brunstanejambo Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 5 hours ago, Beast Boy said: Indeed. Don’t talk about I though. The poster before you doesn’t want it discussed despite him apparently turning down a contract extension and being out of contract in the summer. 🙄 😂😂😂 That's exactly what I said right enough. You just keep on with your 'apparently this' and 'I heard that' if that's what makes you happy. Here's one for you - I heard that apparently most things that people post on here about their knowledge of players contact situations is a load of p!sh. I heard this from myself BTW, so know for a fact that I think it's true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Boy Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 6 hours ago, jamboinglasgow said: I would not too much into it at the moment. Lets not vilify the player yet. To be fair, the fact that last year we managed to persuade Harry Stone to sign a contract when he had great offers from bigger teams, and now Callum Flatman has signed for us instead of going down south suggests we are doing some things right with regards to youth contracts. I would want to see our best young players getting a few year contract but it is not easy in a market which some clubs can just throw money at young players which to us is too much but to those clubs is pocket change. It can also be a risk giving a young player who has broken through and looks promising a long contract. They could not reach the level of the first few games and mean we are left holding a player. Or it could be like Hickey, we sign a player at 16 who is using us as a springboard to get first team football then move on, so we can only offer a maximum of 3 years at 16 and the player is not interested in signing past that. I do hope Irving signs a new contract, though if he does I think we will only have for no more than just over a year and a half. Not vilifying him. It’s a situation that keeps happening with young players at Hearts and it’s frustrating. Glad Stone and Flatman have signed new contracts, hopefully get to enjoy them for a while before they **** off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Boy Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 6 minutes ago, brunstanejambo said: 😂😂😂 That's exactly what I said right enough. You just keep on with your 'apparently this' and 'I heard that' if that's what makes you happy. Here's one for you - I heard that apparently most things that people post on here about their knowledge of players contact situations is a load of p!sh. I heard this from myself BTW, so know for a fact that I think it's true. The “apparentlies” are a few posts further back. Not as if I’ve made them up myself. If you know differently to those posters take it up with them. As it is, all I know is what I’ve read on this thread, and the fact that he’s a free agent in the summer. Its a forum, and folk discuss things related to Hearts on it. Calm yourself down to incandescent and offer something a bit more useful than snide sniping. Im a Hearts supporter. I want to see our best young players hang around a bit longer than they do currently. If a Hearts forum isn’t the lace to do that, then I don’t know where is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazzas right boot Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 Be interesting if a Spanish team is after him. With Hickey going to Italy and Macdonald going to Spain along with the rangers guys going to Germany it may be indicate that we do have some technically capable youngsters but the Scottish game isn't the place to develop. I've long thought, with others that physicality and the way we cultivate our play along with the officiating does not let technical players flourish. Maybe it's just a few players or maybe start of a bigger trend. Hopefully Irving signs, he'll play a good amount of football with us, I guess it will depend on his options. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brunstanejambo Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 6 minutes ago, Beast Boy said: The “apparentlies” are a few posts further back. Not as if I’ve made them up myself. If you know differently to those posters take it up with them. As it is, all I know is what I’ve read on this thread, and the fact that he’s a free agent in the summer. Its a forum, and folk discuss things related to Hearts on it. Calm yourself down to incandescent and offer something a bit more useful than snide sniping. Im a Hearts supporter. I want to see our best young players hang around a bit longer than they do currently. If a Hearts forum isn’t the lace to do that, then I don’t know where is. 'calm yourself down to incandescent' because I laughed at the fact that you interpreted my previous post incorrectly?? Not sure where you get the incandescent from, but hey ho... I actually agree with your last paragraph, but find it funny when folk here turn a thread about good thing (Scotland call up) into a player/club bashing/criticism. And you were the one to do that by the way with your question about him refusing a new contract. You are then keeping that direction alive with your 'someone posted.. .' in response to Jambo4050 saying that he knows the family and couldn't see Irving turning down a contract. Back on topic - great news that he has been called up to the 21s and I hope that he gets some game time then comes back to Hearts and has a cracking season for us. If he does, and we get promoted, I'm sure he'll get offered a new deal and will sign it as he is living the dream by playing for his boyhood club. I do question why he was only given a 2 year deal last summer as he was clearly a good prospect then, but hopefully the club rectify that and give him a decent length of contract this time round. