Is it time to let some Scottish clubs die?

[Pasquale for King]

37 minutes ago, And he’s not praying! said:

I’ll sign up to message boards the length and breadth of the country when the shit hits the fan.

 

I’ll revel in their misery.

 

All of them.

Good idea, user names like “take your medicine” “deal with it” “suck it up” “you deserved it” “squeal like bitches” “what’s fair got to do with it” “sporting integrity” “81% of clubs voted for it” “not at this time” “Junk/Spam folder” etc etc etc 

[DH1986]

1 hour ago, Pasquale for King said:

Have we got any actual proof that there were? Having watched his interview I was quite impressed with him and wherever the offers were from they weren’t financially viable.  I could be mistaken but I think I said offers from

England or the US where he said he wanted to go, but I could be wrong and I’m happy to be accept it. 
Unlike Davy I actually realise that a football manager can’t actually just resign when an offer is made from another club and leave without compensation. 

Firstly.....

 

Stop being a tit. The guy isn’t going to lie about being made offers......you insinuating this just makes you look daft.

Also.......

 

Depending what conditions were in the contract the manager, his agent and the club agreed at the time there is every chance he could have a release clause saying he could leave for free.

 

Just because you say it can’t happen doesn’t make it true.

[Pasquale for King]

26 minutes ago, DH1986 said:

Firstly.....

 

Stop being a tit. The guy isn’t going to lie about being made offers......you insinuating this just makes you look daft.

Also.......

 

Depending what conditions were in the contract the manager, his agent and the club agreed at the time there is every chance he could have a release clause saying he could leave for free.

 

Just because you say it can’t happen doesn’t make it true.

Not many clubs will let’s their manager leave for free to go to another club, not withstanding the fact that most people knew we had to pay to get him and would check before stating stuff as facts that weren’t. Like he resigned, he didn’t, we didn’t pay, we did, there wasn’t a thread on it, there was. 

[DH1986]

21 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Not many clubs will let’s their manager leave for free to go to another club, not withstanding the fact that most people knew we had to pay to get him and would check before stating stuff as facts that weren’t. Like he resigned, he didn’t, we didn’t pay, we did, there wasn’t a thread on it, there was. 

Raith Rovers allowed Craig Levein to work without a contact knowing he would leave for free when a suitable position was offered to him.

 

Anyway.....

 

You stil stated it as a fact that Halliday hadn’t received any offers from other clubs but a quick google prior would have but the brakes on that.

 

My point is.....don’t preach what you don’t practice 😊

[Pasquale for King]

28 minutes ago, DH1986 said:

Raith Rovers allowed Craig Levein to work without a contact knowing he would leave for free when a suitable position was offered to him.

 

Anyway.....

 

You stil stated it as a fact that Halliday hadn’t received any offers from other clubs but a quick google prior would have but the brakes on that.

 

My point is.....don’t preach what you don’t practice 😊

If I had put decent in there it would’ve been fine, you can’t always trust the red tops either as I believed he wasn’t going to sign for another Scottish team, and wanted to England or the US. 
Not many clubs will let an asset go to a competitor for nothing, no matter what that charlatan Levein and his true love did. 

Edited September 30, 2020 by Pasquale for King

[22games nro]

10 hours ago, Mr Sifter said:

Get the feeling I’m in the minority here but for me, it’s all about Hearts. And only Hearts. I couldn’t give a **** if any club in Scotland dies, they collectively ****ed us over so hell mend them. 

 

This is whole summer has made me very very bitter about Scottish football in general and if pushed, I’d have to admit I DO actually want to see clubs go to the wall. It’s not somethin that’s keeping me awake at night, but at the same time aye, I’d like to see a few go under. I want them all to rue the day they consciously decided to try and take the ***** out of Heart of Midlothian. 

 

**** them all. 

certainly don’t think you are in the minority,

now I only care about one club.

anyway they can always rally round as fans and start a FOH type funding ........

[NANOJAMBO]

5 hours ago, newbie said:

 

Precisely correct - excuse my poor effort at sarcasm.

I was being sarcastic too , so we're all good. 

[mayfield]

On 30/09/2020 at 01:52, itsnomarooned said:

Scotland - population 5 million, 42 'top' clubs plus a host of amateur/junior sides.

 

Belgium - population 11.5 million, 2 professional leagues (26 clubs), then what looks like a proper pyramid structure underneath

Makes perfect sense. The gap in national team success between the two countries then says it all.

[Phage]

I wouldn't shed a tear, apart from the 19%

[gjcc]

For me, never a better opportunity for using the phrase “the more, the merrier”.

