourage more decisions without TMO which is leading to inconsistency.

I’m still baffled by the decision to allow the Welsh try where there was no evidence of him touching it down. The TMO line seemed to be ‘you’ve given it and I can’t categorically say you were wrong so the try stands.’

 

When what they should be saying is, there’s no proof he touched the ball down. Therefore it can’t stand.

 

weird

[Victorian]

8 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

I’m still baffled by the decision to allow the Welsh try where there was no evidence of him touching it down. The TMO line seemed to be ‘you’ve given it and I can’t categorically say you were wrong so the try stands.’

 

When what they should be saying is, there’s no proof he touched the ball down. Therefore it can’t stand.

 

weird

 

That's on-field decision primacy.  Try given and can't be overturned unless there's clear evidence it was held up.  The barking mad thing is that there WAS clear evidence it was held up.

 

 

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

2 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

That's on-field decision primacy.  Try given and can't be overturned unless there's clear evidence it was held up.  The barking mad thing is that there WAS clear evidence it was held up.

 

 

There certainly seemed to be. It doesn’t make sense to me that what it probably the wrong decision is allowed to stand just because the referee gave it. If that’s the case, do away with TMO altogether.

 

Still utterly delighted about Wales getting done at the death

 

[Victorian]

2 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

There certainly seemed to be. It doesn’t make sense to me that what it probably the wrong decision is allowed to stand just because the referee gave it. If that’s the case, do away with TMO altogether.

 

Still utterly delighted about Wales getting done at the death

 

 

Yep brilliant.  It was like all of their borderline cheating and dumb luck from many a past game caught up with them over the course of 10 minutes.  Yet again seeing their opponents get a red card but somehow they managed to go a man down instead via 2 quick yellows.

 

They even had phase possession with about 60 seconds left.  Just nurse the ball and go through the pick and go phases.  ****ed it.

[leginten]

3 hours ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

When the referee stopped that flying tap and go for being in the wrong place, I actually thought France were going to attack him en masse

 

Have to say though, the respect players show to referees in rugby is commendable and the game is better for it. Was always one of the things that disappointed me about O’Driscoll - he was too gobby.

I have seen Saint Brian run up to a referee and scream in his face in a World Cup match when a decision went against Ireland - at which point he should have been invited to leave the pitch. Nothing was said, of course, either by the referee or the studio pundits afterwards, because he always appeared to be untouchable. Still a media darling but not, for me, a likeable character.

Edited March 21, 2021 by leginten

[Tazio]

3 minutes ago, leginten said:

I have seen Saint Brian run up to a referee and scream in his face in a World Cup match when a decision went against Ireland - at which point he should have been invited to leave the pitch. Nothing was said, of course, either by the referee or the studio pundits afterwards, because he always appeared to be untouchable. Still a media darling but not, for me, a likeable character.

A friend who is a fanatical Leinster and Ireland fan who follows them all round the world for games made the mistake of meeting him once. Arrogant beyond belief apparently. 

[leginten]

1 minute ago, Tazio said:

A friend who is a fanatical Leinster and Ireland fan who follows them all round the world for games made the mistake of meeting him once. Arrogant beyond belief apparently. 

That doesn’t surprise me at all.

[XB52]

4 hours ago, Victorian said:

 

That's on-field decision primacy.  Try given and can't be overturned unless there's clear evidence it was held up.  The barking mad thing is that there WAS clear evidence it was held up.

 

 

I watched it numerous times and I still couldn't decide if part of the ball touched the ground just before he French hand got under it. Presumably the tmo guy was the same so on field decision had to stand

[Victorian]

10 minutes ago, XB52 said:

I watched it numerous times and I still couldn't decide if part of the ball touched the ground just before he French hand got under it. Presumably the tmo guy was the same so on field decision had to stand

 

The ball was never nearer to the ground up to the point when the replay pictures ended with the French hand under the ball.  There's no way it was ever grounded.