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lfhearts Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 1 hour ago, Smith's right boot said: Be interesting if a Spanish team is after him. With Hickey going to Italy and Macdonald going to Spain along with the rangers guys going to Germany it may be indicate that we do have some technically capable youngsters but the Scottish game isn't the place to develop. I've long thought, with others that physicality and the way we cultivate our play along with the officiating does not let technical players flourish. Maybe it's just a few players or maybe start of a bigger trend. Hopefully Irving signs, he'll play a good amount of football with us, I guess it will depend on his options. What Rangers guys went to Germany? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Absolute Scenes Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 16 minutes ago, Lfhearts said: What Rangers guys went to Germany? Master Bates (David) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lfhearts Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 Bates left at about 20 about 3/4 years ago, no longer there, on loan in Belgium I believe, initial hit, but then out team at Hamburg. Hardly relevant re Irving situation he will be well advised, likely end up in England lower league. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Brightside Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 34 minutes ago, Lfhearts said: What Rangers guys went to Germany? Might be mixed up with Celtic players. Sure there are 2 at Bayern Munich, one is Liam Morrison. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buzzbomb Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 This will be the 4th contract Irving will have signed (if he does). The club have had plenty of chances to get it right. During that time Irving has been on low money contracts but has worked hard while watching other young players given opportunities ahead of him, given longer deals and more money. Lack of faith shown in him. Fans forget loyalty is a two way street. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Boy Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 30 minutes ago, buzzbomb said: This will be the 4th contract Irving will have signed (if he does). The club have had plenty of chances to get it right. During that time Irving has been on low money contracts but has worked hard while watching other young players given opportunities ahead of him, given longer deals and more money. Lack of faith shown in him. Fans forget loyalty is a two way street. Fourth contract he’s signed? That would be youth contracts then, going by his current age? So when was the last one he signed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buzzbomb Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 8 minutes ago, Beast Boy said: Fourth contract he’s signed? That would be youth contracts then, going by his current age? So when was the last one he signed? Sorry 3rd contract. Point stands though. Club have had plenty time to get it right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazzas right boot Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Lfhearts said: What Rangers guys went to Germany? Bates- hamburg? Someone also mentioned a celtic player as well, I thought it was 2 rangers, potatoe / potato! Nb- 2 celtic players apparently. Edited October 12, 2020 by Smith's right boot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Boy Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 (edited) 14 minutes ago, buzzbomb said: Sorry 3rd contract. Point stands though. Club have had plenty time to get it right. So he's 20 years old and has signed three Hearts contracts? That would mean: 2016/17 - Signed full time with Hearts (16 years old). ? 2018/19 - Extension 2 year (18 years old) 2019/20 - Turned down a contract extension at Hearts (20 years old) So what was the other contract? If he was offered one last summer and he turned it down, then that was just three years after he signed on with Hearts as a professional aged 16. In that time he's made 36 appearances for Hearts and has been on loan to get more game time, where he played 37 games aged 17-18 to get first team experience. What exactly have we not been getting right with him? Genuine question, I'd like to know what the issue is? Not enough money, or not enough appearances? Seems a pretty decent start to his career so far for a 20 year old. Edited October 12, 2020 by Beast Boy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buzzbomb Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 2 minutes ago, Beast Boy said: So he's 20 years old and has signed three Hearts contracts? That would mean: 2016/17 - Signed full time with Hearts (16 years old). ? 