[fila]

11 hours ago, AndrewB said:

Roll Over Lay Down they told us.  We said What You're proposing is Lies.  We probably told them that Forty Five Hundred Times.

 

😂

[Talkin' Tynie Podcast]

Yes👍

[blairdin]

20 hours ago, Mr Sifter said:

Get the feeling I’m in the minority here but for me, it’s all about Hearts. And only Hearts. I couldn’t give a **** if any club in Scotland dies, they collectively ****ed us over so hell mend them. 

 

This is whole summer has made me very very bitter about Scottish football in general and if pushed, I’d have to admit I DO actually want to see clubs go to the wall. It’s not somethin that’s keeping me awake at night, but at the same time aye, I’d like to see a few go under. I want them all to rue the day they consciously decided to try and take the ***** out of Heart of Midlothian. 

 

**** them all. 

 

I reckon you'd be pleasantly surprised by the size of your minority. 

 

This is where I am. Only Hearts. 

[Cade]

Not die as such.

Merge.

It's is ridiculous that Scottish football has to many teams and so many leagues. It's been unsustainable for years.

There needs to be a complete re-structuring and a serious reduction in both leagues and teams.

Less professional leagues, more teams in these leagues and a proper pyramid of amateur/youth sides below that.

 

 

[Nookie Bear]

39 minutes ago, Cade said:

Not die as such.

Merge.

It's is ridiculous that Scottish football has to many teams and so many leagues. It's been unsustainable for years.

There needs to be a complete re-structuring and a serious reduction in both leagues and teams.

Less professional leagues, more teams in these leagues and a proper pyramid of amateur/youth sides below that.

 

 

 

I don't thuink that would work.

 

Although these clubs are tinpot the fans they have are passionate about their teams and their towns and are usually resistant to that kind of change.

 

I just feel they would be better off in non-professional leagues where they have a chance of winning and there could still be a pyramid access to the professional set-up. These cklubs exist only in the hope they get a game against whichever old firm team their owner loves and that is not sustainable anymore.

[Ibrahim Tall]

‘Die’ is overkill, it doesn’t harm Scottish football that teams like Albion Rovers, Stenhousemuir or Annan exist anymore than it does your local junior or Saturday league team to exist.
The issue is we’ve an overly bloated league system that gives clubs that are nowhere near ‘national’ level a national platform and voice they don’t deserve or need. In league 2 we’ve got a whole division of non-professional teams that struggle to attract 500 to games that need to travel all over the country in a completely unnecessary league. 
It should be 2 senior leagues of 16 and everything below that in regional leagues like the Highland or Lowland league and allow them to find their own level.

Edited October 1, 2020 by Ibrahim Tall

[Nookie Bear]

2 minutes ago, Ibrahim Tall said:

‘Die’ is overkill, it doesn’t harm Scottish football that teams like Albion Rovers, Stenhousemuir or Annan exist anymore than it does your local junior or Saturday league team to exist.
The issue is we’ve an overly bloated league system that gives clubs that are nowhere near ‘national’ level a national platform and voice they don’t deserve or need. In league 2 we’ve got a whole division of non-professional teams that struggle to attract 500 to games that need to travel all over the country in a completely unnecessary league. 
It should be 2 senior leagues of 16 and everything below that in regional leagues like the Highland or Lowland league and allow them to find their own level.

 

They set out to harm us...a lot.

 

Any small club that voted with their wallets (and our cash) in mind can wither away to the sunday leagues for all i care.

[Ibrahim Tall]

Just now, Nookie Bear said:

 

They set out to harm us...a lot.

 

Any small club that voted with their wallets (and our cash) in mind can wither away to the sunday leagues for all i care.

That’s my point, because they’ve been given a voice and vote they should never have had. Annan for example probably offer a lot to ‘Annan’ specifically as a place, it’s a place for people to watch their local team, they’ve probably got kids teams etc in the same that a Bonnyrigg Rose or a Blackburn United does. But they’re not a ‘national’ side and it’s completely idiotic that they’re given an equal voice on decisions that effect clubs 20 to 50x their size that are actually professional.  They don’t need to die to fix that problem though.

[Nookie Bear]

Just now, Ibrahim Tall said:

That’s my point, because they’ve been given a voice and vote they should never have had. Annan for example probably offer a lot to ‘Annan’ specifically as a place, it’s a place for people to watch their local team, they’ve probably got kids teams etc in the same that a Bonnyrigg Rose or a Blackburn United does. But they’re not a ‘national’ side and it’s completely idiotic that they’re given an equal voice on decisions that effect clubs 20 to 50x their size that are actually professional.  They don’t need to die to fix that problem though.