[Boof]

3 minutes ago, Victorian said:

The ball was never nearer to the ground up to the point when the replay pictures ended with the French hand under the ball.  There's no way it was ever grounded.

 

Curious how each time the ref's on-field decision favoured the Welsh perspective.

[BudgeUp]

5 hours ago, ri Alban said:

It's time holding up the ball is binned. Players who are under the ball should be classed as the turf and the try should be given. Imo

The holding up to prevent a try is a good thing. It adds an element to defense.

[XB52]

10 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

The ball was never nearer to the ground up to the point when the replay pictures ended with the French hand under the ball.  There's no way it was ever grounded.

Not really arguing as you are probably right but there was one replay where it looked like part of the ball may have touched the ground. As I said the tmo must have agreed with me 

[Malinga the Swinga]

Haven't stopped smiling after Welsh blew it. The most arrogant rugby nation in earth, with the most deluded supporters, accomponied by the most myopic media representatives, means I can look forward to speaking to Welsh colleagues on Monday. 

Their back row is always offside, their one plan is kick it high and chase it, and their bleating on every decision made it a great Saturday evening when France scored that last try. 

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

13 hours ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

Haven't stopped smiling after Welsh blew it. The most arrogant rugby nation in earth, with the most deluded supporters, accomponied by the most myopic media representatives, means I can look forward to speaking to Welsh colleagues on Monday. 

Their back row is always offside, their one plan is kick it high and chase it, and their bleating on every decision made it a great Saturday evening when France scored that last try. 

Their media is embarrassing. Refusing to see the first two games for what they were, ignoring dubious calls against England and then going way over the top about a victory over an Italy side who need emptied from the entire tournament.

 

Saturday tasted sweet

[Cruyff]

Lions XV for me

 

1. Rory Sutherland (Scotland)         

2. Ken Owens (Wales) 

3. Tadhg Furlong (Ireland) 

4. Maro Itoje (England) 

5. Alun Wyn Jones (c) (Wales) 

6. Tadhg Beirne (Ireland) 

7. Hamish Watson (Scotland) 

8. Taulupe Faletau (Wales) 

9. Conor Murray (Ireland) 

10. Johnny Sexton (Ireland) 

11. Louis Reece-Zammit (Wales) 

12. Robbie Henshaw (Ireland) 

13. George North (Wales) 

14. Duhan van der Merwe (Scotland) 

15. Stuart Hogg (Scotland) 

[I P Knightley]

3 hours ago, Cruyff said:

Lions XV for me

 

1. Rory Sutherland (Scotland)         

2. Ken Owens (Wales) 

3. Tadhg Furlong (Ireland) 

4. Maro Itoje (England) 

5. Alun Wyn Jones (c) (Wales) 

6. Tadhg Beirne (Ireland) 

7. Hamish Watson (Scotland) 

8. Taulupe Faletau (Wales) 

9. Conor Murray (Ireland) 

10. Johnny Sexton (Ireland) 

11. Louis Reece-Zammit (Wales) 

12. Robbie Henshaw (Ireland) 

13. George North (Wales) 

14. Duhan van der Merwe (Scotland) 

15. Stuart Hogg (Scotland) 

Close to mine but my prediction is somewhat hampered by knowing that Gatland will pick a real boring lineup.

 

Would love it to be Russell at fly-half but his performance against England hasn't been repeated and he made too many errors in the other two games. Watch now and he'll play an astounding match on Friday! That said, I plumped for Biggar at fly; I think he does better to release a back line that Sexton (and I just don't like Sexton and his wee face).

 

I'd put Slade at 13 instead of North. I wouldn't have plumped for Duhan to start but it's a close call for wingers. The Saffers are going to be dropping bombs from high up and Liam Williams or Maitland are both strong under the high ball. Maitland's been surprisingly good this championship - shame that Saffercens aren't releasing him for the France match (if that's the reason he's not in the squad).