2018/19 - Extension 2 year (18 years old) 2019/20 - Turned down a contract extension at Hearts (20 years old) So what was the other contract? If he was offered one last summer and he turned it down, then that was just three years after he signed on with Hearts as a professional aged 16. In that time he's made 36 appearances for Hearts and has been on loan to get more game time, where he played 37 games aged 17-18 to get first team experience. What exactly have we not been getting right with him? Genuine question, I'd like to know what the issue is? Not enough money, or not enough appearances? Seems a pretty decent start to his career so far for a 20 year old. I said if he signs it’ll be his third Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lfhearts Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 18 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said: Bates- hamburg? Someone also mentioned a celtic player as well, I thought it was 2 rangers, potatoe / potato! Nb- 2 celtic players apparently. Usual you, post whatever you hear on any and more or less every topic, absolute tosh potato/potatoes, twat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazzas right boot Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 2 minutes ago, Lfhearts said: Usual you, post whatever you hear on any and more or less every topic, absolute tosh potato/potatoes, twat. WTF you on about? Hickey went to Bologna, MacDonald is in spain, 2 celtic guys and a rangers player have moved abroad recently. If the Spanish interest in Irving is true I find that an interesting trend or development. Maybe you don't, either away and fight in an empty room with someone else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lfhearts Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 Bates left 4 years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Boy Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, buzzbomb said: I said if he signs it’ll be his third Okay, sorry, that's my mistake then. I thought you said he had already signed three contracts. Apologies. So that means he has signed two Hearts contracts: 2016/17 - Signed full time with Hearts (16 years old) 2018/19 - Extension 2 year (18 years old) In that time he's made 36 appearances for Hearts and has been on loan to get more game time, where he played 37 games aged 17-18 to get first team experience. My point stands then. What is it that we "haven't got right" with him, that has meant he doesn't want to sign a contract extension that would either keep him at Hearts (his boyhood club, and the club who gave him his professional start), or ensure that if he leaves, we get a good fee for him? I can only assume it must be down to money, which would make sense considering the wage cuts and material effect demotion has had on our finances. A demotion, let us not forget however, that occurred whilst he was playing regularly for the first team. Edited October 12, 2020 by Beast Boy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamboinglasgow Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 1 hour ago, Smith's right boot said: WTF you on about? Hickey went to Bologna, MacDonald is in spain, 2 celtic guys and a rangers player have moved abroad recently. If the Spanish interest in Irving is true I find that an interesting trend or development. Maybe you don't, either away and fight in an empty room with someone else. just ignore him, he is going to have a go at me for what I am posting in this post anyway. For a full breakdown of Scots abroad (in major European countries In Germany you have Liam Morrison at U19 level and Barry Hepburn at U17 (both at Bayern.) In italy, you have Hickey in Serie A at Bologna, Liam Henderson at Lecce in Serie B, Harvey St Clair is also in Serie B at Venezia. In France, Fraser Hornby is at Reims in Ligue 1. In Spain, Jack Harper is at Cartagena (on loan from Getafe) in the Segunda division. McDonald is at Cordoba in Segunda B, Jordan Holsgrove is Celta Vigo B in Segunda B (joined in the summer.) and Spanish born Scot Ewain Urain is at Bilbao Athletic (B team of Athletic Bilbao) in Segunda B though played in some friendlies for the first team pre- season. In Portugal, Ryan Gauld is at Farense in Primeira Liga. In Belgium, Jack Hendry is on loan at KV Oostende and David Bates is on loan at Cercle Brugge both in the Juplier Pro League In Netherlands, George Johnson is at Feyenoord in the Eredivisie, Lewis Fiorini is on loan (from Man CIty) at NAC Breda in the Eerste Division and Frank Ross is at Go Ahead Eagles in the Eerste division. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jr ewing Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 2 hours ago, Beast Boy said: So he's 20 years old and has signed three Hearts contracts? That would mean: 2016/17 - Signed full time with Hearts (16 years old). ? 2018/19 - Extension 2 year (18 years old) 2019/20 - Turned down a contract extension at Hearts (20 years old) So what was the other contract? If he was offered one last summer and he turned it down, then that was just three years after he signed on with Hearts as a professional aged 16. In that time he's made 36 appearances for Hearts and has been on loan to get more game time, where he played 37 games aged 17-18 to get first team experience. What exactly have we not been getting right with him? Genuine question, I'd like to know what the issue is? Not enough money, or not enough appearances? Seems a pretty decent start to his career so far for a 20 year old. Show me the money! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazzas right boot Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, jamboinglasgow said: just ignore him, he is going to have a go at me for what I am posting in this post anyway. For a full breakdown of Scots abroad (in major European countries In Germany you have Liam Morrison at U19 level and Barry Hepburn at U17 (both at Bayern.) In italy, you have Hickey in Serie A at Bologna, Liam Henderson at Lecce in Serie B, Harvey St Clair is also in Serie B at Venezia. In France, Fraser Hornby is at Reims in Ligue 1. In Spain, Jack Harper is at Cartagena (on loan from Getafe) in the Segunda division. McDonald is at Cordoba in Segunda B, Jordan Holsgrove is Celta Vigo B in Segunda B (joined in the summer.) and Spanish born Scot Ewain Urain is at Bilbao Athletic (B team of Athletic Bilbao) in Segunda B though played in some friendlies for the first team pre- season. In Portugal, Ryan Gauld is at Farense in Primeira Liga. In Belgium, Jack Hendry is on loan at KV Oostende and David Bates is on loan at Cercle Brugge both in the Juplier Pro League In Netherlands, George Johnson is at Feyenoord in the Eredivisie, Lewis Fiorini is on loan (from Man CIty) at NAC Breda in the Eerste Division and Frank Ross is at Go Ahead Eagles in the Eerste division. An interesting trend. Great info as well. Edited October 12, 2020 by Smith's right boot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adayinmay Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 On 11/10/2020 at 10:37, Jambo4050 said: I know the family and they’re huge jambos. Couldn’t see him turning down a contract. Very level headed laddie too If the offer is crap he will turn it down. Has already. Hearts need to stop thinking young Scottish players will stay and sign derisory offers because they are Hearts fans or Scottish. They need the same respect and offers we give to English or foreign players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lfhearts Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 4 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said: An interesting trend. Great info as well. A trend needs to be backed up with results eg appearances etc It's totally misleading to include Gauld and Bates who have both been away for a number of years and moved around a bit, whatever floats your boat I suppose but I don't know how a thread about Andy Irving suddenly becomes about number of Scottish players in Europe, it's hardly in FFs league. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brunstanejambo Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 15 minutes ago, jr ewing said: Show me the money! And why not I suppose - he may be playing for his boyhood club, but at the end of the day it's a job and I'm sure he's no different to any of us and will want to get adequately compensated for his efforts. As I said earlier, it baffled me that he was only given a 2yr deal on his last contract as he seemed to be progressing well and others before him have been offered longer deals at that age. I'm guessing that was down to Levein at the time. I'd like to see him get offered a 4yr deal on money that will make sure he doesn't get tempted by an offer from another Scottish team. If we offer £X and Killie/Livi/StJ/Etc offer £2X with the prospect of the same game time, he'd be a fool to not go with the money. We'd all be tempted if our work's competitor offered us double the wages to do the same job. I can't imagine that we can compete with wages on offer from down South or abroad, or the OF I suppose - but we need to make sure that we offer the lad a decent deal so that he will stay with us and ensure that we get a good fee for him in future if his ability and ambition dictate that he moves on to play at a higher level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboAl Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 35 minutes ago, brunstanejambo said: And why not I suppose - he may be playing for his boyhood club, but at the end of the day it's a job and I'm sure he's no different to any of us and will want to get adequately compensated for his efforts. As I said earlier, it baffled me that he was only given a 2yr deal on his last contract as he seemed to be progressing well and others before him have been offered longer deals at that age. I'm guessing that was down to Levein at the time. I'd like to see him get offered a 4yr deal on money that will make sure he doesn't get tempted by an offer from another Scottish team. If we offer £X and Killie/Livi/StJ/Etc offer £2X with the prospect of the same game time, he'd be a fool to not go with the money. We'd all be tempted if our work's competitor offered us double the wages to do the same job. I can't imagine that we can compete with wages on offer from down South or abroad, or the OF I suppose - but we need to make sure that we offer the lad a decent deal so that he will stay with us and ensure that we get a good fee for him in future if his ability and ambition dictate that he moves on to play at a higher level. Do you know that he hasn't been offered a 4 year deal? Or what wage is involved? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dallas Green Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 (edited) I would like to think we will offer him a good contract before January with a bump in pay if (when) we get promoted. He is a class act of a player and I don't want to lose him for buttons. It is great he has been called up to Scotland U21's Edited October 12, 2020 by Dallas Green Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambonian Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 11 hours ago, Beast Boy said: Which is hugely disappointing as a Hearts supporter and not an Andy Irving supporter. It’s a bit concerning the amount of young Hearts players who break through with us and then decide to bugger off elsewhere before we see the best of them, and without getting us a decent fee. You start to wonder what the ****ing point is. Yip. The days are long gone when Hearts was an attractive option for any young players coming through. Not just us though, other young players at other clubs. All they want now is to get a few games under their belt and get out at the first opportunity. All very sad but that's Scottish football nowadays. Makes you wonder how much the Aberdeen and Dundee Utd players would've been worth back in the eighties at today's prices. Guys that played in Euro Finals, won Leagues etc. The vast majority of the young players that've came through at Hearts in the last 5 years or so have not really been good enough bar the odd one here and there. They reach a certain level and their development stalls. They then end up having their careers down the lower Leagues. Hearts spend a lot of money on their development and rarely get any financial benefit out of it. Makes you wonder if it's all worth it overall but young players need somewhere to get games. There's no loyalty. That started waning sometime in the late 90s early 00s. Heard that Hibs have stopped their youth development and using any money that would normally be used for it to bring players in instead. Not saying that's the way to go but there's something wrong when players decide their future lies elsewhere before they've even made a proper name for themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brunstanejambo Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 6 minutes ago, JamboAl said: Do you know that he hasn't been offered a 4 year deal? Or what wage is involved? No - I've no insight to what he, or any player for that matter, has or has not been offered. It's just what I think we should be doing with a player like him. I'm just speculating like every one else is tbh. I'd like to think that with him having less than a year to go on his contract the club have tabled an offer. Whether or not that has happened, and whether or not that has been turned down - I've no idea. If an offer has been made though, I imagine that it will be weighed up against any offer that comes from elsewhere. I doubt very much that any player at any professional club just signs the first offer that is made to them if they have a season or two under their belt. They'd be mad to do that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazzas right boot Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 1 hour ago, Lfhearts said: A trend needs to be backed up with results eg appearances etc It's totally misleading to include Gauld and Bates who have both been away for a number of years and moved around a bit, whatever floats your boat I suppose but I don't know how a thread about Andy Irving suddenly becomes about number of Scottish players in Europe, it's hardly in FFs league. What a weird thing to get angry about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jr ewing Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 1 hour ago, brunstanejambo said: No - I've no insight to what he, or any player for that matter, has or has not been offered. It's just what I think we should be doing with a player like him. I'm just speculating like every one else is tbh. I'd like to think that with him having less than a year to go on his contract the club have tabled an offer. Whether or not that has happened, and whether or not that has been turned down - I've no idea. If an offer has been made though, I imagine that it will be weighed up against any offer that comes from elsewhere. I doubt very much that any player at any professional club just signs the first offer that is made to them if they have a season or two under their belt. They'd be mad to do that. If we don't compete financially with comparable sized clubs when there is a good prospect on board, then an exodus of the few that do come through will continue. Academy is then only for other teams to poach. It then becomes a waste of time and money to bring anyone through. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lfhearts Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 1 hour ago, Smith's right boot said: What a weird thing to get angry about. I ain't angry it's the same old pure pesh from the usual culprits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboAl Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 2 hours ago, brunstanejambo said: No - I've no insight to what he, or any player for that matter, has or has not been offered. It's just what I think we should be doing with a player like him. I'm just speculating like every one else is tbh. I'd like to think that with him having less than a year to go on his contract the club have tabled an offer. Whether or not that has happened, and whether or not that has been turned down - I've no idea. If an offer has been made though, I imagine that it will be weighed up against any offer that comes from elsewhere. I doubt very much that any player at any professional club just signs the first offer that is made to them if they have a season or two under their belt. They'd be mad to do that. You appear to be speculating that we have not done what you suggest when you admittedly have no insight re an offer. Also what offer do you reckon would be needed to stop rivals topping it and can we afford it? My own view is that the club will go as far as possible to tempt him as finances allow. It would be stupid not to! Thereafter we will be in the lap of the gods. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Boy Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 33 minutes ago, Lfhearts said: I ain't angry it's the same old pure pesh from the usual culprits. You are amongst the worst of the usual culprits. You consistently state your opinions as fact, and are more often than not proven to be talking complete pish. Glasshouses and stones as far as you’re concerned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brunstanejambo Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 24 minutes ago, JamboAl said: You appear to be speculating that we have not done what you suggest when you admittedly have no insight re an offer. Also what offer do you reckon would be needed to stop rivals topping it and can we afford it? My own view is that the club will go as far as possible to tempt him as finances allow. It would be stupid not to! Thereafter we will be in the lap of the gods. We're all just speculating and stating our opinion - I just happen to state it to make it clear that I have no insight into player contract negotiations. Maybe I should have said 'hoping' rather than 'speculating' in my earlier comment, and I didnt mean to imply that the club have not done what I hope they will have done or will do re Irvings contract. Like the rest of us, I'm sure I'll be the last to know when any player contract is extended/declined as I'll read about it on the club website. Until then, it's all speculation from everyone... I don't know what we should offer in actual wage terms, but I'd like to think that we can afford to match whatever is on offer from any club in Scotland (outside of the OF) for a 20 year old with 20+ first team appearances last season. Should he be the highest paid at the club? Probably not. Should he be the lowest paid at the club? Definitely not if he's holding down a first team place and keeping others out of the match day squad. We are the 3rd biggest team in the country, so should not be losing young talent to any rivals becuase we can't match the wages on offer. If we are losing our best talent because of that then there are serious issues with the way that the club is being run. We should be able to afford to hang on to our best young talent, and we should be capable of of coaching/improving them so that they are worth a few quid and capable of making a step up to another level after several years - ala Craig Gordon and Christophe Berra. I'd love to see a conveyor belt of young players like Irving, Cochrane, Hickey, Brandon etc. coming through from the academy, holding down a first team place, winning a few things and then departing for huge sums that we can invest back into developing the next crop. Much rather that than watch journeyman pros brought in on free transfers and costing far more in wages than our own talent ever will. Sadly, I've been following Hearts for too long to think that this will ever happen... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walter Burns Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 4 hours ago, jambonian said: Heard that Hibs have stopped their youth development and using any money that would normally be used for it to bring players in instead. Not saying that's the way to go but there's something wrong when players decide their future lies elsewhere before they've even made a proper name for themselves. That's not true.....Hearts academy has let more players go this season than Hibs have....Hibs academy is still running and have actually moved players up a year so they aren't lost to the game while Hearts released half the kids at the same pre-academy age.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jr ewing Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 35 minutes ago, brunstanejambo said: We're all just speculating and stating our opinion - I just happen to state it to make it clear that I have no insight into player contract negotiations. Maybe I should have said 'hoping' rather than 'speculating' in my earlier comment, and I didnt mean to imply that the club have not done what I hope they will have done or will do re Irvings contract. Like the rest of us, I'm sure I'll be the last to know when any player contract is extended/declined as I'll read about it on the club website. Until then, it's all speculation from everyone... I don't know what we should offer in actual wage terms, but I'd like to think that we can afford to match whatever is on offer from any club in Scotland (outside of the OF) for a 20 year old with 20+ first team appearances last season. Should he be the highest paid at the club? Probably not. Should he be the lowest paid at the club? Definitely not if he's holding down a first team place and keeping others out of the match day squad. We are the 3rd biggest team in the country, so should not be losing young talent to any rivals becuase we can't match the wages on offer. If we are losing our best talent because of that then there are serious issues with the way that the club is being run. We should be able to afford to hang on to our best young talent, and we should be capable of of coaching/improving them so that they are worth a few quid and capable of making a step up to another level after several years - ala Craig Gordon and Christophe Berra. I'd love to see a conveyor belt of young players