 

Yeah i get that 👍

 

I think at the moment there is so much anger around with no outlet so everything is fair game. I am sure we will calm down in time but i would hope the club never forgets the events of 2020.

[OldGorgie]

21 hours ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

 

Don't think there's any irony at all. There's no comparison between fans of a professional, competitive club like Hearts (or Hibs, Aberdeen, etc) complaining about the stranglehold of the OF and at the same time complaining about PT, practically amateur, clubs with zero ambition to progress (or any hope of doing so) having a say in important decisions that affect the futures of professional clubs, such as the recent votes on ending the league and reconstruction.

 

All clubs should be full-time with full-time professional set-ups if they want to be in the main professional league and have a say in how that league is run and structured. 

 

Everyone else can still have a chance of doing that through the pyramid, but they can't get access unless they become a full-time professional club. Then they get a vote on things that affects the future of professional football clubs.

Beats me how anybody could have the brass neck to think Elgin or Brechin should have the same rights as a club like ours.

[newbie]

2 minutes ago, OldGorgie said:

Beats me how anybody could have the brass neck to think Elgin or Brechin should have the same rights as a club like ours.

 

Probably in exactly the same way as I'd want Hearts to have the same rights as Celtic & Rangers. Those two clubs each have multiple times the number of fans and finances we have (probably roughly proportionate to the gulf between us and Brechin or Elgin), but why the **** should Hearts be treated to a lesser standard than Celtic and Rangers*? The rules have to fair and equitable for all, FFS it's not rocket science. 

[May one-six]

15 minutes ago, newbie said:

 

Probably in exactly the same way as I'd want Hearts to have the same rights as Celtic & Rangers. Those two clubs each have multiple times the number of fans and finances we have (probably roughly proportionate to the gulf between us and Brechin or Elgin), but why the **** should Hearts be treated to a lesser standard than Celtic and Rangers*? The rules have to fair and equitable for all, FFS it's not rocket science. 

I get where you're coming from, but your comparisons are a bit skewed. We get crowds that are roughly one third of the OF.  Brechin and Elgin would give their right arms to regularly attract attendances that are anywhere near one third of ours.

[Bazzas right boot]

 

2 leagues 16/18 who gives a **** really, just a bigger league like every other country. 

 

3 go down to each league. 

 

This means you have a good movement for the 2nd tier to the regionals, rather just 1 place. 

 

It's not rocket science. 

 

The issue is 4 of games. 

Some teams  want the OF at home as much as possible. 

Shite teams only want 1 down to protect themselves. 

Shittier teams are scared of disappearing to the regionals forever. 

 

The voting system means that a fairer, more modern set up will never happen- ever as teams vote for their own reasons, most are just selfish and bordering on silly imo. 

 

Someone would need to take over and do it, but again the teams vote on that. 

Scottish football had the chance of a change due to circumstances and ****ed it. 

They'll continue to **** it until the leadership and clubs motives change. 

They won't. 

 

Absolute tinkerbells the lot of them. 

Edited October 1, 2020 by Smith's right boot

[Nookie Bear]

24 minutes ago, newbie said:

 

Probably in exactly the same way as I'd want Hearts to have the same rights as Celtic & Rangers. Those two clubs each have multiple times the number of fans and finances we have (probably roughly proportionate to the gulf between us and Brechin or Elgin), but why the **** should Hearts be treated to a lesser standard than Celtic and Rangers*? The rules have to fair and equitable for all, FFS it's not rocket science. 

Hearts (and hibs Aberdeen etc) are the same as the old firm in every respect except numbers of fans. 
 

We pay professional wages, we train professionally, we do everything the same. 
 

Other clubs are training a couple of nights a week and can’t afford the bus trip to Brora. (But I bet any tinpot northern team could find the money to travel to ibrox or Parkhead)

[mitch41]

Teams have died in the past and some will die in the future. Clubs will have to find their level whether it’s full time, part time or amateur. Perhaps more regional leagues would help, community owned clubs, wage caps and so on. I’d like all Premiership clubs to have minimum standards for grounds like a 10,000 minimum capacity, a grass pitch (no artificial grass), a fare TV coverage of live football, a fare voting system for Premiership clubs 1 vote per club, Premiership clubs must be full time, a first class commercial/ management that works for ALL of the Premiership clubs instead of the few. Now I’m sure there will be many more standards that should be implemented. Yes we need a strong Premiership and the tail wagging the dog has to be ended. Hearts should be looking to lead on these issues for their return to the SPL. We all know the fans in Scotland are dealt a bad hand and Hearts could lead the way in trying to put forward ideas for change. If the fans show they are for it the club owners will have to act.