 

On the bench? A front row (pick any three you like but not the English props), Johnny Gray, M'boza (or Curry), Davies, Russell (or Ford), Maitland or Williams.

 

The Lions are spoiled for choice in the back row and across the back three but have virtually nothing to choose from at scrum half.

 

Bear in mind that South Africa haven't played any rugby since winning the world cup and I think Gatland could afford to be a bit more experimental - not that he will.

[Tazio]

I wouldn’t play Wyn Jones against South Africa. I’ve watched a decent amount of SA rugby in the last few months and he would be blowing out his arse by half time. They still play the massive Afrikaner and Zulu/Xhosa boys in the front row but more mobile than in the past but they’ve moved on and the rest of the pack are big fast mobile modern players and hard as nails. However it would be a mistake to think that Hamish Watson would be too small to play against them as his speed will make up for that. I’ve a feeling Garland will try to put out the biggest pack he can. 

[ri Alban]

Scotland need to beat France to prove(not to me) they are not too inconsistent. 

 

 

Hamish Watson could walk into any team in the world. He's brilliant. 

Edited March 22, 2021 by ri Alban

[Boof]

Can't see any mention on BBC site of Ellis Genge's altercation with Sexton.

 

Escaped a citing.

[Cruyff]

4 hours ago, I P Knightley said:

Close to mine but my prediction is somewhat hampered by knowing that Gatland will pick a real boring lineup.

 

Would love it to be Russell at fly-half but his performance against England hasn't been repeated and he made too many errors in the other two games. Watch now and he'll play an astounding match on Friday! That said, I plumped for Biggar at fly; I think he does better to release a back line that Sexton (and I just don't like Sexton and his wee face).

 

I'd put Slade at 13 instead of North. I wouldn't have plumped for Duhan to start but it's a close call for wingers. The Saffers are going to be dropping bombs from high up and Liam Williams or Maitland are both strong under the high ball. Maitland's been surprisingly good this championship - shame that Saffercens aren't releasing him for the France match (if that's the reason he's not in the squad).

 

On the bench? A front row (pick any three you like but not the English props), Johnny Gray, M'boza (or Curry), Davies, Russell (or Ford), Maitland or Williams.

 

The Lions are spoiled for choice in the back row and across the back three but have virtually nothing to choose from at scrum half.

 

Bear in mind that South Africa haven't played any rugby since winning the world cup and I think Gatland could afford to be a bit more experimental - not that he will.

1-5 are set in stone I think. As will Conor Murray at scrum half, like you say, there's no one else really. 

 

I would have picked Russell prior to watching Sexton win the game v us and tear England to pieces, he's proven he's still got it. Massive experience. 

 

Johnny Gray will go defo. Jamie Ritchie might go as a back up at 6. Maitland is a good shout too. 

[ri Alban]

Hogg, Watson and Ritchie should be on that tour. 

Edited March 23, 2021 by ri Alban

[John Findlay]

Scotland beat the French and i really think it is a big ask. Then i think a few Scots will make the lions tour.

Hogg, Russell Watson, Van der Merwe Huw Jones, Ritchie and Gray.

[I P Knightley]

4 hours ago, ri Alban said:

Hogg, Watson and Ritchie should be on that tour. 

You've got the world's rugby press calling Russell the best fly half in the world (albeit "mercurial"), Gatland would have to be even dumber than he actually is to not put him on the tour.

 

Sutherland is a good shout to be on the tour at tight-head with Healy and Wyn Jones all being remarkably close. Fagerson, Furlong & Francis at loose-head. Guaranteed, though, that Gatland will put at least one of the English numpties in there.