like Irving, Cochrane, Hickey, Brandon etc. coming through from the academy, holding down a first team place, winning a few things and then departing for huge sums that we can invest back into developing the next crop. Much rather that than watch journeyman pros brought in on free transfers and costing far more in wages than our own talent ever will. Sadly, I've been following Hearts for too long to think that this will ever happen... Unfortunately it's not financially viable. A nice dream all the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ToqueJambo Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 40 minutes ago, brunstanejambo said: I'd love to see a conveyor belt of young players like Irving, Cochrane, Hickey, Brandon etc. coming through from the academy, holding down a first team place, winning a few things and then departing for huge sums that we can invest back into developing the next crop. Well, we all like fairy stories! The way the transfer market is set up is stacked against teams of our size. That's why no teams our size is doing what you describe on a consistent basis. Where we stand out is that we do have a policy of developing youth, we just need to refine the pathway to the first team, and players will get a chance whatever their age. We also have a fantastic stadium and training facilities, and in normal times are usually challenging for something, even if it's "just" a European place. What happened with Hickey can only help sell us to other young prospects out there. But when even very young players have agents and big European clubs come calling or English teams offer massive money, it's hard for us to compete with that. On Irving, we really missed him yesterday. He'll be a very important player as one of the few who can pick a pass to unlock tight defences. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lfhearts Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 2 hours ago, Beast Boy said: You are amongst the worst of the usual culprits. You consistently state your opinions as fact, and are more often than not proven to be talking complete pish. Glasshouses and stones as far as you’re concerned. Not me beastie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboAl Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 1 hour ago, brunstanejambo said: We're all just speculating and stating our opinion - I just happen to state it to make it clear that I have no insight into player contract negotiations. Maybe I should have said 'hoping' rather than 'speculating' in my earlier comment, and I didnt mean to imply that the club have not done what I hope they will have done or will do re Irvings contract. Like the rest of us, I'm sure I'll be the last to know when any player contract is extended/declined as I'll read about it on the club website. Until then, it's all speculation from everyone... I don't know what we should offer in actual wage terms, but I'd like to think that we can afford to match whatever is on offer from any club in Scotland (outside of the OF) for a 20 year old with 20+ first team appearances last season. Should he be the highest paid at the club? Probably not. Should he be the lowest paid at the club? Definitely not if he's holding down a first team place and keeping others out of the match day squad. We are the 3rd biggest team in the country, so should not be losing young talent to any rivals becuase we can't match the wages on offer. If we are losing our best talent because of that then there are serious issues with the way that the club is being run. We should be able to afford to hang on to our best young talent, and we should be capable of of coaching/improving them so that they are worth a few quid and capable of making a step up to another level after several years - ala Craig Gordon and Christophe Berra. I'd love to see a conveyor belt of young players like Irving, Cochrane, Hickey, Brandon etc. coming through from the academy, holding down a first team place, winning a few things and then departing for huge sums that we can invest back into developing the next crop. Much rather that than watch journeyman pros brought in on free transfers and costing far more in wages than our own talent ever will. Sadly, I've been following Hearts for too long to think that this will ever happen... How many players have we lost to rivals in the last 10 years because we can't match the wages on offer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJGJ Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 Let's hope he does not come to any harm whilst in San Marino and is back available to train from Wednesday Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbee647 Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 19 minutes ago, JamboAl said: How many players have we lost to rivals in the last 10 years because we can't match the wages on offer? Certainly not many, but I, like many others can see it being a problem going forwards. One thing for certain, at one time letting our best young talent run down there contracts would not have been an issue, seems to be the norm now... the only way you will get a return on your youth academy is having the best ones on long term contracts, if you can’t make a return on your young players, then there is no point in investing in it , to the sums Hearts contribute on a yearly basis. if these young players don’t want to sign long term deals then we definitely have a problem, the likes of Hibs and Aberdeen had no problem in persuading Nisbet, McGennis and McKenna into signing 5 year deals. In this day and age the club must back there judgement and have our best young talent on long term deals, we will never ever get a return on our best young talent if we don’t do this. If that’s not an option, then you have to question the long term viability of running the present youth academy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Boy Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 1 hour ago, Lfhearts said: Not me beastie. Fair enough. Perfectly possible I’ve mixed you up with someone else, but I was pretty sure that was you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brunstanejambo Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 1 hour ago, JamboAl said: How many players have we lost to rivals in the last 10 years because we can't match the wages on offer? I've no idea, and I never said we had lost any players for that reason. You asked me how much we should pay and I answered that we should be offering what other clubs offer and not losing players because we didn't/can't match what they offer to our youngsters. You seem to be determined to trip me up or start an argument about something that neither of us have any real insight to. It's discussions taking twists like this, and uninformed speculation being taken as fact because somebody heard something, that prompted my initiatial comments on this thread. Only kickback can turn a good news story into something completely different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboAl Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 1 hour ago, jbee647 said: Certainly not many, but I, like many others can see it being a problem going forwards. One thing for certain, at one time letting our best young talent run down there contracts would not have been an issue, seems to be the norm now... the only way you will get a return on your youth academy is having the best ones on long term contracts, if you can’t make a return on your young players, then there is no point in investing in it , to the sums Hearts contribute on a yearly basis. if these young players don’t want to sign long term deals then we definitely have a problem, the likes of Hibs and Aberdeen had no problem in persuading Nisbet, McGennis and McKenna into signing 5 year deals. In this day and age the club must back there judgement and have our best young talent on long term deals, we will never ever get a return on our best young talent if we don’t do this. If that’s not an option, then you have to question the long term viability of running the present youth academy So what should the club do when A PLAYER WANTS to run down his contract eg Paterson ,Hickey? As regards 5 year deals, there has been plenty of arguing on here NOT to give them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboAl Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 18 minutes ago, brunstanejambo said: I've no idea, and I never said we had lost any players for that reason. You asked me how much we should pay and I answered that we should be offering what other clubs offer and not losing players because we didn't/can't match what they offer to our youngsters. You seem to be determined to trip me up or start an argument about something that neither of us have any real insight to. It's discussions taking twists like this, and uninformed speculation being taken as fact because somebody heard something, that prompted my initiatial comments on this thread. Only kickback can turn a good news story into something completely different. You have no idea but the OF apart do we really need to worry about matching their wages and how do we find out what other clubs are offering anyway? I imagine that would be uninformed speculation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finlay James Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 Heard tonight that Irving has been offered a 5 years deal making him one of the top earners at the club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambo92 Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 22 minutes ago, Finlay James said: Heard tonight that Irving has been offered a 5 years deal making him one of the top earners at the club. Jings, the boys got potential but hasn't done enough yet to make me lose sleep over the prospect of him leaving. 3 years on average squad salary would be the correct call at this moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Central Belt 1874 Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 26 minutes ago, Finlay James said: Heard tonight that Irving has been offered a 5 years deal making him one of the top earners at the club. The clubs in a bigger mess than I thought behind the scenes if this turns out to be true. Sake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamboinglasgow Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 27 minutes ago, Finlay James said: Heard tonight that Irving has been offered a 5 years deal making him one of the top earners at the club. If that is the case, it certainly means the club have a lot of faith in him, I would also think they expect that after a couple of offers after a couple of seasons which with a 3 years left on a contract means clubs have to pay out much more to sign him. Though it is risky to offer a 5 year contract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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