 

Answering @John Findlay:

Van der Merwe is an outsider. It's almost certain that he'll pick Louis Rees-Zammit as the 'inexperienced/new find' tourist so to have a second one in the same position might be a big ask, especially when there are so many good wingers in the four nations (A Watson, L Williams, Maitland, Earls, Adams, Daly, May). Unless Gatland sees there being a bit of fun in having a native Afrikaans speaker to get in the Saffers' ears but I don't think he's as petty as me

 

Similarly with Oor Huw Jones. A fantastic attacking player but Gatland likes centres to be built like me. Well, likes them to be my weight at least . There's a few centres who have started more regularly for their countries and not done much wrong: Ringrose, Henshaw, Slade, Davies, North (who's found his best position after 100 caps) and, of course, he'll have to find a place on tour for the worst centre of the six nations - Farrell.

 

Another possible new boy is, of course, Redpath. Remember that there used to be a time when the Lions touring squad would have one uncapped player? I remember John Bentley being one who came exrtemely good. There's no pressure to maintain that tradition since it's not been followed on the last 3 or 4 tours but with standards being so close and England being so poor (and SA having had no rugby), it may be a punt worth taking to have a couple of players with only a few caps.

[John Findlay]

50 minutes ago, I P Knightley said:

You've got the world's rugby press calling Russell the best fly half in the world (albeit "mercurial"), Gatland would have to be even dumber than he actually is to not put him on the tour.

 

Sutherland is a good shout to be on the tour at tight-head with Healy and Wyn Jones all being remarkably close. Fagerson, Furlong & Francis at loose-head. Guaranteed, though, that Gatland will put at least one of the English numpties in there.

 

Answering @John Findlay:

Van der Merwe is an outsider. It's almost certain that he'll pick Louis Rees-Zammit as the 'inexperienced/new find' tourist so to have a second one in the same position might be a big ask, especially when there are so many good wingers in the four nations (A Watson, L Williams, Maitland, Earls, Adams, Daly, May). Unless Gatland sees there being a bit of fun in having a native Afrikaans speaker to get in the Saffers' ears but I don't think he's as petty as me

 

Similarly with Oor Huw Jones. A fantastic attacking player but Gatland likes centres to be built like me. Well, likes them to be my weight at least . There's a few centres who have started more regularly for their countries and not done much wrong: Ringrose, Henshaw, Slade, Davies, North (who's found his best position after 100 caps) and, of course, he'll have to find a place on tour for the worst centre of the six nations - Farrell.

 

Another possible new boy is, of course, Redpath. Remember that there used to be a time when the Lions touring squad would have one uncapped player? I remember John Bentley being one who came exrtemely good. There's no pressure to maintain that tradition since it's not been followed on the last 3 or 4 tours but with standards being so close and England being so poor (and SA having had no rugby), it may be a punt worth taking to have a couple of players with only a few caps.

Always have someone off the cuff just like Gregor Townsend was back in 1997. Gatland likes his Rugby, like his own persona, dour.

[Tazio]

There will be at least one pick on the tour that will be a genuine WTF. Like his decision on the last one to pick two hookers from England. 

[John Findlay]

13 minutes ago, Tazio said:

There will be at least one pick on the tour that will be a genuine WTF. Like his decision on the last one to pick two hookers from England. 

Maybe he got lonely in his hotel room

[Cruyff]

40 minutes ago, Tazio said:

There will be at least one pick on the tour that will be a genuine WTF. Like his decision on the last one to pick two hookers from England. 

Personally don't believe many England players deserve to go. They got leathered by all the home nations. 

 

Itoje is the exception. He's absolutely magnificent. He'd walk into any side in the world at lock or 8.

 

Johnny May is a pretty good winger. 

 

Henry Slade is a good centre or fly half. 

 

Curry is a good flanker but has had a very poor 6 nations and I'd take Watson, Navidi, CJ Stander (at 8 or flanker) and Jamie Ritchie ahead of him. 

 

Certainly wouldn't take Farrell. He's been dugshit for a while. 

 

Apart from that maybe Sinckler the prop. 

[Seymour M Hersh]

He should take Van der Merwe as he'll be able lip read/overhear what they're saying to each other in Afrikaans.